411 MMA Rankings 06.23.09: Pound For Pound
Posted by Jonathan Solomon on 06.23.2009
411mania brings to you the very best in MMA fighters, the pound for pound best. So many quality athletes and only fifteen spots to put them in. Is Georges St. Pierre the very best? Can Fedor Emelianenko take the cake? What about rightful claims from Anderson Silva, Miguel Torres and Lyoto Machida? Who deserves to be named the best pound for pound fighter on the planet?
Thank you for tuning in to another great week of MMA rankings brought to you by 411mania. This week, the voting was as close as it has been in a long time. Less than a handful of votes separated the top three spots and only a couple of points made the difference between bronze and fourth. Of all the major American-based champions, Mike Brown and B.J. Penn do not have boatloads of support that they did in the past. I guess it can be understood in Penn's situation but why Brown barely came out ahead of Urijah Faber has me scratching my head.
An interesting note is the only fighter on the list who has not fought recently and whose next fight is a long time away, is Quinton Jackson. He last fought in March, defeating Keith Jardine. Although not official, his next fight (after The Ultimate Fighter) will be in December. Each of the fourteen other fighters below have been active in the recent past or will be in the coming weeks.
Before we get started, let us know how you feel about the top of the rankings. Do you approve? If not, don't leave without posting your own rankings in the comments section below.
Lastly, sorry Joe Rogan. Nick Diaz is nowhere to be seen this week.
Otherwise, let's get the train moving.
Here's some feedback to last week's heavyweight rankings.
From buddha, "i'd really like to see junior dos santos in that #15 spot ahead of werdum. werdum looked unimpressive in the santos fight and that stoppage in the Vera win was very questionable. santos on the other hand looked great in his past 2 fights, even though "skyscraper" struve is a step down from werdum, santos showed some great power in that fight. he's on his way to the top #10. i'd love to see a santos vs hardonk matchup." While dos Santos has looked impressive in the UFC, it appears he hasn't left much of an impression on 411 voters, he appeared on just one ballot. Santos may be fighting Justin McCully this summer so no luck on your Hardonk matchup. Nevertheless, dos Santos is one of the better prospects in the heavyweight division.
Brad says, "Perfect, not a fault in it. Though you have to wonder how bad the HW division is if Gonzaga is *still* top 10. I'm so glad Overeem is finally where he should be." Thank you, we all appreciate it. I think you're being a bit rough on Gonzaga. He's not that bad, is he?
Craig writes, "Really like how this list panned out. Basically to a tee of how it should be ranked. Some will argue Rogers should be higher, but thats just because he got a MAJOR upset, but in reality he got lucky, 14 is good for him. Of course beating Overeem would move him up....I do however feel Mir is the #2 in the world. But as said, it was razor close. If Barnett wins against Fedor... wow. But I fully expect him to lose which would bump Mir up to #2. If Lesnar beats Mir I guess he's #2, but I'd still rank Mir #3 and Barnett #4 if that were to happen." I agree on your rankings after the two big heavyweight fights. As long as they're not dominated like Penn was by GSP, the losers of the two fights should not fall down the list too much.
From Chris G, "C'mon guys. Junior Dos Antos is not even on this ranking list. That makes zero sense. There is no way you can explain that one. What's even more shocking is Werdum is on it....How is Cain Valosquez over Junior Dos Antos and Shane Carwin? Both Carwin and Dos Antos beat more impressive opponents (and Dos Antos beat his in a more dominating fashion). It doesn't make sense!...On another note, Arvloski should not even be top 15. He's in the same boat as Tim Sylvia." Here's the case for Werdum. Sure he was knocked out by dos Santos, but you can give the guy a pass for getting knocked out once. Werdum has two wins over Gonzaga, wins over Brandon Vera and Alistair Overeem and took Minotauro Nogueira and Arlovski (when he didn't suck) to a decision. dos Santos is still a young buck in terms of quality opponents. As for Carwin, he knocked Gonzaga out, but he has not had to fought more than about two minutes. He still has a lot to prove, too. Velasquez is thought to be one of the top heavyweights around with dominating wrestling ability. Sure he may not have the finishing ability but he just beat a legitimate champion contender, beating him up for most of fifteen minutes.
The G-man says, "Fedor should NOT be #1. Hello his last two "impressive" wins came from Tim "rush and I balk" Sylvia and Andre "please dont touch the porcelien chin" Arlovski...BROCK is #1. He will STEAMROLL through Fedor." No. Fedor is the best heavyweight in the world. Period. He fights who they put in front of him, fighting the best available heavyweights in the world. He just happened to make quick work of two former UFC heavyweight champions, and is about to fight another.
From BigD, "Frank Mir is #1 on my list. He is in the prime of his career, his jits is top shelf for a HW and now his striking is coming around. Until Fedor fights in the UFC I can't rank him #1. Mir will beat Lesnar in July and defend his title 2 or 3 times before he is challenged." Sorry, but I just cannot put any heavyweight above Fedor until he loses cleanly. Frank Mir is great, but the man has to prove he can be consistent for more than two or three fights. Why would Mir be #1 over Fedor? Because he beat Big Nog? Fedor beat him twice. Fedor is the complete package. Trying not to be a homer for the guy but I don't see a reason to not put him in the top spot.
Steeler Steve likes the Brett Rogers love, "Finally.....Da Grim makes a list. Say what you want about him. Questionable Ground Game etc... No one has made him show if he has more than standup skills....Wish List- Carwin vs Cain" Well, we'll see how he does against top competition when he (possibly) fights Alistair Overeem in August. Carwin/Cain would be an interesting fight since we know both men can take punches although Shane hits like a truck. But wouldn't Velasquez be able to keep the fight on the ground?
Shawno420 talks Fedor, "Until Fedor actually looses a fight(since his record should actually be 29-0 with 1 NC) he should be #1."
terry w talks domination, "brock and fedor are this planets dominant monster fighters. PERIOD. thats the fight i wanna see. mir will not be so lucky come july. neither will barnett in august."
Cyks chimes in, "I would put Carwin in Randy's spot, Randy in Cain's, and Cain where Carwin is......This past weekend, Cain stole Sherk's old playbook and showed that he can hold a guy down and punch him for 14 minutes... somehow without causing much damage. He also showed that he can't take a good hit as Kongo rocked him each time they traded.....I've mentioned elsewhere that Cain would have a great run if there were a 225 lb class, but since there isn't, I don't see him reaching the top. Lesnar and Carwin have comparable skills, but with a significant strength/ weight advantage, while Mir and Nog can each take a hit and be scary on the ground. It's a shame he didn't fight Herring, since I feel that that would have been a much better fight- and I hope that the two of them meet up in the future." Why would you swap Carwin and Couture? Who has Carwin beaten that The Natural hasn't? Velasquez has a chin and despite being rocked was able to regroup and win the fight. He needs to learn how to move his head better to avoid the monster shots from guys like Carwin and Lesnar.
NOW, back with the rankings......
Pound for Pound Rankings from Last Year (6/19/2008)
1. Anderson Silva
2. Georges St. Pierre
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. Quinton Jackson
5. BJ Penn
6. Urijah Faber
7. Miguel Torres
8. Takanori Gomi
9. Kid Yamamoto
10. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria
Randy Couture, Lyoto Machida, Chuck Liddell, Shogun Rua, Dan Henderson and Shinya Aoki were "On The Bubble."
411's MMA Ranking Rules
- If a fighter hasn't fought in a year, he can not be ranked. It's not fair to people who are fighting to not be ranked because a fighter is taking a year off. The rule also applies to specific divisions. If a fighter hasn't fought in a weight division in a year he is no longer eligible to be ranked. However, if a fighter schedules a fight he is still eligible for being ranked.
- If a fighter appears on just one single ballot, and in the top ten, five points shall be deducted to balance out between other fighters who may have been ranked lower, but appeared on more total ballots.
- If you wish to complain about a fighter's ranking in the comments section, then please include an objective reason as to why you don't like the ranking, and remember "if u rite lik thiss" then your opinion doesn't matter.
- 411's MMA Rankings are voted on by the MMA staff of 411mania. So if you are an MMA fighter and hate where you are ranked, beating just me up would be unnecessary. You would have to beat us all up, and when we are all together.....we are not dangerous at all, I won't lie to you.
411's MMA Rankings
Pound For Pound
1) Fedor Emelianenko (29-1)
Height: 6'0
Currently fighting with: Affliction
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Andrei Arlovski - Win via KO (punch) - Affliction: Day Of Reckoning - January 24, 2009
- vs. Tim Sylvia - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - Affliction: Banned - July 19, 2008
- vs. Hong Man Choi - Win via submission (arm bar) - Yarennoka - New Year's Eve 2007 - December 31, 2007
- vs. Matt Lindland - Win via submission (arm bar) - BodogFight: Clash of the Nations - April 14, 2007
- vs. Mark Hunt - Win via submission (kimura) - PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Josh Barnett - Affliction: Trilogy - August 1, 2009
Comment: Close again was the race for the top. This month, Emelianenko takes the cake with his big fight on the horizon.
2) Georges St. Pierre (18-2)
Height: 5'10
Birthday: May 19, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. BJ Penn - Win via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Jon Fitch - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek And Destroy - August 9, 2008
- vs. Matt Serra - Win via TKO (knees to body) - UFC 83: Serra vs. St. Pierre II - April 19, 2008
- vs. Matt Hughes - Win via verbal submission (arm bar) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Josh Koscheck - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 74: Respect - August 25, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Thiago Alves - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
Comment: So close, yet so far from the top spot. However, if GSP can win in three weeks at UFC 100, he may be able to regain the top spot.
3) Anderson Silva (24-4)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: April 14, 1975
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Thales Leites - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 17, 2009
- vs. Patrick Cote - Win via TKO (injured knee) - UFC 90: Silva vs. Cote - October 25, 2008
- vs. James Irvin - Win via KO (punches) - UFC: Fight Night 14 - July 19, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Rich Franklin - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 77: Hostile Territory - October 20, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Forrest Griffin - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
4) Lyoto Machida (15-0)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: May 3, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Rashad Evans - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 98: Evans vs. Machida - May 23, 2009
- vs. Thiago Silva - Win via KO (punches) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Win via submission (arm triangle choke) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Shogun Rua - UFC 104 - October 24, 2009
Comment: The new kid on the block makes a run to #4, overtaking the WEC Champion below. Machida may be the most dangerous fighter among the top names but can his new found fame keep him atop the rankings until his fight in the fall?
5) Miguel Torres (36-1)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: January 18, 1981
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Takeya Mizugaki - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 40: Torres vs. Mizugaki - April 5, 2009
- vs. Manny Tapia - Win via TKO (punches and elbows) - WEC 37: Torres vs. Tapia - December 3, 2008
- vs. Yoshiro Maeda - Win via TKO (doctor stoppage) - WEC 34: Sacramento - June 1, 2008
- vs. Chase Beebe - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 32: Albuquerque - February 13, 2008
- vs. Jeff Bedard - Win via submission (triangle choke) - WEC 30: Las Vegas - September 5, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Brian Bowles - WEC 42 - August 9, 2009
6) B.J. Penn (13-5-1)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: December 13, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Georges St. Pierre - Loss via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Sean Sherk - Win via TKO (knees and punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Joe Stevenson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 80: Rapid Fire - January 19, 2008
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - Ultimate Fighter 5 Finale - June 6, 2007
- vs. Matt Hughes - Loss via TKO (strikes) - UFC 63: Hughes vs. Penn - September 23, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Kenny Florian - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
7) Quinton Jackson (30-7)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: June 20, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Keith Jardine - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 96: Jackson vs. Jardine - March 7, 2009
- vs. Wanderlei Silva - Win via KO (punch) - UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- TUF 10 Coach - SpikeTV - September 2009
8) Rashad Evans (13-1-1)
Height: 5'11
Birthday: September 25, 1979
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - Loss via TKO (punches) - UFC 98: Evans vs. Machida - May 23, 2009
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via KO (punch) - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via decision (split) - UFC 78: Validation - November 17, 2007
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Draw - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- TUF10 Coach - SpikeTV - September 2009
9) Mike Brown (22-4)
Height: 5'6"
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber 2 - June 7, 2009
- vs. Leonard Garcia - Win by submission (arm & triangle choke) - WEC 39 - March 1, 2009
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win by TKO (punches) - WEC 36 - November 5, 2008
- vs. Jeff Curran - Win by decision (unanimous) - WEC 34 - June 1, 2008
- vs. Manny Reyes Jr. - Win by submission (rear naked choke) - Premier Xtreme Fighting - December 8, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Unknown
10) Urijah Faber (22-3)
Height: 5'6
Birthday: May 14, 1979
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Mike Brown - Loss via decision (unanimous) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber 2 - June 7, 2009
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 38: Varner vs. Cerrone - January 25, 2009
- vs. Mike Brown - Loss via TKO (punches) - WEC 36: Faber vs. Brown - November 5, 2008
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 34: Sacramento - June 1, 2008
- vs. Jeff Curran - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 31 - Faber vs. Curran - December 12, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Injured
11) Kenny Florian (11-3)
Height: 5'10
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Joe Stevenson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 91: Lesnar vs. Couture - November 15, 2008
- vs. Roger Huerta - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek and Destroy - August 9, 2008
- vs. Joe Lauzon - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC Fight Night 13 - April 2, 2008
- vs. Din Thomas - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC Fight Night 11 - September 19, 2007
- vs. Alvin Robinson - Win via submission (strikes) - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. BJ Penn - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
12) Forrest Griffin (16-5)
Height: 6'3"
Birthday: July 1, 1979
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Rashad Evans - Loss by TKO (punches) - UFC 92: The Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Mauricio Rua - Win by submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Hector Ramirez - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 72: Victory - July 16, 2007
- vs. Keith Jardine - Loss by TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz 2 - December 30, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Anderson Silva - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
13) Dan Henderson (24-7)
Height: 6'1
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Rich Franklin - Win via decision (split) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Rousimar Palhares - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
- vs. Anderson Silva - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
- vs. Wanderlei Silva - Win via KO (punches) - PRIDE 33: Second Coming - February 24, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Michael Bisping - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
14) Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (18-3)
Birthday: November 25, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 18, 2009
- vs. Mark Coleman - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Alistair Overeem - Win via KO (strikes) - PRIDE 33: Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - PRIDE Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - UFC 104 - October 24, 2009
15) Jon Fitch (18-3)
Height: 6'0
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Akihiro Gono - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Georges St. Pierre - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek and Destroy - August 9. 2008
- vs. Chris Wilson - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Diego Sanchez - Win via decision (split) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Roan Carneiro - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC Fight Night 10 - June 12, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Paulo Thiago - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
Closing Comments: Others receiving votes include Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Shinya Aoki, Thiago Alves, Randy Couture, Gegard Mousasi, Frank Mir, Kid Yamamoto and JZ Cavalcante.
Only thing I don't like is BJ being so high, considering hes 4-4 in the last so many years.
Nice to see Brown get some respect!
Posted By: Evan (Guest) on June 22, 2009 at 11:16 PM
Maybe it's the huge Mike Brown fan in me but I feel he should be #6. Can't argue with the rest though.
After UFC 101 when Silva beats Forrest he goes straight to #1 P4P doesn't he? That's half question/half statement....
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on June 22, 2009 at 11:56 PM
Nice list but there is one that baffles me- how is BJ Penn still top 6? Must be the same people that refuse to admit that Gonzaga isn't a top ten heavyweight.
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 01:30 AM
I like the list, especially because Silva is finally lower down the list. Fedor should be #1 until he actually looses a fight, or if he takes an extended break without fighting. Fedor has been undefeated for years and fights on a regular basis, there is no reason for him not to be #1. GSP has faced great competition, and has completely dominated his fights.
Posted By: Shawno420 (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 02:20 AM
So Fedor is p4p king after beating(According to the writers on this very site) 2 over rated, glass chin owners in Arlovsky and Sylvia. A side show attraction in Choi. A middle-weight in Lindland and a heavyweight in nobodys top 10 in Hunt.
Meanwhile GSP is 2nd after beating two other fighters in your own p4p rankings in dominate fashion and Anderson Silva is 3rd for being in the same boat as Fedor .. only Hendo and Ace are still highly respected, and Silva went up a weight class and won after slapping around Irving.
I can't be the only person that sees something wrong there
Posted By: K. Bett (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 03:56 AM
The only problem I have with the list is that Lyoto Machida...was born May 30 :)
Good list!
Posted By: Internet proof reader (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 04:49 AM
I was sure that Sylvia's and Arlovski's recent losses would knock Fedor down a bit. I mean Ray Mercer and Brett Rogers have done the same thing he has in the last year...
I would also make a case for getting Machida in the top 3 but I don't know who to bump down. No way it's Georgie Boy...
Posted By: Diavo (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 06:30 AM
Wow. Only 1 fighter on the list isn't under a Zuffa contract. Is that possible? Can the UFC really be holding all the good cards? No Ace in the hole for Strikeforce, DREAM, or Affliction (besides Fedor)?
I'm a UFC groupie so I love the list, but you can't help but feel sorry for the other organizations. Maybe Lesnar cracks the list when he beats Mir?
Posted By: GeeSpotter (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 07:11 AM
Solid list, despite BJ Penn's high ranking. Fedor deserves the no.1 simply because he has not lost in sich a long period of time. I'm also glad Lyoto didnt jump into the top 3 because until he defends his title e simply don't belong in the top 3.
Posted By: MikeyP (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 09:42 AM
"The G-man says, "Fedor should NOT be #1. Hello his last two "impressive" wins came from Tim "rush and I balk" Sylvia and Andre "please dont touch the porcelien chin" Arlovski...BROCK is #1. He will STEAMROLL through Fedor."
No. Fedor is the best heavyweight in the world. Period. He fights who they put in front of him, fighting the best available heavyweights in the world. He just happened to make quick work of two former UFC heavyweight champions, and is about to fight another."
Let's be real here, he fights the best available. But if the best fighters in the world are evolving and under Zuffa contract, you cannot possibly say that he is fighting sufficiently high caliber opponents. The pound for pound best fighters continue to prove they are the best by fighting the best, not simply the ones available. Period.
Posted By: Fedor Is Unproven (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 02:21 PM
GSP is a Cheater how hes still ranked so high I have now idea...I see him getting knocked out in a couple weeks.
Posted By: Hawk (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 02:32 PM
Shogun looks like a white Rampage on this picture.
Posted By: Jedd (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 02:37 PM
"Why would you swap Carwin and Couture? Who has Carwin beaten that The Natural hasn't?"
_______________________________________
It's not who he's beaten, it's that he's actually fought. Since Carwin began his career, he's fought 11 times, winning each definitively in the first round. In that same time, Randy has taken 2 beaks (each lasting over a year), and gone 3-2.
With his time off and age working against him, I simply don't see reason to keep him ranked so high unless he beats Nog.
...but then, I'm also one of the few who aren't a blind fan when it comes to Couture.
As for these rankings, another P4P and another question regarding what is Penn doing here...
Considering P4P is generally supposed to assume all fighters are within the same magical weight class and are based on skill, Penn shouldn't be here.
Keep him in the #1 spot for LW (for now), but he has shown that when the "same size" isn't 155, he has a decent shot at loosing.... with 4 of his 5 losses coming at a weight other then 155.
As for the Fedor hate, the guy constantly switches within the top 3 and will continue to do so until he either loses or retires.
Thankfully, with only 2-3 more top fights available to him out of the UFC, he'll hopefully be forced to return to negotiations with Dana soon.
That, of course, doesn't change the fact that up until (very) recently, the UFC HW division was an extremely weak joke- with all of the top HW's in the world fighting over in Japan under PRIDE... where Fedor beat them all while they were in their prime.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 03:06 PM
"Keep him in the #1 spot for LW (for now), but he has shown that when the "same size" isn't 155, he has a decent shot at loosing.... with 4 of his 5 losses coming at a weight other then 155."
4 out of his 5 losses has come outside of his natural weightclass and you ask why he should be considered for the p4p-list? That's some twisted fkin logic you got there... There are fighters that has lost more times in their normal weightclass on the list and you seem okay with them being there...
Posted By: saerbarnet (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 07:48 PM
"Keep him in the #1 spot for LW (for now), but he has shown that when the "same size" isn't 155, he has a decent shot at loosing.... with 4 of his 5 losses coming at a weight other then 155."
4 out of his 5 losses has come outside of his natural weightclass and you ask why he should be considered for the p4p-list? That's some twisted fkin logic you got there... There are fighters that has lost more times in their normal weightclass on the list and you seem okay with them being there...
Posted By: saerbarnet (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 07:48 PM
well said saerbarnet, i believe out of this whole list, BJ is the only fighter to not only venture into a weight class one higher than him. but even beyond, fighting even at 190lbs. .. how many fighters can say that they would fight 45lbs higher than their "best fitted" weight class...
THATS why hes on the P4P list.. and also the fact that he actually won a belt in another weight class too. and even managed to lose in only a decision to the recent LHW champ
Posted By: wylun (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 10:07 PM
Shouldn't Rampage be a step below Rashad and not above him?
Love Rampage but the fact is he lsot to Forrest, and then Rashad (got kinda lucky) and beat him, and only lost to a guy higher up the list.
And what the hell is wiht John Fitch's eye?
Posted By: AdamS (Guest) on June 24, 2009 at 06:42 AM
Considering P4P is generally supposed to assume all fighters are within the same magical weight class and are based on skill, Penn shouldn't be here.
Keep him in the #1 spot for LW (for now), but he has shown that when the "same size" isn't 155, he has a decent shot at loosing.... with 4 of his 5 losses coming at a weight other then 155.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on June 23, 2009 at 03:06 PM
The same magical weight class were the 155 pound Penn has the SAME CARDIO as he does at 155, the SAME SPEED and same ratio of POWER as he does at 155. When Penn bulks up to fight at 170 it's become readily apparent that he is not even close to the same fighter he is at 155. He can't carry that much weight effectively. It wears him down and costs him fights. Until he starts losing at 155 or only fights above his weight, he shouldn't be any lower than 6 or 7 on the P4P lists.
-Mike
Posted By: RanmaSolo (Registered) on June 25, 2009 at 02:09 PM
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