411 MMA Rankings 08.04.09: Pound for Pound
Posted by Jonathan Solomon on 08.04.2009
Will Fedor Emelianenko maintain his status as the pound for pound best? Between Miguel Torres, Anderson Silva and Lyoto Machida, who does not belong among the top three? Before they compete this weekend, see where B.J. Penn, Miguel Torres, Kenny Florian and Forrest Griffin rank among the world's best fighters. All that and much more as 411mania presents the premiere MMA Rankings~!
Welcome back to another star studded edition of 411mania's MMA Rankings as we count down the best pound-for-pound fighters in the world. That means a brief explanation behind the concept is warranted this week. Personally, I interpret PFP as subtracting size and power from the equation. That means Brock Lesnar will not warrant as many votes as he did last week in the heavyweight rankings. This means that smaller fighters such as Miguel Torres and Mike Brown will receive as much, if not more votes than light heavyweights or heavyweights. Generally this concept is about technique and a more complete skill level than someone who may be one dimensional and still successful.
Last month, it was Fedor Emelianenko who clocked in as the best PFP fighter in the world, much to Dana White's dismay. The voting has always been close in recent months pitting Fedor against Georges St. Pierre and even Anderson Silva at times. Since May, even Lyoto Machida has laid claim to making either Fedor or GSP breathe heavily on this list.
This weekend is a special one because it's unusual that so many top pound-for-pound fighters compete on the same shows. This weekend, one-third of the top fifteen (that means five kiddies, {math is cool!}) will be in action. In a light heavyweight bout, Anderson Silva will fight Forrest Griffin and B.J. Penn will put his lightweight belt on the line against Kenny Florian. To conclude the weekend, Miguel Torres will defend his bantamweight championship against Brian Bowles. Needless to say, next month, this PFP list may look a bit different. Penn may fall out of the top ten and hell, Griffin may find himself that high. A loss, even against a fellow top fighter, would almost certainly derail any hope of Anderson Silva's to best GSP or Fedor here. A lot is riding on these fights.
Here's some feedback to last week's controversial heavyweight rankings.
From Jeremy S, "Please let Fedor come to the UFC and fight some of their guys so I can quit seeing him at the top of lists like these. I mean look at his list for the last four years...five whole fights in four years against crappy opponents? That's the best of the MMA heavyweights? And talk of him going to Japan where they handpick who will lose to you even more...just sad and frankly should pull him off a list like this totally if he won't come and fight the people on this list....And I saw the note on why Barnett was still on there, but really after days of this news, you guys should have been able to make some quick changes to the article. Same thing with Allistar...I see talk of some saying his title should be stripped, he should be much lower b/c of his drama as well....I just hope that the next season of TUF injects some much needed new blood into the heavyweight division." So according to you, Fedor is not the best heavyweight fighter? In what world is Fedor not fighting people on this list? He fought Tim Sylvia when he was considered a top 10-15 heavyweight, and destroyed him. When he fought Arlovski, Andrei was considered a top 10 heavyweight, too. It's Fedor's fault Barnett failed a drug test and could not fight him this past weekend? You may not like Fedor for whatever reason, but don't let your hate blind you to Fedor's undeniable success.
From MKick, "I've got to say ... huh? Maybe it's just the flaw of having multiple people voting on rankings, but there is no way Nog should be ahead of Mir when his last fight was a loss to him." Some people just do not think of Mir as an elite heavyweight after his latest defeat. Plus, despite the fact he lost, many point to his health issues leading into the fight as a major reason why he lost. Is that right, perhaps not.
From iceman22, "so wait..Barnett test positive for steroids, ruins an org and is still number 2? Oh by the way who has he beaten in his last 5 fights?...Nog is Number 4, and 1 spot a head of Mir, after Mir destroyed Nog.Oh by the way Mir has a win over the current UFC champ, and was an Interm champ....AA is Number 10 after coming off Back to back first round KO's...Gabe is number 11 after beating 2 no names, and losing 3 of his last 5. Including a loss to Werdum who is ranked 15th, But Dos santos isnt ranked after Werdum got KTFO by him?...And Rodgers gets a top 15 spot for smashing the glass jaw of AA?...Worst Rankings ever." Please rank them so I can see the best rankings ever. Understand the words before the rankings, Barnett's failed test had no impact on the rankings due to timing (if they would have had any, who knows). Arlovski has been knocked out twice but is he done? I find that hard to believe.
From cyks, "Recent news completely messes with these rankings...Carwin should be above Cain. Shane destroyed the higher ranked Gonzaga while Cain couldn't finish Cheick. Sadly, even with the recent news, you can't really justify moving everyone around.... for as much as he fucked himself, Affliction, and the other fighters, Josh could still beat most anyone on this list. Although, if neither of them are scheduled to fight someone of note relatively soon, a strong case could be made to drop BOTH Josh and Fedor down a few notches.... as the internet collapses for an ex-WWE guy gets ranked above Fedor. BOOM goes the internetz~!
Flitch defends Fedor, "Fedor has beat EVERYBODY he has faced, save a freak stoppage due to a cut. Get over the fact that he hasn't beat the top names over the last few years. He DEMOLISHED Sylvia, who was top 10 at the time, and a former UFC CHAMPION."
From Brad, "Barnett above Lesnar, silly 411. But hey, no one gives a crap about any HW after 7."
From dale. "how the f*ck is Barnett ranked as the #2 HW last year? or the year before?" Some people think Barnett is the best heavyweight not named Fedor. That's how. :)
Jeremy S can't defend himself, "Silvia sucked as a UFC champ, the HW div was very weak when he was champ (it is still in need of growth today). Arlofski and Silvia have proved they aren't big time...personally I don't think Silvia ever was. And I do think Brock needs to keep beating fighters to improve his rep; but at least he is fighting all comers." Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arlovski were considered top heavyweights at the times they fought Fedor. You cannot rewrite history to suit your attempts at arguments. Aren't "big time"...what does that even mean?
FUDGE asks, "Why is Arlovski ahead of Rogers?" While Rogers knocked Arlovski out, he was previously unranked while Arlovski was amongst the top ten. After their fight, Arlovski dropped some spots and Rogers was finally ranked.
MJH says, "UFC Heavys should go Lesnar, Mir or Couture, and then Big Nog. Can't rank Big Nog over Mir. I think we are going to find out very shortly that there is zero shame in losing to Lesnar (unless he embarrasses you afterwards). Rest of the list looks good. Rogers should be ahead of Arlovski."
Nax argues, "I understand the Fedor love but I don't agree with ranking him no 1 at this point. When he was undisputed world no 1 he was also fighting in the richest talent pool in the heavyweight MMA world. At that point the UFC heavyweight division was relatively week and noone really saw Sylvia or Arlovski as a geuine threat to Fedor (which proved subsequently correct). However, now that you have Lesnar, Big Nog, Mir, Couture and others all in the UFC then Fedor's position as no 1 must come into question." That's one of the better arguments against Fedor as the top heavyweight. However, as the saying goes, to be the man, you have to beat the man. Fedor has not been beaten.
Ryan says, "Look, I'm as much of a UFC supporter as the next guy, but Fedor's record speaks for itself: he hasn't lost in over *TWENTY FIVE* fights - amongst which have been 4 former UFC World Heavyweight Champions (Coleman twice, Randleman, Sylvia and Arlovski) and an interim champ (Nog twice + a no contest).
I will say that the way he whipped Mir's ass, Lesnar should have been #2 even before The Roid Monkey failed his test again. Lesnar was #2 on some ballots, but not enough to get the spot on the final list.
Romano can't read, "i've always had issue for how highly ranked barnett was, but to have him ranked at all, let alone at number two after he has been popped for the third fcking time is insulting.....morons, you're all morons."
Gorsty says, "I agree with Jeremey S. Fedor has won 5 fights in 4 years, and not against top class opposition either, Arlovski during his time at the top of the UFC, maybe would have been a credible win, but then this is the same guy who got killed by Brett Rogers (who?). Big Timmy? Nah, since the Randy fight, he's not even worthy of being in the top 10." Well, sure, you can argue about Fedor's competition since the death of PRIDE. But it remains, what has he done to not warrant a top ranking? Has he looked horrible? Sure he did not look all that great early in the Arlovski fight, but how did it end?
NOW, back with the rankings......
Pound for Pound Rankings from Last Year (8/7/2008)
1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. BJ Penn
5. Urijah Faber
6. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueria
7. Miguel Torres
8. Lyoto Machida
9. Shogun Rua
10. Forrest Griffin
Takanori Gomi, Quinton Jackson, Kid Yamamoto and Dan Henderson were "On The Bubble."
411's MMA Ranking Rules
- If a fighter hasn't fought in a year, he can not be ranked. It's not fair to people who are fighting to not be ranked because a fighter is taking a year off. The rule also applies to specific divisions. If a fighter hasn't fought in a weight division in a year he is no longer eligible to be ranked. However, if a fighter schedules a fight he is still eligible for being ranked.
- If a fighter appears on just one single ballot, and in the top ten, five points shall be deducted to balance out between other fighters who may have been ranked lower, but appeared on more total ballots.
- If you wish to complain about a fighter's ranking in the comments section, then please include an objective reason as to why you don't like the ranking, and remember "if u rite lik thiss" then your opinion doesn't matter.
- 411's MMA Rankings are voted on by the MMA staff of 411mania. So if you are an MMA fighter and hate where you are ranked, beating just me up would be unnecessary. You would have to beat us all up, and when we are all together.....we are not dangerous at all, I won't lie to you.
* denotes a statistical tie
411's MMA Rankings
Pound For Pound
1) Georges St. Pierre (19-2)
Height: 5'10
Birthday: May 19, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Thiago Alves - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
- vs. BJ Penn - Win via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Jon Fitch - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek And Destroy - August 9, 2008
- vs. Matt Serra - Win via TKO (knees to body) - UFC 83: Serra vs. St. Pierre II - April 19, 2008
- vs. Matt Hughes - Win via verbal submission (arm bar) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Unknown
Comment: GSP is KING again after his dominant victory over Thiago Alves over three weeks ago. GSP looks unstoppable and it's tough to argue against him being the top fighter on earth.
2) Fedor Emelianenko (29-1)
Height: 6'0
Currently fighting with: M-1 Global
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Andrei Arlovski - Win via KO (punch) - Affliction: Day Of Reckoning - January 24, 2009
- vs. Tim Sylvia - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - Affliction: Banned - July 19, 2008
- vs. Hong Man Choi - Win via submission (arm bar) - Yarennoka - New Year's Eve 2007 - December 31, 2007
- vs. Matt Lindland - Win via submission (arm bar) - BodogFight: Clash of the Nations - April 14, 2007
- vs. Mark Hunt - Win via submission (kimura) - PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Unknown
Comment: He takes a dip in the aftermath of UFC 100. Note that most, if not all, of the voting for these rankings were conducted before negotiations between the UFC and Fedor's group fell apart.
3) Lyoto Machida (15-0)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: May 3, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Rashad Evans - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 98: Evans vs. Machida - May 23, 2009
- vs. Thiago Silva - Win via KO (punches) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Win via submission (arm triangle choke) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Shogun Rua - UFC 104 - October 24, 2009
4*) Anderson Silva (24-4)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: April 14, 1975
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Thales Leites - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 17, 2009
- vs. Patrick Cote - Win via TKO (injured knee) - UFC 90: Silva vs. Cote - October 25, 2008
- vs. James Irvin - Win via KO (punches) - UFC: Fight Night 14 - July 19, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Rich Franklin - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 77: Hostile Territory - October 20, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Forrest Griffin - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
4*) Miguel Torres (36-1)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: January 18, 1981
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Takeya Mizugaki - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 40: Torres vs. Mizugaki - April 5, 2009
- vs. Manny Tapia - Win via TKO (punches and elbows) - WEC 37: Torres vs. Tapia - December 3, 2008
- vs. Yoshiro Maeda - Win via TKO (doctor stoppage) - WEC 34: Sacramento - June 1, 2008
- vs. Chase Beebe - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 32: Albuquerque - February 13, 2008
- vs. Jeff Bedard - Win via submission (triangle choke) - WEC 30: Las Vegas - September 5, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Brian Bowles - WEC 42 - August 9, 2009
Comment: You must watch any Miguel Torres fight because you never know what you will see. He is that awesome.
6) B.J. Penn (13-5-1)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: December 13, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Georges St. Pierre - Loss via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Sean Sherk - Win via TKO (knees and punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Joe Stevenson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 80: Rapid Fire - January 19, 2008
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - Ultimate Fighter 5 Finale - June 6, 2007
- vs. Matt Hughes - Loss via TKO (strikes) - UFC 63: Hughes vs. Penn - September 23, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Kenny Florian - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
7) Mike Brown (22-4)
Height: 5'6"
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber 2 - June 7, 2009
- vs. Leonard Garcia - Win by submission (arm & triangle choke) - WEC 39 - March 1, 2009
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win by TKO (punches) - WEC 36 - November 5, 2008
- vs. Jeff Curran - Win by decision (unanimous) - WEC 34 - June 1, 2008
- vs. Manny Reyes Jr. - Win by submission (rear naked choke) - Premier Xtreme Fighting - December 8, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Jose Aldo - WEC 44 or 45 - Fall 2009
8) Quinton Jackson (30-7)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: June 20, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Keith Jardine - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 96: Jackson vs. Jardine - March 7, 2009
- vs. Wanderlei Silva - Win via KO (punch) - UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- TUF 10 Coach - SpikeTV - September 2009
9) Urijah Faber (22-3)
Height: 5'6
Birthday: May 14, 1979
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Mike Brown - Loss via decision (unanimous) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber 2 - June 7, 2009
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 38: Varner vs. Cerrone - January 25, 2009
- vs. Mike Brown - Loss via TKO (punches) - WEC 36: Faber vs. Brown - November 5, 2008
- vs. Jens Pulver - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 34: Sacramento - June 1, 2008
- vs. Jeff Curran - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 31 - Faber vs. Curran - December 12, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Injured
10) Rashad Evans (13-1-1)
Height: 5'11
Birthday: September 25, 1979
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - Loss via TKO (punches) - UFC 98: Evans vs. Machida - May 23, 2009
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via KO (punch) - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via decision (split) - UFC 78: Validation - November 17, 2007
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Draw - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- TUF10 Coach - SpikeTV - September 2009
11) Jon Fitch (19-3)
Height: 6'0
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Paulo Thiago - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
- vs. Akihiro Gono - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Georges St. Pierre - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek and Destroy - August 9. 2008
- vs. Chris Wilson - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Diego Sanchez - Win via decision (split) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently Unknown
12) Kenny Florian (11-3)
Height: 5'10
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Joe Stevenson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 91: Lesnar vs. Couture - November 15, 2008
- vs. Roger Huerta - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek and Destroy - August 9, 2008
- vs. Joe Lauzon - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC Fight Night 13 - April 2, 2008
- vs. Din Thomas - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC Fight Night 11 - September 19, 2007
- vs. Alvin Robinson - Win via submission (strikes) - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. BJ Penn - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
Comment: It's do or die time for the student.
13) Dan Henderson (25-7)
Height: 6'1
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via KTFO (punch of doom) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
- vs. Rich Franklin - Win via decision (split) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Rousimar Palhares - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
- vs. Anderson Silva - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Anderson Silva - UFC - Late 2009 (RUMOR)
14) Forrest Griffin (16-5)
Height: 6'3"
Birthday: July 1, 1979
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Rashad Evans - Loss by TKO (punches) - UFC 92: The Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Mauricio Rua - Win by submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Hector Ramirez - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 72: Victory - July 16, 2007
- vs. Keith Jardine - Loss by TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz 2 - December 30, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Anderson Silva - UFC 101 - August 8, 2009
15) Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (18-3)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: November 25, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 18, 2009
- vs. Mark Coleman - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Alistair Overeem - Win via KO (strikes) - PRIDE 33: Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - PRIDE Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - UFC 104 - October 24, 2009
Closing Comments: Others receiving votes include Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Shinya Aoki, JZ Cavalcante and Thiago Alves.
shogun is a joke!!! doesn't deserve to be ranked at all!!!!
Posted By: hater (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 12:39 AM
BULLL! How on earth can Machida be ranked ahead of Anderson Silva? Is that a joke? Sure he seems amazing right now but the opponents he has beaten doesn't compare yet to the list of elite fighters Anderson has made look like rookies to the game
Posted By: CK (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 12:41 AM
So Anderson Silva can toy with his opposition and still dominate them, beat elite fighters in under 2 rounds and win a record 9 UFC fights in a row yet he drops off the top of this list??? If it was most entertaining fighters i would understand but this is ridiculous! World class athletes are actually scared to fight Silva!
Posted By: Stevie (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 01:50 AM
i cant wait to see fedor fall on these rankings..
Posted By: wylun (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 01:57 AM
wow, my quote got pulled for the article....speaking of which, yes, I don't think Fedor is THAT great. Although I've always said I think he is a good fighter. But when you fight guys after their prime or guys that don't even rank, then you can't call yourself the best P4P. I know Fedor is like the "true" MMA fans champion b/c he isn't mainstream to casual fans, but that's not good enough for me. And half the shit that went on back in pride was questionable, so I wouldn't even hang Fedor's hat on that either.
If you want to call someone the best, they have to be fighting the best and he isn't. And he hasn't for half a decade now.
Anyways...I'm glad to see GSP at the top. Even though he isn't my fav fighter, he has proven himself. And I would still expect Fedor on this list, but would rather see:
GSP, Silva, Fedor, Machida (I think machida needs to defend his belt as a champ for a bit before we get carried away; but he is an awesome fighter). I don't know that I would have ranked Mike Brown so high, I was very unimpressed he was unable to finished Urijah after both his hands were unable to be used for several rounds. But choices get slim once you get out of five or so fighters.
Posted By: Jeremy S (Registered) on August 04, 2009 at 01:57 AM
Generally, the assumed rules of P4P mean all fighters would magically be roughly the same size, in the same weight class, and their status would be based on their skill and attributes alone.
With that said- I think it's only fair to say that Brock would somehow come in 50 lbs heavier, much stronger, and faster then almost anyone else.
I'm not saying he should be #1, or even top 5... but his complete destruction of Mir should have earned him a spot in the top 10.
While his stand-up may not be the crispest, the one punch he threw in the Herring fight showed that they're effective, he easily has some of the best take downs and take down defenses, and he was able to completely control Frank's hips, head, and BOTH of his arms - while still having an arm free to hamburger meat Mir's face.
It's not like Brock only has his size to rely on... if that were the case, Sapp, Choi, and Esch would have had far better careers.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 02:01 AM
And just noticed another one of my comments was quoted above too.
Kinda f-d up the way you guys structure that stuff in a one sided attack built into the article. But hopefully people read the comments too. And hell if I can't defend myself. I'm am far from alone in the idea that Fedor has fought weak opponents the last several years, not only fans but several MMA sites have stated the same thing.
In addition: Silvia washed out of UFC, so he obviously wasn't that good and most fans considered him a weak champ when he was there. No history needs rewriting. The dude sucks, you act like he was awesome until a choke out from Fedor just changed his life and put him on the road to suck town. And I've recognized Arlovski was a top HW, I just don't think he should be (see, I can argue about Fedor's ranking and Arlovski's without changing history) But even so, at the time I was pointing out that Brock had beaten higher ranked fighters than Fedor had in the last few years, even with the rankings I do or don't agree with.
The guy had a chance to prove he was the best P4P and get more press than he ever could everywhere else and he passed.
Posted By: Jeremy S (Registered) on August 04, 2009 at 02:19 AM
this rankings is a joke...anderson sivla plays with his opposition in his last 2 fights while fedor fights 5 times in the last 4 years yet is still top 3?? Brock, frank mir
Posted By: bullfrog24 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 03:08 AM
After destructions of Herring, Couture and Mir is Brock Lesnar really not worthy of your top 15??? He's the best big man ever in MMA, makes a guy like Tim Sylvia look second rate in comparison. A little objectivity please...
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 03:32 AM
Rankings matter to Jeremy !
Posted By: Guest#3543 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 03:43 AM
Absolute joke, Silva is the P4P king. GSP may dominate his competition but Silva makes them look like retards to be honest. Also screw Fedor, its hard to rate someone when it really does appear he is avoiding the top promotion.
The lack of Silva love is just sad. The man hasn't lost in 9 UFC fights! He's beaten competition at a higher weight class! He made two contenders look like hacks!
Boo-urns 411mania, you failed miserably this time.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 05:18 AM
it's tough to argue against GSP being the top fighter on earth....
Hard to argue?!?!?! Oh I can fucking argue: TWO WORDS!
Matt Serra
Posted By: hhhh (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 06:14 AM
Personally, I'd of had Machida at number one. He's not my favourite, but he's unbeaten and arguably the most unstoppable person right now. The guy damn well destroyed Rashad Evans, something nobody had ever done. He's got styles like no other and we still haven't even seen him at his complete best. The only person I feel worthy enough of beating him to the top spot is Anderson Silva, for the exact same reasons as Machida.
Fedor is ranked way too high as usual. When he steps up and takes on the best, then I'll start taking him seriously. Until then, he should NEVER be second on this list, ahead of guys who have fought ten times stronger competetion and looked even more dominating (Machida for one).
Lesnar should also make the list, probably near the bottom. He defeated Randy and let's be honest, he made Mir look almost laughable. He's the biggest name in MMA right now and although I know he's not the ultimate best, he's looking nearly unstoppable right now.
I'd also probably throw Diego Sanchez in around 15th too, certainly deserving.
Posted By: SummerTwilight (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 07:40 AM
Rather than nitpick choices on the list i just want to agree with the Miguel Torres love, I cannot wait for this next WEC card. If you aren't watching you are missing out on amazing fights. I would love to see if he could beef up and come to the UFC at 155 but I am very happy to watch him on free TV
Posted By: mstrong73 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 08:04 AM
Good list,agree with everything. I would put Shogun above Griffin,but thats only a nitpick. Maybe Torres higher too,if everybody would be the same size,he would wreck havoc,he might be the most well rounded fighter we have ever seen not named GSP.
And to cyks: Brock DOES NOT deserve a top15 ranking p4p. He is a one-dimensional GnP guy with insane size. But size doesnt count here. So why would Brock be higher than for example Gray Maynard or Yushin Okami?
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 08:52 AM
Okay, I'm sick of all the Fedor nonsense - in the heavyweight rankings, fine, but this is P4P, and I have no problem with his inclusion on this list. That said, I can't understand how Miguel Torres is tied for 4th. He's got a better record than Fedor, he's shown nothing but dominance since winning the WEC title (and, actually, long before that), and he's got an amazing combination of strength, speed, power, and skill that would translate well into the theoretical realms of these rankings. I realize that GSP, Fedor, and Anderson Silva are the "trendy" picks for these rankings, but isn't it time you guys actually looked at things from a fresh perspective? (And no, bringing the new trendy pick of Machida into the mix doesn't count.)
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 08:59 AM
Machida and Spider should be ahead of Fedor... not only have they fought better competition, they did not duck the top competition in the world to sign with a weaker company to keep their (and M-1 Global's) legacy intact.
Posted By: Grid (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 09:13 AM
On this list, a guy that has never lost a match, much less a round, should be ranked third? o__O I guess the writers must be from Bizarro World or something. Next time, I would suggest not enjoying "chemical refreshments" prior to making your contribution.
Posted By: David (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 10:01 AM
Hey "guest" (do I know u?...maybe...) anyways...They matter to me in the sense that I enjoy the sport and enjoy these discussions. They seem to matter to everyone leaving comments too and people writing and reading articles like this on several sites.
And beating hacks does not make you the best P4P in the world. And no matter what the dip writing the article says...most of the mma world new Silvia was no longer considered a threat and at the time Arlovski might have seemed some sort of threat to guys that make lists like this...but we are finding out he has a glass jaw.
Also I agree with some of the other commenters about the order: Silva should be 1, GSP 2, Torres 3, Machida 4, then maybe Fedor. Too bad Fedor won't be fighting any top fighters anytime soon. Oh wait, he'll probably fight someone in the top ten, that is in the top ten b/c they don't fight anyone else in the top ten and have a good looking record.
Posted By: Jeremy S (Registered) on August 04, 2009 at 10:41 AM
GSP at 1 is a great choice. he is just dominating right now. Unbeatable.
I never thought it would get to this, but F Fedor. He doesn't have his best interest or the fan's best interest in mind - all he cares about is his stupid M1 manager. Dude's on a guaranteed 5 year bender without beating a top contendor at his peak. He's dead to me.
I can't believe how people are turning on Silva. Isn't he on a UFC record winning streak? He didn't slip up against Matt Serra. on-exciting wins are still wins.
Still don't quite get the BJ Penn love. Hasn't he lose every welterweight fight the past 5 years. Isn't that the definition of P4P?
Love the ranking of Torres, Brown and Faber. 3 beats.
I agree that Brock does not belong on this list yet. He is bigger and stronger than everyone else - take away the bigger (the point of a P4P ranking) and he may still be stronger - but I don't think it equates to dimination a la GSP. Does a 265 lb Lesnar out wrestle a 265 lb GSP? A 265 pound Guida even? I'm not sure - yet.
Posted By: MJH (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 11:08 AM
cut these guys out right off the bat..
Griffin
Rampage (love the guy but...)
Shogun
Fitch
Rashad
Florian
They are all good, but P4P..nah
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via KTFO (punch of doom) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
Fucking hilarious!! Punch of Doom!
Next to Rampage giving Wanderlei the "You Sank My Battleship" Right hook that was the best punch i've seen in a minute!
Posted By: MadLiberator (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 11:19 AM
I like GSP but how can he be #1 he hasn't had more finishes then decision for quite some time. You have to go back a few years for his number of finishes to be more then decisions. He is dominate but not as dominate as the P4P best should be. For top spot I'd say fedor cause his last 2 fights have been dominate finishes while Silva's have not, Machida nees afew more finishes to help him move up to top spot.
Posted By: me3 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 11:30 AM
Me3 it's hard to finish when you only face the absolute best. That's why GSP is #1 right now. He didn't fight the hong man chois and Thales Leites's of the world in the last 2years, he fought the very very best in every single fight.
Posted By: response (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 11:56 AM
"...most of the mma world new Silvia was no longer considered a threat and at the time Arlovski might have seemed some sort of threat to guys that make lists like this...but we are finding out he has a glass jaw."
Call me crazy, but I agree with this guy. Really, who have Arvlosky and TIm beat besides themselves? Didn't Tim test positive for roids after his first title win? Who has he beat since? A couple of has beens and a guy that can't decide whether he's a heavy or light heavy? Didn't he lose to a guy Fedor already beat twice prior to fighting Fedor. Not even by decision, but got choked out?
I admit that last year I said TIm had a better chance than most, but that was based on well, there not really being anyone other than Arvlosky and Barnett being available.
People keep bringing up his 4 victories over former champs. Two guys were smaller, one dimensional wrestlers and 2 guys were, regardless of where some people decide they should have been ranked, weren't very good champions. Were any of these guys good champions? And in Coleman's case, the dude was champ back in the day when basically all you had to do was show up uninjured and know how to wrestle. Not to mention he didn't fight Fedor until 6 or years after he lost the belt.
Nothing I say can take a win away from Fedor and that's not my point. Records are nice to point to and say "see, look at that. He's never lost" Well neither has Floyd Mayweather and there's always questions about him ducking opponents because he didn't think it would make him money. Which, hell I agree with. In a physical job like MMA/Boxing, you should get as much money as you can. But it doesn't stop history from saying "would he be undefeated if he fought this guy in his prime? Would he be undefeated if he fought this guy instead of the mandatory challenger hand picked by his promoters?"
That's how I feel about Fedor sometimes. Let him fight one of the up and comers (Brock, Carwin, etc.) let me see Fedor/Couture before the guy turns 50. Hell, I want to see how Fedor does against a motivated Frank Mir. That's what I as a fan want to see. I want him to go against guys who are doing stuff now. Not people dropped to the undercard before they left UFC or left UFC after a loss, or were in UFC in 96.
Posted By: pd (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 11:59 AM
The top 4 are pretty interchangeable, though I'd have Machida at #4 due to the other's longevity. Wait for a title defense before putting him over Silva at least.
Hendo should be higher, just below Brown I reckon, and only because he doesn't hold a belt.
Lesnar is a prick, but really should be on there, probably in place of Griffin. I'd throw Hansen on there somewhere as well, personally.
Posted By: Vordeo (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 12:26 PM
Good to see GSP first, he is a better MMA figher than the overated Fedor and the extremly overated A Silva. Silva however could be higher on the list but he is certainly not the best.
GSP=Most Complete fighter in the world today. Now people can only rely on a fluke loss to Matt Serra to say otherwise.
Posted By: GSPfan (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 12:36 PM
GSP's victory was "dominant" and looks "unstoppable." What about Anderson Silva? His last two opponents came nowhere close to putting him any sort of danger. Now, for the SECOND time, he will move up in weight just to challenge himself. He is light years above GSP on the this list. GSP fought a lightweight, and if he decides to move up, there is no doubt in my mind what will happen. Silva is above him for the simple fact that he dominates his weight class WITH EASE and moves to a different weight class just to give him self a challenge. How is GSP above Silva? Silva's last performance was 'lackluster' but GSP's last performance wasn't? Maybe that's a testament to Thiago Alves heart over Thales Leites-
Posted By: Kevin (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 01:34 PM
"I agree that Brock does not belong on this list yet. He is bigger and stronger than everyone else - take away the bigger (the point of a P4P ranking) and he may still be stronger - but I don't think it equates to dimination a la GSP. Does a 265 lb Lesnar out wrestle a 265 lb GSP? A 265 pound Guida even? I'm not sure - yet.
" - mjh
------
I do think Brock could outwrestle a GSP or Guida at his weight. He had like a 119-6 NCAA wrestling record. That doesn't make him the best P4P and I too would like to see him get some more wins before making it onto a list like this. But wanted to point out the guy is an extremely gifted wrestler, and he is a lot more than just a big strong guy.
Personally I think a best P4P list should only consist of maybe five fighters, maybe ten. But it should be a shorter list than just a list of top weightclass fighters.
Posted By: Jeremy S (Registered) on August 04, 2009 at 02:42 PM
"cut these guys out right off the bat..
Griffin
Rampage (love the guy but...)
Shogun
Fitch
Rashad
Florian"
who would you include if not them?
Posted By: Guest#0785 (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 03:12 PM
Fedor's not number one, so I've got less to complain about. I don't think Machida should be above Silva, simply based on competition. He's beat Rashad and who? A very overweight BJ Penn years ago and Rich Franklin also several years ago.
The only real knock on Silva is that he doesn't kill bitches dead when knows they aren't near his level and UFC is more concerned with a stand up war than #1 contender vs champion match up i.e. Okami/Maia vs Silva.
Posted By: K. Bett (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 07:14 PM
Good to see Silva finally getting the respect he deserves..... less then he's always gotten. You guys want to say how Fedor hasn't faced anyone good lately, Silva hasn't beat anyone that was a legit challenger since Dan Henderson. You are a bunch of hypocrites. Fedor beats 2 former UFC champions(whether they are good or not, they are former champs. And if they are that bad, maybe that shows you that the UFC HW division isn't as good as you think) which means shit, but Silva stood there and was scared to go to the ground with Leites and that makes him the best P4P fighter..... Get a fucking clue. Get off Dana's dick, the UFC HW division was a joke until recently, all the good HWs were in Pride getting destroyed by Fedor. I hope that Fedor never joins the UFC so all you fanboys can be pissed for the rest of your life that the best MMA fighter of all time never stepped foot in your beloved UFC.
If anyone should be the top P4P fighter it should be GSP, so I'm glad it is. Also Torres should be #3.
Posted By: Shawno420 (Guest) on August 05, 2009 at 02:31 AM
Good to see GSP first, he is a better MMA figher than the overated Fedor and the extremly overated A Silva. Silva however could be higher on the list but he is certainly not the best.
GSP=Most Complete fighter in the world today. Now people can only rely on a fluke loss to Matt Serra to say otherwise.
Posted By: GSPfan (Guest) on August 04, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Really? The best fighter in teh world today by these rankings has been taken to a decision 3 times by mid-upper tier welterweights (Alves, Fitch, Kosacheck) because he couldn't finish them and he is #1? So I guess since Silva only has gone to a decision 1 time in 5 fights that drops him to 4th? Really? Must be a bunch of homos ranking this as it is obvious the fag love for GSP is rampant. You call his performance over Alves dominating yet he can't finish it? Puh-leez
Posted By: Guest#7295 (Guest) on August 05, 2009 at 03:41 PM
Copyright � 2011 411mania.com, LLC. All rights reserved.
Click here for our privacy policy. Please help us serve you better, fill out our survey.
Use of this site signifies your agreement to our terms of use.
