411 MMA Fact or Fiction 9.23.09: TUF10, Strikeforce on CBS,
Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 09.23.2009
Is Mirko "Cro Cop" the most disappointing UFC acquisition ever? Will Team Rashad win this season of The Ultimate Fighter? What was the best fight of this past week? 411 MMA writers Scott Kuczkowski and Jeremy Lambert debate those topics and more in this weeks editions of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction.
It was a big week in MMA as UFC ran two shows and had the premiere of The Ultimate Fighter 10 plus Strikeforce announced that they're bringing MMA back to CBS.
To debate those topics and more we have the man who gives the Good, Bad, and Ugly of the world of MMA, please welcome, Scott Kuczkowski. His opponent is yours truly, THE Cardio Freak, Jeremy Lambert.
In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!
1. Vitor Belfort would be the toughest Middleweight opponent for Anderson Silva right now.
Scott Kuczkowshi:FICTION. Strikers have never given Anderson Silva a lot of trouble; it is typically wrestlers (such as Dan Henderson) that are able to pose a threat to him. While I'm sure people will point out that Vitor isn't the typical striker, the truth is that neither is Anderson Silva. While I thought Vitor looked good against Franklin, I didn't see anything that caused me to believe he would have a shot against Anderson Silva. If I had to pick the toughest test for Anderson Silva at 185 my money would still be on Dan Henderson. I might even pick Marquardt ahead of Belfort.
Jeremy Lambert:FICTION. I have to agree with the Henderson pick. The problem with Henderson is that he tends to strike more than wrestle but maybe he'll realize that's a stupid gameplan the second time around against Silva. Belfort explosiveness will give anyone trouble but as good as his striking is, would anyone favor another striker against Silva?
SCORE:1 for 1.
2. Paul Daley turned in the most impressive performance at UFC 103.
Scott Kuczkowshi:FACT. I say fact only because Daley was such an underdog coming from the preliminary card and stepping in for the injured Mike Swick. I think he really made the most of the opportunity. I figured Kampmann would work to get things to the ground, but Daley was too much for him on the feet and Kampmann was on Queer Street before he knew what was happening. Truth be told there were a number of impressive performances at UFC 103 (Junior Dos Dantos answered a lot of questions with his win) but I think Daley made the biggest statement in his division.
Jeremy Lambert:FICTION. While Daley was super impressive, I'm going to give the honor to Junior dos Santos. Say what you will about Mirko "Cro Cop" but coming into the fight he was still thought to be a dangerous striker who was refocused on his career. Junior dos Santos not only beat him, he made him quit. There was questions about dos Santos if the fight made it out of the first two minutes and he easily answered that question. Not only that but he seemed to get stronger as the fight went on.
SCORE:1 for 2.
3. Team Rashad will win this season of The Ultimate Fighter.
Scott Kuczkowshi:FACT. This was hard to pick since we've only seen one episode, but Rampage didn't seem like he picked quality fighters nor does he seem like a very skilled coach when his guys are on their backs getting smashed against the cage. Plus Rampage has Tiki as an assistant, who isn't exactly much to write home about when Rashad has Greg Jackson helping him. I'd like to see this season be somewhat competitive, but I walked away from the first episode wondering if Rampage would even win one fight.
Jeremy Lambert:FACT. I've been saying this since the cast was revealed so I have to stand by it: Roy Nelson will win TUF 10. Given that Nelson is on Team Rashad, I have to say that Team Rashad will win this season. If we're going by overall wins, I'll still go with Team Rashad because Quinton just doesn't seem like he cares about coaching.
SCORE:2 for 3.
Video Intermission
4. Mirko "Cro Cop" has been the most disappointing UFC acquisition of all-time.
Jeremy Lambert:FACT. I honestly can't think of anyone who comes close to "Cro Cop". Sure there's Sokoudjou but he lost to Machida, the current Champion, and Luiz Cane, who could be a contender in the division soon. Plus Sokoudjou was rather unproven and was essentially the PRIDE Houston Alexander before coming to UFC. Mirko "Cro Cop" entered the UFC after the biggest accomplishment of his career, he was easily a Top 5 Heavyweight in the world, and they were trying to fast track him to a title shot. He beat Eddie Sanchez and Mostapha Al-Turk while losing to Gabriel Gonzaga and Cheick Kongo, neither of who have beaten anyone of note since Mirko and he lost to Junior dos Santos, who looks to be a stud but could easily falter in the division. Mirko was by far the most hyped UFC acquisition and he completely flopped.
Scott Kuczkowski:FACT. We can all chalk it up to his age or the wear and tear of previous battles, but Mirko is easily the most disappointing UFC acquisition of all time. Not only did he fail to ever climb his way into title contention, but he managed to only win a single bout in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez. Not only did the fans miss out on Mirko competing for the title, they also lost out on potentially legendary bouts with Mirko against Couture or Lesnar. The only other acquisition who even remotely competes with Mirko for the title of biggest disappointment is Sokoudjou, but he didn't have much of a legacy to live up to anyways.
SCORE:3 for 4.
5. Tim Credeur vs. Nate Quarry was the most entertaining fight of this past week.
Jeremy Lambert:FICTION. As good as this fight was, I enjoyed Rick Story vs. Brian Foster a bit more. Hell, it was so good UFC showed it twice in one night. Credeur vs. Quarry was fun but it was also mainly just a striking battle. Story vs. Foster had a little big of everything. Some big exchanges, good wrestling, good scrambles, blood, and a rare submission finish.
Scott Kuczkowski:FACT. Neither Tim Credeur nor Nate Quarry will ever be champions in the Middleweight division, but they definitely cemented themselves as two guys who will go to war when needed. Their fight was an epic battle that saw Tim get the better of Nate in the first round only to have Nate come back in the second and third rounds to steal the decision. Both guys put it out on the line and left it all in the cage, which is exactly what fans wanted to see. While several fight on the Fight Night and UFC 103 cards were excellent, I think Credeur and Quarry set the bar the highest.
SCORE:3 for 5.
6. Fedor vs. Brett Rogers will be the highest rated CBS MMA show.
Jeremy Lambert:FICTION. Unless Strikeforce promotes this fight how I think they should (read this past weeks Cardio Freak) then this thing isn't beating Kimbo Slice. Love or hate Kimbo Slice but there is no denying that the man is a legit television draw. I can't say the same thing about Fedor or Rogers. Honestly the biggest draw on the card is probably Jason Miller but there's no way he is alone is big enough to outdraw the combo of Slice and Gina Carano.
Scott Kuczkowski:FICTION. First off, the record to beat was set by EliteXC: Primetime, which aired on 31 May 08, and featured Gina Carano vs. Kaitlin Young, Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith and Kimbo Slice vs. James Thompson. It peaked at about 6.5 million viewers, which is still the record. Kimbo Slice was easily the biggest draw on the card (but only slightly behind Carano) because casual viewers recognized him from youtube and wanted to see him fight in a cage. For this Strikeforce card, not many people who don't visit MMA websites know about or care about either Rogers or Fedor, and neither Strikeforce nor CBS has given them much reason to do so. While there is still time for a marketing blitz, they would have to do a heck of a job to get casual viewers to bother to tune in. Many people don't know or care about Fedor and even fewer care about Rogers. Hardcore MMA fans will tune in to watch this but I'll be surprised if it does well otherwise. Throwing Gina Carano on the show would definitely boost ratings, but that is doubtful to happen.
SCORE:4 for 6.
Kuch and I agree more often than not, which makes me a very smart man. Come back next week as two more MMA writers debate the latest happenings in the MMA world.
"but he managed to only win a single bout in the UFC against Eddie Sanchez"
Guess Turk was a WEC fighter- who knew.
Posted By: Guest#5337 (Guest) on September 22, 2009 at 11:13 PM
Turk win shouldn't count anyway. Cro Cop cheated..unintentionally or not
Posted By: Tomasz_DRWAL (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 01:11 AM
how is Mirko a bigger failure as an acquisition than the acquisition of Pride?
they planned on running events in Japan (it's been like 3 years and they haven't had any).
So basically they spent tens of millions to buy the rights to negotiate with Rodrigo, Wanderlei, Suckajew, Werdum, Shogun, Henderson, Gono, Filho,etc...
all the while failing to bring in Fedor or Gomi.
Posted By: reality check (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 02:07 AM
Sooooooo anyone wanna ask Chuck why his toenail is painted pink?
Posted By: Rageforthemachine (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 02:57 AM
In Cro Cops defense I seem to remember Kaylab Starnes who spent 15 mins running from his opponent in the cage. Then at the end having his opponent mock him and he chased him around the cage. The event was in Canada and his own people boo'd him and was promptly fired the next day.
Posted By: NewBreedofMMA (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 08:11 AM
1. Fiction - as I posted in comments somewhere else, Belfort is nothing more than a highlight fight for Silva, as Silva's otherworldly counterstriking is tailor-made to beat Belfort's aggressive style. Henderson, as has been mentioned, is the biggest challenge for Silva, as he remains the only man to win a round from Silva in the UFC. It may not be the prettiest win, but Hendo will beat Silva when it's all said and done.
2. Fiction - Like Lambert, I'd also have to give the nod to Junior Dos Santos. As impressive as Daley was, Dos Santos looked like a real contender, whereas Daley looks like another guy for GSP to take down and dryhump to a decision victory.
3. Fact - Rampage was picking the "characters" and not the best fighters. While I'd like to see Rashad lose, simply because now it seems as though Quinton won't be able to wipe that smug smirk off of his face in the Octagon, unless one of Rampage's unheralded fighters (let's be real - Simms and Kimbo aren't going to win this thing) is a lot more amazing than they've shown thus far, then Roy Nelson is winning this thing (with Schoon, aka "Titties", being the dark horse, imo).
4. True - But only with the caveat that when Fedor finally makes it to the UFC, if he does, it'll be the biggest letdown in MMA, ever. As bad, as old, as slow, as tired, as unmotivated as Cro Cop has looked in both his UFC runs, by the time Fedor decides he needs to test himself in the UFC, he's going to be past his prime, and I foresee him falling victim to the bigger, stronger heavyweights that the UFC now features. When that happens, he'll be seen as the most disappointing acquisition in UFC history. (Especially if Rogers somehow manages to do the impossible.)
5. Fiction - Gotta go with Rick Story v Brian Foster - didn't know who either guy was coming in, but they both impressed me, and if that fight didn't help people on the fence decide to buy the PPV, then something's wrong with the MMA fanbase in general.
6. Fiction - as mentioned, neither Fedor nor Rogers is enough of a draw to the casual fan to pull in bigger numbers than the Slice/Carano combo. Had they been able to do something before Rogers was off network television for an eternity, it may've worked a little better, but now, any momentum he had with the casual fan is more or less non-existent.
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 10:14 AM
"how is Mirko a bigger failure as an acquisition than the acquisition of Pride?
they planned on running events in Japan (it's been like 3 years and they haven't had any).
So basically they spent tens of millions to buy the rights to negotiate with Rodrigo, Wanderlei, Suckajew, Werdum, Shogun, Henderson, Gono, Filho,etc...
all the while failing to bring in Fedor or Gomi.
Posted By: reality check (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 02:07 AM"
____________________________________________
...because the acquisition of Pride also gave them a HUGE video library - which they both continue to use to push their talent, and by buying it, they made it much more difficult for other companies to hype up their own fighters.
With the recent acquisition of Affliction, there is very little footage of Fedor that the Zuffa doesn't own the rights to (at least in the US)... can't make things easy for Strikeforce when they want to promote him.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 12:03 PM
Does anyone else think that Cro Cop's failure in the UFC may also be due to more stringent drug testing?
Posted By: MJH (Guest) on September 23, 2009 at 09:29 PM
"4. Mirko "Cro Cop" has been the most disappointing UFC acquisition of all-time. "
FICTION, did you forget the acquisition of PRIDE FC?
Posted By: saerbarnet (Guest) on September 26, 2009 at 07:16 PM
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