411 MMA Fact or Fiction 10.28.09: Machida/Shogun Rematch, Brock/Carwin, UFC 104 Performances, UFC 10 Interest & MORE!
Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 10.28.2009
Has your UFC 106 interest been killed with Lesnar vs. Carwin off the card? Will "Shogun" Rua defeat Lyoto Machida in their upcoming rematch? Have you lost respect for Quinton Jackson after seeing him on The Ultimate Fighter? 411's Dan Plunkett and Jeffrey Harris debate these topics and more in this week's edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!
UFC 104 is in the books but not without some controversy in the main event.
To discuss the fallout from UFC 104 and news from around the MMA world this week we have the writer of the self proclaimed Greatest MMA News Column, please welcome Dan Plunkett. On the opposite side of the keyboard is a man who not only covers MMA but reviews movies, he is The Vile One, he is Jeffrey Harris.
In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!
1. "Shogun" Rua will win the rematch against Lyoto Machida.
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. I would lean towards fact here, but Lyoto said something at the UFC 104 post fight press conference that made me change my mind: "I've already been corrected in the back by my father and Anderson [Silva]. Since I'm 78% sure Anderson Silva is Superman, I have to believe he can correct the mistakes Lyoto made in this fight. With those corrections and a better game plan, I think Lyoto will pull the rematch out. I'm interested to see what game plan Shogun will come into the rematch with, since he already used a seemingly perfect one to beat Machida with on Saturday.
Jeffrey Harris:FICTION. Even though I picked Shogun in the roundtable to win the first fight and he did "win" the fight . . . rematches don't always go the same way. But it just goes to show, people justified the ridiculous situation with Anderson Silva in that he already beat Henderson and Marquardt. Rematches don't always end the same way. Either way, Shogun proved that he's still a fantastic, intelligent fighter and that Machida is not a mystical, immortal dragon and the reincarnation of Bruce Lee. Ultimately, I didn't bet any money on the first fight and I won't on this one either, so I'll say fiction.
SCORE:1 for 1.
2. Fighters should be fined 10% of their purse for every pound they go over weight.
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. That's just too much. Obviously, this is coming as a response to Anthony Johnson weighing in at 176 for his welterweight (170) fight at UFC 104. My first problem with this is how would you handle a fighter that comes in 1 pound over the limit? While most commissions have a 1 pound allowance, is that still coming in overweight? The biggest problem I have with this is that it's just too big of a penalty. While there is no excuse for coming in 6 pounds over the weight limit, taking 60% of Johnson's purse is going too far.
As of this writing, Johnson's purse hasn't been released, so I'll use the payout from his last fight as an example. In his last fight, Johnson earned $26,000. Take away 60% of that and he's left with $10,400. From that, you have to take away taxes and the money he pays his corner. So Johnson would be left with considerably less than $10,000 after it's all said and done. After that, say he gets injured training for his next fight. Now he'd have to pay for medical bills among other living expenses whilst not receiving a pay check. I suggest a system where if you miss weight by 1-3 pounds, you get say 10% taken out of your purse and that goes to your opponent. Miss weight by 3-5 pounds and 20% goes to your opponent. Should you miss weight by 5 pounds or more, 30% goes to your opponent. This way the fighter gets the message that missing weight is unacceptable, but we don't take away more than necessary to get the message across.
Jeffrey Harris:FICTION. 10% for every pound is ridiculously excessive. But I mean, had Yoshida not agreed to the fight, Johnson would not have gotten anything. I think maybe if this is the case and you win, you should have to give a portion of that bonus to your opponent. Or even if you win not get a win bonus at all. Or just turning 10% of your show pay to the other guy. I'm disappointed in Johnson, but some of these bigger guys have come in overweight and it didn't destroy their careers. Thiago Alves came in overweight against Matt Hughes. Cyborg and Carano had some weight cutting issues before their title bout.
SCORE:2 for 2.
3. The postponement of Carwin vs. Lesnar has killed your interest in UFC 106.
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. I'm still very interested in UFC 106. Despite not having a legitimate headliner and the most interesting fight on the card being taken off, it's still a very good card. In the main event you have a rematch between Forrest Griffin and Tito Ortiz. Ortiz is coming off back surgery which he claims will rejuvenate his career. Forrest has his back against the wall after two straight losses and needs a win to get back into the title picture. Plus, the first fight was very exciting and the decision was controversial, thus adding more fuel to the rematch. Another great fight on the card is Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Luiz Cane. This is the first time Cane is facing a light heavyweight near the caliber of Minotoro, and it's Minotoro's first fight in the UFC. Also on the card is Karo Parisyan vs. Dustin Hazelett. Both guys are really good on the ground so I expect to see some great judo throws and a lot of rubber guard. Not to mention, with the Lesnar/Carwin postponement and Fitch being moved to UFC 107, there is room for Phil Baroni vs. Amir Sadollah, Kendall Grove vs. Jake Rosholt, or Marcus Davis vs. Ben Saunders on the main card. I expect the latter will make the PPV and the other two will be showcased on Spike TV. While the event isn't a "must buy" anymore, I still have plenty interest in it.
Jeffrey Harris - FICTION. Not in any way, shape, or form. You still have Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin on there (at least for now) and that alone has me invested in this card. Not to mention Phil Baroni is fighting Amir Sadollah and hopefully that fight can get moved up to the main card or at least get a guaranteed broadcast on a SpikeTV pre-show. Any card with Phil Baroni has my interest. There are a bunch of other fights and fighters on this card I'm interested in, my interest is in no way dead for this show, but I am disappointed Lesnar/Carwin isn't happening.
SCORE:3 for 3.
Video Intermission
4. Besides "Shogun", Cain Velasquez turned in the most impressive UFC 104 performance.
Jeffrey Harris:FICTION. I thought Cain looked great and that he would've won the fight no matter where the stoppage happened. I think the fight actually could've been stopped in the first round. I know Cain gets heat for wins like this (a similar thing happened with his win over Stojnic), but I still think it was a great win and he looked awesome. That said, I'm saying fiction because I want to give this nod to Joe Stevenson with his TKO win over Spencer Fisher. This was a matchup not getting enough of the interest it deserved going into this PPV. Stevenson was a UFC title contender not long ago. Spencer Fisher going into the fight was an 8-3 fighter in UFC with wins over people like Caol Uno, Thiago Alves, and Dan Lauzon not to mention being on a 3 fight win streak. Stevenson has been looking absolutely amazing and much improved since he started training with Greg Jackson and he's just scored two big back to back wins over Nate Diaz and Spencer Fisher. Stevenson fought a much smarter fight here I can remember in quite some time. He didn't try to stand and strike with Fisher a whole lot and used his wrestling a lot more. Striking is what lost him the Sanchez fight. Stevenson secured a great crucifix postion worked well in the pockets and just destroyed Fisher with elbows on the grounds. I thought it was a great win for Stevenson and while he's not back in title contention he's definitely in the mix with top lightweights again.
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. Stevenson looked good, but Velasquez looked better. For the entire duration of the fight Velasquez was in control and punished Ben Rothwell with strikes. He certainly didn't look like a fighter that made his UFC debut just a year-and-a-half ago. However, despite both Velasquez and Stevenson turning in impressive performances, I was most impressed with Chael Sonnen. Sonnen's opponent, Yushin Okami, was ranked the fifth best middleweight in the world in 411's most recent rankings. You would be hard pressed to find someone picking Sonnen in this fight. Chael ended up turning in what he says was the best performance of his career, and didn't lose a round on the scorecards to the highly touted Japanese middleweight.
SCORE:4 for 4.
5. You have lost some respect for Quinton Jackson after seeing his behavior on TUF.
Jeffrey Harris:FICTION. The reason I'm putting this in fiction is because this is pretty much what I expected to happen this season. Jackson was a trainwreck as a coach the first time around and I was befuddled why he would do it a second time besides being offered a huge load of bread and Asian women. What's annoying to me is that people suddenly "like" Rashad Evans now like before Rashad Evans was this horrible disrespectful person, I guess because he beat fan favorites Liddell and Griffin in brutal fashion. Evans has always been a great personality for the sport that simply shows a little flare for the theatrics at times. That's great to see. I'm not losing respect for Jackson's antics on the show so much as disappointed by them. I've lost respect for Jackson over his behavior in "quitting" MMA and how he's handled it. I'm sure UFC probably made some mistakes in handling Rampage in the past, but they still stood by him when he went through a pretty nasty ordeal with the law and made sure he didn't spend any time in jail. UFC got him a show in his hometown which he apparently asked for. I think Jackson just needs to let it go and ignore the situation rather than posting blogs about it that make him sound whiney. He's not doing himself any favors.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. It's not that I was expecting Rampage to be a great coach this time around, but he's threatening to rename "The Shamrock Division," "The Rampage Division" for worst coaching on The Ultimate Fighter. His poor coaching isn't what has caused me to lost some respect for him though. Hell, he could be the worst coach in the world and that wouldn't cause me to lose respect for him. I don't like how he abandons his fighters, you know, the ones he picked after evaluating their talent for a day. Once it gets to a certain point (which is where he's at now), you have to think either a) I'm doing something wrong as a coach, or b) The team I picked completely sucks and there's really no hope for any of them to be top MMA fighters. Either way, it's Rampage's fault that his team isn't good. The team not performing well is no excuse to walk away from the cage while you're fighter is inside trying to cope with a loss. That's what made me lose some respect for Rampage.
SCORE:4 for 5.
6. Nate Diaz has a better chance at winning his rematch against Gray Maynard than Jon Fitch does against Thiago Alves.
Jeffrey Harris:FICTION. I wouldn't say that. Maynard's definitely evolved and improved as a fighter since leaving the show. Diaz is super-tough but he doesn't seem to fight like he should. In the Guida fight it almost looked like he was not taking it seriously enough (just personal opinion). He's got world class BJJ, but Maynard's shown some aptitude on the ground as well as knowing how to avoid tough spots like in the Miller fight.
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. Fitch/Alves 2 is pretty much a pick'em in my opinion. I could see both guys winning that fight. I would give a considerable edge to Gray Maynard against Nate Diaz. By fight time, it will be close to 3 years since they last fought. Maynard has improved his stand-up game to the point where I think he beats Diaz there. Should he take it to the ground, which I wouldn't do if I were him, he has much more experience with submissions than when they fought the first time.
SCORE:5 for 6.
Like the UFC 104 judges, Dan and Jeffrey are on the same page.
Come back next week as two more MMA writers preview Strikeforce on CBS and debate the latest happenings in the MMA world.
10% for 1lb over.
20% for 2lb to 4.5lb over.
50% for anything above 4.5lb over + if they win, a percentage of their win bonus goes to their opponent (equal to the win bonus of opponent had opponent won) with the rest going to charity.
Posted By: dale (Guest) on October 27, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Anderson Silva rematch situation is in no way similar. He didn't just beat Henderson and Marquardt, he finished them, and convincingly in my eyes. The Marquardt fight took just one punch - the ref never saw it right away, but one punch left Nate covering and taking many more unnecessary blows and in the Henderson fight he may have lost the first round, but never actually looked in that much trouble.
Machida's situation is completely different. He won a close decision, which most ppl believe he didn't deserve.
I also disagree on the 10% taking of purse, but something has to be done. He may make the sacrifices, but honestly, walking around the same size as some light heavyweights, Johnson has no business competing in the welterweight division. I may seem ignorant and get some stick here, but that's my opinion. Maybe a weigh in on the day also is the answer, to make sure the opponent isn't fighting a light heavyweight on the night.
Posted By: Guest#3521 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 12:10 AM
The postponement of Carwin vs. Lesnar has killed your interest in UFC 106.
FACT and a half
Posted By: The Anvil (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 12:15 AM
106 needs a new Main event asap. Right now its a guy who hasent fought in like 2 years vs a dude whos been owned in his last 2 fights. MUST BUY!!!
Posted By: dff (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 12:45 AM
Sorry Jeffrey Harris, are you dumb and blind? What do you mean Shogun did 'win' the fight? No, Shogun LOST the fight. It's a fact, not an opinion. Did you forget to hear the announcement of Machida as the winner? Shogun lost, Machida won. Can we move on passed this, because it's clear the Shogun fanboys are still crying over a correct decision and trying to claim he 'won' a fight which in fact he didn't.
Posted By: SummerTwilight7 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 07:12 AM
In the rematch of Machida and Shogun, sure machida will correct what he did wrong but OF COURSE shogun will come in with a spiced up game plan. I think shogun can do the same game plan but execute not getting hit by telegraphing machida's moves...machida won't change his 1 trick 2 his stand up
Posted By: Its Shogun Nigga (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 08:12 AM
I never respected rampage , 1st time i saw him he was talking shit and acting hard this never changed. I hate anyone who acts hardcore gangsta shit. And he is just that to me so i hope i never have to see him again
Posted By: Guest#0561 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 09:11 AM
Royce Vs Chuck Catchweight for 106.
Posted By: Steeler Steve (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 09:14 AM
losing lesnar/carwin killed my interest until I read this morning that Rumble/Koscheck was going to replace it, now i am almost as excited as i was.
I can't stand Koscheck, he came off as a total prick on the show and hes done nothing since then to change that perception. There is nothing I would enjoy more than seeing his face smashed in.
In addition to that Rumble is easily in my top 3 favorite fighters in the UFC right now. I will catch some flack for this but I see him defeating GSP in a year or two (most likely 2).
So now I will get to see one of my favorite fighters take on one of my more hated fighters, 106 just became a highly anticipated show for me.
Posted By: stronelis (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 09:24 AM
Only a clown like Rampage can make people like Evans. Evans is a jackass himself and if it wasn't for Rampage outshining him (maybe not shining) in terms of idiocy and unlikeability, nobody would be talking about how much they like Evans. Evans is an instigator and is a very fake personality. He will put his foot right back into his mouth in the buildup to his next fight, provided the other guy is not a jackass themselves (outside of Rampage, they probably aren't).
I would have actually had Shogun fight Evans, I don't think an immediate rematch is a good idea. I personally do not want to see it.
Posted By: Guest#9075 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 12:24 PM
Rampage claimed the scenes were edited to make him look bad. The shows editors can only edit what was done on camera. If your behavior repeatedly makes you look bad you can’t blame it all on the editors.
Posted By: GTM (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 01:39 PM
Hey SummerTwilight,
"No, Shogun LOST the fight. It's a fact, not an opinion."
No, it's an opinion. If it was a fact, then we wouldn't have needed judges.
Posted By: Guest#0013 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 02:35 PM
Fuck Rampage. Kimbo Slice should be in the A-Team movie bruttha!
Posted By: fury (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 02:35 PM
The current penalty for being overweight is fine. The guy lost not only the percentage of his purse, but Dana said he would have won KO of the night, so he lost another potential 60K. I think that has to sting plenty.
Posted By: Jeremy S (Registered) on October 28, 2009 at 03:31 PM
No, it's an opinion. If it was a fact, then we wouldn't have needed judges.
Posted By: Guest#0013 (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 02:35 PM
And the judges rendered a victory for Machida therefore it is a fact that Machida won the fight, no matter how much the internet fans bitch about it.
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 05:09 PM
My respect has only gone up for rampage, without him the show wouldnt be good, RAMPAGE IS F'NG HILARIOUS
Just Like Tyson, two greats of THERE time, Yeah as much as i like rampage I think evans would kill him (yeah yeah im not talking lucky punch catch win statisticly) seriously i fight for fun, It is a huge bitch to make weight
Dale your an idiot obviously you have never made weight or done anyting where youve had to
like I think it was joe riggs vs matt hughes diesel didnt make weight but matt fought anyway, if its by a small but substantial amount a SMALL TINY Miniscule amount should be taken and given to the openent if still agrees to fight, fuck that charity bullshit Fighters deserved to be paid for what they endure time and effort its big deal if you actually train for a LivinG
Shit happens a pound over really unless its for a title its not a big deal in ufc your allowed to be 1Lb over as long as its not a title fight
I dont think it should matter unless its like a crazy amount like 10 or 15 lbs where you didn care
(which yeah yeah yeah is unheard of but gets the point across)
Machida seems to me as of now how Gsp was first starting off, so we will see
the spider is just an all time great so with him in your corner your gonna be good, so we will see about the machida era in the future
and thats the bottom line bc S/p Says So
Posted By: Superman (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 06:52 PM
Yes, my interest has been totally killed. First Jon Fitch/Ricardo Almeida gets pulled, then Lesnar. The problem is, I already bought tickets for the damn thing seeing how strong of an overall card it WAS...now the 'big surprise' card was a match I already expected to see- little Nog vs Luis Cane. This thing is blown beyond recognition, unless Matt Hughes or something big gets put on the card. I'm pissed and I can't get a refund, and the tickets are worth at least $100 less.
Posted By: Scott_NM (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 07:03 PM
"And the judges rendered a victory for Machida therefore it is a fact that Machida won the fight, no matter how much the internet fans bitch about it."
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 05:09 PM
Yes because as have been proven time after time, judges are never biased and always rate based on the fighter who put on the more dominant performance, as opposed to rating simply based of the one who will bring in more money for potential future bouts or hometown posterboy/girl. As has been proven in bouts such as Holyfield vs Lewis I, Bisping vs Hamill, Stern vs De la Hoya, Tarver vs Jones I, and lastly, Machida vs Shogun.
Posted By: III (Guest) on October 28, 2009 at 09:07 PM
