411 MMA Fact or Fiction 11.11.09: Fedor/Werdum, Couture Needing a Win, Cung Le's Return & MORE!
Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 11.11.2009
Was Brett Rogers more impressive than Fedor despite losing? Are you excited for the Strikeforce return of Cung Le? Does Randy Couture need a victory more than Brandon Vera at UFC 105? 411 MMA writers Samer Kadi and Daniel Bonnizzio debate those topics and more in this week's edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!
The first big show of November is down as Strikeforce made their CBS debut this past weekend. Have no fear MMA fans, UFC makes their November 09 debut this Saturday with UFC 105
To debate the fallout of Strikeforce on CBS and to preview UFC 105 this week we have the master of the Rear Naked Column, Samer Kadi. His opponent has the most explosive Takedown MMA News Report, Daniel Bonnizzio.
In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!
1. Despite losing, Brett Rogers impressed more than Fedor.
Samer Kadi:FICTION. Rogers did rather well, better than I personally expected. He more than held his own in the clinch and while he didn't land anything significant there, he was able to control Fedor and push him against the fence, which is an unknown territory for Fedor as he had never fought in a cage before. He used his size really well, both in the clinch and on the ground. While he doesn't have the best technique, Rogers was able to use his size and natural strength to sweep Fedor on the ground and scrambled back to his feet on a couple of occasions. He also showed a remarkably good base. Granted, he had some obvious flaws and the fight did expose some holes in his game, which you can read all about in tomorrow's edition of "The Rear Naked Column" when I review the Strikeforce show (cheap plug, I know). With that said, Fedor won the fight and won it decisively. And he did so without ever being in major trouble. The bloody nose might have made the thing more dramatic, but at no point was the fight in danger of being stopped because of that, and it was busted open because of a jab. Aside from that, Fedor didn't take any significant shots on his feet and while he did find himself on his back for a few seconds, he quickly was able to reverse after a failed armbar attempt. And finally, he beat Rogers at his own game, which is enough for me. It wasn't Fedor's most impressive performance by any means, but it was good enough.
Daniel Bonnizzio:FICTION. Agreed. While Brett was winning on points it was only because of the vast difference in the two. Brett was bigger and stronger and knew how to fight in a cage. Fedor, not so much. While the bloodied nose was climactic for the fans the fact was Fedor was never really rocked and Brett was dropped with a single HUGE right hand. He gave us a hell of an impression and lasted a whole round longer than anyone thought he would, and many thought he won the first round, but Fedor impressed so much more with his composure, how he adapted and how he got Brett down. He finally beat someone many won't label as a can and in that he really impressed.
SCORE:1 for 1.
2. Randy Couture needs a win more than Brandon Vera at UFC 105.
Samer Kadi:FACT. Absolutely. Sure, this is by far the biggest fight of Vera's career and could very well be his golden opportunity to live up to his potential. But at the end of the day, if he loses, all it does is solidify his reputation as an underachiever. And the guy is young enough to bounce back. He's not in danger of being cut and could still work his way up the ladder. Granted, it would significantly hinder the chances of him ever becoming a world champion but to be honest I don't think he's good enough. On the other hand, Randy is a 46 year old man. He won't be cheating age forever and at this stage of his career, every fight counts. He's coming off back to back losses, and the move to the light heavyweight division is supposed to mark a "new beginning" for The Natural. But if he loses his third straight, to Brendon Vera no less, you gotta think it's the end of Randy Couture as a relevant fighter in any weight class. If he can't beat Vera, does he even deserve to take on some of the bigger names like Anderson Silva, Machida, Rashad or Shogun, let alone beat them? With four fights left on his contract (excluding the Vera fight), a loss here would put Randy in a really awkward spot. Does he become the stepping stone for up and coming fighters? Or does he call it a career and move on?
Daniel Bonnizzio:FACT. And doubly so because it's in the ultra-deep Light Heavyweight division. Brandon Vera exploded onto the scene, running through Heavyweights until his first loss ever, by way of Sylvia decision. He dropped to Light Heavyweight and is 3-1 with his lone loss coming to Keith Jardine. He's on a 2 fight win streak and can afford to drop one as Dana still thinks he's got some special stuff left in him. Randy is on a two fight losing streak and as I mentioned about Forrest, not many can afford a 3 fight losing streak, even in different divisions. Not every fight in going to be Sylvia/Couture at UFC 68 and sometimes you lose. Randy needs this win badly if he wants to stay atop the deep waters in the Light Heavyweight division, or even just employed by the UFC.
SCORE:2 for 2.
3. You're excited for the Strikeforce return of Cung Le.
Samer Kadi:FICTION. Meh. I like to watch Cung Le fight. He's exciting, puts on good fights and his flashy stand up is always fun for the viewer. I'm actually happy he's coming back and the fight with Scott Smith should be very entertaining. But I wouldn't go as far as saying "I'm excited", mainly because I don't think Cung Le's heart is in the sport, nor has it ever been. He'll do well against carefully selected opponents, but aside from that, the guy is certainly not the world beater many claim he is. He's 37 years old and he knows it. He'll fight Scott Smith, take the money and then go on to make B movies in Hollywood. Again, I'm looking forward to watch him in the cage once more, but the news hardly made me jump out of my seat.
Daniel Bonnizzio:FICTION. Be still my beating heart. At first when I heard he was coming back I was angry because the dude had JUST vacated the Middleweight championship. Makes no sense. Le has had some exciting fights and has some pretty striking but outside fo that he's no champion. He beat an over-the-hill Frank Shamrock to win the belt and hasn't beaten anyone of name since then or up to then. While it was nice to see a fighter return to the Strikeforce middleweight division, if only for a night, he's not going to make huge waves and in the end the whole thing reeks of 'meh.'
SCORE:3 for 3.
Video Intermission
4. Mike Swick vs. Dan Hardy will win main card fight of the night honors.
Daniel Bonnizzio:FACT. These two guys go out and try to fight their fights which are explosive and exciting. Quick Swick will be looking to bum-rush Hardy or pull him into his patented Swick-o-tine and Hardy will be looking to use his bigger strength to bully Swick around and end this fight soon. The only other fight on the main card I see as a possible Fight of the Night winner is Pearson/Riley but only because like 90% of all Fight of the Nights go to the lightweights. Swick/Hardy has my money.
Samer Kadi:FACT. I guess. Like Daniel said, Pearson/Riley definitely has a chance, but if Pearson's bout with Andre Winner is any indication, the guy loves to clinch repeatedly. And while it's effective, it doesn't make for the most exciting fight. If Swick and Hardy decide to trade, it could end up being a great stand up battle. Hardy's striking has gotten increasingly technical, which should come to no surprise seeing as he's training with Freddy Roach. His counter left hook of Rory Markham was textbook. He also out-struck Marcus Davis by showing some sharp versatile striking, and even knocked him down with a knee. Swick for his part is known for having some of the fastest hands in the division. With that said, Swick has been keen on getting underhooks and taking his opponent down lately, and with Hardy's lack of takedown defense, it would be a smart idea. In case that happens, the fight might end up being disappointing.
SCORE:4 for 4.
5. Should Dan Henderson sign with Strikeforce, he should fight Gegard Mousasi first.
Daniel Bonnizzio:FICTION. I've always said that you have to earn a title shot, and while Dan has proven to being one of the best in the world, so has Gegard. I would like to see Dan versus anyone else first but unfortunately the UFC has gobbled up all the quality 205 pounders in the sport so there is really nobody else. I would prefer to see Hendo fight someone else, and I think he SHOULD fight someone else, but the 'depth' or lack thereof of the non-UFC Light Heavyweight division would prevent that from happening.
Samer Kadi:FACT. While I agree with Daniel when it comes to fighters having to earn their title shots, what's the Strikeforce light heavyweight title really? And more importantly, what's the Strikeforce light heavyweight division? If Dan Henderson does end up signing with Strikeforce, he will be fighting at Light Heavyweight as he's more comfortable in that weight class and he repeated on numerous occasions that the only reason he was fighting in the middleweight division was to get another crack at Anderson Silva. So looking at the light heavyweights under contract with Strikeforce, who's there for Hendo to fight? We must also keep in mind that Mousasi got a shot at the title on his Strikeforce debut, so why shouldn't Dan Henderson (who's far more accomplished and well known) get the same treatment? Finally, let's not overlook the the fact that everyone knows who Dan Henderson is. That's the advantage Strikeforce possesses when it comes to signing a well known former UFC fighter. Unlike Fedor who many casual fans were unfamiliar with, 1.6 million people saw Dan Henderson knock Michael Bisping out at UFC 100, and many others watched him on season 9 of The Ultimate Fighter. Mousasi is starting to garner some name recognition and Hendo is a legend in the sport, so if Strikeforce gets the chance to put this fight together, they should jump over it immediately.
SCORE:4 for 5.
6. Fedor vs. Werdum doesn't excite you at all.
Daniel Bonnizzio:FICTION. As with any Fedor fight you look at it as "Fedor vs A-Soon-To-Be-Dead-Guy" and Werdum fits the bill perfectly, but that's not to say I don't look forward to a possible Werdum/Fedor fight in the future. Werdum is a pretty good Heavyweight and a legit top-10 guy, especially with his win over Antonio Silva on Nov 7.
Samer Kadi:FACT. I don't want to be saying this as I'm always looking forward to seeing the top fighters in action. But in my opinion, Werdum poses no threat to Fedor whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, the guy in my mind is a legit top 10 heavyweight, but this is just a horrible match up for him. Werdum's game is most efficient when he's on top. And chances are, he won't be enjoying that position against Fedor. He's largely inefficient from his back and let's face it, Big Nog couldn't submit Fedor from the bottom. And finally, I really fear for Werdum in the stand up. It's always fun to see Fedor destroy someone, but right now, I would rather watch him in a semi competitive bout (for about 2 minutes or so) with Alistair Overeem.
SCORE:4 for 6.
Samer and Daniel got off to a fast agreeing start but things went south when Daniel felt Samer low balled him on a contract offer.
Come back next week as two more MMA writers will debate the fallout of UFC 105 as well as previewing WEC 44 and UFC 106.
This Past Strikforce was the first time I have ever watched any MMA event. I like the product. I felt the Rogers was a VERY sore loser. I am looking forward to watching some UFC pay per views...
Posted By: Horhay (Guest) on November 10, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Horhay go to a local Buffalo wild wings during paperviews they always show the fights for free
Posted By: NewBreedofMMA (Guest) on November 11, 2009 at 08:08 AM
The only way Werdum should even be considered as Fedor's next opponent is if Overeem is finally stripped of the title and it becomes a title fight. The only interesting fight for Fedor right now in StrikeForce is Overeem, and if Overeem fights him in the US under drug tested conditions, that fight may not even be interesting.
Posted By: Guest Guest (Guest) on November 11, 2009 at 08:41 AM
You should catch up on some of the best UFC fights on UFC Unleashed on Spike TV.
Posted By: lowe (Guest) on November 11, 2009 at 11:04 AM
1. Daniel Bonnizzio: FICTION
"He finally beat someone many won't label as a can and in that he really impressed."
How much do you want to bet that all the Fedor-haters are going to say that Rogers is a nobody/can?
Posted By: Shawno420 (Guest) on November 11, 2009 at 04:57 PM
