411 MMA Fact or Fiction 11.18.09: Ortiz/Griffin 2, Couture's Victory, Interim Heavyweight Title & MORE!
Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 11.18.2009
Should the UFC create an Interim Heavyweight Title while Brock Lesnar is out? Will Forrest Griffin avenge his UFC 59 loss to Tito Ortiz this Saturday? Who turned in the most impressive performance at UFC 105? 411's Dan Plunkett and Adam Tool debate these topics and more in this week's edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!
November continues to roll on with two big MMA shows down but still two more to go.
To debate the fallout of UFC 105 as well as preview WEC 44 and UFC 106 this week we have the writer of the self proclaimed Greatest MMA News Column, Mr. Dan Plunkett. His opponent is a special guest courtesy of FiveOuncesofPain, I always give this man a thumbs up, please welcome back, Adam Tool
In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!
1. Despite winning, you were not impressed with Randy Couture's performance.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. Randy's game plan in this fight was to push Brandon against the cage, rough him up with dirty boxing, and take him down. The only part he really accomplished was the push him against the cage part. It was in that position that the majority of the fight took place, giving Couture the slight edge on the judges' scorecards. Couture was only able to take Vera down one time in the entire fight, that was in the first round. On top of that, Vera actually took Couture down in round 3 and mounted him. I also thought Couture didn't perform well in the striking department. It looked like he was simply outmatched there by Vera.
Adam ToolFACT. There was little to be impressed by, and Dan already hit on all the technical reasons why. I'm more disappointed in the fact that this was Randy's big return to the light heavyweight division and the company gave him a bit off a softball opponent in Brandon Vera for his first fight back. Throw some credit to Vera's way for getting the better of the striking (what there was of it) but after seeing "The Natural" squeak out a win here I'm not sure if I can get on board this talk of him fighting for the belt anytime soon.
SCORE:1 for 1.
2. The fight you are most interested in at UFC 106 is Rogerio Nogueira vs. Luiz Cane.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. This is the best fight on the card. Minotoro Nogueira has been a top light heavyweight for years, and on Saturday he'll finally join his brother in the UFC. Luiz Cane has been on a roll, winning consecutive fights over Jason Lambert, Sokoudjou, ans Steve Cantwell. This will be the biggest test of his career and will show if he's ready to take on the best the light heavyweight division has to offer. Shogun Rua, Rashad Evans, and Randy Couture are all guys who we talk about as title contenders, but the winner of this fight will be in title hunt as well. The reason this fight is the most interesting for me is because it involves two top light heavyweights and has title implications. It should be a good one.
Adam ToolFICTION. The Cane/Nog fight is sexy as hell, but there's one other bout in the lineup that's got me a bit more excited. I know it's a late addition to the card, but I'll be honest in saying that I'm intrigued as hell by the welterweight match-up between Josh Koscheck and Anthony Johnson. Koscheck is trying to make a run at the belt while building up a reputation as one of the most active fighters in the company. Meanwhile you've got the young upstart in Johnson who is one KO away from reaching the upper levels of the division. I still haven't figured out who I think is going to win, and it's always the fights that I have a hard time picking that interest me the most.
SCORE:1 for 2.
3. Forrest Griffin will avenge his UFC 59 loss to Tito Ortiz this Saturday.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. He has to. A loss here will put him outside title contention for a long time. Forrest has done nothing but improve since their first meeting in April of 2006. His striking, ground game, his takedown defense has improved. If Tito is going to win this fight, it's going to be on the ground. Tito is a very good wrestler, but Forrest trains with better wrestlers. I think Forrest will be able to keep this fight standing long enough to score enough points to win the fight by decision. Sure, there's the whole fixed back thing Tito has going for him, but this is his first fight back in a year-and-a-half. Plus, there's got to be a reason why he was so adamant about taking an "easy" fight against Mark Coleman first.
Adam ToolFACT. It's like Dan said, Forrest has made steady improvements ever since the first fight and will be a completely different man than he was three years ago. What has Tito done since then? His only other wins since then were against Ken Shamrock, and the last one was six months after the Griffin fight. He's coming off an 18 month layoff, not to mention major back surgery and newborn twins. Forrest is looking to recover from back-to-back losses for the first time in his career, and I believe he'll be as good or better than we've ever seen him. I think Forrest should have won the first fight and I'm fully confident that he'll get that win this Saturday.
SCORE:2 for 3.
Video Intermission
4. Dan Hardy turned in the most impressive performance at UFC 105.
Adam ToolFICTION. I'll give Hardy credit for winning when nobody gave him much of a chance, but that's about it. I feel that Hardy missed out on a couple of opportunities to really press the action and put Swick away. The winner of this fight is going to be stepping up to face Georges St. Pierre, but there was little in Hardy's performance that led me to believe he'll have any sort of shot against the welterweight kingpin.
The person who impressed me the most on Saturday night was actually Ross Pearson. His win at the Ultimate Fighter Finale was not exactly inspiring, and we knew he was going into his first post-"TUF" bout against a dangerous opponent in Aaron Riley. The season 9 champion was the underdog leading up to the event, but you wouldn't have known it by watching the fight. Pearson lit Riley up right from the get go, winning a pretty decisive 10-8 round before getting the finish in the second. I had little interest in Pearson's UFC career on Saturday morning, but I'll be watching him very closely from now on.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. Ross Pearson had a very good performance on Saturday, but I have to go with the guy who beat a top ten welterweight to get a title shot. There weren't many people that picked Hardy to win this fight, myself included. I thought Swick would either catch him standing or in his semi-famous guillotine. Obviously, neither happened. Hardy did very well standing and improves every time he fights. However, this in now way means I even thought about picking him against Georges St. Pierre. I don't think that will even be a fight.
SCORE:2 for 4.
5. Mike Brown vs. Jose Aldo will not make it to the Championship Rounds.
Adam ToolFACT. Looking at the strengths of both champion and challenger, I'd be more than a little surprised if this one goes into deep waters. Brown has some of the heaviest hands in the featherweight division, and a ground game that's more than capable of getting the job done. Aldo is known for his dynamic striking and aggression, but he's if he gets planted on his back he's also got some high-level Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I'm looking forward to this bout more than any other fight next week, and that's because I expect fireworks from start to finish.
Dan Plunkett:FACT. I can see this fight going into the championship rounds, but it's more likely this is finished in the first three. Aldo has been on a tear, finishing his last 5 opponents by TKO. Not to mention he's a black belt in BJJ. I don't see Brown finishing this one with a submission, but he could very well knock Aldo out or get a stoppage due to strikes. The money is on this fight ending before we enter round four.
SCORE:3 for 5.
6. UFC should create an interim Heavyweight title while Lesnar is sidelined.
Adam ToolFICTION. What do we know? We know Lesnar is very sick, but that's about it (at least at the moment I'm typing this). If this were an injury they could have some sort of estimation for the time he'll need to miss, but until they have a better idea of the extent of his illness then this interim title talk can stop for the time being. If his condition is bad enough that he won't be competing in the next 6-8 months then we may need another title, but let's get the facts in order first. Besides, who do they have right now that could challenge for the belt? Current #1 contender Shane Carwin is rehabbing from knee surgery, and will be out for at least a few months. Cain Velasquez and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira were scheduled to determine the next top contender but obviously that fight is off now as well. Junior Dos Santos is about the only other name that could come up but I don't think the UFC is at a point of desperation where they would need to try and promote Velasquez vs. Dos Santos as a championship main event. The heavyweight belt has only been unified since July, do we really need to split it up again so soon?
Dan Plunkett:FICTION. Right now, I can't say fact. I don't know exactly what's wrong with Brock Lesnar, nor do I know what the average layoff for an intestinal problem is. Until we get some sort of time frame for his return, I can't say that they should create an interim title. If tomorrow it came out that Brock was going to be out for more than six months, then the UFC probably should make an interim belt, it's best for business. Events with title fights on them do better on PPV and it adds something to events like UFC 103, 106, and 108, all of which had three round non-title main events.
SCORE:4 for 6.
Dan and Adam agree more often than not so they're getting along better than most MMA fans and the judges nowadays.
Come back next week as two more MMA writers debate the fallout from WEC 44 and UFC 106 as well as the latest news in the MMA world.
Posted By: MBD (Guest) on November 17, 2009 at 11:44 PM
Well I dont like tito or griffin but id rather see tito win just to piss off griffin becuase they both suck and had there peak looong ago i find it hilarious after the silva fight forrest said he needed to fight like he use to, wow spoken like an idiot right your suppose to learn from your mistakes not go back to them
Dan hardy well i believe is and can be a real talent hel get destroyed by gsp and then make his name
randy just retire with your win and call it a night
i think they should create an interm belt and if brock is out for more than a year without even beginning a talk of a match, strip em
yeah its sad what happend to him but hey THE SHOW HAS TO GO ON you cant take the chance away from everyone else who derserves as much or if not more than him, Look back at what happend to mir they did it to him why not Lesnar
Bottom Line The Show has to Go On
Posted By: Sgt Mac (Guest) on November 17, 2009 at 11:51 PM
fuck tito! WAR FORREST
Posted By: Mikey D (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 12:03 AM
GO TITO!
Posted By: GO (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 12:09 AM
First give Tito the rematch. Then once he loses which he will. Give him a fight against the winner of the Coleman/Couture fight. Which Couture will win by ref stoppage in 2nd. Just so I can tito get spanked for 3 rounds of fun. Then fire him. Simple as that.
Posted By: Bigmatt0011 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 04:09 AM
when has Forrest shown any ability to wrestle? He has some of the worst take down defense in the LHW division. Tito will win a UD here.
oh and doesn't everyone know that the British suck at amateur wrestling? Dan Hardy is going to get embarrassed. I don't really understand why he is getting this title shot. If they wanted to give a Brit a title shot give it to Daley. I bet it is because Daley is black and apparently a black man can't represent Great Britain.
Posted By: reality check (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 04:26 AM
i think they should create an interm belt and if brock is out for more than a year without even beginning a talk of a match, strip em
yeah its sad what happend to him but hey THE SHOW HAS TO GO ON you cant take the chance away from everyone else who derserves as much or if not more than him, Look back at what happend to mir they did it to him why not Lesnar
Bottom Line The Show has to Go On
Posted By: Sgt Mac (Guest) on November 17, 2009 at 11:51 PM
______________________________________________________
...they also waited a full year after his accident, scheduled him to fight- and only when they learned that he wouldn't be able to return to fight then, did they finally strip him.... 14 months later.
As it was, they waited nearly 5 months after the accident to have an interim belt- waiting until they had a better idea of if/ when he'd be able to return first.
Brock just had surgery yesterday, details are still extremely sketchy, and I'm sure once they can better gauge how he's recovering- they'll decide. Until then, there's no reason to rush into another interim belt when Brock solidified them just 4 months ago.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 09:17 AM
The problem with creating an interim champ is although it may be "needed", is that there is no one the public would buy as a credible champ. Nog was destoyed by Mir, Mir was destoyed by Lesnar, Couture is a LHW and lost to Lesnar and Nog, Carwin is hurt, largely unkown and has a lot to prove, Velasquez is largely unknown and has a lot to prove, Kongo is a punching bag for the stars, so where in the HW division does anyone see anything approaching a champ outside of Brock?
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 10:48 AM
As far as Randy goes, you know there is a big problem when the crowd is ravenously booing that man. That "fight" was an attempted 15 minute leg hump, which he had no business winning. I know he "won" based on control but actually doing damage and engaging your opponent should count too. Randy made no attempt to damage,engage or be offensive in that "fight". He just dry humped vera as much as possible and waited for the bell, like the outcome was never in doubt. (Btw I am a fan of Captain America but I've gotta call it like I see it, sorry Randy)
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 10:56 AM
Everyone seems to glazing over the possibility that after two straight horrificly embarassing losses that Forrest may very well be shot. Add that to the fact that he's facing a supposedly healthy, refocused former dominant champion and it could very well be a long night for the the furry one. If Tito really is 100% and has regained the ability to shoot explosively, I don't see how Forrest can win.Were gonna find out what he's made of in a major way. (Prediction- Ortiz via bloody decision, if not a stoppage due to ground and pound.)
Posted By: gbh1978 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 11:06 AM
Dan Hardy's fight against GSP is win-win, because NOBODY expects him to even hurt GSP, so pretty much all he needs to do is give a creditable account of himself and BAM, he's securely top five in the WW division. Seriously, if he rocks GSP once, or continually blocks his takedowns, or does SOMETHING noteworthy, then even if he loses, people will have a heck of alot more respect for Hardy.
It's a great opportunity for him, and one he earned by promoting his own fights (which makes him a good candidate for TUF just like Michael Bisping) and then WINNING those fights.
Dan Hardy is going the Tito Ortiz/Frank Mir route in the UFC, and there's nothing wrong with that at all.
Good luck kid, you'll need it, but all you gotta do is show people you deserve to be in there win, lose or draw with St. Pierre and you're a made man.
Posted By: Jon (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 11:12 AM
hasnt daley lost like 2 of his last three fights?
Posted By: lowe (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 11:18 AM
SAVE US FRANK MIR
Posted By: Guest#4537 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 01:22 PM
While i do believe it will be a tough fight for both guys, Tito looks more motivated then ever and he is completly healed and injury free, I believe he will win the unanimious decision. In my opinion griffin was never an elite level fighter, just an exciting fighter and after his last two performances i think unfortuantly for him it will be loss number 3
Posted By: Cody (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 05:40 PM
I may be the only one on this but i say strip brock of the belt that not hate talking so dont start looking at the facts his title fight was pushed back twice already one for some kind of flu then mono thats before news came out that he was in da hospital and now they have no clue if or when he'll be back guys have been striped of belts for less it may no be far for brock but its also not far for the fans, the fighters or even business they need to make a choice asap whats the different from coulture contract problem or even frank mir's motorcycle accident were they had no clue of the out come of both and just made an interim title i like brock have since he beat the rock at summerslam but come on
Posted By: Guest#7117 (Guest) on November 18, 2009 at 10:37 PM
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