411 MMA Fact or Fiction 11.25.09: Ortiz/Griffin 3, Best of November, Koscheck/Hardy & MORE!

Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 11.25.2009

Are you interested in seeing Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin 3? Will Randy Couture get a Light Heavyweight Title shot if he beats Coleman? Was UFC 106 the best November MMA event? Should Josh Koscheck get a Welterweight Title shot before Dan Hardy? 411's Jeffrey Harris and Jeremy Lambert debate those topics and more in this week's edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!

A MMA heavy November comes to a close but just around the corner is another stacked month of fighting.

This week, to debate the fallout of UFC 106 and more, we have a jack of all trades here at 411, the man who jinxed Marcus Davis, The Vile One, Jeffrey Harris. His opponent is yours truly, THE Cardio Freak, Jeremy Lambert.

In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!



1. You are interested in seeing Ortiz vs. Griffin 3.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION. Not really. The second fight went pretty much the same as the first one except Tito didn't do anything in the third round because he gassed. It was close but it wasn't so great that I desperately want to see a rubber match. I sort of see a third one going the same thing again. While Ortiz has shown he hasn't really improved or changed much as a fighter, look at Forrest Griffin. Griffin had a gassed and backpedaling Ortiz in the first round bouncing off the cage and he made no move to finish the fight at all. Griffin just doesn't seem to have the power to get the job done in situations like that.

Jeremy Lambert: FICTION. I have no interest in seeing Tito Ortiz fight ever again. He's not exciting unless he's getting punched in the face, he hasn't finished anyone not named Ken Shamrock since 2001, and he has an excuse after every fight whether he wins or loses. Also, as a fan of Forrest Griffin, I have no interest in watching him in a meaningless fight. He just beat Tito Ortiz. Beating him again does nothing for him. He needs to move to better things to try and get back into title contention because another win over Ortiz won't do that for.

SCORE: 1 for 1.

2. Rogerio Nogueira turned in the most impressive performance at UFC 106.

Jeffrey Harris: FACT. I would give it to Koscheck, but he decided to play Ric Flair for the night. I mean, I knew Nogueira was good, but I honestly didn't imagine him just flattening Cane like that. He really seems to have put all memories of the Sokoudjou loss to bed now. The thing is, Rogerio right now probably has the best claim to a UFC light heavyweight title shot at the moment. But will Machida and Rogerio be willing to put their silly Brazilian/family code of honor aside to fight for a title?

Jeremy Lambert: FACT. It's not even close to me. Koscheck was impressive but I wasn't as sold on Anthony Johnson as everyone else so it didn't surprise me that he won the way he did. I was sold on Luiz Cane however and I thought he had all the tools to compete for the Light Heavyweight title in the near future. He still has the tools but thanks to the left hand of Nogueira, his title hopes are delayed until further notice. Not only did Nogueira dominate Cane, he did so on the feet, which isn't even his main strength. Just wait until he shows off his ground game.

SCORE: 2 for 2.

3. Randy Couture will get a Light Heavyweight title shot if he defeats Mark Coleman.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION. I'm just putting fiction because the original thought is that he would if beat Brandon Vera. And while he "won" that fight (and I think he could've taken it on the scorecards), many feel he did not truly beat Vera. I wouldn't entirely rule this option out. I just don't see how a win over Coleman unless its rather spectacular will fast track Couture to a title shot when Couture seems to finally be "showing his age" in the cage as Samer Kadi recently put it.

Jeremy Lambert: FACT. Does he deserve a title shot with wins over Vera and Coleman? No. But will he get it? I think so. UFC clearly wants to give Couture one last crack at the title. Two wins combined with his name value and lack of a true contender at Light Heavyweight will be enough for Couture. Maybe the winner of Evans vs. Silva deserves the title shot more but if Machida is still champion does anyone really want to see Machida vs. Evans/Silva 2? Didn't think so. MMA is just as much about business as it is sport and Couture going for one last title is just good business.

SCORE: 2 for 3.

Video Intermission



4. UFC 106 was the best MMA event in November.

Jeremy Lambert: FICTION. This was a tough choice with all the great November events but I'm going with a rather bias answer and saying that Strikeforce on CBS was the best event this month. All four fights delivered and it didn't hurt that I was able to attend the event live and experience the atmosphere surrounding the event. It's also debatable that Strikeforce delivered the best fight of the month with Werdum vs. Silva. UFC and WEC delivered great events but I give Strikeforce the edge solely based on the fact that I saw the event in person. My love can be bought folks.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION. I thought UFC 106 was a lot of fun, but I want to give my vote to WEC 44, mainly because it was awesome to see Jose Aldo's ascent to the top of the featherweight division and become champion. I mean, I knew Aldo was awesome, but I was still taken by surprise he was able to outstrike and break down Mike Brown so well. The opening two fights were very entertaining as well. The middle two, fairly entertaining for Garcia and Razor Rob's silliness in putting their hands down and asking to get hit when they still could've done more to win their respective fights.

SCORE: 3 for 4.



5. Josh Koscheck deserves a Welterweight title shot more than Dan Hardy.

Jeremy Lambert: FACT. In their past four fights, Dan Hardy is 4-0 while Josh Koscheck is 3-1. Three of Hardy's victories came by way of decision while Koscheck finished all three of his opponents. He had a slip up against Paulo Thiago but sometimes fighters just get caught. There's nothing to me that indicates Dan Hardy can have a competitive fight outside of his power. On the other hand, Koscheck has already had a competitive fight against GSP and he's improved since that fight, which was over two years ago. The simple solution is just to have them fight each other and settle things like that but if I have to pick just one to fight St. Pierre, I'm going with Koscheck.

Jeffrey Harris: FICTION. While I think the esteemed Lambert makes some good points, Koscheck has already fought and lost to GSP and he's been too inconsistent. Besides GSP, Koscheck has also recently lost to Paulo Thiago and Thiago Alves. Koscheck in my humble opinion needs to prove he can beat another tough guy to earn a title shot. Its one thing to say you are the #1 contender and should get a shot. But will he agree to fight Jon Fitch? Would he be willing to do even do that? And would he beat Jon Fitch? And what about Mike Swick as well? Hell, Paul Daley even. Koscheck needs I think one more strong win to prove he's not going to have another hiccup on the way to a title shot. Say what you want about Dan Hardy, but he's found a way to win every time. He beat Mike Swick who was arguably a top contender as well, a guy who lost only one fight in the UFC and that was at middleweight. So I mean, what can you do?

SCORE: 3 for 5.

6. Karo Parisyan deserved to be cut by UFC after pulling out of his UFC 106 fight.

Jeremy Lambert: FACT. Considering it was his second time he's pulled out of a fight just days before an event, yes, he deserved to be cut. It's not that he's pulled out of the fights, it's that he's had an excuse that he could have gotten help for and he lied about it. UFC could have helped him with his pain pill addiction or his nightmares but instead of going to the company early, he decided to go to them the day before his fight, give them a different reason as to why he couldn't fight, screw over the company, screw over his opponent, and screw over the fans.

Jeffrey Harris: FACT. Yes. Even following the revelations of what happened he still refused to come clean. He claimed that he had no money to pay a fine NSAC put on him for the UFC 94 violation. Then it was revealed that he was licensed and the NSAC was willing to put him on a payment plan, plus all the garbage about having over the counter tylenol in his system. Karo most likely knew he would test positive again and was looking for a way out of the fight. Like Dana White and the UFC or not, but they have been very gracious in the past in giving Karo Parysian many chances to clean up his act. He hasn't, and now he's rightfully paying the price for it.

SCORE: 4 for 6.

Jeffrey and I agree more often than not although I have a cracked skull and Jeffrey has a broken hand. We put our hearts on the line though and I hope everyone enjoyed.

Come back next week as two more MMA writers debate the latest happenings in the MMA world in 411 MMA Fact or Fiction.

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