411 MMA Rankings 12.22.09: Pound for Pound
Posted by Jonathan Solomon on 12.22.2009
When we look back at 2009, who will be recognized as the pound for pound king? Is Georges St. Pierre the man? What about Fedor Emelianenko and Anderson Silva? Does B.J. Penn deserve to be spoken of as the best in the world? Find out who the 411mania MMA staff voted for as we unveil the final P4P rankings of the year.
Welcome all and happy holidays to those who have completed your celebrations or just beginning to do so. It has been quite a year for MMA and for the most part, with the exception of Lyoto Machida, the top of this list has not changed much since 365 days ago. The best fighters in the world are not a secret. I can make a case for any one of four, five or six fighters as the best in the world as of today. Collectively, is the 411mania MMA staff wrong in their assumption? If you think so, why?
When 2009 began, many would have laughed if you said Lyoto Machida would be considered one of the best in the world by years end. If you said Jose Aldo would be the king of featherweights, I'm not sure if you would be doubted since he was kicking ass last year, too. Either way, both Machida and Aldo have added their names to the argument. Looking into the future, this time next year, which new fighters will add their name to the discussion?
B.J. Penn dominated Diego Sanchez at UFC 107 earlier this month but could he rise into the top three as a pound for pound fighter? I put him in the top three on my list. While Penn is definitely the best and most devastating 155-pound fighter, he himself was dominated back in January by Georges St. Pierre. Then again, by definition of P4P, how much should we consider from that fight since GSP had a big size advantage. If every man is the exact same size, is anyone able to take Penn down? That right there is the problems you face when you try and rank the mystical division that is P4P.
Is it sad that Urijah Faber is no longer considered one of the top P4P fighters in the world? He is 0-2 against Mike Brown and now that Brown lost the WEC belt, something had to give. Faber is trying to make a comeback and will be in action next month and he remains one of the most exciting fighters in the sport.
Here's some feedback to last week's lightweight rankings.
I love Edgar as much as the next guy, but Maynard BEAT him. Dear god it's not that hard to see that Gray should clearly be ranked over Edgar.... And Hansen ranked over both of them.
8) Hansen
9) Maynard
10) Edgar
Simple.
Posted By: Brad Enough of our staffers saw Edgar's win over Sean Sherk to mean more than Maynard defeating Edgar a year earlier.
glad to see guida finally drop off this list.. now if you guys would stop voting for cavalcante this list would be okay.
i know eddie alvarez is young and has a solid skill set, but until he beats ANYBODY i wont understand him being ranked so high. i would drop him below kawajiri.
and gray maynard may be one of the most boring fighters in the LW division, but he definitely deserves to be ranked ahead of edgar.
with the upcoming schedule of LW fights, this list could look a lot different by mid january
Posted By: buddha Clay Guida has not been a top-15 ranked fighter in quite some time. JZ definitely needs to be more active.
Alvarez has not beaten "ANYBODY?" Edgar has wins over Tatsuya Kawajiri and Joachim Hansen. I'd say those are a couple of big wins.
Aoki at #2 is a joke. His stand up is awful. He'd be ranked around 10th on this list if he were fighting in the UFC.
Hopefully Kawajiri puts an end to his hype.
The lightweights in the UFC get ranked lower despite having better skillsets. I don't see how people can watch fighters like Melendez and Maynard, and think Melendez is the better fighter.
And of course Huerta didn't even get a vote, but if he signs with Strikeforce he'll move to around 8th after his first fight against an out-matched opponent.
Posted By: KSti First of all, the Aoki/Kawajiri NYE fight may not be official. My mistake for thinking so.
Simply because a guy fights in the UFC does not mean he is automatically a better fighter than someone fighting outside the top promotion. You think Huerta deserves to be ranked. His big wins have been against Leonard Garcia and Clay Guida, both in 2007. He has not won a fight since 2007. Why should he be ranked over guys like Tyson Griffin, Sean Sherk or Josh Thomson? I'll give you the fact JZ Calvacante is ranked despite not having won a fight since 2007.
I don't understand why you think UFC lightweights are ranked lower? You think Frankie Edgar is a top 3 lightweight? Gray Maynard a top 5 lightweight? HELL NO! Gilbert Melendez is arguably the top non-UFC lightweight. He has great striking and great wrestling, who knows if he is a better fighter than Maynard? They won't be fighting anytime soon so it's who do you think is better. I think Gilbert would defeat Maynard.
The UFC lightweight division is stacked with damn good fighters but they only have a few top of the food chain type fighters (Penn and Florian for sure).
The rankings for the LW division always remind me of the days I followed wrestling and "smart" fans needing to rank trendy popular indy or Japanese wrestlers ahead of WWF/E guys. In my opinion everyone in the UFC here is underrated.
Florian is #2. Would love top see him fight Aoki. Diego is still top 5 - BJ beats EVERYONE like that at LW. Maynard and Edgar should be in the 6-7 range (how is Frankie ahead of Maynard)? Move Sherk and Griffin up and put Joe Daddy and Clay back in the rankings.
If you think I am nuts answer this - Do you really think Hansen would beat Sherk or Griffin? Also do you really think Punk Thompsen would beat Joe Daddy or Guida? I think those are pretty easy no's.
Posted By: MJH We are damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Josh Thomson would give Stevenson a heck of a fight and is a better fighter than Clay Guida. Why can't Joachim Hansen compete with Sean Sherk or Tyson Griffin? Are the UFC guys so damn good that anyone not fighting amongst them is horrible? Of course not.
This is not the light heavyweight division where besides one man, all of the elite fighters are in the UFC. The lightweight division is just as good outside the UFC, perhaps better, than it is in the promotion.
"The rankings for the LW division always remind me of the days I followed wrestling
and "smart" fans needing to rank trendy popular indy or Japanese wrestlers ahead of WWF/E guys. In my opinion everyone in the UFC here is underrated."
this is a very good point, kenny florian would finish him within the first 2 rounds
Posted By: mae Perhaps he would take care of Shinya in quick fashion. Perhaps Aoki's submissions would give Florian fits and the Bostonian would find himself tapping out. PERHAPS.
honestly with Aoki, and his fantastic gifts in grappling, if he were in the UFC i have a feeling that his ranking would be similar to dustin mclovin... i just think that the wrestlers and weight cutting would be too much for him to control. LW has the landscape wide open where a lot of the perceived top 10 varies wildly after every promotional showcase... this is the last non-monopolized weight class really...
Posted By: jon I agree with you. Shinya Aoki is one dimensional but that has not stopped him from submitting Alvarez and Hansen. I think a guy who can stay on his feet for a good chunk of time with some striking skills could beat Aoki. Does that mean a Sanchez, a Florian or a Sherk? Perhaps. But at least recently, the only time Aoki has been beaten was when he stepped up to welterweight and was massacred by Hayato Sakurai.
So if Gray beats Nate will he be the next one led to the slaughterhouse?
Posted By: A. Coolman It's certainly a possibility. Although if the next time Penn fights, it's in his native Hawaii, I doubt Gray Maynard is the challenger. In fact, I have no idea who they would book against him if they do end up in Aloha Stadium.
"Are some of you following the UFC hype train so closely that you don't think ANY of the DREAM LW's could have success in the UFC?
Few think Aoki could beat Penn. No other LW in the UFC is on Penn's level...but don't kid yourselves into thinking they couldn't do well in the UFC and that the only good fighters are in Zuffa's promotions. "
As the one who posted the original comment I must say that I wasn't saying the Dream guys wouldn't do well in the UFC, but according to these rankings outside of Penn they would dominate. Do you really think outside of Penn 4 of the next 5 best lightweights are not in the UFC? The Dream guys would run through Florian, Diego, Griffin and Edgar? I just don't see it and I watch both all MMA available.
Posted By: MJH For the record, I'll talk about the specific voting for the lightweight rankings. B.J. Penn was the unanimous top fighter, for obvious reasons. Aoki was a clear #2 although it was not unanimous. Eddie Alvarez sneaked by Kenny Florian for the #3 spot. Then there was a big drop off between #4 and #5 where Melendez took it by a hair over Tatsuya Kawjiri. Then there was another drop off with Sanchez @ #7 and only four points decided spots #7-10.
I don't think anyone believes the non-UFC lightweights would run rampant over the UFC fighters. Those would be some spectacular fights no doubt but they would be close.
Thank you for the comments, they are always much appreciated.
Pound for Pound Rankings from Last Year (12/30/2008)
1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. BJ Penn
5. Miguel Torres
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Urijah Faber
8. Rashad Evans
9. Kid Yamamoto
10. Rampage Jackson
11. Eddie Alvarez
12. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
13. Kenny Florian
14. Forrest Griffin
15. Shogun Rua
THE CREW
The 411 MMA staff has decided to pull back the curtain and reveal the great 411 Oz. After some consideration, for the the first time in the soon-to-be two-year history of 411 MMA Rankings that you will be able to see which knucklehead put which fighter where.
So here are the nuts and bolts, the breakdown of the rankings from your favorite 411 MMA personalities:
Scott Kuczkowski
1. Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. BJ Penn
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Jose Aldo
7. Gegard Mousasi
8. Shogun
9. Dan Henderson
10. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
11. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
12. Kenny Florian
13. Brian Bowles
14. Jake Shields
15. Mike Brown
Samer Kadi
1-Anderson Silva
2-GSP
3-Fedor
4-BJ Penn
5-Lyoto Machida
6-Jose Aldo
7-Shogun Rua
8-Quinton Jackson
9-Brian Bowles
10-Miguel Torres
11-Mike Brown
12-Urijah Faber
13-Rashad Evans
14-Gegard Mousasi
15-Dan Henderson
Daniel Bonnizzio
1) King Georges
2) Anderson Silva
3) Fedor
4) Lyoto Machida
5) BJ Penn
6) Shogun Rua
7) Dan Henderson
8) Jose Aldo
9) Gegard Mousasi
10) Jon Fitch
11) Brian Bowles
12) Jake Shields
13) Mike Brown
14) Miguel Torres
15) Rashad Evans
Jeffrey Harris
1. GSP
2. Anderson Silva
3. BJ Penn
4. Fedor Emelianenko
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Jose Aldo
7. Shogun
8. Dan Henderson
9. Mousasi
10. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
11. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
12. Jake Shields
13. Brian Bowles
14. Mike Brown
15. Urijah Faber
Larry Csonka
1. Anderson Silva
2. GSP
3. Fedor Emelianenko
4. BJ Penn
5. Lyoto Machida
6. Jose Aldo
7. Gegard Mousasi
8. Dan Henderson
9. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
10. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
11. Shogun
12. Kenny Florian
13. Brian Bowles
14. Jake Shields
15. Mike Brown
Jonathan Solomon
1. Anderson Silva
2. Fedor Emelianenko
3. B.J. Penn
4. Georges St. Pierre
5. Jose Aldo
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Big Nog
8. Gegard Mousasi
9. Shogun Rua
10. Miguel Torres
11. Dan Henderson
12. Rashad Evans
13. Mike Brown
14. Jon Fitch
15. Urijah Faber
411's MMA Ranking Rules
- If a fighter hasn't fought in a year, he can not be ranked. It's not fair to people who are fighting to not be ranked because a fighter is taking a year off. The rule also applies to specific divisions. If a fighter hasn't fought in a weight division in a year he is no longer eligible to be ranked. However, if a fighter schedules a fight he is still eligible for being ranked.
- If a fighter appears on just one single ballot, and in the top ten, five points shall be deducted to balance out between other fighters who may have been ranked lower, but appeared on more total ballots.
- If you wish to complain about a fighter's ranking in the comments section, then please include an objective reason as to why you don't like the ranking, and remember "if u rite lik thiss" then your opinion doesn't matter.
- 411's MMA Rankings are voted on by the MMA staff of 411mania. So if you are an MMA fighter and hate where you are ranked, beating just me up would be unnecessary. You would have to beat us all up, and when we are all together.....we are not dangerous at all, I won't lie to you.
* denotes a statistical tie
411's MMA Rankings
Pound For Pound
1) Anderson Silva (25-4)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: April 14, 1975
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Win via KO - UFC 101: Declaration - August 8, 2009
- vs. Thales Leites - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 17, 2009
- vs. Patrick Cote - Win via TKO (injured knee) - UFC 90: Silva vs. Cote - October 25, 2008
- vs. James Irvin - Win via KO (punches) - UFC: Fight Night 14 - July 19, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- Unknown
2) Georges St. Pierre (19-2)
Height: 5'10
Birthday: May 19, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Thiago Alves - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
- vs. BJ Penn - Win via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Jon Fitch - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 87: Seek And Destroy - August 9, 2008
- vs. Matt Serra - Win via TKO (knees to body) - UFC 83: Serra vs. St. Pierre II - April 19, 2008
- vs. Matt Hughes - Win via verbal submission (arm bar) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Dan Hardy - UFC 111 - March 27, 2010
3) Fedor Emelianenko (30-1)
Height: 6'0
Birthday: September 28, 1976
Currently fighting with: Strikeforce
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Brett Rogers - Win via KO (punch) - Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers - November 7, 2009
- vs. Andrei Arlovski - Win via KO (punch) - Affliction: Day Of Reckoning - January 24, 2009
- vs. Tim Sylvia - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - Affliction: Banned - July 19, 2008
- vs. Hong Man Choi - Win via submission (arm bar) - Yarennoka - New Year's Eve 2007 - December 31, 2007
- vs. Matt Lindland - Win via submission (arm bar) - BodogFight: Clash of the Nations - April 14, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Fabricio Werdum - Strikeforce on CBS - April 2010 (Rumored Fight)
4) B.J. Penn (15-5-1)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: December 13, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Diego Sanchez - Win via TKO (cuts) - UFC 107: Penn vs. Sanchez - December 12, 2009
- vs. Kenny Florian - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 101: Declaration - August 8, 2009
- vs. Georges St. Pierre - Loss via TKO (corner stoppage) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Sean Sherk - Win via TKO (knees and punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Joe Stevenson - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 80: Rapid Fire - January 19, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- Unknown
5) Lyoto Machida (16-0)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: May 3, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Shogun Rua - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 104: Machida vs. Shogun - October 24, 2009
- vs. Rashad Evans - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 98: Evans vs. Machida - May 23, 2009
- vs. Thiago Silva - Win via KO (punches) - UFC 94: St. Pierre vs. Penn 2 - January 31, 2009
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Win via submission (arm triangle choke) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Shogun Rua - UFC 113 - May 1, 2010
6) Jose Aldo (16-1)
Height: 5'7
Birthday: September 9, 1986
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Mike Brown - Win via TKO (strikes) - WEC 44: Brown vs. Aldo - November 18, 2009
- vs. Cub Swanson - Win via TKO (flying knee) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber II - June 7, 2009
- vs. Chris Mickle - Win via TKO (strikes) - WEC 39: Brown vs. Garcia - March 1, 2009
- vs. Ronaldo Perez - Win via TKO (strikes) - WEC 38: Varner vs. Cerrone - January 25, 2009
- vs. Jonathan Brookins - Win via TKO (strikes) - WEC 36: Faber vs. Brown - November 5, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- Unknown
7) Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (18-4)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: November 25, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 104: Dragon vs. Shogun - October 24, 2009
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 97: Redemption - April 18, 2009
- vs. Mark Coleman - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Alistair Overeem - Win via KO (strikes) - PRIDE 33: Second Coming - February 24, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - UFC 113 - May 1, 2010
8) Gegard Mousasi (30-2-1)
Height: 6'0
Birthday: August 1, 1985
Currently Fighting With: DREAM and Strikeforce
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Sokoudjou - Win via TKO (strikes) - Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers - November 7, 2009
- vs. Babalu Sobral - Win via KO (strikes) - Strikeforce: Carano vs. Cyborg - August 15, 2009
- vs. Mark Hunt - Win via submission (kimura) - DREAM 9: Featherweight Grand Prix 2009 Second Round - May 26, 2009
- vs. Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza - Win via KO (upkick) - DREAM 6: Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 - September 23, 2008
- vs. Melvin Manhoef - Win via submission (triangle choke) - DREAM 6: Middleweight Grand Prix 2008 - September 23, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- Unknown
9) Dan Henderson (25-7)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: August 24, 1970
Currently Fighting With: Strikeforce
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via KTFO (punch of doom) - UFC 100 - July 11, 2009
- vs. Rich Franklin - Win via decision (split) - UFC 93: Franklin vs. Henderson - January 17, 2009
- vs. Rousimar Palhares - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
- vs. Anderson Silva - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 82: Pride of a Champion - March 1, 2008
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Jake Shields - Strikeforce on CBS - April 2010 (rumored fight)
10) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (32-5-1)
Height: 6'3
Birthday: June 2, 1976
Currently fighting with: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Randy Couture - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 102: Couture vs. Nogueira - August 29, 2009
- vs. Frank Mir - Loss via TKO (punches) - UFC 92: Ultimate 2008 - December 27, 2008
- vs. Tim Sylvia - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - UFC 81: Breaking Point - February 2, 2008
- vs. Heath Herring - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7th, 2007
- vs. Josh Barnett - Win via decision (unanimous) - PRIDE - Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Cain Velasquez - UFC 110: Nogueira vs. Velasquez - February 21, 2010
11) Brian Bowles (8-0)
Height: 5'7
Birthday: June 22, 1980
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Miguel Torres - Win via KO - WEC 42 - August 9, 2009
- vs. Will Ribeiro - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 37 - December 3, 2008
- vs. Damacio Page - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 35 - August 3, 2008
- vs. Marcos Galvao - Win via KO - WEC 31 - December 12, 2007
- vs. Charlie Valencia - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - WEC 28 - June 3, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Dominick Cruz - WEC 47 - March 6, 2010
12) Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (18-3)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: June 2, 1976
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Luiz Cane - Win via KO - UFC 106 - November 21, 2009
- vs. Dion Staring - Win via submission (triangle choke) - Jungle Fight: Ceara - May 9, 2009
- vs. Vladimir Matyushenko - Win via TKO (strikes) - Affliction: Day of Reckoning - January 24, 2009
- vs. Moise Rimbon - Win via decision (unanimous) - Sengoku 6 - November 1, 2008
- vs. Edwin Dewees - Win via TKO (punches) - Affliction: Banned - July 19, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- Injured
13) Mike Brown (22-5)
Height: 5'6"
Birthday: September 8, 1975
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Jose Aldo - Loss via TKO (strikes) - WEC 44: Brown vs. Aldo - November 18, 2009
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 41: Brown vs. Faber 2 - June 7, 2009
- vs. Leonard Garcia - Win by submission (arm & triangle choke) - WEC 39 - March 1, 2009
- vs. Urijah Faber - Win by TKO (punches) - WEC 36 - November 5, 2008
- vs. Jeff Curran - Win by decision (unanimous) - WEC 34 - June 1, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Anthony Morrison - WEC 46 - January 10, 2010
14) Miguel Torres (36-2)
Height: 5'9
Birthday: January 18, 1981
Currently Fighting With: WEC
Last 5 Fights:
- vs. Brian Bowles - Loss via KO - WEC 42: Torres vs. Bowles - August 9, 2009
- vs. Takeya Mizugaki - Win via decision (unanimous) - WEC 40: Torres vs. Mizugaki - April 5, 2009
- vs. Manny Tapia - Win via TKO (punches and elbows) - WEC 37: Torres vs. Tapia - December 3, 2008
- vs. Yoshiro Maeda - Win via TKO (doctor stoppage) - WEC 34: Sacramento - June 1, 2008
- vs. Chase Beebe - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - WEC 32: Albuquerque - February 13, 2008
Next scheduled appearance:
- TBA - WEC 47 - March 6, 2010
15) Jake Shields (24-4-1)
Height: 5'11
Birthday: January 9, 1979
Currently Fighting With: Strikeforce
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Jason Miller - Win via decision (unanimous) - Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Rogers - November 7, 2009
- vs. Robbie Lawler - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - Strikeforce on Showtime - June 6, 2009
- vs. Paul Daley - Win via submission (armbar) - EliteXC "Heat" - October 4, 2008
- vs. Nick Thompson - Win via submission (guillotine choke) - EliteXC: Unfinished Business - July 26, 2008
- vs. Mike Pyle - Win via submission (rear naked choke) - EliteXC: Renegade - November 10, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Dan Henderson - Strikeforce on CBS - April 2010 (rumored fight)
Closing Comments: Others receiving votes include Quinton Jackson, Rashad Evans, Jon Fitch, Kenny Florian and Urijah Faber.
Posted By: KillaSham (Guest) on December 21, 2009 at 10:40 PM
i'm sorry, but Jake Shields hasn't beat any top-10 fighters ever. how does beating top-20 guys earn you the #15 spot on the P4P ranking?
Posted By: dale (Guest) on December 21, 2009 at 11:00 PM
I kept going down, it was PERFECT, I mean dead set what I have for 1-14 .... Then number 15 came up and I laughed.
Shields OVER... Faber, Florian, Aoki (who I don't even like but the consensus #2 Lightweight in the world), Alvarez, Fitch, Alves, Nate the Great, Nick Diaz, Vitor, Rampage and Evans. You have to be kidding me.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on December 21, 2009 at 11:12 PM
jake shield?
LMAO!
Posted By: ,,,,,, (Guest) on December 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM
Where's Mir?? He did get a TKO over Nog. Who cares if he's a douche, he can f'n fight. Good lists, it's nice to get a dabate going.
Posted By: jorge cantaloupe santiago jr. (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 12:39 AM
Man Fedor should be number 1.
Posted By: Scottyieoittie (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 01:00 AM
This list is RETARDED. Big Nog is on the list? He lost to Mir one fight ago. And GSP isn't number 1? He beat your number 4 ranked p4p fighter. This list makes no sense
Posted By: Guest#7087 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 01:03 AM
Well since most of the people who've commented so far dissaprove of Shields being ranked in the P4P rankings, I'll just say this now: do your homework.
-The man is ranked at WW and MW
-He has held 4 titles in 4 different companies and the only belt he ever lost was the Shooto belt
-He is undefeated since 2004 and I guess Carlos Condit, Paul Daley, Robbie Lawler and Mayhem Miller aren't good competition huh?
-How bout Hayato Sakurai, Charuto Verissiom, Yushin Okami or Dave Menne?
There is a reason this man is included in the P4P rankings and it's simple, he's one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world?
Posted By: SedlockIHCC (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:07 AM
Fedor should be number 1. I hear are the talk of he's not in the UFC no challenges BLAH BLAH but the fact is even the get caught with a punch from time to time. Just ask GSP oh but what Fedor never has.
Posted By: pikey(guest) (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:21 AM
This list is RETARDED. Big Nog is on the list? He lost to Mir one fight ago. And GSP isn't number 1? He beat your number 4 ranked p4p fighter. This list makes no sense
As Long as The Spider fights, GSP will never be #1
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:21 AM
no love for brock lesnar?
Posted By: KillaSham (Guest) on December 21, 2009 at 10:40 PM
_________________________________________________________
Nope. For some reason, the 'rules' assume that everyone is the same size/ weight and who would win based on skill alone.... and completely ignore that Brock's extreme size and weight ARE a skill.
But then, if it weren't for his size and strength, Lesner would never have been able to take Mir down, completely immobilize him, while still leaving one of his own arms free to rain down hammer fists (twice) until Frank was a bloody pulp. Since it was obviously just his extra weight... no actual skill is needed to do that to a BJJ black belt.
Of course, if everyone was the same size, would GSP still be as good as he is- without his obvious weight advantage over his class? ...or Anderson Silva for that matter?
P4P should assume everyone is within the same weight class... not the same size. If a fighter is able to come into a fight bigger and stronger then his opponents - and still be within the set limits, that shouldn't be discounted here.
Even if you were to discount his weight advantage though, he'd still be stronger, faster, and a better wrestler then almost anyone else on this list.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:35 AM
You must be smoking monkey poll if you put Jake Shields in at 15 over Brock,fitch,Bisping,maynard, or even Kimbo would fit 15 better than Jake fucking Fake shields.
Posted By: chewb (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:36 AM
Wow, a bunch of interesting choices... no love for Mir? but love for Big Nog?
Hmmm interesting choices, but Silva has to be #1 with his dominance over two divisions ... If only Shogun had won, we could see him go after dual beltage.
Posted By: DoctorOfStyle (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:05 AM
Crap list is crap.
Posted By: Guest#6420 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:13 AM
I dont get how shogun is below macheater,when shogun beat him.
Posted By: Showster (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:19 AM
The problem with this whole "Pound for pound" thing that everyone loves to throw around is that it means absolutely nothing until you find a shrink ray that can shrink GSP down to Baby Jay's size. I mean, really, you're arguing over abstracts here - none of this can really be proven.
Posted By: mike34ism (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 04:11 AM
nice list guys. i pretty much agree with it all. i would jus switch Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and Dan Henderson
Posted By: i know best ;) (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 04:34 AM
BJ Penn should be 3#, with Fedor at 4#. Fedor got taken down and ground n pounded by Brett Rogers who is at best a mid-level fighter. Rogers arguably even won the round! Can anyone really see that happening to Penn at the hands of someone other than GSP and at 155?! That would be the equivilant of a Joe Stevenson putting a beating on Penn and that is giving Rogers A LOT of credit as Joe is a great fighter. I know Fedor has had some great fights but he needs to step up his level of competition.
Posted By: bob-o (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 08:08 AM
This is actually a very good list. People can complain about Shields all they want, the fact of the matter is that he hasn't lost in over 4 years and has beaten solid opponents like Lawler, Mayhem and Semtex in 2 weight classes.
Posted By: Diavo (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:00 AM
Interesting how there's one UFC heavyweight on the list and it's *NOT* the champion.
Especially when the guy on the list had the same opportunity to win the title as the current champ.
I'm just saying.
Posted By: Ryan (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:15 AM
Shields - Hasn't beaten a top 10 at any weight
Mousasi - Hasn't beaten a top 10 at any weight
Little Nog and Mousasi up there with Rashad not on it makes no sense.
Big Nog without Mir, also no sense. He just got finished by Mir. How does beating a man who needs a walker to get to the cage make him the 10th best pound for pound.
But my favorite part of this list is how Henderson, without fighting, moves up five spots from last month just by signing with Strikeforce. Proves the point that was so adamantly denied that UFC fighters get ranked lower for simply being in the UFC despite the fact they fight better competition in there.
Posted By: KSti (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:56 AM
Where's Faber and Brock? Shogun is there but not either of those guys? I just don't get it.
Posted By: King Durin (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 10:58 AM
as many times as i look through this list i cant see brock.hed murder just about everybody
Posted By: Guest#5637 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 11:38 AM
Gotta love that :
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via KTFO (punch of doom)
Anyway. Great list. Thanks Jeffrey Harris for having the cojones to put Fedor down to #4. My memory is a little foggy, but....wasn't The Natural ranked on this last time? If he was, nice job booting him off. Much like Liddell, his time has come - and gone
Posted By: GeeSpotter (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 11:46 AM
GSP is way to high, please don't forget he's a greezy cheata....
and please for the love of everything (anything) stop mentioning him fighting Anderson Silva, never going to happen. GSP would get slaughtered, even he knows that...
Posted By: phil (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 01:03 PM
Shields shouldn't be anywhere near this list. He hasn't fought anyone. Shouldn't quality of opposition count for something? If so get Fedor down the list. He hasn't beaten anyone.
Everyone always said back in Pride Days that their heavyweight division wasn't nothing, so Fedor beats the top 2 guys from that time period, and he still the man? No he hasn't beaten anyone of note is quite awhile. And where the freak is Mir?
Also Mousasi isn't nothing. Look at the trouble he had with his last fight.
This list is busted.
Posted By: Jeremy (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:03 PM
Pound for pound? GSP will pound you with his groin!
Posted By: GSP's Trainer (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 02:28 PM
The list is a joke. Really is, why the hell is A silva number one. His only impressive victories are Franklin twice, an out of shape Hendo and an undercooked Nate Maurdquart. Griffin had a long layoff going into there fight and was coming off a loss. The rest are decent fighters, Cote, Lutter, Irvin, Leites ect. How is this guy number one.
GSP should be one, enough of this greasing nonsense it was taken off clearly and he doesn't need to oliberate BJ Penn. He has faced by far the toughest opponents and beat all of them with ease, destroyed Fitch, Demolished BJ and easily beat Alves. Before he destoryed Serra and outclassed Hughes and Kos. Then you look at some of his earlier wins and they include Mayhem, Hughes, BJ, Hieron ect. His list of beaten opponents is incredible. He has two losses, one fluke KO against Serra when he was going through a lot of problems and one against an all time great when he was 23. Silva has 4 losses against all average fighters.
Fedor should be two, his level of competition isn't as good as GSP but he still has some good wins, and hasn't lost in so long. Above Silva.
Why is Aldo so high and Bowles so low? Torres is a better fighter than MTB you would think Bowles would at least be close to Aldo. Where the hell is Aoki as well? I don't like him at all but you would think being the 2nd ranked fighter in the most stacked division would give you a place on the top 15 P4P. Mousasi is not a top 10 P4P fighter yet, his level of competition is good not great. Hendo should certainly be above him. He will be there soon but not top 10 yet. Shields is fine at 15, he is a top 5 WW/MW so thats fine but Lil Nog isn't top 15. Aoki really needs to be in.
Other than that good list
Posted By: Wtf???? (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:10 PM
fedor by right of way should be on top
silva gsp is arguable either way
brock lesnar has to be on this list
Shogun? really he lost to forrest griffin whos a good brawler but can be beaten easily and CLEARLY LOST TO MACHIDA it doesnt matter yeah he through about 300 strikes but hit about 3
Posted By: Guest#6671 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:30 PM
woot BJ is at number in top 4 where he belongs.. but i think he should be 3 and fedor should be 4..
honestly out of the top 4, FEDOR as of his pass 2 fights has been TAKING WAY TO MUCH PUNISHMENT and holy wins by a hail mary right hand.. technical or not? its not as impressive dominants like SILVA, GSP, and BJ in their last fights..
silv, gsp, and BJ look like gods compared to their division,.. fedor might be but he sure looks defeatable 90% of the fight ..
so ya, i'd drop him down to 4 just on the mere fact that his last two fights weren't as impressive as the other top 3, but im not knockin on his pass achievments but hey these things get updated for a reason right?
Posted By: wylun (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 03:58 PM
what the hell is wrong with this list, the nogueria bros???? Jake Shields??? Even Mousassi is questionable.... and y isnt Rampage or Rashad on this list?
Posted By: RP (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 04:08 PM
Brock shouldn't touch this list for several reasons:
1. He's only had 5 fights, one of which is a loss...hardly a legacy
2. He hasn't, other than Mir twice, fought a top 5 ranked Heavyweight, therefore making his other fights appear to be tomato cans (you are all high if you think Couture had even a slight shot against Brock)
3. A lot of these fighters fight at different weight classes and destroy their opponents (the reason why Jake Shields is on the list...I mean fuck, the guy has won his last, what, 13 fights? That's pretty impressive)
4. Why would they freshly rank someone who'd not even going to be active for the forseeable future?
The rankings are fine...what really fails are the morons in the comments section.
Posted By: Ramsey (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 05:33 PM
Could you not even be bothered to do short write-ups for the fighters?
Posted By: Guest#1411 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 06:22 PM
Didn't Rampage beat Hendu?
Arguing about the top 4 seems silly - they all of dominated their weigt classes for some time now. To me GSP should be #4 because he lost in his weight class most recently. And I know he crushed BJ - but in reality they weren't and aren't the same size.
After that things get interesting. I think Rampage,Rashad and Florian got disrespected and should be ranked.
Shogun, Mousasi, Hendu and the Nog's are ranked too high.
Shields shouldn't be ranked. Yes he has won 13 fights in a row. But against whom that is considered top competition? Condit, Lawler and Okami are good fighters - but no where near elite. Jon Fitch destroys Shields. No doubt in my mind. Remember Brock Larson's win streak? No one was clamoring for him to be ranked. Well, maybe Csonka.....
Posted By: MJH (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 07:46 PM
top 4 are correct...fedor can be higher he just needs to get his As s in the ufc to prove himself... machida blows and is only ranked so high because owns a ufc belt,the only belt up for grabs in the ufc btw(shouldn't even own it) Sheilds will fall right off this list after he meets the punch of doom, big nog no doubt one of the greastest fighters of all time...but not one of the greatest right now and you will all see that after he looses to cain. no mir? crazy. no brock? f'n crazy. now back to fedor... some of other ppls comments shocked me. fought no1? arlovski may not be the same arlovski but still amazing and hung man choi or w.e his name is.... how many ufc heavey weights could beat that huge mutha...
w.e tho your list not mine...decent....besides sheilds SOOOO GAY
Posted By: MikeyH (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:17 PM
To me GSP should be #4 because he lost in his weight class most recently. And I know he crushed BJ - but in reality they weren't and aren't the same size.
Posted By: MJH (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 07:46 PM
______________________________________________________
You're right... at weigh-ins, GSP was a whole 2 lbs heavier then Penn.
They had the same exact timeframes and limits to gain/ lose weight.
Penn had 8 months to prepare for that fight. He came in to fight as a WW and got schooled. Any size difference was BJ's fault and should be counted against him- not GSP.
Posted By: Guest#1233 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:56 PM
You're right... at weigh-ins, GSP was a whole 2 lbs heavier then Penn.
They had the same exact timeframes and limits to gain/ lose weight.
Penn had 8 months to prepare for that fight. He came in to fight as a WW and got schooled. Any size difference was BJ's fault and should be counted against him- not GSP.
Posted By: Guest#1233 (Guest) on December 22, 2009 at 09:56 PM
Weighing the same does make you the same size. If GSP gained 90 lbs and challenged Brock Lesnar would he be the same size. GSP is a natural 170 pounder. Bj is a natural 155 pounder. If GSP every goes up and fights the Spider and gets killed I will say the same thing. That's what makes Silva tooling a guy who beat Rampage and Shogun so impressive.
Posted By: MJH (Guest) on December 23, 2009 at 11:22 PM
Get Silva out of #1. Hendo is the only top level fighter Silva has beat on that list. Griffin is so fucking overrated. The only thing Silva has done in the past year is go up a division and beat average fighters. Yes he's facing bigger people, but if Fedor changed divisions it wouldn't mean anything to anyone. Going up and he's facing "freakshows", going down and he's facing smaller people. Changing weight divisions shouldn't be considered a big thing unless you face the best the division has to offer. Once Silva faces Shogun, Rampage or even Rashad I'll care about what he did in LHW.
GSP or Fedor should be #1. GSP has dominated good fighters(and the #4 P4P fighter), and Fedor hasn't lost in years(or ever really, the cut loss is BS as an only loss) and finishes opponents standing or on the ground.
Posted By: 420 (Guest) on December 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM
