411 MMA Fact or Fiction 07.07.10: Lesnar Top Heavyweight, UFC 116 Top Event, Shields in UFC & MORE!
Posted by Jeremy Lambert on 07.07.2010
Is Brock Lesnar the best Heavyweight in the world? Was UFC 116 the best event of the year thus far? Would you favor Quinton Jackson to defeat Rogerio Nogueira? 411's Scott Kuczkowski and Samer Kadi debate these topics and more in this week's edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!
UFC 116 is in the books and there is plenty to talk about given the events of the past few weeks.
To look back at UFC 116 and look ahead to potential UFC battles, we have the man who always gives us the best View From The Cheap Seats, we affectionately call him "Kuch", please welcome Scott Kuczkowski. His opponent has been dubbed "The Professor", he has the best Rear Naked Column in the industry, he is Samer Kadi.
In the words of John McCarthy…LET'S GET IT ON!
1. Brock Lesnar is the best Heavyweight in the world.
Scott KuczkowskiFACT. Well, he's at the top of my Heavyweight rankings, but that's just my opinion. Fedor was a mainstay at the top of the list, but he lost his last fight, so naturally he drops a little. Fabricio Werdum defeated Fedor, which is certainly a feat in itself, but Werdum is also hit and miss, so while I'm willing to give him a spot at the top, I won't put him at the very top. Brock defeated a legitimate top contender Saturday night and demonstrated that he can submit opponents as well as punch them senseless. I will concede that Brock doesn't have as many impressive wins as Fedor and he doesn't have as many fights as Fabricio Werdum, but given his performance Saturday night, I have no issues listing him as #1 until something else shakes up the rankings.
Samer Kadi:FACT. I don't think Brock Lesnar is the most skilled heavyweight on the planet. I also have my theories about how his next fight with Cain Velasquez would go (more on that in tomorrow's column). However, as someone who has always argued that results are all that counts rather than hypothetical discussions, I'd be a hypocrite if I said Lesnar isn't the best heavyweight in the world. Like Scott, I currently have Lesnar as the number one ranked heavyweight in the world. And while you could argue that being ranked number one doesn't necessarily imply that you are "the best", I think results are what matters the most. Right now, Brock is the number one ranked heavyweight in the world and the UFC heavyweight champion, it would be hard not to call him the best heavyweight, even though he's not necessarily the most skilled in my opinion.
SCORE:1 for 1
2. Jake Shields is better off the in the UFC Middleweight division as opposed to the UFC Welterweight division.
Scott KuczkowskiFICTION. I think the Middleweight division provides some interesting matchups for Shields such as Marquardt, Maia, and possibly Sonnen, but I think his size and build make him better suited for Welterweight. Would I like to see him against Anderson Silva? Sure, but I don't think it should be his first fight in the promotion. There are probably 3 or 4 decent matchups for Shields as a Middleweight, but I think fans would rather see him square off against GSP, Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, and some of the other killers at 170. I will say this though; if Anderson Silva makes a permanent move up to Light Heavyweight after he fights Sonnen, then I think Shields should stay at Middleweight and go after the title (which I think he could win and hold).
Samer Kadi:FICTION. Jake Shields has repeatedly gone on the record saying he feels much more comfortable fighting at 170, and that alone makes me think he needs to be in the welterweight division. Ultimately, the fighter's comfort level, happiness and state of mind are the most important aspects, so if Shields prefers to fight at welterweight, he should. I also think Shields' frame is better suited for the 170 lbs weight-class. More than that, Georges St. Pierre is in desperate need for contenders (should he get past Koscheck). And while the same could be said for Anderson Silva, he at least has Vitor Belfort to fight still. In addition, like Scott said, there are more intriguing match ups for Shields at 170 against the likes of Koscheck, Fitch or Alves. I personally don't think Shields would necessarily do well in all of those fights, but they remain bouts I would love to see.
SCORE:2 for 2
3. Should they fight, you favor Quinton Jackson to beat Rogerio Nogueira.
Scott KuczkowskiFACT. Little Nog looked like shit against Jason Brilz, which makes me think he's losing steam on pace with Big Nog. Maybe Little Nog wasn't expecting so much fight out of Brilz or maybe he was just thrown off by the change in opponent, but I wasn't impressed in his last outing. Rampage didn't look amazing against Rashad Evans either, but I think he showed he still has the power in his hands to put people to sleep. While Little Nog is great on the ground, I don't see him holding down or submitting Rampage. If they fight, I think it would just be a matter of time before Rampage landed some big shots and got the TKO victory.
Samer Kadi:FACT. I don't think Rogerio Nogueira is the killer that some people thought he was after the Luiz Cane bout. I don't necessarily agree with Scott that Rogerio is heading the Big Nog road in terms of his body breaking down. In fact, Rogerio is no stranger to lackluster performances. Look no further than his bouts with Moise Rimbon, Kazuhiro Nakamura or Alex Stiebling. However, the fact remains he is one of the top light-heavyweights in the world, and that alone makes him a threat for the ever unreliable Quinton Jackson. With that said, I think people are too down on Rampage after the Rashad Evans fight while forgetting that ring rust undoubtedly played a factor. Match up wise, I don't think Rogerio would be able to get Rampage to the ground and while Little Nog's boxing is pretty crisp, Rampage's chin will hold up, and his power will be problematic for the very hittable Nogueira.
SCORE:3 for 3
Video Intermission
4. UFC 116 is the event of the year thus far.
Samer Kadi:FACT. I think it was most certainly the best UFC event of the year. The one non-UFC show that would give it a run for its money would be WEC 48, which was a stellar card top to bottom and one that delivered in a major way. The undercard on UFC 116 may not have been the most stacked, but every fight was an exciting one. The prelims on Spike featured an entertaining (albeit amateurish) fight between Seth Petruzelli and Ricardo Romero, a good showing for Brendan Schaub and a KO of the year contender by Gerald Harris. George Sotiropoulos turned in yet another impressive performance in a back-and-forth battle with Kurt Pellegrino, Chris Lytle had his usual exciting fight, Stephan Bonnar returned to his winning ways in a trademark slugfest, and Yoshihiro Akiyama and Chris Leben had a fight of the year contender. Every show lives and dies by its main event, and the awaited Brock Lesnar-Shane Carwin heavyweight title fight delivered emphatically. In fact, it was one of the better heavyweight fights in recent memory, with Brock Lesnar rallying back after surviving a huge first round onslaught to submit Shane Carwin in the second round. The fight couldn't have unfolded in a better way for the UFC, and it guaranteed that the show will be remembered come the end of the year.
Scott KuczkowskiFACT. Like Samer said, the undercard wasn't the most stacked the fans have ever seen, but all the fights delivered. The Leben/Akiyama fight was probably one of the most exciting bouts seen on a UFC PPV in quite a while and Leben winning via triangle choke was about an unlikely as anyone could have predicted. George Sotiropoulos showed everyone why he deserves to be in the title hunt and Stephan Bonnar got back on the winning track. The Lesnar/Carwin bout was so good, it could have been scripted in a movie, with Brock losing the first round (badly) and rallying in the second to pull off his first submission victory. I can't think of any other event this year that came even close to UFC 116.
SCORE:4 for 4
5. Rashad Evans is smart to wait until 2011 to fight "Shogun" Rua.
Samer Kadi:FACT. On one hand, you could argue that it wouldn't be a good idea for Rashad to stay on the shelf for ten months. However, there simply is too much for Evans to risk. Right now, he is the number 1 contender and is scheduled to take on "Shogun" when the champion heals up and is ready to return. The light-heavyweight division is one of the deepest and most stacked divisions in the UFC. Rashad would be risking too much if he were to take a fight, especially as it would be a title eliminator scenario with the winner taking on Shogun. Meaning that he would obviously square off against one of the top fighters in the division. What happens if Rashad takes on Lyoto Machida with the winner getting a crack at Shogun? Of course, it would be a great opportunity for Rashad to avenge his lone career loss but there is a big possibility that he would lose again. Having a fighter's mentality, he might be tempted to take the risk, especially as it would allow him to remain active. However, with the Rampage fight taking such a physical and emotional effect on Rashad (not necessarily in the way the fight unfolded, but rather in the training camp leading up to it), it might not be such a bad idea for Rashad to take some time off.
Scott KuczkowskiFICTION. I always think sitting out for an undetermined amount of time is a bad idea. I get that Rashad doesn't want to lose his #1 contender spot, but the fact is that the rest of the contenders are getting the opportunity to rack up (possibly impressive) wins while he waits for a title shot, and history has shown that a #1 contender in the UFC doesn't have to lose a fight in order to lose their #1 contender status. Given that there is no scheduled return date for Shogun, Rashad might be best served taking a fight in the meantime. Staying active and remaining relevant to the fans is almost as important as staying undefeated. Sitting out and waiting for Shogun to return could actually hinder Evans if he's out of sight and out of the minds of the fans.
SCORE:4 for 5
6. Werdum submitting Fedor was more shocking than Lesnar submitting Carwin.
Samer Kadi:FACT. Easily. While very few predicted a submission win for Brock, he was the favorite coming in. Carwin's submission defense was largely untested as was his cardio. Therefore, Brock submitting a tired Shane Carwin was not THAT far-fetched, if slightly unlikely. On the other hand, Werdum was a huge underdog coming into the Fedor fight. Emelianenko had previously showed tremendous grappling abilities and great submission defense as he easily dominated the likes of Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira on the ground. To be fair, Werdum is arguably the most decorated BJJ practitioner in the heavyweight division, but the fact is, nobody saw him catching the Great Russian in a submission, especially from the bottom.
Scott KuczkowskiFICTION. This one was tough for me. I never figured Werdum would knock out Fedor, go for the TKO, or even try to outlast him for the decision victory, so going for the submission win was really his best option. Of course, Fedor's credentials on the ground are stellar too. Did I think he would get it off his back? Well, I thought the odds were unlikely given Noguiera's inability to submit Fedor off his back. The truth is that if Werdum was going to win this fight, it was going to have to come via submission, which it did. I figured Brock's strategy in this fight would be to take Carwin into the second round. This would be the simplest strategy for anyone facing an opponent who hasn't ever been out of the first round. I figured Brock would pound out Carwin in the second for the TKO victory, as Brock hasn't ever attempted a submission and Carwin hasn't ever been threatened by one, so I figured there were too many unknowns for it to be tried. The fact that Brock took the mount, sunk in the side choke and transitioned to Carwin's left side to cinch it in demonstrated a level of jiu-jitsu that no one had seen from Brock up until this point. Given that I expected him to pound Carwin out, this was a little more shocking to me than Werdum submitting Fedor.
SCORE:4 for 6
Scott and Samer got off to an agreeable start but things finally got heated towards the end.
Come back next week as tow more 411 writers debate the latest MMA news only at 411 MMA Fact or Fiction.
I saw the 1st round Lesnar v. Carwin and it appeared that Lesnar was covering up and the ref let it go. I have to say that Lesnar did not do a thing except cover up. But he submitted him which was kind of sweet considering he is a powerful striker. Did not see a submission out of Lesnar, good win though. Cain is next!
Posted By: Guest#8343 (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:07 PM
While I agree with Jake at 170 your missing the point. It's like Dan Henderson in the ufc in his debue with Rampage. It's a free roll. If he loses he suppose to. If he wins, he's the man. He can always drop if he gets creamed at 170. I think it's a good idea, hell it can't hurt (well save a beating).
As for Jackson I'm always a sucker for good crisp clean boxing. you act as if Rampage looked amazing in his last fight. Rampage using all of his tools could beat lil Nog. Only Rampage only strikes these days despite being a damn good wrestler. I give lil nog the advantage for no other reason he'll use all his talent to win and Rampage handicaps himself. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE's this!
Should Rashad sit out? Sure if Dana lets him. It's in a fighters best interest to be in as many main events as possible. If nothing else it'll make Dana have to offer more for him to take a fight ahead of time.
Werdum or Fedor more shocking? I would said Leben getting the sub was as huge of a shock as either of these. I understand why it wasn't mentioned but still. Honorable mention.
Brock getting the sub is more shocking. If Werdum was going to win it would have been by submission. It's his bread and butter. For Brock that's new territory. Something you don't expect in a title fight.
In a title fight alot champions go to what their comfortable with. Not to mention Brock was hurt and still decided to go for something new. it gets the nodd.
Posted By: Magog (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:35 PM
Cain is as good as dead vs Lesnar. Carwin had the best chance simply because hes just as big. Cain will be able to do very little vs Brock.
Posted By: HHH (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:35 PM
Watch the fight again, Guest#8343.
Grabbing Shane's wrists, stuffing his face, landing hammerfists from the bottom, kicking him away, and wrestling his way back to the feet in a dominant clinch position with a minute left to go in the round isn't nothing.
Everytime the ref gave Brock a warning, he reacted and defended. He wasn't saved by the ref or saved by the bell -- he saved himself, and came back with a quick and decisive victory. Plain and simple.
Posted By: J (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:57 PM
I saw the 1st round Lesnar v. Carwin and it appeared that Lesnar was covering up and the ref let it go. I have to say that Lesnar did not do a thing except cover up. But he submitted him which was kind of sweet considering he is a powerful striker. Did not see a submission out of Lesnar, good win though. Cain is next!
Posted By: Guest#8343 (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:07 PM
ur either clearly blind or just a brock hater... everytime carwin would rain punches,,.. and you would THINK the ref was on the verge of stopping... lesnar would either hammer fist once(he did once).. hold on to carwins biceps (with both hands). or he would just kick off ..
i have the fight dvred and on my computer and i can point out every single time this happened.
Posted By: wylun (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:58 PM
Even though Lesnar won, I wouldn't be fast to put him as the undisputed #1 in the World. The way he ran and covered up in the first round doesn't scream for the title "Baddest Man on the Planet". Everyone knows the only reason why he won was because Carwin gassed big time. He still lacks the skill and variety of opponents for him to get that title as of right now. Both him and Carwin showed a major weakness in their game. I was thinking if Brock goes up against a heavy hitter that's much faster than Carwin and has better Cardio, he's going to be put to sleep.
Posted By: wolvie316 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:13 AM
That was a particularly fun Fact or Fic. One thing Samer said got me thinking about a conversation I recently had about big guys fighting: he said Lesnar is not the most skilled. While I do agree with this, people often overlook the fact that being big, strong, fast, and explosive are all skills that athletes purposefully develop. While genetic propensity toward these traits plays a big role, we mustn't forget that these guys like Lesnar and Carwin deliberately train, eat, and modify their style to develop and take advantage of these traits, and thus these are skills.
In a nut shell, the old "he only wins cuz he's big/being big-strong-fast isnt a skill" argument has little merit. (I know that's not exactly what Samer was saying but it reminded me of that and gave me an excuse to post my thoughts).
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:34 AM
wolvie316, these rankings go by results, not possibilities or hypothetical situations. Yea, Lesnar still has a lot of room to grow (which is scary in itself), but as of right now, he's the guy with the most impressive short-term resume. No other heavyweight has been able to turn in his quality of performances in their last 3-4 fights. Thus, he's ranked #1 right now. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the greatest of all time.
A heavy hitter whose quick and has good cardio can beat Brock? Who is that guy? Velasquez? Dos Santos? Until they prove it, nothing can be guaranteed.
Posted By: J (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:49 AM
Regarding Lesnar-- isn't his comparable lack of experience as opposed to other fighters the scary thing about him, though? Right now, he is arguably the top heavyweight in MMA, and he HASN'T REACHED HIS APEX YET. While it's premature to assume he will beat Cain Velasquez, he is the favorite. He has silenced a good handful of his critics with his performance this Saturday, and I think, in terms of his maturity as a fighter, potentially, his new mindset will take him farther than any of us can possibly imagine.
Let's not forget-- when he jumped to the main WWE roster, he was immensely green, but in a matter of months, he excelled to the point that the E propelled him to the top of the promotion. Sure, wrestling and MMA are entirely different animals, but what does it say about Lesnar, who takes to what he does athletically like a moth to the flame?
The man came back from dire circumstances to become the kingpin of UFC. And we all, as fans, may have only begun to embark on the journey of following Brock Lesnar's rise to MMA-- and mainstream-- greatness.
And-- if he is NOT the best right now, who is? The MMA world now looks on with anticipation to Brock's next opponent(s). Not Fedor's. Not anymore.
Posted By: Guest#4624 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 01:18 AM
I love how people are bashing Brock from Running Away from Carwin....Do you get that was over dominated in the standing game and that retreating against the clinch to "weathered the storm" was the best option ?
And again anyone claiming Brock won ONLY cause Carwin gassed out is a total blind hater or have no clue and knowledge about mma.
MMA is about tiring your opponent enough to finish him out, be it via GNP, TKO, KO or Sub and that's exactly what Lesnar did.
Yes he ran cause if he was NOT Running away he would have been knocked out so that was SMART from him, so he could regroup and also use the clinch to protect himself better and going back to his feet later.
To sum it up, Lesnar fought a total smart fight and has shown Wolverine's like recovery abilities.
" a guy who hits as hard as carwin and has a great cardio" well this guy does NOT exist !
No one hits "as hard" as Carwin in the UFC , he is their biggest heavy hitter.
So sorry but the guy you're talking about is named Fedor Emilianenko and he is not in the UFC YET.....
Technically Fedor is still the best HW in the world but since he has lost his last fight while Brock has been undefeated for two years and a half and just defeated a Top 5 HW , he is the number one in ranking right now.
Posted By: War Lesnar ! (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 01:32 AM
Love Brock Lesnar as much as a man can without being gay!
Posted By: The Anvil (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:46 AM
I saw the 1st round Lesnar v. Carwin and it appeared that Lesnar was covering up and the ref let it go. I have to say that Lesnar did not do a thing except cover up. But he submitted him which was kind of sweet considering he is a powerful striker. Did not see a submission out of Lesnar, good win though. Cain is next!
Posted By: Guest#8343 (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:07 PM
Lesnar moved whenever the ref warned him, so I saw no reason for the ref to stop the fight.
Posted By: Guest#6951 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:47 AM
wolvie316, these rankings go by results, not possibilities or hypothetical situations. Yea, Lesnar still has a lot of room to grow (which is scary in itself), but as of right now, he's the guy with the most impressive short-term resume. No other heavyweight has been able to turn in his quality of performances in their last 3-4 fights. Thus, he's ranked #1 right now. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the greatest of all time.
A heavy hitter whose quick and has good cardio can beat Brock? Who is that guy? Velasquez? Dos Santos? Until they prove it, nothing can be guaranteed.
Posted By: J (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:49 AM
I totally agree with you man. Right now he should be ranked #1 and imo like yours he does have the best short term resume. This can be attributed to the fact that he was such a huge draw, Dana threw him in with the best right away. Normally they would give these fighters time to develop with lesser opponents, much like what Dana said he is doing with Jon Jones.
But IMO being ranked #1 doesn't necessarily mean's that you are the best in the world. I agree that it would mean that you are in the elite, but not the best. Does anyone honestly think Frankie Edgar is better the BJ Penn. Frankie is ranked #1 but I don't think he's the best lightweight in the world. If Sonnen manages to beat Silva, he would be ranked #1 but I would still believe that Silva is still the best in the middleweight division because even the best fighters lose.
Posted By: wolvie316 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:55 AM
you are all haters you hate on brock and carwin if you watched the fight then you know for a fact that carwin hurt brock bad and dominated round one it was onesided and lesner's game plan was never to get smashed it just happened and carwin gassed out but that doesn't make lesner's win less meaningful not many men can take on a beast like shane carwin lesner could have easily became just another victim which if you watch round one again you would see, you brock fans give him to much credit and not enough to anyone else mir beat brock roughly in the same manner and you all say he got lucky brock was just a beginner well carwin was gassed and never been out the first round so why not put the same asterisk next to this win as you do to brock's lost to mir *(he got lucky) and all you brock haters just shut the fuck up he won the damn fight he's the champion deal with it your just as bad as all the brock lesner fan not giving carwin credit brock held on and won he's not the first person to do it so back off
Posted By: Guest#9392 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 03:36 AM
So when Big Nog takes one helluva beating, tires his opponent out and gets the win via submission, he has heart and is one tough S.O.B.
When Lesnar does it, he's running away, etc, etc.
Double standards much?
Posted By: Spank (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 07:22 AM
Lesnar gave a very poor performance and was lucky to come out with a win. 1st RD 10-8 Carwin. 2nd RD Lesnar gets an easy takedown, looked more like Carwin just fell over offering no resistance. The fault lies with Carwin for not being prepared to go 5 RDS. He was gassed, no excuse, Brock was able to get a win not because of his performance but taking advantage of Carwins lack of cardio. Did he win, Yes. Is he the number 1 HW, No. In time, Maybe.
Posted By: hammerfist (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 08:15 AM
Brock holds the championship belt in the biggest promotion with the best fighters. There should be no question about who's number one.
Velasquez is going to get destroyed by Brock. I've only saw his last four fights and with the exception of KOing BigNog (Not impressive) he was unable to knock out or even hurt any of his opponents. All he did was smother guys on the ground who have little to no ground game. And the two fights that I saw stopped weren't because his opponents were taking to much damage, it was because the ref just felt bad they were getting dominated. This will not be the case when he fights Brock. Brock is bigger, stronger, and just as talented on the ground.
Rashad is a bitch period. If he fights and loses his number one contender spot then he didn't deserve to fight for the championship anyways. But on the upside, at least I won't have to watch his lay and pray strategy for at least 10 months if not more.
Posted By: dosSantos>Velasquez (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 08:17 AM
ur either clearly blind or just a brock hater... everytime carwin would rain punches,,.. and you would THINK the ref was on the verge of stopping... lesnar would either hammer fist once(he did once).. hold on to carwins biceps (with both hands). or he would just kick off ..
i have the fight dvred and on my computer and i can point out every single time this happened.
Posted By: wylun (Guest) on July 06, 2010 at 11:58 PM
Or Brock would bleed profusely. Lol
Posted By: Guest#7364 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 09:07 AM
Just think about it, Cain will give away at LEAST 20 pounds (maybe 40 once Brock has rehydrated) to a guy whose wrestling is likely better. plus we know that Cain does not have KO power (see 200 punches to Kongo as exhibit A). So smat money is on Brock by decision or TKO due to hammerfist!
Posted By: Cyco (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 09:57 AM
you are all haters you hate on brock and carwin if you watched the fight then you know for a fact that carwin hurt brock bad and dominated round one it was onesided and lesner's game plan was never to get smashed it just happened and carwin gassed out but that doesn't make lesner's win less meaningful not many men can take on a beast like shane carwin lesner could have easily became just another victim which if you watch round one again you would see, you brock fans give him to much credit and not enough to anyone else mir beat brock roughly in the same manner and you all say he got lucky brock was just a beginner well carwin was gassed and never been out the first round so why not put the same asterisk next to this win as you do to brock's lost to mir *(he got lucky) and all you brock haters just shut the fuck up he won the damn fight he's the champion deal with it your just as bad as all the brock lesner fan not giving carwin credit brock held on and won he's not the first person to do it so back off
Someone needs a LESSON in GRAMMAR.
Reading what you wrote was more painful than getting hit by Shane Carwin.
Posted By: Guest#0314 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 10:38 AM
In his 2nd Pro Fight ever, Frank Mir submits Brock who showed his inexperience. The dipshit response...
"SEE SEE SEE... I told you the guy from the fake stuff couldn't hack it!"
His next fight was against Herring. Dipshit says
"No way can he beat a guy with as much as experience as Herring."
Brock destroyes Heath so Dipshit says
"Yeah well, Heath was old... there's no way he can beat a polished all around legend like Randy Couture!"
Brock destroys Couture so the same excuse making dipshit says...
"Well of course Brock won, look how much bigger he is. Frank Mir OWNED him before, he'll own him again!"
Of course anyone that saw that first fight, saw Brock pulverizing Mir right before getting caught... but hey, this MMA "Purist" dumbass is well versed, and boldly continues to believe that Brock was indeed owned by Mir. Of course, what anyone with sound mind could see coming... happens, and Brock destroys Mir so dipshit says...
"Yeah well, no way can he beat someone is big as him, and can hit as hard as Carwin. Brock has no chin, and can't finish."
Carwin rocks Lesnar that would have knocked out just about any hw (including Fedor) and brilliantly defends himself (I know, apparently he shoulda just sat there taking shots from Shane, THAT is a true MMA superstar) and actually finishes the round strong and gets to his feet into a clinch position. Because Brock Lesnar is a superior athlete, he DID have better cardio than Shane. He was the one that prepared himself for a 5 round title fight, and therefore in round 2, Brock, easily took Shane down and submitted him. So now the typical dipshit says...
"Yeah well, Shane was gassed, anyone who can hit as hard as Shane, and has good cardio, will beat Brock."
Did I leave anything out? It will be interesting to see you morons in a few months after Brock beats Cain, and what the excuses will be then.
Posted By: gwpbrian (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 11:25 AM
I'm a huge Brock fan....but i wouldn't count Cain out one bit!
Posted By: BP (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 11:28 AM
I was thinking if Brock goes up against a heavy hitter that's much faster than Carwin and has better Cardio, he's going to be put to sleep.
------------------------------
Id like to meet this superman!
Posted By: SCOT HALL (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:09 PM
That was a particularly fun Fact or Fic. One thing Samer said got me thinking about a conversation I recently had about big guys fighting: he said Lesnar is not the most skilled. While I do agree with this, people often overlook the fact that being big, strong, fast, and explosive are all skills that athletes purposefully develop. While genetic propensity toward these traits plays a big role, we mustn't forget that these guys like Lesnar and Carwin deliberately train, eat, and modify their style to develop and take advantage of these traits, and thus these are skills.
In a nut shell, the old "he only wins cuz he's big/being big-strong-fast isnt a skill" argument has little merit. (I know that's not exactly what Samer was saying but it reminded me of that and gave me an excuse to post my thoughts).
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:34 AM
Thanks for the comment man. I did not, in any way, mean that Brock isn't "skilled". Being that great of a wrestler is being skilled. Developping into a pretty impressive submission grappler is certainly being skilled. And as you said, being so athletic and having the ability to move so well despite being obviously means that he is skilled.
Posted By: Samer Kadi (Registered) on July 07, 2010 at 12:17 PM
Brock was helpless in that fight when Shane jumped on top of him-and I bet everyone watching that fight thought it was over-and if you say otherwise, you are lying.
Shane never fought a round 2 in his life, so he gassed out.
If it was anyone else, Brock was done.
I was very disappointed as I thought I was going to see 2 trucks colliding, when in actuality I saw 1 truck running over a van, and then running out of gas.
If someone like Fedor had been in that position, Brock was finished. Fedor is someone who has fought 5 rounds, and has even fought multiple fights in 1 night. All victories, too.
I don't see anything special with the UFC fighters that I haven't seen elsewhere.
Posted By: Disappointed (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 01:01 PM
I think Brock will beat Cain, but I can't dismiss his abilities.. Cain is the better wrestler in my opinion (anyone saying I'm wrong strictly based on college needs to let GSP know).. Brocks sheer size, which as one commenter smartly pointed out is a skill, will be a factor in many of his fights.. In truth the JDS/Big Country winner would be my ideal style to beat Brock
Posted By: 401k (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 01:32 PM
Even though Lesnar won, I wouldn't be fast to put him as the undisputed #1 in the World. The way he ran and covered up in the first round doesn't scream for the title "Baddest Man on the Planet". Everyone knows the only reason why he won was because Carwin gassed big time. He still lacks the skill and variety of opponents for him to get that title as of right now. Both him and Carwin showed a major weakness in their game. I was thinking if Brock goes up against a heavy hitter that's much faster than Carwin and has better Cardio, he's going to be put to sleep.
Posted By: wolvie316 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 12:13 AM
Too bad NOBODY can hit harder or even as hard as Shane Carwin. Brock will only improve and doesnt make the same mistakes twice. Just ask Frank Mir.
Posted By: beerslayer (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:11 PM
Good article. However, I think people are too overzealous to call Lesnar the "top heavyweight," and wouldn't be doing so if he didn't have the belt (which he took via a questionable title shot at 2-1). And the question of whether or not he defended well enough against Carwin seems to have different answers, coming from those who are partial toward Brock and those who aren't. Either way, I agree with people who say that if it was anyone else taking that damage from Carwin, the fight might have been stopped. That said, I admire Brock's newfound humility and sportsmanship. I think Carwin will be back as good as ever, having learned to pace himself better. Also, anyone underestimating Cain Velasquez is making a mistake.
Posted By: JC (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:46 PM
Too bad NOBODY can hit harder or even as hard as Shane Carwin. Brock will only improve and doesnt make the same mistakes twice. Just ask Frank Mir.
Posted By: beerslayer (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:11 PM
Tell that to Arlovski and Brett Rogers who got layed out with 1 punch from Fedor.
Posted By: Guest#9977 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 02:57 PM
Cain has ZERO chance against Brock-if that is the next match-up, Dana better open his wallet and bring in Fedor-now is the best time to do so-and Fedor may be open to negotiations since he just lost.
Or make Anderson Silva gain some weight, I'd rather see him vs Brock than "no-name" Cain.
Posted By: Guest#2161 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 03:09 PM
Whoever sais UFC has better heavyweight contenders than Strikeforce are kidding themselves.
Fedor, Overeem, King MO, and even Bobby Lashley would make tremendously more intriguing fights against Brock Lesnar than Cain, JDS, or Tub Tub Roy Nelson. As of now, Brock's current UFC list of opponents are a snoozefest, and the outcomes are a given.
Posted By: Guest#0756 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 03:14 PM
Can you imagine how God awful boring a fight between Shields and Jon Fitch would be? BRUTAL
Posted By: kingave66 (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 04:40 PM
If Brock goes up against a heavy hitter who's fast and has better cardio than Carwin, he'd be fighting himself. Superman vs. Bizarro Superman. Interesting. Book it Dana
Posted By: Tristan (Guest) on July 07, 2010 at 07:11 PM
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