The Rear Naked Column 07.16.10: MMA Misconceptions: One-Dimensional Fighters
Posted by Samer Kadi on 07.16.2010
Discussion of one-dimensional fighters and why it may be one of the most common misconceptions in MMA. Also, the MMA World Cup wraps up this week as Team Brazil battles Team North America!
In relative terms, mixed martial arts is a fairly new sport. Its history in North America dates back to 1994, but the MMA boom has only been out in full force since 2005. Therefore, on some levels, it remains a somewhat misunderstood sport. While ignorance regarding MMA's "human cockfighting" nature has grown tiresome, it will likely never cease to exist in some capacity, and the UFC's now epic struggles to get MMA sanctioned in both Toronto and New York are a testament to that. Uneducated assumptions about MMA are something longtime fans have grown accustomed to, thus lost most of its impact on this increasingly popular sport. The Ultimate Fighting Championship has become the premier PPV force, and with an ever-growing fan base, their place at the top remains tightly secured.
However, the number of conflicting opinions about the sport within MMA fans themselves is somewhat striking. From a tolerance (or lack thereof) to the ground game to a perception of what's "boring" or "exciting", the general acumen of the sport differs from one individual to another. But even among the sport's pundits, there seems to be quite a few misconceptions when it comes to their views on the fight game. Beyond the generic "lay and pray" complaints, some mistaken beliefs go much deeper. This week, "The Rear Naked Column" attempts to look at one rather common misconception, even among some of the sport's most respected personalities:
One-dimensional fighters: The general consensus seems set out on the idea that the three dimensions of MMA are striking, wrestling, and Jiu-Jitsu. Any fighter who excels at just one of these disciplines is labeled "one-dimensional". The overall concept isn't totally false, but remains severely flawed. By the same token, it might as well be forgivable to have an even more shallow outlook, and look at striking and grappling as being the two dimensions of MMA, thus combining the wrestling and jiu-jitsu aspects.
This superficial approach has led many to mistakenly give fighters the dreaded "one-dimensional" label. Look no further than Shinya Aoki. The Japanese submission wizard is largely looked upon as being just that, a submission specialist, hence the one-dimensional characterization. Except submissions mean very little if a fighter can't get the fight to the ground. Which is exactly what Aoki is so good at; finding a way to take the fight to the ground, despite not having the best wrestling in the world. Aoki's ability to force fighters into his guard and lock them up (a far more difficult task than it sounds), shoot for single legs, transition and force scrambles, is a dimension in of itself. Many seem intent on downgrading the impressiveness of Aoki's lightweight resume, but the fact remains he has beaten – and often times submitted – some of the top lightweights in the world. Aoki holds wins over Joachim Hansen, Caol Uno, JZ Calvancante, "Shaolin" Ribeiro, Eddie Alvarez and most recently, Tatsuya Kawajiri. Wins of this quality are too remarkable to be achieved with a one-dimensional style.
Aoki's ability to corner his opponents, close the distance, and secure trip takedowns or pull guard is by far one of the most underrated aspects of his game. He is easily one of the most diverse grapplers in MMA, and that very same diversity adds another element to his game. He is practically dangerous from any position on the ground, and is one of the few submission specialists who are equally as threatening from the top and bottom. His use of the rubber guard is arguably the best in MMA, and his ability to transition into submissions without having fully secured a dominant position is unrivaled.
His last fight with Tatsuya Kawajiri is the biggest indication of the eccentric Japanese fighter's brilliance. He shot for a single leg, couldn't finish it, and immediately switched things up and went for a leg lock. A few agonizing seconds later, Kawajiri was screaming in pain, left with no choice but to tap. Having such a versatile submission game is not that common, even among the sport's elite grapplers. Minotauro Nogueira, one of MMA's most successful submission artists, has never been a leg lock specialist. In fact, few BJJ fighters are. Leg locks are a tricky proposition, as blowing an attempt essentially means giving up a dominant position. Yet, fighters with a solid leg lock game have a tremendous ace up their sleeves, and Aoki is certainly one.
Aoki may not be the overall grappler that some of his peers are. BJ Penn's grappling is significantly superior. His top game, guard passing ability, mount and back control are easily ahead of Aoki's. Jacare Souza's positional awareness may just be the best in the game. However, Aoki has a serious case for being the best submission artist (rather than grappler) in MMA.
People often misuse the "one-dimensional" moniker, when "not well-rounded" is the more accurate term. Shinya Aoki is far from being a well-rounded fighter. His striking is non-existent, and his overall skill set is somewhat limited. The Gilbert Melendez fight showed how limited Aoki's game can be if he can't take the fight into his element, but that does not make him one-dimensional. The cage plays right into Aoki's detriment, where he is no longer able to pin his opponents down, close the distance and work from the clinch (another underrated aspect of his game).
Terms like "striking", "wrestling" and "Jiu-Jitsu" are simply too vague when attempting to weigh in a fighter's skill-set. Anderson Silva is a great striker because he is a versatile striker. His possesses great boxing, great counterpunching abilities, lethal kicks, and is deadly in the clinch. His footwork and head movement are the best in the game.
However, a fighter with good boxing who happens to have mediocre head movement and is totally clueless in the clinch cannot be labeled as a "good striker". It is simply too shallow to describe him as such. BJ Penn is one of the best boxers in the game, but rarely utilizes any kicks. Doesn't that take a dimension away from his striking? He is however, as well-rounded as they come when it comes to his overall MMA game.
Even someone like Chuck Liddell has had the misfortune of being called one-dimensional, which is criminal when you consider the quality of his takedown defense and his ability to regain his feet after being forced to the ground.
The "dimensions" of MMA should be looked at within each different discipline. Dan Henderson is an Olympic caliber Greco-Roman wrestler, therefore his wrestling is at his most efficient from the clinch. Conversely, his actual shot is quite poor and his takedown defense is surprisingly below par. Calling him a "good wrestler" without further elaboration can be misleading, in the same way that calling Aoki "one-dimensional" is misleading. Limited? Absolutely. One-dimensional? Not exactly.
Brock Lesnar has been called one-dimensional for a while now, when in fact his positional awareness on the ground, his overall top control as well as his ability to move so well for a man his size make him far more versatile than people are willing to give him credit for. Contrariwise, his actual wrestling is one-dimensional as he relies exclusively on an admittedly fantastic power double-leg takedown.
In closing, it is time to wrap up "The MMA World Cup" with the final that everyone has been waiting for:
Team Brazil Vs Team North America:
Minotauro Nogueira Vs Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos Vs Shane Carwin
Shogun Rua Vs Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida Vs Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva Vs Jake Shields
Vitor Belfort Vs Chael Sonnen
Thiago Alves Vs Jon Fitch
Paulo Thiago Vs Georges St. Pierre
JZ Calvancante Vs BJ Penn
Shaolin Ribeiro Vs Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo Vs Urijah Faber
Please take the time to vote (and leave feedback) in the comments section, and the results will be displayed next week. I would like to mention that I'm considering making the "misconceptions" topic a semi-regular feature where I discuss a different one every once in a while. Let me know what you guys think.
Brock
Dos Santos
Shogun
Rampage
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Thiago Alves
GSP
Penn
Edgar
Aldo
Posted By: GuestDragon (Guest) on July 15, 2010 at 11:34 PM
Brock
Dos Santos
Shogun
Machida
Silva
Sonnen
Fitch
GSP
Penn
Edgar
Aldo
Posted By: Last_Rider (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 12:05 AM
Lesnar
Dos Santos
Rua
Jackson
Silva
Belfort
Fitch
St. Pierre
Penn
Edgar
Aldo
p
Posted By: rotojohn (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 12:08 AM
lesnar
dos santos
evans via wrestling
rampage
anderson
vitor
fitch
gsp
penn
edgar
aldo
Posted By: Guest#7360 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 12:19 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Rashad Evans
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Guest#2016 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 01:03 AM
Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Cyco (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 01:30 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Great Column
Posted By: Kuch7 (Registered) on July 16, 2010 at 01:31 AM
Lesnar
JDS
Rua
Lyoto
Silva
Sonnen
Alves
GSP
Penn
Edgar
Aldo
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 02:00 AM
lesnar
dos santos
shogun
rampage
silva
alves
gsp
penn
edgar
aldo
Posted By: hindufat (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 02:13 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Jon FitchGeorges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: wolvie316 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 04:29 AM
brock
carwin
rua
machida
silva
sonnen
fitch
GSP
penn
edgar
aldo
Posted By: Guest#1792 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 04:33 AM
Team Brazil Vs Team North America:
Brock Lesnar (TKO RD1)
Junior Dos Santos (KO RD2)
Shogun Rua (KO RD2)
Lyoto Machida (Decision)
Anderson Silva (KO RD2)
Chael Sonnen (Decision)
Thiago Alves (Decision)
Georges St. Pierre (TKO RD3)
BJ Penn (Submission RD2)
Frankie Edgar (Decision)
Jose Aldo (Decision)
Brazil Wins 6-5
Posted By: manoftheclothe (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 05:26 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 05:28 AM
Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Commie (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 05:36 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
6-5 Brazil.
Agreed with the column too, Aoki is not one-dimensional.... His opponents dont simply fall into his submissions, it the process of the takedown to then transitioning and applying the submission. Hardly one-dimensional.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 05:48 AM
Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Shogun Rua
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 07:39 AM
The gist of the article is that fans should consider more dimensions when criticizing a fighter. There's one problem with that: mma fans like criticizing fighters so much that they will likely ignore any technical breakdown of their skills simply so they can keep complaining!
Fun read, maybe a few more misconception articles are in order. How about the amount fighters are paid? Every single time 411 posts a salary list the same ppl comment that it's so criminal how little they get paid. Perhaps it's time to educate them.
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 07:47 AM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Shaolin Ribeiro
Jose Aldo
Posted By: mstrong73 (Registered) on July 16, 2010 at 08:41 AM
Brock
Dos Santos
Shogun
Machida
A Silva
Sonnen
Alves
GSP
Penn
Edgar
Aldo
Posted By: Adam (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:26 AM
Brock by murder-kill
Dos Santos via TKO
Shogun via KO
Lyoto via unanimous decision
Silva via slaughter
Belfot via KO
Fitch via lay'n'pray
St Pierre via homicide
BJ Penn via choke
Edgar via TKO
Aldo via the exact same way as before
Posted By: stronelis (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:28 AM
My take on this topic:
MMA consists of two parts:
1.) Being good at one "dimension",like striking,submission grappling,or ground-n-pound. Where you actually can hurt somebody,or finish him. You know,the essence of MMA.
2.) Force your will onto your opponent and make him fight your fight. This is where wrestling helps a lot. But its not everything,not even close.
Aoki is GREAT at #2,despite not having good wrestling. Still he took down an olympic wrestler easily,there is so much more to takedowns than just wrestling.
Anderson Silva is GREAT at #2,in his case,keeping the fight standing. He doesnt have good wrestling,but he has amazing takedown defense. Lot of footwork,and murdering everyone who closes the distance. Thats better takedown defense than what you can learn in wrestling.
My favourite fighters are those,who are dangerous both standing,and on the ground,like Aldo,Fedor,Shogun,Torres,Mousasi,Diaz,etc. BUT! You can live happily with only one dimension,if you have great skills to make your opponent fight in that one dimension. Brock does that,Aoki does that,Chuck did that,Machida does that (I know he has ground game,but rarely uses it). Wrestling helps a lot,but there are other methods as well,wrestling is not necessary to be a great fighter.
I know MMA fans usually dont like other sports,but this was the deal with the 2006/07 Golden State Warriors. They were one dimensional,they were AMAZING at fast breaks,weak and way too small at half court basketball. But they had very good ability,to make their opponents play an uptempo game. If the opponent couldnt slow down the pace,they were fucked,because Davis,Richardson,Jackson and Harrington would shoot the lights out every night. Dallas,although having the much more star-studded team,and finishing no.1 in the season,lost that infamous series to GSW,because they played the Warriors basketball.
Just like that,if Brock can take you down and GnP you,95% that you will lose. If you can stop the TD,he is like a fish outta water,without a clue what to do.
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:53 AM
Team Brazil down the line... except for GSP over P. Thiago and Penn over JZ. Shaolin over Edgar is my upset special! Lesnar would get pwned by Nogueira via submission!
Posted By: Guest#7514 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:57 AM
Oh man...this is what I knew it come down to...I don't even know who I'm going with yet
Minotauro Nogueira Vs Brock Lesnar
Definitely Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos Vs Shane Carwin
Probably the toughest fight to pick out of any of them. Carwin is extremely impressive and pummeled Mir and Brock in the 1st round unlike anyone else I've seen. I think JDS is a beast but I got Carwin
Shogun Rua Vs Rashad Evans
Tough but for some reason I think Rashad could get the win by out-wrestling Shogun and getting the decision. I think his standup is good enough to avoid the KO, but I think it's an extremely close match.
Lyoto Machida Vs Quinton Jackson
Definitely Machida. He's on a different level than Rampage. Personality war goes to Rampage by a mile tho lol
Anderson Silva Vs Jake Shields
Easily Silva
Vitor Belfort Vs Chael Sonnen
Tough one but I see Vitor getting the KO
Thiago Alves Vs Jon Fitch
Jon Fitch won this one last time and see him winning again..the guy is very very tough to beat
Paulo Thiago Vs Georges St. Pierre
Haha do I even have to say?
JZ Calvancante Vs BJ Penn
Easily Penn
Shaolin Ribeiro Vs Frankie Edgar
Edgar
Jose Aldo Vs Urijah Faber
Aldo
Posted By: mae (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 10:04 AM
In some ways the article feels like a defense of Shinya Aoki.I would argue about Dan Henderson though,while yes he's more effective using the clinch I wouldn't say his shot his quite poor, or his takedown defense is below par.I think you just might be reading into the Jake Shields fight too much for that one,and Jake Shields is a world class grappler himself.
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Jon Fitch
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
America wins 6-5
The biggest issue with most of the people here seem to be Chael Sonnel vs. Vitor Belfort.
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM
Fun read, maybe a few more misconception articles are in order. How about the amount fighters are paid? Every single time 411 posts a salary list the same ppl comment that it's so criminal how little they get paid. Perhaps it's time to educate them.
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 07:47 AM
Thanks for the suggestion. That's not a bad idea at all.
I've got a couple of misconceptions lined up first.. I'll probably get around to this one in August.
Posted By: Samer Kadi (Registered) on July 16, 2010 at 12:21 PM
Minotauro Nogueira
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Thiago Alves
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Also, I like the idea of the misconceptions column...
Posted By: Chris Crowing (Registered) on July 16, 2010 at 01:42 PM
Brock Lesnar
Shane Carwin
Shogun Rua
Quinton Jackson
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Jon Fitch
Georges St-Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: jeck (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 02:52 PM
"The biggest issue with most of the people here seem to be Chael Sonnel vs. Vitor Belfort.
Posted By: Guest (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 11:09 AM"
I took Sonnen over Belfort because Sonnen's got the chin to last more than two minutes, at which point Vitor wilts. Plus, Vitor didn't fare so well against former Team Quest member Randy Couture, so I think TQ would have the gameplan to pick up the win. The other unpopular choice I made, that being Shane Carwin, is because I don't think ANYONE else in the sports withstands the shots that Lesnar did in their fight at UFC 116, so I think Carwin picks up the win before he gasses out.
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 04:45 PM
World Cup:
Lesnar via TKO
Dos Santos via submission
Shogun via KO
Rampage via KO
Silva via KO
Sonnen via decision
Fitch via decision
GSP via TKO
Penn via submission
Edgar via decision
Aldo via TKO
Posted By: White Recluse (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 04:52 PM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Thiago Alves
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
7-4 to Brazil,the best country in MMA
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 06:33 PM
"In some ways the article feels like a defense of Shinya Aoki.I would argue about Dan Henderson though,while yes he's more effective using the clinch I wouldn't say his shot his quite poor, or his takedown defense is below par.I think you just might be reading into the Jake Shields fight too much for that one,and Jake Shields is a world class grappler himself."
Thanks for the comment man. Regarding Aoki, this was in no way meant to be an article defending him (I'm not even a huge fan), but his win over Kawajiri was the inspiration for this column.. So I can see how it ended up looking as such.
Regarding Hendo, remember, Shields was not the first fighter to outwrestle him. Quinton Jackson (a good wrestler, but still), Ricardo Arona (great grappler, but not that good of a wrestler), Ninja Rua (really?) and Shields. Hell Rousimar Palhares shot for a double leg, picked him up and slammed him on his but..
Posted By: Samer Kadi (Registered) on July 16, 2010 at 06:42 PM
Sorry Kader but one dimensional is one dimensional e.g Aoki,Manhoef,Brock,Sonnen,Kongo.
Posted By: Forrest fire (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 08:05 PM
Lesnar
Carwin
Evans
Machida
Shields
Vitor
Fitch
GSP(Why not put kos in here and call it USA VS BRASIL)
BJ
EDGAR
ALDO
Posted By: Guest#8339 (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:12 PM
brock
jds
shogun
jackson
silva
belfort
alves
gsp
penn
edgar
aldo
Posted By: hhhooo (Guest) on July 16, 2010 at 09:43 PM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Shogun Rua
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Vitor Belfort
Thiago Alves
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Elijah (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 12:17 AM
"Ricardo Arona (great grappler, but not that good of a wrestler)"
what???? Just because he isnt american or what? Arona is better at takedowns and top control than nearly every wrestler in MMA.
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 05:44 AM
" 'Ricardo Arona (great grappler, but not that good of a wrestler)'
what???? Just because he isnt american or what? Arona is better at takedowns and top control than nearly every wrestler in MMA.
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 05:44 AM"
Dude, seriously, can I ask you a question - why do you have so much hate for Americans, especially American wrestlers? I know I mock you a lot and tell you to go back to K1, but I'm really, honestly, trying to come to some sort of understanding here as to where your bias comes from so that at least in the future we can promote some kind of healthy discussion instead of just devolving into Sherdog-esque namecalling. Did you try out for the wrestling team in junior high and get bullied around by the wrestlers or what?
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 09:27 AM
Brock
Carwin
Shogun
Lyoto
Anderson Silva
Sonnen
Fitch
GSP
BJ Penn
Edgar
Aldo
Team North America 7 Team Brazil 4
Posted By: Guest#7532 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 02:22 PM
Brock by TKO(1st) Dos Santos by KO (1st) Shogun by KO (2nd) Machida by UD Silva by KO (whatever round he wants) Belfort by KO (1st) Alves by UD (Toughest fight to pick. Luckily we get to see this fight for real in 3 weeks.) GSP by Sub (2nd) Penn by Sub (3rd) Edgar by UD Aldo by KO (1st) Brazil wins 7-4
Posted By: ETM (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 02:35 PM
Dude, seriously, can I ask you a question - why do you have so much hate for Americans, especially American wrestlers? I know I mock you a lot and tell you to go back to K1, but I'm really, honestly, trying to come to some sort of understanding here as to where your bias comes from so that at least in the future we can promote some kind of healthy discussion instead of just devolving into Sherdog-esque namecalling. Did you try out for the wrestling team in junior high and get bullied around by the wrestlers or what?
Posted By: Wyatt Beougher (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 09:27 AM
I dont know what are you talking about,really. You called me a troll when I said that K-1 has more enjoyable shows on a regular basis,even though Im equal fan of both sports. Just because I admit that MMA,and especially the UFC is not the end-all be-all of everything?
I said that Arona is better than most wrestlers,because he is. Usually BJJ fighters arent so good at takedowns,or top control like wrestlers,but there are a few exceptions. Arona and Jacaré are as good as you can get. Just because Arona doesnt have an NCAA wrestling background he is not a good wreslter? If so...than what about GSP?
I said that "just because he isnt american?" part because its your tradition to go to MMA with a strong wrestling background,so it might be surprising that there are brazilians (who specialize in BJJ and muay thai) have some great wrestlers. But they have...
Just like europeans are usually one dimensional strikers,not because of the lack of talent,but because of the culture (you know,boxing,and K-1 is huge over there),but you can find some exceptions who rather take the fight to the ground and submit their opponents.
Posted By: SoulBrotherNo1 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 07:18 PM
Brock Lesnar
Junior Dos Santos
Rashad Evans
Lyoto Machida
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Thiago Alves
Georges St. Pierre
BJ Penn
Frankie Edgar
Jose Aldo
Posted By: Guest#4813 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 11:10 PM
how anybody thinks shogun could beat rashad is waaay beyond me, rashad is easily one of the best if not the top atleast at the moment, hes better than machida he just got carried in the hype and never fought a guy like that, shogun just treated him like anybody else and fought head on he WILL lose to rashad its just a matter of time
oh but rashads no chin like gsp dont help
Posted By: Guest#3450 (Guest) on July 17, 2010 at 11:31 PM
From the Arona debate, seems another article is in order to diffentiate what a good grappler is as opposed to a good wrestler.
Yes, "one-dimensional" "great wrestling" "excellent grappler" are vague and too largely encompassing phrases. It's only with columnists though that specifics are necessary, I don't mind them in most discussions because there's an idea that the parties know what you're talking about. As for my two cents on Hendo, I've always been impressed with his clinchwork, but a surprising number of people are puzzled that Hendo isn't adept with his single and double leg takedowns. Most of his best stuffs has been when he gets underhooks after a short sprawl, initializes a clinch and then pushes them away (Bisping, Wanderlei, Franklin), so I agree that his ground wrestling and shots are fairly poor for him to be coined a "good wrestler" in the context of MMA.
Another great article, here're my votes:
Big Nog
JDS
Shogun
Machida
Silva
Sonnen
Alves
GSP
BJ
Shaolin
Jose Aldo
I couldn't come to a decision with Sonnen/Belfort because I feel Sonnen is too committed and versatile with the takedown and Vitor is too susceptible to the same. Plus, Sonnen hasn't really lost by KO in his career (a cut and corner stoppage, we give BJ and Fedor the benefit of the doubt, and I'm feeling magnanimous). But Vitor is still a black belt and has strong, if a bit wild, boxing so I can't discount him either. Oh well, I'm sure you can manage.
Posted By: Steve (Guest) on July 18, 2010 at 01:46 AM
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