411 MMA Smacktalk 06.25.07: All Day, All Day
Posted by Damian Sarcuni on 06.25.2007
Join us as we recap one of the most action packed weekends in the history of MMA.
Welcome to Smacktalk, the source for MMA news and rumors on 411mania.com on Mondays. I am Damian Sarcuni and with me as always is Jose Chavez.
This weekend was HUGE in terms of sheer amount of MMA action. UFC checked in with the big finale of The Ultimate Fighter season 5, which had plenty of controversial endings. Elite XC/Strikeforce made waves with their jam packed card out of San Jose, which included the highly anticipated main event of Phil Baroni VS Frank Shamrock. To top the whole weekend off, Kimbo Slice made a huge MMA debut against former boxing champion Ray Mercer in the Cage Combat Fury Championship promotion.
Despite the amazing amount of MMA action over the weekend, our format does not change. "They say" is the news item on which we are reporting, "You say" are comments from fans on each issue, and "We say" is our own personal thoughts on the same item. Let's work through it.
They say
TUF competitors Gray Maynard and Rob Emerson had an intense confrontation that ended in controversy at last weekend's Ultimate Fighter finale. Their bout ended in a no contest when Maynard took Emerson to the ground, knocking himself out while Emerson tapped out of the fight due to a rib injury.
You say
The only point to be made in the Maynard/Emerson fight is that if the ref were able to see that both fighters were unable to continue at the same time, he would've clearly called it a NC from the get go. Instead, he saw the tap and that caused the end of the fight. So at first, I was inclined to say that Maynard deserved the win because the tap ended it. Now I'm not so sure, considering that in reality both guys were done on impact and simultaneously. It's a tough call. - MindTravel, sherdog.net
Maynard was Ko'd. Before the tap. Bottom line. Good decision. - Nemesis, 411mania.com forums
We say
Damian: I know this is going to sound like I'm being a smart ass, but I wish we would see more calls like this. MMA is both a new sport and one that is filled with gray areas. People need to realize this and drive towards the sport's evolution, evolving rules and being more professional about them. You aren't going to get a perfect ending every time, and this one really isn't that big of a scar on either fighter's record. They should just do it again, it wasn't for a belt or anything.
Jose: At first I was against the call and thought Maynard should've been declared the winner. It looked like Referee Steve Mazagatti had stopped the fight in Maynard's favor and then changed it to a no contest upon looking at the replay. But when I looked at it again, Mazagatti definitely noticed that Maynard had KO'ed himself. If Maynard or Emerson had been given the nod it would've been highly controversial anyway, so the NC was probably the only fair thing to do.
They say
In the main event of the latest Strikeforce card, Frank Shamrock completely dominated Phil Baroni both striking and on the ground, finishing him in round 2 with a rear naked choke. Shamrock may have finally backed up all his talk, and can become a viable contender in the 185lb ranks.
You say
I'd put him in at 12, which is where I had Baroni before in my top 20. Shamrock looked pretty good tonight but I have to see him beat someone more well rounded before I'm convinced. - smoogy, forums.mmanews.com
shamrock looked great, much better then he did against renzo. i think he can get right back in there with top mw, maybe have him fight a guy in the bottom 5 of the top 10, or have him fight jeremy horn. that'll be a good test and guage. – Beatts35, forums.mmanews.com
We say
Damian: Frank Shamrock goes beyond the whole "hate him as a fan" relationship for me. I view him as a pimple on the face of MMA, one that just refuses to go away. Shamrock is a side show fighter who is only interested in remaining as a big fish in a little pond. He's not going to take on any top competition any time soon and if he does he'll get creamed. I'm just hoping someone will beat him badly enough to the point where he is embarrassed out of the sport or forced to retire. It's not that I dislike him as a fighter, at this point I could care less about that. I just want something, anything to happen that will shut Frank Shamrock up for good.
Jose: He certainly looked a lot better than I would've imagined. But his takedown defense was still very weak, and he was pretty gassed by the end of the first round. Time will tell if his body can still hold up to the rigors of MMA fighting. Phil Baroni completely underestimated him it seems. I don't think anyone will make that mistake again. At this point though, do I think he could beat the likes of Anderson Silva, Rich Franklin, or Denis Kang? I'd have to say no.
They say
In a recent article on mmauniverse.com, undefeated heavyweight fighter Brandon Vera commented that he was working on finding a flaw in Pride heavyweight champion Fedor Emelianenko's game. Brandon was quoted as saying "I'll be ready in 2008, and when Fedor slips, I'll be there."
You say
I know better fighters have fought Fedor and gotten their head kicked in..........I think he's just running his mouth. - paksanity, sherdog.net
I don't know what Vera is thinking, he really hasn't fought anyone that worth mentioning at this point. I like the kid but he's way too cocky and I need to see him in a little bit of trouble before I'll be singing his praises. - halfway, sherdog.net
We say
Damian: It sounds like Vera is taking the task at hand with the level of seriousness it deserves. Brandon might just be the man to take Fedor out, as there isn't so much in his fights that he has already shown that the Red Devils can see and capitalize on. If Vera catches those holes in his game before Fedor does, we could be in for a long fight. Then again, Fedor is Fedor and he never rests on his laurels. He may be too cerebral to beat, ever.
Jose: Vera's been talking about this for a long time, the guy probably dreams about how his fight with Fedor would go every night. I just think he's an ambitious guy with a clear head about this. I hope he comes back to the UFC as soon as possible so he can get closer to making that goal a reality.
They say
In his MMA debut, Kimbo Slice avoided a standup war and took former boxing champion Ray Mercer to the ground, submitting him with a guillotine choke and showing great respect for the complete MMA game. Afterward. UFC mainstay Tank Abbott challenged Kimbo to his next fight.
You say
imo kimbo looked very good. even tho he was fighting someone else not trained in mma and very old i might add, but overall good start for kimbo and i think hes got some potential. – CMurdA, sherdog.net
I'd say Kimbo is on the same level as Tank Abbott. Both are brawlers with big mouths. Kimbo promoted his streetfights through the internet. Tank brags about his countless bar fights. I don't think Kimbo will tarnish the image of MMA. - ILL BILL, forums.mmaweekly.com
We say
Damian: I thought Kimbo looked a bit sloppy but he showed enough to be taken seriously as a fighter. He abandoned his pride, listened to his corner, and executed his game plan. He won't go to the top, but it will be very interesting to see just how far he does make it. It's also refreshing to know that street fighters still have a bridge into MMA, and you don't always need to win a gold medal or be a pro kickboxer to find a home in the cage.
Jose: Kimbo looked good, although his opponent was a great boxer in his day he was clearly washed up and essentially a punching bag. Kimbo however showed some nice Thai knees in the clinch, and even got a takedown and submission. I think Tank VS Kimbo should be a fun slugfest. At the same point, with Rutten in his corner and Tank in the washed up category himself, I predict a win for Mr. Slice
They say
In the main event of the Ultimate fighter finale, BJ Penn earned his revenge against Jens Pulver by submitting him with a rear naked choke in the second round. After the loss Jens told sherdog.com that he would like to start competing in a featherweight class at 145lbs..
You say
I thought it would be finished when BJ put the armbar on, but he let it go. Also when he had the triangle, I thought BJ was strong enough to keep the position but he opened and let jens out. But I cant imagine a fighter taking that much of a risk in a fight. – Chungt79, forums.mmanews.com
I think it's a disgrace how much jens jocked bj after that fight. I think it's a disgrace how these two guys have sat back on their laurels for years and "needed each other" that bad to step up and get in shape and fight. - b1spingisling, sherdog.net
We say
Jose: It really looked like BJ was playing with him. Pulver's performance looked really uninspired. When the fight was on the feet he was really tentative about exchanging hands, probably since he was KO'ed in his last fight and on the ground he had nothing on BJ. A move to 145 should be good for him if UFC can get that going.
. Damian: It's hard for me to say whether Penn was playing with Pulver or not, but I do find it kind of frustrating that Jens wasn't able to get a single aspect of his game off. In addition to the rumors of him cutting down to 145, Jens will supposedly be training with BJ and expanding his game. That's the best thing for him right now, at any weight. Add in BJ's seemingly improved Cardio, and I'm not sure we've seen the best of either of these guys yet.
They say
The final battle of the ultimate fighter season 5 ended with a bit of disappointment. After a dominating performance against Nate Diaz in the first round, Manny Gambruyan dislocated his shoulder and tapped out of the fight, giving Diaz the win and the ultimate fighter contract.
You say
exactly, that's what so great about mma you can be getting your @ss handed to you for an entire fight yet still pull out a win because of a sub or ko – ccl2087, sherdog.net
WTF U Talking About ? It's A Fight. 3 Rounds To 5 Rounds, To Get A "W" In Any Shape Or Form. That's MMA. NO Excuses. If U Lose, No 1 To Blame But Yourself. - David Corella, sherdog.net
We say
Damian: While these sort of finishes are a real disappointment, they are just as legitimate as any stoppage or KO and I think that Manny realizes this. The reality is that both of these fighters were already destined to be in the UFC already, so all this does is a set up an anticipated rematch and fill more seats. I do think that Manny needs to hit up some physical therapy though, and fast. That injury has come back to haunt him twice now and it won't fly in actual UFC competition.
Jose: Well it was disappointing especially since Manny was winning the fight at that point, but hey, shit happens and there will definitely be a rematch. Money, money, money in Dana's pocket...now all he needs is to learn how to deal with Nate Diaz speaking his mind. ;)
I would like to take a moment to thank everyone on the various message boards and especially those who wrote me about our live coverage of CFFC 5. It was an amazing experience and you can bet 411mania will have more coverage of local events across the country coming up. Keep checking us out for all news and rumors among the major brands as well. Thanks for reading.
