Ask 411 MMA 09.27.07: Built Tough

Posted by Damian Sarcuni on 09.27.2007

Tough man competitions, Brock Lesnar, the fate of Dan Severn, injuries in MMA and much, much more in the second coming of Ask 411 MMA!

Hello everyone and welcome to Ask 411: the MMA edition! I'm Damian Sarcuni and this is the column where you the reader ask us writers about any and all things mixed martial arts related. Then we go out and do all the research and detective work for you, posting our answers here for your convenience. It's a brilliant setup, really.

This week we have a nice healthy mix of questions and comments both from reader email and from our message board. Remember you can post your questions in the specified thread over at 411's MMA forums throughout the week, or email us at [e-mail].

Let's get this ball rolling before Dana White buys me off:


Comments and Corrections

I have taken some Jui-Jitsu and have been told (and also discovered) that a big part of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu as opposed to other forms is the emphasis on not just controlling your opponent but also putting him in uncomfortable positions. Something to the effect of why push the head away when you can push on the throat (same effect in that you get the head away, but a push on the throat is more unpleasant). Or, sure you can crank from the side, but wouldn't it be nicer cranking the arm sitting on his chest. A lot of those little things work their way in. – Steve

Are you implying that the Gracies incorporated anything other than the most honorable of battle tactics into their fighting style, sir? For shame! Seriously though, a lot of this comes down to personal style. There's no specific rule that says you absolutely have to rake someone face before choking them out, but at the same time I'm sure you aren't wrong in that a lot of Gracie fighters roll using the stuff you described. I think the best thing to say overall is that the Gracies took a lot of the useless form out of Jiu-Jitsu and went with maneuvers that are more practical. It should be noted that most BJJ teachers incorporate this stuff into their lessons these days, whether it be a Gracie school or not. As Carmine Zocchi once said, "If it works, it's a move."


You've Got Questions…



Hey zucchini I remember, way back in the day, watching MMA on my television and it wasn't PPV. I watched Matt Hume, Ken Shamrock, the Gracies and Tank Abbott fight and I think they called it "Tough Man".

My parents had Showtime but we never bought PPV's. I'm thinking it might have been Wide World of Sports but am not sure.

So can you figure out what show had Shamrock and the others on free or premium cable back around 90/'91

Thanks bro. - Nemesis

Ken Shamrock is reported to have entered three tough man competitions around 1988, the first of which took place in Redding, California. He supposedly won this by knocking out two fighters in a row, with his opponent in the finals claiming injury. Tough man competitions were banned by several states alongside the UFC in the mid 90's. Unfortunately, most tough man competitions are state to state local deals and often booked on the fly using amateur fighters. If you did catch a glimpse of something like that on TV, it was probably just a special report designed to showcase how violent underground fighting was back then.


Reaser2 gets straight to the point.

What the hell is going on with the HBO deal?

For those of you who don't bother with the economic side of mixed martial arts, the UFC has been negotiating two TV distribution deals with the HBO network and Spike TV, whom they are currently signed with.

MultiChannel news recently reported that Spike TV is still looking to renew their current deal with the UFC which would include sole possession and distribution of the hit reality show The Ultimate Fighter whereas HBO seeks to air "at least two live fights". UFC's distribution deal with Spike TV expires in 2008. According the report though, all sides are close to finalizing the agreement.




Mayhem Monkey is back and this time he's gettin' snippy:

Why did Ricco let himself go?

If by "let go" you mean "made himself a free agent" then Ricco Rodriguez has pretty much been an independent name since his three loss streak in 2003, which generally spells death for any fighter in larger MMA organizations. If you mean "let himself go far and beyond the 265 pound weight limit", the only answer I can honestly think of is the sweet and creamy allure of Haagen-Daz ice cream. To be fair, Ricco does manage to get in fighting shape every year and he did look good against Ben Rothwell in his last fight. Let the poor guy have his cheeseburger every now and then!


We got five rapid fire questions from Dirk Dillinger, let's break ‘em on down:

1) I've just gotten into MMA within the past three months. So naturally, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the massive amounts of MMA programs out there. Naturally, I've been watching as much EXC, WEC and UFC that I can get my hands on, as well as the HDNET's IFO. Okay...so now my question: Is there any "newbie friendly" place I can check out that will explain some of the psychology that goes into the matches? I've gotten to recognize a lot of the setups and submission holds, but I'd like to expand my limited knowledge.

I hate to say it but the first thing that comes to mind is digging around the forum archives on sites like sherdog.net and forums.mmaweekly.net. You won't necessarily find the same friendliness you'll get at the 411mania forums, and asking a question on those sites is basically the same thing as asking for an insult, but you can learn a lot just by reading through the discussions of yesteryear. Another great way to learn is by picking up old school Pride FC DVD's as Bas Rutten, Stephen Quadros and Mauro Ranello all do a great job of explaining moves step by step. Joe Rogan is also good at doing this on UFC's DVDs, but I recommend you stick to the 2005-2006 years for those since they are easy to find and slightly more noob friendly.


2) Since Mark Cuban is starting up his own MMA organization on HDNET, what will happen to IFO/Steele Cage Productions? Will they be sent packing, or will both MMA federations be allowed to air on the network?

So far it looks like there is plenty of air time to go around, as HDNET already features IFO, Art of War, and NABC all on the same programming schedule. If memory serves, both the IFO and Art of War share the same title belt, which is the IFA heavyweight belt held currently by Pedro Rizzo, so odds are all the orgs down south are all united under one big happy NWA style banner. If I was a betting man, I'd say we'll see several of those promotions being absorbed into one another much like EliteXC is doing now. Come to think of it, I am a betting man! $25 says it happens within the next two years. Any takers?




3) What are your thoughts on Brock Lesnar entering the UFC... or even MMA in general? I saw his K-1 fight and was less than enthralled by all 89 seconds of it. I personally think it could be a good move... but then again, the shelf life of the average MMA fighter can't be that long, can it? (with the exception of Shamrocks, Ortiz, etc)

Although I know it can never happen, I wish with all my might that one day the UFC will randomly cut to a pre-fight video of Paul Heyman doing a promo about the next big thing to hit MMA, then switch to that low growl voice when he always used to say "BRCK! LS-NR!" Like it or not mixed martial arts and pro-wrestling do have a history together, but I think that most fans don't really care either way and base their feelings on a fighter over what happens in the ring. Lesnar has the qualifications to be in the octagon for sure, and he seems to be taking his MMA training seriously so more power to him. I think all it would take is one really good, competitive match (see Don Frye VS Takayama) and he'll win over a whole new generation of fans.

On a side note, the shelf life of an MMA fighter is actually pretty damn long with proper training and care. Ken Shamrock may be far past his prime, but he can likely still put down most of the amateur MMA hopefuls out there and obviously Randy Couture hasn't slowed down with age at all. Since martial arts is such a lifestyle choice, I don't think there is any set retirement limit in the MMA ring. Fighters just seem to stop when they want to.




4) Whatever happened to Dan Severn?

Dan "The Beast" Severn's most recent MMA fight took place on June 9th of this year at WFC's Rumble in the Red Rocks event, where he choked out Victor Vincelette via submission in round 1. Severn fights pretty often (his record is currently 79-14-7) but he mostly fights against inexperienced competition in independent promotions. It certainly isn't the worst way to make a living I've heard of.


5) Dan Severn, Ken Shamrock and a few others have gone from MMA fighting to professional wrestling and then back. How is a segue into pro-wrestling seen by MMA fighters, and how would a professional wrestler coming into MMA be seen? I know that most of the fans don't care for it, but how do those inside the industry view professional wrestling?

The general consensus in MMA is basically that the level of competition has elevated so high that you can't be a pro-wrestler and a mixed martial artist at the same time. Both the training and the lifestyles for these two occupations are very, very different. At the same time, so many wrestlers have successfully made the transition from pro-wrestling to MMA that it would be a very dumb move to underestimate any pro-wrestler who steps into an MMA ring. In general, both MMA and pro-wrestling are physically imposing and they are viable career choices for athletes looking for a change.


What is the deal with all of those one night tournaments ran by random organizations all over the world in the late 90s? It seems as though most fighters starting at the time were debuting at a random 16-man one night tournament in rural Oklahoma. Who ran these shows and what was the purpose? – Huckaby

This goes back to our question about Tough Man competitions before. Basically, around the mid 90's the UFC began to really increase in popularity by putting together tournaments mixing martial arts pros with more charismatic brawlers like Tank Abbott, who didn't really have any credentials as a professional fighter. Seeing this, promoters began to realize they could make a quick buck just by throwing two nobodies into a circle and making them fight each other. This of course led to the development of some truly back woods promotion, some truly great fighters, some gruesome injuries, and ultimately ended in the UFC getting banned in several states across America.




What is the most serious injury (on record) sustained in a MMA bout? - highone

There have been plenty of nasty looking injuries in professional MMA fights, but the most high profile one that flat out ended a career came at UFC 16: Battle on the Bayou when Frank Shamrock took down Igor Zinoviev with a slam that knocked the Russian unconscious and broke his collarbone, ending his career.

Also worth mentioning: In another bout that same month against Yevgeni Zolotarev in Russia, American Douglas Dedge fell over in the ring from brain injuries and died two days later. There are reports that Dedge had a pre-existing medical condition and had not been medically cleared to fight in the United States, but these reports are unconfirmed and Dedge remains the only recorded MMA death.


And on that happy note, our second article comes to a close! Be sure to check back every other week for more of your questions and our answers. Remember to mail in all your questions and comments as this column thrives from your input. As always, check out all the great coverage on 411's MMA section throughout the week, and thank you for reading!