MMA’s Full 38’ 12.12.07: 411Mania’s MMA Holiday Shopping Guide 2007/08
Posted by Sid Needelman on 12.12.2007
Every year there are guides published rating the cars of that season for value and performance. People also spend $6 on a single magazine to find out what clothes will make them look great. But who lets you know which MMA gloves hold up after a workout? Who lets you know where to find a fighter’s official shirt? We do, and we have exclusive sale codes to save you cash on the items you want most!
Without further ado, 411Mania presents: The MMA Holiday Shopping Guide of the 2007/2008 Holiday Season
With only a thirty-five dollar budget for his nephew's holiday gift, Joe Example considers which MMA shirt with a skull on it to buy. He has heard of Affliction, but that costs too much, and he also knows his Nephew's mother, will kill him if the shirt is too scary for a ten year old. What should he do? He should read this guide. Below you will find out about the best items out there in terms of style and fashion, and how to get it at the right price. Keep reading to see what our reviews had to say about Pimpit Fight Team Shorts and Joe Lauzon's own brand of shirts.
A fighter or someone who trains, and wants to get themselves a good pair of fight shorts should take advantage of the holiday sales. The problem is that you never know for sure, what the quality of the products you are buying online will be. Here is where we help, we have assembled a great team of reviewers of all things MMA related including, gear, fashion, DVDs and even protein products. Here is what the reviewers thought, and where they think you should get the products. Just as importantly, we have arranged to obtain sale codes for discounts on those holiday buys. The guide starts from equipment, moving into fashion and then into gifts and miscellaneous categories.
Our first Category: Best Gym Gear:
Hands down, we have a winner here. A company you probably never even heard of, but is one of our favorite recommendations based on the wide variety they offer for "Pros and Joes" out there, looking to get into shape or learn some technique. Heavy_Hitters Fight Gear is just great as they offer a variety of items at a fair price, one that if you keep reading will be 15% off.
From focus mitts, to headgear, the Heavy Hitters Fight Gear has it all for the needs of any amateur or pro out there. How they differ is in the extent of the selection of their products. Our reviewers tested women's ankle guards, and hand-wraps which were both pink. They were of good quality, and pleased the fashion conscious fighting females who seek nothing less down here in South Beach Miami.
The focus on women's items with HHFG, is not a coincidence. Women have complained on message boards and at the gym about never getting equipment made for women. HHFG not only has great quality women's items, but also takes the time to make sure the designs are also appealing to women. Take their Muay Thai Shorts for instance, with pink stripes on the side and pink writing. Fits to the liking of the female reviewer, and the color made her smile and feel proud to show it off.
Go to Heavy_Hitters and type in 411mania for 15% off everything you buy!
A Great Buy On Fight Gear:
Not all fight gear companies are made equally but when it comes to a company with some good ideas, Martial Art's Pride is one that 411Mania's Shopper's Guide reviewers can be proud to mention. One of the best ideas every fighter has asked for, is that they should not have to buy their shorts from one guy, gloves from another internet site and hand-wraps from the sporting good store down the street. Why not sell them together says Martial_Art's_Pride? For much cheaper than ending up in 16 different stores, a fighter can get one set of everything at a much reduced price of about 1/3 less than if bought separately.
A pro fighter, David "Bags" Baggett, was kind enough to test out the equipment that comes in the package. Baggs, a middle-weight fighter, said he had mixed feelings. The quality of the items were not top of the line, though the value was better than anything else he has seen out there. Bagg's is a great fighter who in 2008 will make an impact on the sport.
Martial Arts Pride is also one of the few companies who ship out to APO boxes for our Armed Service personnel. How can you not support a company that supports the troops?
Rash Guards, not all equal, not all that interesting:
Some people do not even know what they even are, but for those who like the tight, spandex shirts that serve to prevent skin irritation, here is the best one we had the chance to review. One reviewer said, "The Spartan rashguard fits well and has a simple, no-nonsense design. In terms of quality, it stands up to any other rashguard I've used and doesn't feel as if it will rip or tear anytime soon. The coolest feature has got to be the anti-microbial coating. Although every gym should be cleaning their mats daily, there always seems to be cases of ringworm and staph popping up from place to place."
The reviewer, who happens to train out of a very clean gym continues, "the Spartan rashguard allows for unrestricted movement, it keeps the wearer dry with the moisture-wicking properties of the fabric, and most importantly it gives me peace of mind that I've got an extra layer of protection between me and some funky skin disease. That alone should warrant a closer look from people wanting a nice rashguard. A big 'Thumbs Up in my book and I'd certainly recommend it to others." MMAWarehouse.com was nice enough to supply the items in this category for review.
MMA Gloves, the key ingredient of modern MMA:
While modern MMA does not take place without gloves, many fans or people who train for fun, do not even own their own pair. I say this is a shame. For one, I think its fun when no one is around to wear them while watching an Ultimate Fight Night and pretending to be in the cage.
Mike Brown who recently won two fights coming off an injury, is back on track and was named BodogFight's #1 in his weight class. He also tried out a pair of training gloves for us. He tried out the Combat Sports Safety MMA Training Gloves supplied by Martial_Art's_Pride. Mike so elegantly stated, "They are tough, durable, and great for hard MMA sparring" and they have "enough padding to crack your training partners without leaving them with permanent brain damage." It is easy to see why he was awarded BodogFight's favorite fighter a few seasons ago. Currently, these gloves are reduced in price by five bucks in honor of Mike Brown's win on December 7th.
For boxing gloves 411Mania's boxing guru Ramon Aranda, suggests Reyes Boxing Gloves. He says, "Reyes boxing gloves are made in Mexico and are considered to be puncher's gloves. These gloves are hand made with the finest leather and fit very snug. Though other brands like Ringside and Grant are manufactured to protect your hands with extra padding, Reyes are all action gloves that are some of, if not the hardest in the sport. If you're looking for the KO, look for Reyes." Ramon adds, "I currently use Ringside for working out but Reyes are sweet for actual fights."
Best Mouth Guards:
Not all mouth guards are made equal. But they make for boring journalism, so for the best quality with custom-ability, check out Jawzz. The following is the quote from American Top Team's Mario Rinaldi about them. "Thanks to my JAWZZ mouthguard. It gives me added confidence when I'm in the cage!"
Mention this 411Mania's MMA Holiday Shopping Guide, and get $10 off your mouth guard at Jawzz until February 1st, 2008. All of the fighters directly below use Jawzz mouthguards.
Fight Shorts as Gear:
I trained mostly with these NAGA shorts. I still will use them, but I have more of an extensive collection to alternate between. I like these and recommend them. They are soft and when you train at a gym, you know more North American Grappling Association (NAGA) winners than UFC losers, and it is a great organization to support. Another cool NAGA item is the limited edition shirts they hand out the competitors who pre-registrar. They are only printed once, and are a free way to commemorate your participation in the event. Plus they list the upcoming events, so you do not have to remember.
Another great buy are the Cage Fighter shorts which you can see here. They are made from microfiber polyester and feature a 5" wide stretch fabric inseam panel for maximum flexibility. So if I was flexible to pull a move like Nick Diaz did on Gomi, my shorts would not prevent me from doing so. The 2" wide stretchable waistband is secured by hook & loop front closure with internal drawstring and they brag that they have included a hidden internal mouth guard pocket, and you will no longer have to put your mouth guard behind your ear like a hearing device. They also feel as durable as any other pair we looked at.
Best Retailer Selling Fight Shorts, Furniture and High Heeled shoes
Check out Pimpit.com as they really know how to mix up their inventory. Besides "stripper poles" for sale, they have crazy socks, fight-themed shirts and a bunch of other things to cover even the most odd holiday gift requests. Here is a description of one of their well known MMA related products.
The Pimpit MMA Fight Team fight shorts are said to be built like steel, and as light as a feather, and they are not far off from that. The shorts are designed by their Fight Team and design crew and have a front ultra-heavy-duty Velcro enclosure, and a power-cord inner drawstring to adjust the size when adding or dropping weight. Then, eliminating the traditional inside leg seams where the four pieces of fabric usually meet, PIMPIT have replaced it with a single stretch panel. This provides more freedom for guard work and increases overall range of motion. The MMA Fight Team Short is only available online at http://www.pimpit.com. They cost $39.95 normally, but if you enter " MMA" into the discount code box at check-out on Pimpit.com, you will receive 10% off on this item.
Shorts in Style:
NAGA and Cage Fighter do not have a monopoly on fight shorts that do not fall apart right away though. Have you seen the new Contract Killer Shorts? They are great. And you have to see these designs. The best part is how they strap in the front. A rubber guard keeps the Velcro from un-hooking and there is a double Velcro connection to keep them closed. While it doesn't happen in real life, the concern of anything falling out during practice is no longer there. While I have not trained with my pair for a long time, they seem to hold up very well. The company, once famous for the paintball products it makes, has crossed into MMA with a solid business plan and distribution. One place that carriers the gear is Damage Inc., described in last week's column.
The Venum Pro Series fight shorts, complete with style and quality, can be found here. Besides the money you will save on them with the discount codes further on in this, The MMA Holiday Shopping Guide presented by 411Mania and Sid Needelman, they come well recommended. Buckeye MMA is a great team out of where you may just have assumed, Ohio. Based from the city where the UFC will have their event the first weekend of March of 2008, this team sends fighters to regional and national shows.
Ben Peer of the team said, "The Venom 'Gladiator' shorts fit great through the hips and don't restrict movement at all. As a stand-up fighter, I need a lot of mobility for kicking as well as guard work for when I'm on the mat and these shorts didn't hold me back one bit. They're well designed, sport a commonly used Velcro closure system, and have side slits up the outside of each thigh. The material is heavy-duty, with a tough, rugged feel that may take some getting used to. The real highlight, however, is the artwork. The 'Gladiator' theme is pretty cool and the helmet looks great. Overall, the shorts look fantastic and although they may take some breaking-in, I'd still recommend them to anyone in the market for a new pair of fight shorts." I believe Ben is open to sponsorship offers, and his contact information is available upon request.
MMA Fashion Wear Broken Down:
To truly know what is out there, we had to break everything down into categories, and while some of them make sense, some of them are just funny. Take this next one for instance:
Best MMA Fashion Shirts Without A Skull:
As Affliction brand shirts swept the nation, other companies seemed to latch on quickly to the craze and some creepy skull and bones shirts soon emerged. So many brands out there are called something morbid. First we will discuss the best choices for those who prefer to stay away from pictures of blood, spiders and most certainly, skulls.
If you are looking to be nationalistic, these are some cool basic T's that you can get at MMAWarehouse. And yes, you can get Affliction shirts there as well, if that is what you are looking for and you can save some precious spending cash by using the discount promo codes: 411MANIA to get $10 off any order over $100, and BIGSPENDER for $20 off any order over $200.
Another line of shirts that do not rest upon images of skulls is PsyKO Gear. Ian Harris, a professional MMA fight trainer and Paul Arrieta, a graphic designer and MMA enthusiast began PsyKO Gear as a hobby and hope the company will have crossover appeal to other "extreme" sports and lifestyles. PsyKO Gear has its roots in MMA, but embodies the California Surf, Skate and Chill lifestyle. The simple shirt is basic and non-offensive but very cool. Great for when you still need your mother's (or wife's) approval before wearing your fight shirts in public. Unlike many other shirts out there, it is also priced to move at $18 dollars, and you can get an additional 15% off by typing in the code 411Mania when you get one, or anything else from the company. Women may or may not like the shirts they offer in the women's cuts. Some might find them offensive, while others know they play the part. Check out their gear and find out what I mean in terms of the women's line of clothing at the webpage.
Our reviewers unanimously also found the PsyKO jerseys to be the coolest of the ones they have seen this season.
Best Non-Skulled Hoodie:
When it comes to the non-skulled category, one of the reviewer's favorites was the Switch Fighter Clothing Co. Here is a picture of Emily Miller - IFL ring girl, in one of those soft hoodies and SFCC owner Jensen Hendriks, in the well selling men's T, taken at the NAMMAE convention in California. Also, Switch Fighter Clothing Co. is providing FREE SHIPPING through Dec. 31, 2007.
Switch Fighter Clothing Co. is not to be mistaken for fight gear, even though the products are durable enough to withstand fight training. The designs are a representation of the fight and fashion industries, and can be worn to the gym or any type of social setting. Switch Fighter Clothing Company is currently sponsoring Chris Manuel (7,0,1), and is currently talking to a hand full of other athletes. If you are a fighter and want to get the attention of Switch Fighter, send them a picture of you in their gear during practice to show them just how interested you are.
While Switch Fighter may make comfortable hoodies for men and women, this zip-up outerwear for women, comes very highly recommended for those who are not adverse to the sexy silhouette of a lady. At $39.99, the Fight Chix brand hoodie is something you should think about as a gift too. With the cut and fancy adjustable zipper, useful for that no shirt underneath look. You can also use the MMAWarehouse discounts on this item as well. Enter at checkout 411MANIA to get $10 off any order over $100, and BIGSPENDER for $20 off any order over $200.
One other alternative for cold weather MMA fans is the MMA Authentics' version. They use the same fleece that is used at Abercrombie and Fitch, so if you like that quality, but don't need to advertise A & F, go with this option.
Best Fighter Inspired Shirts Actually Made From A Known Fighter: Joe Lauzon started Slaying Angels with a friend, Brandon Chase. Joe, who is of Ultimate Fighter fame, and as the guy who ended Jens Pulver's welcome back party, emailed me to explain how it all began. "It was an idea we came up with last year and we worked on a logo for a while and have finally gotten it going. About a year and a half ago when I got into the UFC we started doing custom event shirts each time I fought. Our first shirt was the "Fear No Evil" shirt that everyone saw for the Jens Pulver fight and had all of our sponsors printed on it. Our latest shirt had a list of "People to beat up" on the back and we decided to start branding the shirts with the Slaying Angels logo. We thought the event shirts that everyone likes would be a good way to get the Slaying Angels name out there."
You can check outJoe's gear. Also check out his limited edition shirt from his actual fight. The "people to beat up" is both funny, and informative and I would suggest keeping an eye out for the women's versions of the shirts soon enough.
Best Fightwear With A meaning:
The "United We Stand" shirt I am a sucker for. Blind patriotism, and unity amongst tragedy. Man, I would think I was a sucker if it was not a shirt made by a multi-generational military man, who above all else, favors strong values. It is just like Paul, seen on the left, to take a picture with a baby. The shirt in the red box is the "United We Stand Shirt." Check out his website for other designs and a special American Air force tribute shirt. www.Oneshotathletics.com
And while on the subject of One Shot, let us finish them off in one shot. Here is a quick review of their female line of clothes by our reviewer Karalee. "One shot has ideal causal shirts for women that want to be feminine in the fight world. All of the styles (long sleeved, short sleeved and shear) offer a design that is feminine yet rock star in style, and the t-shirts feel soft and silky. The shear style made with vintage soft fabric definitely makes this shirt stand out as a favorite." The shirts are also made on the higher quality grainer look material, which separates them from other companies.
In fact, they often sell out of their woman's items at the shows they go to and that is why they are the Best Feminine Fightwear, with or without Skulls:
For some other cool female fight fashion, check out Bloody Knuckles Fight Gear who make mens and women's clothing and gear. Jeff "Ironshin" Strickland, an accomplished kickboxer now looking for a MMA bout at 205 or heavyweight, recently earned a sponsorship from Bloody Knuckles Fight Gear. "This gear is sick!" he said. He is "very excited about the quality of the shorts, rash guards, and assorted gear." The logo may be too involved to be the next Nike Swoowsh, but the designs are pretty cool without being over the top.
BKFG company has reasonable pricing and just narrowly escaped near destruction in the last California wild fires. The fires forced them into an even bigger working/storage area for better capacity to serve the consumers.
Best Feel Good Buy of the Season/Charity Shirt:
Do something good this season. "A gift that makes a difference...Six Deuce has partnered with Outreach Asia to create a shirt designed to help impoverished children and families in the Philippines and Southeast Asia, with 100% of the profits going to the charity. While this may seem a daunting task, your donations will help to build safe water supplies, upgrade educational resources, and address the medical needs of the poor and disadvantaged living in some of the world's most underdeveloped countries." Charity_Shirt_Info
Best Shirts Without Skulls, but With Warrior/Devilish Like Images Are Ok Here:
If you head over to www.mmaauthentics.com you can get a wide range of items from the Cage Fighter shorts described above, and the next line of items, "Familia Gladiatoria." The company sent over this blurb:
"Familia Gladiatoria – our art driven tee line… ultra soft tee, feel the material! Tagless, 100% cotton with a form fit opposed to the baggy. We try to offer different color ways as well instead of the typical black MMA tee. Visit our site to see the different "gladiator" looking lines (without a single skull). We are an authentic athletic apparel company which focuses on the sport of MMA. The Familia Gladiatoria line was developed looking back into the roots of MMA…"
The guy is in the picture is sporting a Familia Gladiatoria purple shirt, bound to be noticed for choice of color. The material is also amazingly soft. The female fight fan's shirt is from One Shot, as is the fitted baseball hat on the guy. This picture was from the recent Warriors Collide event in Florida as part of a series of events with a goal to give a local feeling to fight events.
Another great company who does some great work without skeleton images, at least at times they do not include skulls, is the Dropya Fightwear company. The shirt depicted below was the design that Renato "Babalu" Sobral wore at a recent grappling event. You can get Dropya shirts also are sold at fight gyms including Vermont BJJ and SouthSide JJ.
What you have been waiting for, Skulls:
While I voted the Dropya Fightwear Vale Tudo shirt The Best Shirt With A Skull:, I was in the group out voted by reviewers who still cling to Affliction brand items. At $20 bucks though, I think this Dropya shirt is cooler than at least half of the Affliction shirts, it costs a third the price, and actually says something cool related to the sport. For those who do not know Portuguese, Vale Tudo means "anything goes" or in order words, "no holds barred."
If you want a "biker" style skull , rather than a demonic version, check out the New Breed at www.iamthenewbreed.com They also have shorts, hats and women's clothing. The ladies shirt reviewed was said to be "perfect to wear to the gym or to a fight." And the company has a great catch line about the new breed of fighters.
Hostile Fightwear has both shirts with and without skulls for those keeping track at this point. The shirts are pretty darn soft, and are tag-less, a plus in my book. I could expect to pay $35 bucks easily for a shirt like this, but the shirts are being sold at $25, at least for now. If you hold them up against another shirt, you can really see how the quality of the fabric and printing is far superior. Go to Hostile's website to check out the great items you can get, and not go over budget.
One of the shirts we got to take a look at is depicted on one of the guys from Hostile, obviously not the guy in the picture you recognize.
Best Shirt To Buy To Support Your Favorite Fighter:
If you do not know, fighters make money in several different ways. They get paid to fight, often with a bonus to win. They also get sponsorship money if they are lucky, from companies who want to be associated with the stars. Sometimes though that's not enough, or maybe they just want visual support from the fans ringside. So the stars themselves put out a shirt of their own. Fight Connect makes it possible for fighters to have a cool shirt and make a few bucks, while not having to take time away from training. Mike Brown a fighter who helped review some products for this very MMA Holiday Shopping Guide, has two shirts available and gave us a quick quote: "Fightconnect.com is a great MMA company that houses Official on line stores for some of the best MMA fighters on the planet. If you want to sponsor your favorite fighter, buy from fightconnect.com."
You can check out Brown's two shirts here. I also think you should take a look at this, the Nick "The Goat" Thompson shirt too. When I asked Nick Thompson to help "pimp" his shirt, he gave us a great explanation about how he designed his shirt. "The shirt has a skull on it. All you need is a shirt with a pit bull, a shirt with a dragon and a shirt with flames and your MMA t-shirt collection is complete."
While at Fightconnect, you should also check out Cole Miller's shirt and order it soon so you can make sure you have it in hand for his upcoming fight.
And while it will not have the same grass-roots feel to buy one of these, Chuck's shirts are very well done. And you can still order them in time to get them before his next fight, one that may feel cheapened at this point, but still exciting.
Hats… all types…:
One hat already mentioned and depicted above, was from One Shot Other cool ones this season include the Switch Fighter cadet style hat, and also the Contract Killer hats which have the best designs of the season. The "in thing" these days are fitted hats. So that means that the hats that connect in the back, like yours did in junior league baseball, should be left in the closet.
If your goal is to get a simple hat that feels good to the touch, has the fitted look, and feels like it fits no matter whose head it goes on, head over to MMA Classics for a simple red and white X-Mission (think submission) Flex Fit hat. It fits perfectly, is simple and it is only $20. Visit www.mmaclassics.com to take a look.
When it comes to beanies, Dropya Fightwear has one available in limited release, and you need to contact them directly to get one. If you are just interested in keeping warm, for normally ten bucks, but on sale now for $9, check out this simple reversible hat out mmamuscle.com.
Fashion & Gear 4 Babies and Kids:
Yes, indeed. Let us not forget the fighters of tomorrow. When it comes to baby and child size Muay Thai shorts, there is only one place I found to shop. Not that I was looking, but Heavy Keavy Hitters Fight Gear also have "onesies" in toddler sizes. And remember when you head over to the website, type in 411mania for 15% off everything you buy!
Gifts and entertainment:
This is the MMA Holiday Shopping Guide, so talking about presents should not be something we forget to discuss. For those MMA couples in love, why not a frame like the one below. Martial Arts Pride has a bunch of frames, jewelry, posters, books and DVDs. Check them out at Martialartspride.com.
Not Sure Why, But Luggage Is a Gift Item:
You will see luggage as a gift item at wedding, birthday's and Bar Mitzvahs. I am not sure who thinks this is a great idea, but if you are going that route, why not add some kick to the gift. Without a doubt, Contract Killers had the best luggage, as well as backpacks and gear bags for that matter. Pricey, but without hesitation, the most consistently impressive in design and quality. The backpacks for instance, have padding on the back so the items you are lugging around wont poke into your back. Thank you for finally solving what should have been a solvable issue when I was in grade school.
The Gift of Learning:
Martial arts instructional could be a great gift as well, if given to a person who uses them. For a review about instructionals, please click HERE. A quote from my column published on 10/24/2007, found one specific item that I would be sure for the right person, would make a great gift.
"1001 Submissions by David Roy and Kirik Jenness. I did not even think about paper instructions, as we are part of the digital age, but they are on to something. I cannot bring a TV to the gym with me every night, nor do I want to switch in different DVDs, scan chapter and such, to figure out where to put my head on a takedown. The book is handy as it can travel with me. I open to the chapter I need in the 857, full photo instructional and I see what I need to be doing to get the move executed.
For instance, in most schools they neglect to teach heel hooks as it is just asking for injury and it is not useful in may circumstances for the novice, or intermediate grappler/fighter. So I wanted to learn how to do one and I turned to page 76 where various types are shown. For instance, you look down the page and decide if you want to learn how to do one from the scramble or from a straight ankle lock position. If you want to do it from the scramble, trap "his toes in your armpit, catch the underside of his heel with the blade of your forearm…" and you have five pictures taking you through the process."
MMA and Grappling Events on DVD:
Another good gift would be a DVD of interest. I suggest knowing which DVD a person wants before you get them a second copy of an event they hated. The LA Submission-X DVD was one of the best produced grappling tournaments DVD I have seen. Make sure to turn the commentary ON or you'll probably find yourself slowly not paying attention. For other MMA DVD's you should hunt down for yourself or someone else, take a look HERE and HERE.
And when you shop online for these DVD's, please support the MMA industry by buying your DVDs at Amazon's low prices, but with a small fraction going to help up and coming fighters find events to fight at and sponsors by going to www.MMAfighteronline.com or by clicking the direct link HERE.
Energy Supply:
We had no inclination to try out energy drinks and protein supplements for months on end to see how our panel of reviewers progressed. We were convinced however by the "big wigs" at the IFL to try out the Muscle Milk and Vitamin Water, protein supplies and lightly carbonated drink respectively. The Muscle Milk already in liquid form and in bar form, everyone liked. The powered style was too grainy when mixed up ourselves. The Vitamin Water was also a good break from water or Diet Coke, and when you see either brand at a nutrition store, it is worth a shot to see if it works for you.
And with that…:
And with that, I should have you on your way to buying some great gifts at a reasonable cost for your friends and family, and most likely, yourself as well. Have a happy holiday season and a great new year from everyone at 411mania and my column will return in 2008 after a little time away. Those who participated by being reviewers, suppliers of items, or shared information for this guide, thank you greatly. Those who did participate or those who would like to next time, please feel free to contact me as my future columns will feature other opportunities for people and companies to lend a hand. And check out Mike at Koster Design for your lighting and graphic image design needs.
Thank you again and we hope you enjoyed the *Please do not reproduce or copy this Guide without prior permission from its author. However, feel free to link to this page.*
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And for those of you wondering what is MMA's Full 38' It means: an octagon is 30 ft across with 4 feet extra on each side, for cornermen, doctors and camera crew. To know MMA, sometimes one needs to make sure they cover some of the lesser know aspects of it, and 38' represents a number a lot of hardcore fans would not recognize. But be warned, do not try to set up an arena without knowing how big the octagon really is, or there will be problems.
Sid Needelman
