411 MMA Fact or Fiction 02.23.08: Cro Cop's departure and the Cuban/Fedor/Couture trio

Posted by Michael Huckaby on 02.23.2008

Was Cro Cop's departure best for all sides involved? Will he ever return to the UFC? Will Mark Cuban's backing make a difference in Couture's lawsuit against the UFC? How would a Fedor/Couture fight sell on PPV? All of this and more in the latest edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!

And welcome back to another edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction. Joining me this week are bitter enemies that refuse to do this unless they go up against the other. On one side is our proud 411 MMA editor, Caleb Newby. Across from him is former news report writer and 5oz of Pain contributor, Mr. Adam Morgan.

Let's get to it:

1. A little late, Cro Cop's departure from the UFC was best for all sides.

Morgan: FACT. Let's face it. Mirko Cro Cop obviously wasn't ready for the cage, wasn't ready for elbows on the ground, and wasn't ready for the level of competition he was facing in the UFC. At times he looked like he didn't care to be there, specifically in the Kongo fight when he reportedly told Big John that he was "too old for this shit." At one point in time you could justify paying Cro Cop $650,000 per fight. But going 1-2 against B-level competition in the UFC doesn't allow you to command that kind of money anymore. Releasing him from his contract was the best options for both sides rather than get into a nasty contract dispute. Japan loves Cro Cop, Cro Cop loves Japan. I'm having trouble figuring out why he even came here in the first place. I won't say that Cro Cop and the UFC were too late in this decision, however. This was perfect timing for him to go. He had one win, one knockout loss, and a chance to redeem himself against Cheick Kongo and he didn't. Seeya, Cro Cop. Have fun beating up smaller Japanese opponents.

Newby: FACT. But it's a little much to pile on the Cro Cop hate now after two losses. In this wonderful world of MMA people go through losing stints and two losses isn't enough to crucify a guy over. Cro Cop has admitted as much in that he has under performed and realized he needed to change some things/find the fire he used to have. Look at Yves Edwards. He had been on a nasty losing streak but has returned to his winning ways and is now on a solid three fight winning streak. Liddell lost twice after ruling the light-heavyweight division for a couple years, but added a couple new wrinkles to his game and could well be on his way to a solid rebound as well. So fact is, two losses don't signify that someone is "done". The move away from the UFC spares the UFC from having to pay him much more than he is worth to American audiences at this point while allowing Cro Cop some time away to a more comfortable enviroment in Japan to fix his career while pursuing bouts that otherwise wouldn't be available to him, namely Fedor.

Score: 1 for 1.

2. Cro Cop will one day return to the UFC.

Morgan: FICTION. Total fiction. Cro Cop didn't want to put in the time to compete in American MMA inside of a cage with a slightly different style and rule set than what he was used to in Japan. He didn't want to train the wrestling that's needed to be competitive in American MMA. He's so used to fighting in a ring that the cage threw off his angles and his escape ability. When Kongo pushed him against the cage he had no answer for what Kongo was doing to him. None. Like I said, I don't even know why Cro Cop came over here in the first place. The more time has passed and the more you look at it it doesn't even really make sense. If Cro Cop knows what's smart for him he'll stay in Japan, fight in a ring, and be able to get by on standup and good takedown defense alone. And for that reason, he'll always be remembered as a guy who couldn't hack it in the UFC. There's no way he comes back, not after his first paycheck from DREAM.

Newby: FACT. Both sides have been much more kind to one another since their split than we are used to seeing so there is no reason to doubt Cro Cop will return. Cro Cop wants to add the UFC Heavyweight title to his list of achievements and he isn't doing that from Japan. The only thing that keeps him from returning is a continued losing streak which would then really put his career in jeopardy. Then again I am a rabid Cro Cop fanboy and could be just speaking on optimism and hope. Wouldn't be the first time.

Score: 1 for 2. Yes, the fact that for once Dana White didn't come out and completely trash a guy that left says alot to me about the situation.

3. The winner of Aoki/JZ will take home the Dream Lightweight Grand Prix title.

Morgan: FICTION. Let's not forget that this tournament also has plenty of other top lightweights competing in it, some of them in the top ten. Guys like Andre Dida, Mitsuhiro Ishida, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Caol Uno, Joachim Hansen, Gilbert Melendez, and Luiz Azeredo are all being listed right now as competitors in the Lightweight Grand Prix. Add that star studded lineup to the unpredictability of Grand Prixs and tournaments in general and it's hard for me to convincingly say that JZ or Aoki will win. JZ has a clear advantage, having won the K-1 Lightweight Grand Prix two times in a row now but this will be the deepest and toughest field that he's ever been involved in. Do Aoki and JZ have a strong chance? Absolutely. But to say that the winner of their fight takes the whole thing home? I can't put my heart into that statement.

Newby: FICTION. But this is merely due to odds. The winner of Aoki/JZ should be the favorite to win the tournament, but not such an overwhelming favorite to take them versus the rest of the field. Upsets can happen, and with many of these guys it wouldn't even be much of an upset were they to off Aoki/JZ. There are, what, five or six of the top 10 lightweights in the tournament? Them's some pretty stiff odds for either one of those guys to overcome.

Score: 2 for 3.

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4. Mark Cuban's backing on an HDNet lawsuit on behalf of Randy Couture greatly increases Couture's chances of winning his case against the UFC.

Newby: FACT. How "greatly" it increases Couture's chances is anyones guess, but having someone such as Cuban backing his cause and his business acumen (and thus his ability to employ a top shelf legal team) should do wonders. Especially if he pays off the judge with courtside Mavericks seats. But honestly, having a big name helping you out with your lawsuit isn't going to hurt.

Morgan: FACT. Bringing in an outside guy like Mark Cuban into the equation can only help Randy's cause. If all the legal wranglings are just between Randy and the UFC then nothing is out in the open and the UFC can make all the claims they want about their "ownership" of Randy Couture. By clarifying the legal status of Randy's contract it becomes more likely that we'll come closer to an end date of that contract. The UFC doesn't "own" Randy Couture. They may very well have him under contract but they can't keep a guy from fighting for the rest of his life. Cuban is extremely smart and this is an great move by him to bring all of the UFC's issues with Randy right out into the public. Well played, Cuban.

Score: 3 for 4. You guys aren't fighting like I thought you would.

5. A non-UFC sponsored Fedor vs Couture fight would get very disappointing PPV buy numbers.

Newby: FACT. But only because the expectations would be so huge. All the hardcores are going to watch it, and more than any other event we have seen it should appeal to the UFC only fans due to Couture's involvement coupled with the hype they've heard on Fedor. Of course this will hinge greatly on the marketing surrounding the fight but until we see it accomplished, we shouldn't assume that any non UFC PPV can draw UFC PPV numbers. As a personal note, hasn't this fight lost a little bit of its luster with Sylvia losing to Nog and Werdum beating Gonzaga? I mean sure I'm still excited for a Fedor/Couture fight but it's just not the same as it was even three months ago...

Morgan: FICTION. It really depends on who's putting the event on and who's promoting it. The bout is huge among hardcore MMA fans, that's a given. The casual fan, though, could be a different story. But you put a guy like Mark Cuban and HDNet behind the wheel and they could promote this thing into the best selling non-UFC pay per view of all time. We're talking about Randy Couture here, folks. No outside promotion has sold more than 75,000 pay per views and Randy could command 100-200,000 on his name alone. This fight would be the best selling non-UFC pay per view of all time. I wouldn't call that a disappointment.

Score: 3 for 5.

6. The internet groundswell will work and Fight Night 13 will get a three hour timeslot on SpikeTV. (editors note: this was posed the day before the rumor that this was indeed going to be three hours.)

Newby: FACT. Fight Night 13 *is* a three hour broadcast on SpikeTV, though if it was due to an internet write in campaign or an already in place understanding with Zuffa I have no idea. Regardless we will have an extra hour to take in what is perhaps the best night of free MMA we have seen thus far. We better get to see Din Thomas and Spencer Fischer in each of their fights too... I love those guys. What do I fill the rest of this space with since Fight Night 13 is three hours? I know. Best of luck in your new MMA writing gigs Adam. And whatever you do, don't turn into one of those MMA journalist d-bags, we have enough of them as it is covering our sport... you know who I mean.

Morgan: FACT. Fact of the matter is, the groundswell did work and we now have a full three hours of Fight Night 13 on Spike TV. And of course that makes me happy as I love free MMA. Who doesn't? We really should have answered that Kimbo question here but a certain someone didn't want to. It should have at least been some question about Kimbo for christ's sake. Huck, what are you trying to pull here? Anyways. Uh. Yeah..Fight Night 13 is already three hours, so definitely FACT. And thank you, Newbs, I will try not to turn into Kevin Iole. Er..uhhh. Yeah, Kevin Iole.

Score: 4 for 6. You're just opening yourself up for passive aggressive e-mails aren't you?

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Join us next week when 411 writers Jeremy Lambert and Bren Oliver square off over 6 more hot MMA topics.