Planet Tapout 3.10.08: Fedor and Rankings

Posted by Lotfi Sariahmed on 03.11.2008

We all know the news on Fedor. But in this week's Planet Tapout, 411Mania's Lotfi Sariahmed takes this opportunity to examine the rankings with the "best fighter" at heavyweight. Should he stay at #1? Lotfi takes a look at the arguments on both sides and presents two more rankings debates. All that plus Miscellaneous Musings and This Week in Fight Picks in the latest edition!

Welcome to the MMA column that cherishes his free agent status! It's Planet Tapout here at 411Mania.com and this is the man who's always looking for the best offer, Lotfi Sariahmed. The EliteXC deal with CBS brought some discussion from last week's Planet Tapout. So lets go see what the mailbag has for us.

Mailbag!
"BigAl6a" begins the discussion comparing "Kimbo" to "Cro-Cop"

"What EliteXC has done is keep the "freak show" moniker on "Kimbo Slice." But what about UFC calling Mirko Filipovic "Mirko Cro-Cop", with no mention that that's a nickname not his real name. At least Showtime mentions Kimbo's real name of Kevin Ferguson."

This is the part where I normally respond to your comments but "kungfukid" actually had a response for "BigAl"

True, but Cro Cop isn't famous for fighting guys in his backyard on YouTube. He is a legit fighter and wasn't given overweight, over the hill fighters to make him look good."

Thank you BigAl and kungfukid for your comments. As for comparing "Cro Cop" to "Kimbo" you just can't do it. They're both ridiculous moves but the comparison ends there. Like "kungfukid" had already mentioned, "Cro Cop" came in as the #2 heavyweight in the world. He came in with an absurd list of credentials and was already an established fighter. The UFC used Mirko "Cro-Cop" and dropped the Filipovic to try and prevent any issues anyone may have pronouncing his last name. Don't get me wrong I think the move was stupid but it has completely different implications compared to EliteXC's handling of "Kimbo." Mike Huckaby made a great point on last week's MMA Fact or Fiction. When you think of Kimbo what do you think of? I'd be willing to bet his street fights on YouTube would be the most popular answer. And that is my biggest problem that I was trying to get across last week.


Jamie continues on the Cro Cop v. Kimbo talk and some worries about EliteXC's deal with CBS.

Who cares about nicknames. I care more about who the fighters are.

Kimbo and Cro Cop are the exact opposite people as far as mixed martial artists go. One guy made his name fighting in backyards; the other is an active member of the Croatian parliament, a former law enforcement agent, and former professional soccer player.

The stereotype people who don't know about MMA has is that the fighters are street thugs - which Kimbo is. They don't realize that they are well-rounded athletes who are often well-educated people who contribute to society in other ways. Guys like Cro Cop, clearly fit this mold.

I have a bad feeling EliteXC may tank in the ratings - and blow a shot for UFC or someone else.


This first show is huge for EliteXC no matter what it may tell you. If it gets big ratings then that bodes well for what's to come. But EliteXC needs to bring people in for that first show otherwise there's no reason for people to continue watching. It's hoping "Kimbo" does that. I don't want to bash on Kevin Ferguson too much though because he has been legitimately training with some of the best out there in preparation for his fights. I'm not a huge fan of how he's been handled but I've already gone off at length about that. But EliteXC is banking on "Kimbo Slice" being that big ratings draw it needs for that first show.


"Somecoolname" (Shall we call him Lorenzo?) touches on Mark Coleman, keeps on with the Kimbo discussion and hopes for the best:

Mark Coleman sounded far too punch-drunk in his interview to be getting in the ring anymore. I also expect Lesnar to maul him.

As for Kimbo Slice, he may have earned his fame via the Internet and street fighting, but he IS training with the best to become the best. He is doing everything RIGHT ever since he started training for legit MMA. I saw his little training profile for his last fight, and he mentioned that he no longer drinks, smokes (cigs/weed), or carouses with lots of women. He also went to the University of Miami on an ACADEMIC scholarship, of all things, when he was younger. Personally, I think Kimbo makes for excellent network drama. The former thug now reformed and dedicated to becoming the best MMA fighter in the world. Whether he achieves that goal is what makes for compelling drama. I, for one, would love to see that transformation rake place. I hate thugs.


Lorenzo (Remember he wanted "somecoolname." Keep up people) I'm with you. Kevin Ferguson is doing everything the right way to eventually become one of the top heavyweights out there in a division sorely needing them. I want to repeat this point because I had a friend ask me about all my Kimbo bashing in last week's column. I want Kevin Ferguson to do well because he's doing things the right way and if you ask his training partners he has the capabilities to do big things. My problem is and always has been with "Kimbo" because of what he means to the sport. In the end it comes down to money and I understand that. But at what price?


Samer continues the Mailbag with some talk on "The Axe Murderer" moving down in weight:

Why is everybody ignoring the fact that Wanderlei Silva might drop a weight class to fight Anderson Silva? He said it himself, that he'd be ready to do it. Tell me you wouldn't want to watch that match. Not that Anderson might lose or anything.

You're absolutely right Samer. I saw the column over at GracieMag and I'd love that fight even if it were to be made standup only. But, everyone is ignoring it for now because Wanderlei has a bout with Keith Jardine at UFC 84. He's not dead and buried at light heavyweight yet and a win over Jardine keeps him in the discussion. But he hasn't ruled out a move down in weight and that would be one heck of a fight. I'd take Anderson though in that battle of Silvas.


In one of my more odd comments I've ever received in the Mailbag, I think "Andrej" takes me to task on my comments on the UFC Middleweight division.

It is funny how you say THE UFC Middleweight division is weak when Sam Caplan said it is the strongest middleweight division in MMA? He said it not me on fiveouncesofpain.com. Maybe you could learn a thing or two. Funny isn't it?

Before I respond, Michael Huckaby responded to "Andrej" in the final comment of this week's Mailbag:

Yeah, with Chris Leben ranked like 7th.

How can you argue with logic like that?


All right first of all, I want my readers to take me to task if I say something stupid. I have and will say a lot of stupid things. Don't be afraid to call me out on it but PLEASE don't hide behind someone else to make your critiques of me. I'm not perfect and if you disagree with me you have a couple of different platforms upon which to do so ([e-mail]). Please use them.

And Sam Caplan's site is just one of the many sites I go to for my MMA news. And I think even he'd tell you he's not the "be all end all" when it comes to MMA news and opinions. I saw the posting he made listing the UFC's Top 30 middleweights and in it he says the division is actually very good. Clearly I absolutely disagree. Does it have a deep middleweight division? Sure. It's the UFC. It's the biggest MMA promotion out there making it the easiest to pull in fighters. But that doesn't speak to talent. I understand Anderson Silva has basically ripped apart the division. But most top 10's still only have four UFC middleweights. One of those being Dan Henderson who's fought once in the division and could move right back up to light heavyweight. Rich Franklin, though he's still trying to straighten up his nose, is a legit top 10 middleweight. I understand why Okami's in the top 10 but I'd like to see him notch a big win at some point. Then there's Nathan Marquardt who's at best a debatable selection for the Top 10. So you have three "UFC guys" in the top 10 at middleweight. Now lets take a look at this depth the UFC has.

Going by Caplan's list there's Patrick Cote at #6, Chris Leben at #7, Ed Herman at #8, Thales Leites at #9 and Jason MacDonald at #10. Patrick Cote is 3-4 in the UFC and while I'm a fan of "The Predator," his ground game is about as good as mine is. I want someone to sell me on Chris Leben and Ed Herman…I'll wait.

There are some nice guys on this list that I think have some potential. Thales Leites is one of them. I'm interested to see what Michael Bisping (#13) can do at middleweight. If Kendall Grove (#19) can find a way to protect his chin he could make some noise. Martin Kampmann (#22) has some talent too. But we're talking about four or five prospects at best. Four or five prospects does not a division make. Yes, Anderson Silva has decimated the division. But the division doesn't have a lot to it.

The mailbag doesn't like to be lonely. It gets sad when it's lonely. So send an email or leave a comment. Leave a comment at the bottom or send an email on anything and everything to [e-mail]. Now lets move on to Planet Tapout for this week shall we?




Ladies and Gentlemen that was Fedor Emelianenko's last MMA fight. His opponent was Hong Man Choi. The length of the video was 2:08. The fight itself was 1:54. Combine that with his bout against middleweight Matt Lindland and the man Sherdog.com dubbed "The Last Emperor" (really?) fought a total of 4:12 in 2007. With the latest news that's come out that Fedor is once again a free agent, it might be a while before we see Fedor in a ring or a cage.

To say that I'm tired of this whole Couture/UFC/Fedor/Dana White Love Square would be an understatement. If you go to this or any other MMA site on any sort of regular basis you know what's going on. Even if you don't know all the details you at least know that Fedor v. Couture isn't happening any time soon. So I want to save you from all that. When there's real news regarding this situation we'll talk about it. There's been all this discussion about how Fedor basically cedes control to his management team in Apy Echteld and Vadim Finkelstein. To say the best fighter in MMA isn't involved in deciding where he fights is just mind-blowing to me. If that is the case, he needs to become more involved during this second go-around with free agency.

It's that premise that leads me into this week's topic, rankings. It's a subject I've wanted to delve into before but I haven't really had ample opportunity up until now. Two of the bigger arguments people have had when it comes to rankings are over the last few months are Takanori Gomi and the aforementioned Fedor Emelianenko (with Matt Serra right in there). While they're on two separate ends of the spectrum when it comes to their weight, the rankings argument for both fighters are one in the same. How long can you keep a fighter ranked at the top when he's either not fighting or fighting clearly inferior competition?

The first part of that question has been answered to an extent as most websites that offer rankings go the way of Sherdog.com. If a fighter ranked in the Top 10 has not fought in a calendar year (and in Sherdog's case isn't scheduled to fight in the six weeks following his year-long absence), he or she will be taken off the rankings. But what do you do about Fedor?

Here's a man who's fought against inferior competition in his weight class (I know Matt Lindland is ranked in the top 5 in most middleweight rankings but he fought Fedor at heavyweight). He fought for a total of 4:12 against that inferior competition in his two bouts of 2007. Going back before that, he spent three bouts fighting Zuluzinho, an over the hill Mark Coleman and struggled more than he should have against Mark Hunt. So since December 31st of 2005, he's fought for 14:09 and gone out of the first round twice if you include the eight minutes he spent in the first round with Mark Hunt. Only one of those men (Hunt) could even be considered as being a Top 10 fighter at the time.

So what do you do with a man whom, all the while, was and is considered the best heavyweight in the world and was, until recently, the best pound for pound fighter in the world? With another Fedor free agency period set to begin, Dream and World Victory Road seem two of the more likely suitors for his services. Instead of going through all the possibilities of where he might end up, allow me to direct you to Leland Rolling and the latest edition of MMA Analytics where he outlines it wonderfully. Lets say he ends up in another promotion for the money. What if Josh Barnett or Randy Couture doesn't (or in Couture's case can't) follow him there? What if Andrei Arlovski resigns with the UFC leaving Fedor with virtually no good competition to face yet again? Is he still the top heavyweight fighter?

At what point do rankings need to be based on fighting the best competition to maintain your place at the top? The same argument could be made (and still is being made by some) for Takanori Gomi. It had been move than a year between fights for Gomi and the rest of the lightweight division was becoming scary talented very quickly. After JZ Calvancante's win at the Hero's Tournament he spent some time at the top but once Gomi landed another bout and won he took back the top spot. To be fair, Gomi's case is a bit different from Fedor's because even in his return he took on Duane Ludwig who's a B-level fighter compared to some of the cans Fedor's fought. But turning the attention back to Fedor, there is another side of this argument to consider when it comes to rankings.

What does "best" really mean? I have to credit our editor Caleb with this one but consider this. Is there anyone in the heavyweight division right now that you'd make a favorite OVER Fedor? Couture's at best even money in any bout with Emelianenko so with that said, if he's not an underdog against anyone in the heavyweight division, how can you say he's anything but the best fighter the weight class has to offer? It's a compelling argument that's hard to argue with.

Another factor here that's unique to Fedor's situation is that he's a heavyweight. He's in a division that doesn't have many Top 10 worthy fighters. Just look at Top 10 rankings at heavyweight now. Many still have Cro Cop in the Top 10 along with Gabriel Gonzaga and until recently Cheick Kongo. It's a division with a Top 6 and the last four are just filler. So if no one is worthy of taking the spot over Fedor, why take him out of the spot at all?

Because these rankings aren't supposed to be about what someone else is not doing but about what you're doing. Rankings shouldn't be a top 10 of the best active fighters all-time. Yes, Fedor has had the best career among the heavyweights up to this point. But his last big fight is coming up on its three-year anniversary. Almost three years since your last big fight and you are currently the #1 fighter in your division? Something just seems off to me there. When it comes to rankings the fighters should be rewarded for what they're doing now, not for what they did.

In addition, when these fighters go to free agency they're looking to get the best deal possible and often times that does not involve going to the UFC (see: Fedor free agency negotiations Part 1). The problem is if free agents do not sign with the UFC, they're often sacrificing the opportunity to face top competition (outside of lightweights going to DREAM). So if these fighters make that choice to go somewhere else aren't they also saying screw the rankings? Mind you I have no delusions of grandeur, I doubt any fighter puts any stock in the rankings. But it's an interesting question to pose during the epic debate that is, "Where do you put Fedor on the list?"

Here are a couple of other rankings questions I want to leave you with before finishing up:

Where do you put a guy, like Josh Barnett, on the heavyweight rankings if he returns after being taken off for inactivity? Does he work his way back up or just jump back into the Top 3 or 4?

It's time for everyone's favorite rankings debacle Matt Serra. How's this for a hypothetical? Who is #1 in the welterweight rankings if the following happens? Serra beats GSP in April, Serra then loses his next title defense to Jon Fitch and GSP regains the belt from Fitch at the end of the year. Here's one more question for you, where do you rank Serra if that happens?


Miscellaneous Musings!
●Who's more disappointed about his knockout loss this weekend? Ken Shamrock or EliteXC?

●In all seriousness though, Ken Shamrock needs to stick to coaching in the IFL and retire from active competition.

●Are you looking for an upset pick in this weekend's Lightweight Grand Prix? I have one in particular I like. How about Bu-Kyung Jung over Mitsuhiro Ishida? I know Ishida's coming off the big win over Gilbert Melendez but I think Ishida's in a similar spot here as he was going into his bout with Takanori Gomi. A lot of people liked him over Gomi then with eight straight wins going in. He was a hot fighter but just froze against Gomi choosing to try and stand with him when his (Ishida's) wrestling is clearly his strong suit. Of course we know about Bu-Kyung Jung's bout against Shinya Aoki and the surprise there. If you were looking to pick an upset in the first round I think that would be it.

●I know Rashad Evans doesn't carry the same superstar power as Mauricio "Shogun" Rua does. But I'm still very excited for what's now become UFC 85's main event pitting Evans and Liddell. I know Evans seems to fit right in the mold of the guys Liddell used to always beat. But I think he could pull the upset. He has Keith Jardine to fall back on who beat Liddell not too long ago. On top of that, if there were ever a trainer I wanted in my corner for a big fight it would be Greg Jackson. This isn't going to be the cakewalk many would have you believe.


This Week in Fight Predictions!


Dream.1: Lightweight Grand Prix 1st Round!
Non-Tournament Bouts
Mirko Filipovic over Yoshihiro Nakao
Hayato "Mach" Sakurai over Hidetaka Monma

Tournament Bouts
Joachim Hansen over Koutetsu Boku
Luiz Firmino over Kazuyuki Miyata
Mitsuhiro Ishida over Bu-Kyung Jung
Tatsuya Kawajiri over Kultar "Black Mamba" Gill
Eddie Alvarez over Andre "Dida" Amade
Katsuhiko Nagata over Artur Oumakhanov
Gesias "JZ" Calvancante over Shinya Aoki


That's it for this week on Planet Tapout! Don't forget about the mailbag and comments. Send me your thoughts, loving, hateful and otherwise. The email address is [e-mail] .

We like Meehan. He made the banner. So in return go read his column. He's helping countdown to Wrestlemania.

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Make sure you come back next Tuesday for another edition of Planet Tapout! This week in MMA gives us a bunch of cards. The FCE, Cage Wars, Shooto, Icon Sport (featuring a fight between Phil Baroni and Kala Kolohe Hose), King of the Cage, the XFL and Gladiator Challenge all have cards scheduled for the 15th. Of course there's also the big Dream card on Saturday as well featuring the 1st round of the Lightweight Grand Prix. Enjoy the fights everyone.