MMA Spotlight 5.01.08: The Iceman Goeth?
Posted by Reuel Mante on 05.01.2008
Chuck Liddell's MMA career may be over.
He is one of the greatest fighters of all time. His highlight reel of knockouts over the years has provided incredible entertainment and will continue to do so for a very long time. Personally, I'm a fan of the former light heavyweight champion but I am led to believe that his legacy is on the downswing.
Chuck Liddell is coming off a unanimous decision victory over Wanderlei Silva at UFC 79. His next bout was originally scheduled to be at UFC 85 against Mauricio Rua. Shogun then pulled out of the event due to an injury only to be replaced by Rashad Evans. Then we get the news last week that The Iceman is out with a hamstring injury. As far as we know, there is no news as to when we can expect Liddell back.
Let's be honest, 2007 was the worst year of Chuck's career.
A knockout loss to Quinton "Rampage" Jackson.
A split decision loss to "The Dean of Mean" Keith Jardine.
A unanimous decision victory over Wanderlei Silva.
Added to that, most MMA experts predicted that Chuck would knockout Silva given his reach advantage and Wanderlei's fighting style.
For a man who defended the UFC Light Heavyweight Title four times and knocked out or TKO'd every opponent he's beaten since 2003, this is a bad year on one's record.
I've seen the picture of Chuck's hamstring. It's disgusting, to say the least. I can only imagine two things that have contributed to this injury. First, considering he was training to fight Rashad Evans, he was practicing his sprawl to avoid the takedown. Second, his age. He is 38 years old. One has to think that these two factors could be the sole reason for his near retirement. From his interviews, I have come to the conclusion that he may be the kind of guy who loves to fight but if he can't perform to the level that he was capable of, he probably wouldn't want to do it anymore. Now, I don't know Chuck personally, but that is the vibe I get from him.
Let's think about this for a second. Chuck's main gameplan is to keep his opponents in a standup war. He sprawls when they shoot for a takedown to lure them into trading punches with him. Anytime Liddell goes down, he explodes into a standing position. Just ask Tito, Vitor, or Randy how hard it is to keep the man down. If Chuck has injured his hamstring, is it possible he won't be able to get back to his stand up base as effectively as he used to? To be honest, his ground game sucks. Look at his matches against Jackson or his first fight with Couture. Sure, he was pretty beaten down when both Rampage and Randy were able to keep him down, but what about when he's fresh? Especially now when he's pushing forty and he's coming off not only a hamstring injury but also a knee injury in December of 2006. His legs may not be able to take the pressure anymore.
Anyone who is an MMA fan has seen at least one Chuck Liddell fight and you have to see that it's nothing but a glorified kickboxing bout. If Chuck wants to continue in his winning ways, he has to believe that he may not be able to knock out people like he wants to anymore. So where does that leave him? Believe it or not, Chuck has submitted a guy before but that was nine years ago. It looks like the Pit Fight Team might have to train Liddell in some more submission holds. Other than that, I can't see much of a future for him. Whenever he does return, his next fight will need to be finished in a knockout of some kind because there are a lot of doubts as to his longevity in the sport. How bad would it be if Chuck were to become the Hulk Hogan of MMA when his time was up years ago?
Honestly, does he need to keep fighting? Probably not. He has enough media exposure, endorsements, and personality to keep him in the limelight. Chuck has enough experience in the sport to be able to start coaching young fighters. Now that may not be a role that he wants but we've seen evidence of how effective of a coach he can be. When he coached in the Ultimate Fighter season 1, Diego Sanchez and Forrest Griffin were both from his team. I'm not saying that he brought them up from nothing to win the competition but his motivating coaching style and his team work demeanor helped. I truly believe he has a future in MMA but not in the fighting sense. But who am I to tell the Iceman what to do?
Is he still a great fighter? No doubt. Can he still bring in money and ratings? Absolutely. Is he on the road to tarnishing his reputation? Not yet. But it would be wise to cut off the bleeding before it starts.
So a man coming off a win over the top LHW in Japan for 6 years is on the downswing of his career? The same person who has two clean wins over the current UFC LHW champion via KO? I think you are underestimating Greg Jackson's gameplanning skills if you think Jardine won that fight on his own entirely. What makes you think his punching power has diminished? Any boxing coach will tell you that's the last thing to go after your speed, movement and technique. As for Chuck's fights being glorified kickboxing matches, Chuck very rarely uses kicks or even leg blocks these days compared to when he started, he relies on his hands a lot more these days, Thiago Alves mixes his stand up together a lot more than Chuck does. He's always looking to set up that over hand right, not a Mirko style LHK. I honestly cannot even believe this article because it comes across as very ill informed and to even suggest Chuck Liddell will keep coming back like Hogan has, with a fake hip for the sake of a paycheck, is incredibly insulting. It's a combat sport, people get hurt, that's the nature of the business. To write him off over one hamstring tear is ridiculous.
Posted By: Deklon 3000 (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 03:23 PM
I'm not going to comment on the column, I do hope that he bounces back to rock the world again because the man deserves to end his storied career on a high.
Posted By: Mark Williams (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 04:11 PM
"The same person who has two clean wins over the
current UFC LHW champion via KO?"
Uh, isn't Quinton "Rampage" Jackson the current UFC LHW champion? I think you got a little confused, Deklon 3000, because 'Page actually holds two (T)KO wins over Chuck, not the other way around.
Posted By: Wyatt (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 04:22 PM
Nevermind. I realize now you're talking about Wandy. For future reference, use more clear antecedents to avoid confusion in your arguments.
Posted By: Wyatt (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 04:24 PM
yeah chuck is older...and no i don't think that a decision victory over a suddenly old wanderlei silva is all that impressive...what bothers me about this article is the way it is written...poorly...if i were an english teacher i'd give you a C minus.
Posted By: romano (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 06:12 PM
I'm torn on this one..
I'm not someone who will directly slam this article just cause it's suggesting that the Iceman's glory days are behind him. But even before his injury we all knew that Chuck wasn't at his best anymore, don't get me wrong, he hasn't turned out into Ken Shamrock. He's still one of the top LHW in the world, his victory over Wanderlei where he looked fairly impressive proved that. But can Chuck even be on top of LHW division again? Unlikely. But in his mind, he must. He has mentioned on more than one occasion that he wants to win back
"his belt" by the end of the year. Of course this looks impossible now, and to be honest, i don't see how can Chuck ever beat Rampage if they fight again, not to mention how hard will it be to earn the title shot in the first place because of his 2 previous defeats to Jackson. I don't think Chuck should retire just yet, but he needs to be really smart, and be aware of some of his body limitations at the age of 39.
Personnaly, i wouldn't mind seeing him move up a weigh class, especially given how poor UFC's HW division is.
Posted By: Samer (Guest) on May 01, 2008 at 08:05 PM
Chuck is not gonna go out on a year like this. Nice try trying to ruffle feathers on the article. However, it sucked and was transparent. And want an arguement about age not being a factor? look Randy Courture winning the heavy weight belt after returning from retirement.
Posted By: T-Bone (Guest) on May 02, 2008 at 03:36 PM
Your article holds no precedent. Seriously the guy is a warrior. Age doesn't matter with Chuck. I hate people that try to use the "mma knowledge" to predict the future. You don't know what is going to happen. In this sport anything goes. People counted Couture out after Chuck retired him. Any one man can beat another man in this sport unless your name is Anderson Silva. I think you need to go back to your day job at the psycic network hotline.
Posted By: josh (Guest) on May 02, 2008 at 07:32 PM
I hate to say this, but this article carries the aura that it was written by an MMA ignoramus who thinks his opinion actually matters. You’ve really missed the mark throughout this entire article. To suggest that a hamstring injury (which probably wasn’t caused practicing his sprawl) will end Chuck’s career is stupid and demonstrates your naïveté on Chuck Liddell and MMA. Glorified kickboxing matches? And are Anderson Silva’s fights glorified Thai boxing matches? At least try and sound competent when you float an opinion into cyberspace.
Posted By: Kuch (Guest) on May 04, 2008 at 09:23 AM
Well, in my opinion Mr. Mante has a point. I don't want to see Chuck retire - hell, were it up to me, I'd like to see him KO people for years. But the man isn't young anymore.
Would the Iceman of 2005-2006 have lost a decision to Keith Jardine? No offense to Jardine, but the answer is an emphatic no. Would the Iceman of 2005-2006 have had to take a fight with the Axe Murderer to the judges? No.
As much as I'd want it to be otherwise, Chuck's glory days are over. With guys like Rampage, Griffin and Machida fighting for the title, I don't see Chuck taking the LHW belt again. As far as comparisons with the seemingly ageless Couture... I don't see that happening.
Chuck could be a great coach, a great 'face' for MMA - but he needs to know when to hang up the gloves.
Posted By: woody (Guest) on May 04, 2008 at 02:20 PM
Wow, Kuch. Considering that Mr. Mante writes the articles and you're commenting on it should beg the question of whose opinion matters more. By the way, 411mania is not a website that fighters are going to rest their laurels on. If a columnist is going to write if a fighter should retire or stop taking drugs or whatnot, the fighters and promoters are still going to do what they want.
I myself have talked to many people about this Iceman thing and all of them agree with the assessment that Chuck Liddell is on his last leg...heh heh. He's too far advanced in age that injuries like this hamstring tear will come up again and again. As far as comparing him to Randy Couture, there is no contest. Couture is a superior athlete and actually takes care of his body. Can you honestly look at Chuck and say the same thing?
Posted By: Frankie (Guest) on May 05, 2008 at 11:05 AM
Maybe so, maybe no. . . But it always really annoys me when a guy fighting top class oponents looses a couple and he is all over. I have said it before and ill say it again, THIS AINT BOXING!! fighters ar'nt protected, they fight just about the best out there. Chuck is still doing well until he prooves just a little more that this isn't just a hiccup.
Posted By: Andy (Guest) on May 06, 2008 at 07:49 AM
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