The Ground and Pound 05.09.08: Why The Ultimate Fighter Does NOT Help Fighters Part 1
Posted by John Curry on 05.09.2008
With The Ultimate Fighter series playing a pivotal role in the growth of the UFC, and MMA to an extent, the Ground and Pound evaluates how the show is not the best thing for a fighter to be a part of, starting with the fighters from seasons 1-3. Also inside the TOP SECRET article coming in two weeks.
One of the biggest factors in the growth of the UFC and MMA as a sport rather than simple entertainment has to be attributed to the success of UFC's hit series on Spike TV, The Ultimate Fighter. While there have been some success stories to come out of the series, many of the fighters who have participated and even some who have won have been unable to deal with the pressure of their newfound fame and have often fared worse for being on the show than they were before. Many of these fighters are no longer even fighting with the UFC.
In order to make a more coherent argument let's look at each and every one of the fighters who have participated on the show and see how they have done since. This week we will look at Seasons 1-3.
Season One 2005 Coaches: Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture
1. Bobby Southworth
a. Current Record: 8-5
b. Fights for Strikeforce.
c. Last Fight: Lost to Anthony Ruiz by TKO. 2007
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None.
2. Sam Hoger
a. Current Record: 6-4
b. Fights for: IFL
c. Last Fight: Loss to Vernon White 2007
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None. Did go the distance with Rashad Evans, Lost to Lyoto Machida
3. Forrest Griffin
a. Current Record: 15-4
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win over Mauricio Rua
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Mauricio Rua, Hector Ramirez, Elvis Sinosic, LOSS by Split Decision with Tito Ortiz.
4. Alex Schoenauer
a. Current Record: 14-9
b. Fights for: IFL
c. Last Fight: Win over Brenden Barret via Split Decision
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Brandon Wuiff
5. Stephan Bonnar
a. Current Record: 11-4
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win over Eric Schaffer via TKO
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Keith Jardine
6. Mike Swick
a. Current Record: 11-2
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win via Maj. Decision over Josh Burkman
d. Notable wins since TUF1: David Loiseau, Joe Riggs, Gideon Ray
7. Lodune Sincaid
a. Current Record: 12-6
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss Cory Devela 12/2007
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None
8. Jason Thacker
a. Current Record: 0-1
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss to Chris Leben TUF Finale 1
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None
9. Diego Sanchez
a. Current Record: 18-2
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Won by submission vs. David Bielkheden
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Joe Riggs, Nick Diaz, Karo Parisyan,
10. Josh Koscheck
a. Current Record: 10-2
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win via TKO over Dustin Hazelett
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Diego Sanchez
11. Kenny Florian
a. Current Record: 9-3
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win via submission over Joe Lauzon
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Din Thomas, Dokonjonosuke Mishima, Sam Stout,
12. Josh Rafferty
a. Current Record: 8-5
b. Fights for: XFO
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Kevin Knabjin via decision
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None
13. Nate Quarry
a. Current Record: 10-2
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Kalib Starnes via Starnes refusal to fight (Decision)
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Pete Sell, Shonie Carter
14. Chris Leben
a. Current Record: 18-4
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Alessio Sakara TKO
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Patrick Cote, Jorge Rivera, Terry Martin
15. Alex Karalexis
a. Current Record: 9-3
b. Fights for: WEC
c. Last Fight: Loss to Ed Ratcliff
d. Notable wins since TUF1: None
16. Chris Sanford
a. Current Record: 5-1
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Josh Greene 2005
d. Notable wins since TUF1: Josh Greene
Analysis: Not exactly the best place to start for my argument but I will. This season has probably gone on to become more successful than any of the seasons since. Forrest Griffin will be fighting for the title against Rampage Jackson, Mike Swick is gaining momentum, Diego Sanchez is trying to regain his stride towards a championship, the same for Josh Koscheck, and Kenny Florian should receive a shot at the Sherk/Penn winner if he defeats Huerta. There are a few, at least at the moment, midlevel guys such as Chris Leben who could become a pink slip casualty at any time with a loss, and Nate Quarry who has the potential but was derailed from action due to an almost career threatening injury. Some of these fighters on this list who I have not mentioned still fight, some for the IFL, WEC and other organizations, however have not made an impact in their respective companies. The rest of the fighters are back to their day jobs. A lot of the success I think of this season was that the expectations for the fighters were not that high as no one believed you could have a reality show and find a successful fighter. Those who were part of this season were allowed time to progress through the ranks and were not asked too much too soon, which allowed them to become better fighters. Those who are no longer fighting have been pushed to the wayside as non marketable or simply had nothing to fight for.
Season 2 Coaches: Matt Hughes & Rich Franklin 2005
1. Joe Stevenson
a. Current Record: 28-8
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss to BJ Penn
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Yves Edwards, Dokonjonosuke Mishima, Melvin Guillard
2. Luke Cummo
a. Current Record: 6-5
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss to Luigi Fioravanti
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
3. Josh Burkman
a. Current Record: 9-5
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Mike Swick
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Drew Fickett
4. Jason Von Flue
a. Current Record: 12-10-1
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss to Pete Spratt
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
5. Sammy Morgan
a. Current Record: 19-10
b. Fights for: Last fought for ShowXC
c. Last Fight: Loss to Paul Daley
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
6. Marcus Davis
a. Current Record: 14-3
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Jess Liaudin
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Paul Taylor, Pete Spratt, Shonie Carter (note: Currently has 11 win streak.)
7. Jorge Gurgel
a. Current Record: 12-3
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. John Halverson
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
8. Anthony Torres
a. Current Record: 5-2
b. Fights for: Last fought in X-1
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Michael Brightmon
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
9. Melvin Guillard
a. Current Record: 21-7-2
b. Fights for: Last fought in RITC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Eric Regan
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
10. Mike Whitehead
a. Current Record: 20-5
b. Fights for: IFL/PFP
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Daniel Sarafian
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Mark Kerr (note: Currently has 11 win Streak)
11. Dan Christison
a. Current Record: 11-6
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. John LeBlanc
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
12. Rob MacDonald
a. Current Record: 5-3
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss to Hector Ramirez
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
13. Tom Murphy
a. Current Record: 2-0
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Icho Larenas 2006
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
14. Keith Jardine
a. Current Record: 13-3-1
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Chuck Liddell
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Chuck Liddell, Forrest Griffin
15. Seth Petruzelli
a. Current Record: 9-4
b. Fights for: Last fought in Knight Fight
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Sean Sallee
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
16. Rashad Evans
a. Current Record: 11-0-1
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Michael Bisping
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Michael Bisping, Sean Salmon (Stephen Bonnar, fought to a draw with Tito Ortiz.
17. Brad Imes
a. Current Record: 11-4
b. Fights for: Adrenaline
c. Last Fight: Win vs. James Jack
d. Notable wins since TUF2: Bo Cantrell, Zak Jensen,
18. Kerry Schall (injury)
a. Current Record: 21-9
b. Fights for: EC
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Shane Ott
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
19. Eli Joslin (Whined to leave)
a. Current Record: 2-0
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Aaron Brink 2006
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
20. Kenny Stevens (Cut for not making weight)
a. Current Record: 8-7
b. Fights for: XTC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Demitrius Raymond
d. Notable wins since TUF2: None
Analysis: This is where the Ultimate Fighter begins to show how it can actually be detrimental to fighters who chose to participate on the show. The vast majority of these fighters had more expected of them based on the success of the first season's fighters. Of the twenty fighters who were on this show Joe Stevenson, Rashad Evans, Keith Jardine, Mike Whitehead, Jorge Gurgel are the only fighters who have achieved real success. Marcus Davis is included in this group of people although he left the UFC and was invited back and is now moving up into the top ten welterweights in the world. Mike Whitehead has gone on to find success in the IFL. Rashad Evans is a title contender, as is Joe Stevenson, and Keith Jardine if he beats Silva. Jorge Gurgel, while an excellent fighter, could be on the pink slip list as well if he does not continue to win. Some of the fighters who were on the show have gone on to obscurity as a result of TUF2. Eli Joslin will never be taken serious since he chose to leave the house because he could not deal with the pressure. Luke Cummo is on his way out of the UFC, Kenny Stevens does not have large fights because he could not cut weight. Many of the fighters who appeared on this season have records that are just barely above .500. This is a result of the increased pushing of the fighters or simply not giving them any opportunities after the show to fight in the UFC. The fighters are then forced to ride their name or try to dispel how they performed on the show. This is only the beginning of fighters taking a backseat to the reality show itself.
Season 3 Coaches: Ken Shamrock & Tito Ortiz 2006
1. Mike Stine
a. Current Record: 2-0
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Has not fought since 2003
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
2. Kendall Grove
a. Current Record: 8-5
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Jorge Rivera
d. Notable wins since TUF3: Alan Belcher
3. Danny Abbadi
a. Current Record: 1-4
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. J.P. Cristini
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
4. Rory Singer
a. Current Record: 11-8
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Chilo Gonzales
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
5. Kalib Starnes
a. Current Record: 8-3-1
b. Fights for: Recently Released from UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss by Chicken shit vs. Nate Quarry
d. Notable wins since TUF3: Chris Leben
6. Solomon Hutcherson
a. Current Record: 9-4
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. George Allen
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
7. Ed Herman
a. Current Record: 14-6
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Demian Maia
d. Notable wins since TUF3: Joe Doerkson
8. Ross Pointon
a. Current Record: 5-10
b. Fights for: CR
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Marius Zaromskis
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
9. Michael Bisping
a. Current Record: 15-1
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Charles McCarthy
d. Notable wins since TUF3: Matt Hamill, Elvis Sisnosic,
10. Noah Inhofer
a. Current Record: 2-3
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Bristol Marunde
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
11. Josh Haynes
a. Current Record: 9-9
b. Fights for: IFL
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Leopoldo Serao
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
12. Matt Hamill
a. Current Record: 4-1
b. Fights for: UFC
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Tim Boetsch
d. Notable wins since TUF3:
13. Jesse Forbes
a. Current Record: 6-2
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Chris Camozzi
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
14. Kristian Rothaermel
a. Current Record: 4-3
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Has not fought since TUF3 Finale
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
15. Tait Fletcher
a. Current Record: 4-1
b. Fights for: Last fought in X-1
c. Last Fight: Win vs. Auggie Padeken
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
16. Mike Nickels
a. Current Record: 5-2
b. Fights for: Unsigned
c. Last Fight: Loss vs. Stephan Bonnar
d. Notable wins since TUF3: None
Analysis: This is the beginning of the coaches feuds taking front stage over the fighters themselves. Of the fighters who participated on season 3 of TUF, only four of them have legitimate careers in the UFC, Matt Hamill, Mike Bisping, Ed Herman, and Kendal Groves. This does not state that they have championship level careers, as Herman and Groves walk a fine line of being pink slipped, Groves especially. The UFC does not want a champion with a .500 record or anywhere near it. 12 of these fighters have no careers and often fight in small venues if any at all. I say 12 because I include that pussy Kalib Starnes in here. At least he was released from "the most oppressive contract" to pursue higher things as I am certain all of the other companies are clamoring for him after the Quarry fight. The issue with this season was the ego of Ken Shamrock and the feud with Tito Ortiz. This was the only focus of the season, and as a result the quality of fighters was not important. Unfortunately, only time will tell on the four fighters who have gone on, but I see two of them out of the UFC by the end of the year. As long as TUF focuses on the coaches more than the fighters this will be a continual pattern as we will see in the coming seasons.
Next time on the Ground and Pound we will look at seasons 4-6 and summarize the gradual decline in the derogatory nature of the TUF and its impact on fighters.
Now for the TOP SECRET Information regarding an article that I will be doing next week.
So often anymore we MMA writers are referred to as "Keyboard Warriors" guys who talk all the shit but never step in a cage. Next week I will be profiling Combat Sports Center in Richmond, Virginia. Combat Sports Center is the training facility of such fighters as Jens Pulver, Jeff Curran, TUF7's Amir Sadollah, LeVon Maynard, and many others. It is also the home of the Annual WKA National Championship. I will be voluntarily submitting myself to over 50 submissions, a sparring session, and more with the 2007 WKA National Champion and others. I will let you all know how it goes. I will then be traveling to West Chester, Ohio to do the same thing with Jorge Gurgel at his school. I will let you know how it goes in a full spread. In the meantime check out our other writers and be sure to check in on our DREAM 3 Live Coverage Saturday Night into Sunday Morning. Don't forget to leave comments. I do read them.
I think it’s pretty cool that you get to attend those events and have volunteered to let them hurt you in ways you probably didn’t know you could hurt. Try to get some video if you can.
Posted By: Kuch (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 09:23 AM
Hey idiot, Sean Salmon never fought kimbo, it was sean gannon, also forrest didn't beat tito, he lost that split decision, do some research. Also the point of your column really isn't bein proven too well and it's been done on at least 2 other websites. Originality please
Posted By: Sofian (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Man do some research next time you post something like this, Sean Salmon beating Kimbo - have you even watched that fight, theres a bit of a difference between Gannon and Salmon. And TUF wasnt made to make the ufc a new army of fighters, it was made for basically 1 or 2 fighters to come out of each season as UFC stars.
ANd Leben being 1 loss away from a pink slip? Every fighter in the UFC has that hanging over their head, if they lose the UFC can cut you no matter what your past record it (see Jake O'brien).
Posted By: Mick (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 11:40 AM
i'd say that your argument is weak considering the successful fighters...i mean, do you expect every fighter to do well following the show? what you need to factor in is the fighter's potential before appearing on the show...this is another in a long line of horrid, unprofessional, down right stupid articles that fail to serve the original thesis...you should have stopped writing the article after writing the records for the first season...dope
Posted By: romano (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 11:48 AM
besides the forrest over ortiz thing and sean salmon/ sean gannon thing, Marcus Davis is not going to become a top 10 middleweight very soon. as he has never had a fight in that weight class...
Posted By: j (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 12:10 PM
"only four of them have legitimate careers in the UFC, Matt Hamill, Mike Bisping, Ed Herman, and Kendal Groves. This does not state that they have championship level careers, as Herman and Groves walk a fine line of being pink slipped, Groves especially." his name is kendall grove, not grove.
Posted By: j (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Yeah, this is a pretty pathetic argument. No duh a lot of the Ultimate Fighter contestants didn't pan out...THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO! Up until this current season (which is just all around awful), Dana White would only get a handful of fighters that are good or have any potential whatsoever and just fill in the rest of the spots with charismatic or annoying personalities. I think it speaks tremendously about the show when (in a company where a .500 record gets you canned) seasons like TUF1 and TUF5 have half of the fighters in the show making noise in their weight classes.
Also, you have to look at the fact that most of these guys are getting training from MMA stars and have the chance to build connections with them...opportunities that most of the people on the show wouldn't have otherwise.
Posted By: Pwnage (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 12:31 PM
5. Kalib Starnes
c. Last Fight: Loss by Chicken shit vs. Nate Quarry
hahahaha u hero!
Posted By: Stealer (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 01:17 PM
Forgive me for making some errors as this was finals week. MY LAST FINALS WEEK EVER! I thank you for pointing out the mistakes and I have fixed them. Try to understand. Thanks again.
Posted By: John Curry (Registered) on May 09, 2008 at 01:25 PM
Of course there is nobody from Season 3. That season should have just been titled "Bisping gets us British Fans."
Nobody stood a chance against him on that season (Hamill wasn't as good then as he is now.) The only purpose of season 3 was to build up Bisping and of course to hype Tito vs Ken.
Posted By: KSti (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 01:45 PM
The reason that the caliber of fighters has gone down since season one is because MMA has really grown, largely as a result of the show.
Before the show fighters who were not in UFC did not have as many options; so better guys went on the show.
Now, fighters can get into reputable organizations much easier. If organizations like EliteXC, IFL, Strikeforce, etc. were around then - the talent pool of TUF would not be as good as it was.
Lets face it, if UFC was still the only truly viable US option for full time fighters, you'd potentially have a show with guys like Jake Shields, Bart Palisheski, Chael Sonnan, etc., but because they have seemingly better options than a reality show - they take them, leaving the show to guys with generally less of a pre-show pedigree than the first and second year did.
Posted By: Jamie (Guest) on May 09, 2008 at 07:55 PM
Man, I love your articles....keep it coming dude!
Posted By: Robert (Guest) on May 13, 2008 at 12:27 PM
