The Ground and Pound Special 5.23.08: I Tapped…and Tapped…and Tapped

Posted by John Curry on 05.23.2008

Tired of being called a “keyboard warrior,” 411mania’s John Curry decided to do something about it. In a Ground and Pound exclusive, John Curry discusses his trip to Richmond, Virginia to see what happens backstage in an agent’s office and then travels to Combat Sports Center to experience exactly what it feels like to be put in over thirty submissions by professional MMA fighters.




I have always been a fan of the sport of MMA. In my articles for the Ground and Pound and my interviews one of the issues that people seem to want to label me with is the label of "Keyboard Warrior." While I may like the same fighters you do, or say things that piss you off or fighters off, such as calling Kalib Starnes a pussy, I really don't care. I write not to please the masses by agreeing with everything they say. I write to say what I believe. I stand by what I say as well. If Kalib Starnes wants to kick my ass (which he would easily do) for calling him a pussy, then so be it. That's not a challenge to Kalib, it is just a statement of my mentality. I will take the ass whipping but at the end of the day when I get out of the hospital, I will still look him in the eyes and say he was a pussy in the Quarry fight. I hope that people can respect that, including Kalib Starnes.





Being labeled a "Keyboard Warrior," however, is a completely different situation. The term "Keyboard Warrior" refers to someone who sits on their keyboard and types all kinds of negative information on fighters without the courage to either say it to a fighters face or even step into a fight themselves. I grew up with a temper, fighting and causing trouble. Times have changed, no longer do I see the reason to fight for petty things, but the will to fight is still there. I will never back down from a challenge regardless of the risk involved. I may bleed, bruise, and break bones but those all heal. Pride never heals. I know it is easy to sit here and type everything and hope that people believe you. The reality is some will and some won't. I have decided to take the next step. I wanted to show you, my readers, what goes on behind the scenes in an agent's office and most importantly what pain feels like when you are submitted.



When I first brought up the idea to Brian Butler, who is Jens Pulver, Jeff Curran, LeVon Maynard, Diesel Shelton, and Amir Sadollah's agent that I wanted to come down to Richmond, Virginia to see what happens behind the scenes at Suckerpunch Entertainment LLC., and to take a trip to the Combat Sports Center in Richmond where I would profile the school and most importantly be voluntarily put into more than fifty submissions without fighting back, he told me he thought I was crazy. When I brought the idea up to Jens Pulver he thought I was out of my damn mind. Apparently it is so rare for a journalist to willingly be put into pain for the sake of his passion, that all who hear about it think I am crazy. With a little coercion and a liability waiver, I set the trip up.




I left my home near Cleveland, Ohio on Tuesday night just before midnight to begin my 550 mile trek to Richmond, Virginia. After over nine hours, what seemed like fifty Mountain Dew's, and a bag of Cool Ranch Doritos, I arrived in the beautiful town of Richmond. For those of you who are not familiar with the history of Richmond, there are few places one can visit to see the history of our great country in such monumental proportions as Richmond. For example, when I arrived in Richmond on my way to meet Brian Butler at Suckerpunch Entertainment, I passed the site of where Thomas Jefferson signed the Virginia Constitution which would serve as the foundation for the U.S. Constitution. Just around the block from Suckerpunch Entertainment is a church that had its bell tower blown off during the Civil War that you can still see as it was never repaired. It's just a stunning city immersed in its history as well as the melting pot of modern culture.

Upon arriving to a discreet building, I was greeted by Brian Butler, co-owner of Suckerpunch Entertainment. Now before I go any further I want to discuss what my preset mentality of a fighter's agent would be like. I pictured some fat white guy in an expensive suit driving some $100,000 car, sporting a Rolex, with his only concern being the advancement of his own wallet at any cost who sits in some plush padded office that showed no signs he was really an agent aside from his autographed pictures of those famous people he has met. Think Arliss meets some shady backstreet hustler.

Here's what I met when Brian Butler greeted me. A tall thin athletic guy, sporting jeans, sneakers and a Critical Fight Gear T-shirt, there was no Rolex on his wrist, there was no fancy Armani suit, or gold jewelry. No pinky ring or anything of that sort to be seen. Brian took me inside to his office. On one side of the room sat a roundtable with six chairs in front of a chalkboard. The walls had various sponsor offers, different designs for t-shirts and an outline of future fights. On the other side of the room was Brian's desk, adorned with family photos and his computer. One of the things that really set the room apart from my preset notion was the abundance of Todd McFarlane toys….not in the package but set up as if there was no hesitation about someone picking them up and playing with them.

The first thing I wanted discuss with Brian was exactly why he got into being an agent for MMA fighters. Before I could get an answer from him it became apparent by a simple e-mail from one of his fighters who was upset about a recent loss. Brian showed me the e-mail which had nothing to do with an agent but more along the lines of someone who needed someone to talk to. Brian's face lit up with that kind of reaction when one of your children called. He responded back to him while I was there just reassuring the fighter that it would be okay and that he supported him and would be there for him. The first words out of his mouth were "This kid is a great guy, he just wants the rematch right now. I don't want him fighting him right now as I think he will be too emotionally charged to fight smart." This becomes the evidence of why Brian Butler is one of the fastest growing agents in MMA. Fighters come first. I asked him what he means by the fact that he cares for his fighters. Does he care for his fighters sincerely or in a way that a doctor "cares" about his patient for the right price? This was Brian's response:

""I support my family and income through my ad agency still for the most part and I have built that business over the past 12 years and have been pretty successful with it. (Brian has been featured in the Wall Street Journal). I don't want to seem like this newbie exploiting and living off the fighters I work with. The sport is still in its infancy and while it is growing leaps and bounds, the fighters in this sport still need to break through to be treated like an NFL, MLB, or NBA athletes. So am I in this for the money right now?? No, it's just not there. I am in this because I am very passionate about the sport and I love the guys I work with. Do I think I can grow this and make money? Yes I do and my experience of running my ad agency will be a huge asset in doing so. That is all I'm doing for my guys now in a sense. I feel in order to build them I'm marketing them. The most important thing to me about working with my fighters is that they have a personality that I can mesh with. If they don't have a personality that I can work with then I will not represent them at any cost. I want my fighters to be representatives of the sport of mixed martial arts. I want to change the way fighters are represented in the sport. Broaden their horizons and their expectations of what a fighter is. I will not let my fighters be taken advantage of. The guys I work with are my family. They crash at my house when they need to; they call me with their problems and everything. My phone is always on for them. There is nothing more important to me than my ethics. I will not sacrifice them for anyone or any amount of money."."

After watching Brian work all day I began to see why fighters like Jens Pulver and Jeff Curran chose to be represented by Brian. He is a fighter's agent. I understand why Brian and the UFC's Joe Silva talk frequently. He is someone you are just drawn to like. Just as we began to discuss some business, Brian received an e-mail from a company offering to sponsor Jens Pulver's and Jeff Curran's fights on June 1st for an unbelievably low balled price. Brian looks at me and says "I can't do it for this amount. There is no long term benefit that I can see and I can't sell my guys short." Now normally I would say to myself any money is good money but Brian explained his logic. He stated that if I lowball my fighters now, I will be lowballed by everyone who wants to sponsor them in the future. It made sense. This is a guy who has expanded his sponsorship outside of the traditional supplement sponsors and fight wear to include such non sports related sponsors as Paramount Studios, Activision Games, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare and others, so who was I to question his judgment.

As the day progressed more and more phone calls came in asking for sponsorship, checking on the fighters, and more. Then one phone call came that I was really surprised to see happen. On the other end of the line was the public relations person from the NHL's Chicago Blackhawks hockey team. My hearing aids perked up as I wondered why a hockey team would be calling an MMA agent. The purpose of the call was a mutual sponsorship between one of Brian's fighters, Jeff Curran, and the entire Chicago Blackhawks team. There is a deal in the works where Jeff would train the Chicago Blackhawks players much in the same way NFL players take ballet. I dare you to sit here and tell me you ever thought that an NHL team would team up with an MMA fighter to train together to improve their game. This is the type of agent Brian Butler is. He is expanding the horizons of what a fighter is and who they are sponsored by. Watch on June 1st on Versus and you will see the Blackhawks hat on Jeff Curran's head. There will be your evidence.



After a lunch of Mexican food from a small family owned restaurant from around the corner, Brian and I finished up business at his office and made our way to Combat Sports Center. I want to make note that at this point I had been up more than 24 hours straight. I want to give a special thanks to Mountain Dew for making this achievement possible. First we had to stop by Brian's house to pick up his training gear. Yes, I said training gear. Out comes Brian with his ankles taped, his fight shorts on and his workout shirt ready to go. This is an agent who isn't afraid to fight.

We made our way to Combat Sports Center in Richmond. When we pulled up to the facility, there was still a youth Karate class going on so we had to wait. In the parking lot I met Dwayne "Diesel" Shelton, a short, 5' 7" 145lb fighter with a 74" reach. To give you perspective on this I am 6' 5" tall and have a 76" reach. I have almost a foot on this guy but only 2" of reach difference. For those of you who do not know Diesel, his first two professional fights came against Din Thomas and Cole Miller. Diesel and I would get to know each other MUCH better later in the evening.



I entered Combat Sports Center and began to take a look around. The school was small but personable. Everyone knew everyone and there was not an ounce of discomfort in the atmosphere (Check out 411mania's Fight School Profiles starting next week for the full profile on Combat Sports Center). Brian left to go get me a pair of Combat Sports Center shorts to wear for my upcoming submissions. When he returned it was time for me to get to meet professional MMA fighter's Danny Ivy, LaVon Maynard, Diesel Shelton and Coach David Womack to go over the submission list I had compiled before I arrived, as these would be the guys who would so graciously put me in pain. After what seemed like the longest ten minutes of my life, they were ready to start. The nerves that had been absent for the entire day slowly began to creep in to the pit of my stomach. For a second my mind began to ask me in a voice that resembled Sam Kennison's, "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE YOU MORON!". It lasted only a second because as I said earlier, I back down from nothing.



My introduction to submissions began with Danny Ivy. Danny is this strong grappler who I thought for a second I could actually take. Boy was I wrong. When I first stepped on the mat to grapple Danny, I was told to legitimately try to grapple him. While this goes against my premise of what I had planned for this article, it gave me a chance to see how quickly the submissions could actually happen. I locked Danny in a headlock with the intentions of just holding on for a bit. It worked for a minute until I spotted his left arm popped out my right side. In a moment of my ego exploded and for some moronic reason I felt that if I could put him in a Kimura I could gain massive respect. Nope. All I did was unleash the wrath of a trained submission expert on myself. Within seconds I began to feel submission after submission after submission until the final Knee to Belly submission forced me to take a break for a moment to gather my breath.

After this we began to look at specific submissions. Below are all of the submissions I endured, a brief description of the submission, its pain on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being the lowest, and my final thoughts on the submission.



Below is a submission chart, you may have to scroll a bit to see it.

SUBMISSION CHART

Submission Name	Description	Amount of Pain 1-10	Final Thoughts
Achilles Lock	Compression of the Achilles Tendon.	7	The most painful thing about this submission is the gradual increase in pain of the hold. The longer you wait to tap the more painful it becomes and the more likely damage will occur.
Americana	BJJ Lateral Key lock	3	As my arm is rather flexible this wasn't too painful. However, the stress that is felt on the shoulder joint and elbow joint does become strenuous enough to make you realize it will break if you do not tap.
Anaconda Choke	Arm Triangle Chock Variation	5	This choke was right in the middle of painful. The compression on your larynx is the most painful and the longer you try to fight out the more the blackness that is passing out moves in. When the pressure is placed on the side of the neck versus the front of the neck it is still just as painful but it takes just a moment longer to tap.
Ankle Lock	Hyperextend the Ankle	4	This submission is not that painful but as it was pointed out to me that the pain is felt in this submission after the damage has already been done. The pain until then is more along the lines of uncomfortable rather than painful.
Arm bar	Hyperextend the Elbow	3	I really didn't find this submission painful. I think the problem I really had with this was the fact that once it is locked in tight there are two options tap or let them break your arm. Kind of an easy decision. The pain of this one is more like leaning forward on your arm during a pushup.
Arm Triangle Choke	Triangle Choke using the arms.	5	Again the issue with this submission is the quickness of which you can pass out. The pain moves throughout your neck up to your head but only lasts a few seconds. But those few seconds are enough to make your ass almost pass out.
Arm lock	Locking of elbow or shoulder joints	6	The pain I felt on this one was more in the shoulder than in the elbow. Again, if you don't tap you know it will be broken.
Biceps Slicer	Elbow & Bicep Compression	8	Absolutely freaking painful. The compression on your bicep while placing stress on the elbow is painful as hell. What really makes this painful is the fact that if you expand your bicep at all while in this move the pain increases so this basically eliminates an arm from your arsenal.
Can Opener	Style of Neck Crank	7.5	The can opener is painful as it compresses your throat placing extreme stress on the back of your neck. The positive about this one is the relative ease someone with knowledge can move out of this submission and eliminate the pain.
Chicken Wing	Modified Hammer/Key lock	1	Not that painful at all. This is just more of a complicated hold that prevents you from getting out. Anyone with any training would be out of this move in no time.
Cradle	Sit up compression	10	Holy Hell is this painful. Absolutely horrifically painful. If this move is locked in by someone stronger than you there is no choice but to tap. Again absolutely painful. The second most painful submission I endured.
Crucifix	Neck Crank Variation	7	The pressure on the back of the neck is horrendous. The longer you hold out the more likely your vertebrae will be permanently damaged.
Gear lock	Modified sleeper hold	3	As with all of the choke holds the pain is short but the fact that if you don't tap out to it you will pass out is what makes them so painful. I think it is more painful on your ego than on your body.
Gogoplata	Putting ones shin under their throat and pulling the other leg down while pulling the head down	7	This was actually really painful as the larynx is crushed almost so that you are actually gagging. The one thing I did learn about this submission is how difficult it is to put on someone when you actually allow them to do it. I understand why we don't see these that often which makes pulling off 2 in a row that much more monumental.
Guillotine Choke	Facing headlock or choke	7.5	The reason his choke is a little more painful than the rest of the chokeholds is the fact that the guillotine choke gives your opponent the opportunity to use their full body's leverage against you. By allowing them to do this they can put more weight on your neck which leads to the choke being more severe than the others.
Hammerlock	Pins opponent's arms behind back with their wrist facing upwards.	2	I didn't find this one to bad as I can touch the top of my head from a hammerlock position so this wasn't too painful. However if you push it to the breaking point this is extremely painful as you can feel the joints pulling and the tendons stretching beyond what it is supposed to do.
Heel Hook	Leg-lock that rotates the ankle	6	The heel hook is another one of those moves that really does not hurt until the damage is already done. I believe that with this move you would be forced to tap as this will have caused the permanent damage by the time you feel the pain.
Juji Gatame	Armbar variation with the arm between the leg	5	The big pain with this move is the amount leverage that you yourself provide to the submission itself. Again as with many of the armbars this is not so much as painful to be in but the fact that once you are locked in you are essentially screwed.
Key lock	Should lock where the arm is turned like a key	7	This submission was painful as your shoulder and elbow feel the brunt of the pain but the most aggravating part of this submission is that leverage that is created b this submission throws your balance almost completely off and hinders any chance of a recovery.
Kimura	BJJ medical keylock	6	The kimura was relatively painful especially from the butterfly position. The fact that all of their body weight is on you and any attempt to move only makes the submission more painful than it already was.
Kneebar	Leglock that hyperextends the knee.	8	This submission was very painful for me as I have a bad knee and you can feel the ACL and MCL just stretching out in your knee.
Leg Lock	Joint lock at the hip, knee, or ankle.	6	The leg lock is painful as it puts pressure on your knees, your hips and on your hamstring. While I thought a crossover would help it actually gave my opponent more leverage to use against me. Not fun.
Leg Slicer	Compression lock on calf and thigh	8	This submission actually showed me how amazing the world of submission wrestling is. It is a technical and almost medical science. I did not know my leg could be in such pain by simply smashing my calf muscle.
Locoplata	Gogoplata variation	7	Just like the Gogoplata, the crushing of the larynx is not something I would prefer to endure again.
Neck Crank	Neck submission caused by pulling or twisting the neck	7	This submission was painful on the vertebrae on the back of the neck. If I did not tap out to this one the vertebrae would actually crush each other and possibly paralyze me. The pain is rough as you can feel the pressure in your head and neck which almost disorients you after a few seconds of being in.
Omoplata	BJJ shoulder lock using the legs.	8	This painful ass submission hurt like hell. Your shoulder feels like it is going to snap off.
Rear Naked Choke	Choke from behind	6	This choke is almost as bad as the guillotine as you realize that once it is locked in you damn near will not be able to get out of it. You can feel the blood and oxygen being cut off to your brain which is actually more unnerving than painful.
Spine Crank	Pressure to the spine by twisting the body.	6	The spine crank is rough not only on your spine but on your abdomen as well. This is especially painful once your opponent gator rolls because you realize how quickly your body begins to spread the pain. It was a very complicated move to put on and I can't foresee this being something that would be used on experienced fighters.
Toe Hold	Leglock that extends the ankle.	4	With my flexibility this submission was not that painful. I did understand however that this was another one of those moves that the pain becomes apparent after the damage is already done.
Triangle Choke	Choke using the legs	6	This choke is painful dependent on how strong you are and how strong your opponent's legs are. If you have an opponent like I did had extremely strong legs then you are almost screwed immediately and have only a few seconds to concoct your escape. If you are strong enough to pick your opponent up then you could, and I emphasize the word could, have a chance to slam you way out of this choke
Twister	Type of head or body crank	8.5 ( the day of)/
10 (the morning after)	This is one of the weirdest submissions I have ever seen. It hurt like hell. My lower body was running away from my upper body. You could feel your spine and neck and abs fighting against each other in order to make coordinate themselves. The real pain with this move showed up the next morning when I awoke and realized that sitting up and laughing were something I was going to have difficulty doing for a few days.
Knee to Belly	Submission that forces the air out of the lungs and stomach.	10	I HATE THIS SUBMISSION! ABSOLUTE FREAKING AGONY! Having all of the air forced out of your body at the speed of sound is not pleasant. This was the one submission that made me actually stop and say I have to catch my breath.

After being up for 34 straight hours and enduring the pain of all of these submissions I walked away with several new perspectives regarding mixed martial arts fighters, submissions, and the role of an agent in a fighter's life. Fighters are more than just a form of entertainment. To many of these fighters, their lives are developed in their schools. Their teammates and coaches are their surrogate family. If you ever have the chance to step inside a fight school to just watch the camaraderie and trust that radiates through the air you will understand what I am talking about. Over the course of the next few months I will introduce you to many of these fighters, beginning with LeVon Maynard, so you can see what the people I have worked with are really like. The lessons I learned from Brian Butler have shown me that there are still agents out there who care about their fighters more than the money and believe that the sport of MMA is just beginning and as such the fighters should be presented as humans rather than fighters. I also realized why fighters must have a lot of time after their fights in order to properly recover. The effects of a submission can linger for days and I did not endure the punching and kicking that goes with MMA fights.

I hope that after this experiment I will no longer be labeled a "Keyboard Warrior." I do not seek acceptance from the world, rather I seek the respect of knowing that what I say I mean and what I say I will do, I will do. I want to thank the guys here at 411mania for helping me put this together. I want to that Brian Butler of Suckerpunch Entertainment for showing me there are great agents out there. I would also like to thank all of the guys down at Combat Sports Center for allowing me to come in and be shown a glimpse of their lives. I want to thank Jens Pulver for thinking I am crazy as hell for doing this. You know if Jens thinks you're crazy something must be loose in your head. And I want to thank you the readers for giving me the motivation to put myself through something like this.