The Ground and Pound 07.11.08: What If Fedor Loses?
Posted by John Curry on 07.11.2008
This week it was announced that Fedor will be fighting two more times before the year is up. With this information out has come the fans predictions about who he will be fighting with Josh Barnett and Randy Couture being at the top of that list. This week the Ground and Pound looks at why Fedor could lose and what would happen if he does.
Fedor is one of those few fighters that are considered untouchable by the vast majority of MMA fans. He is someone who cannot and will not lose to anyone. Unfortunately, in today's world of Mixed Martial Arts anyone can win any given match. I have to say that of all of Fedor's challenges Tim Slyvia will be his hardest one to date.
Let's start by taking a look at the two fighters and figuring out why it is possible for Fedor to lose.
Tim Sylvia has fought the top heavyweights in the world.
Tim Slyvia is no slouch of a fighter. For some unknown reason everyone is playing this off as if he is some kind of gatekeeper heavyweight with no possibility to win. Look at his record. He is 24-4. He has defeated some of the top heavyweights in the world such as Brandon Vera, Jeff Monson, Andrei Arlovski, Assuerio Silva, Mike Whitehead, Ben Rothwell, and his only losses come from Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Randy Couture, Andre Arlovski, and Frank Mir. While I understand that many MMA fans think Tim has lost what he had as a legitimate MMA fighter but the fact is he is one of the top heavyweight fighters in the world.
I understand that many people are going to jump all over me about how great Fedor is, and I agree he is a hell of a fighter, who hasn't lost in 8 years. He has also beaten some of the greatest heavyweight fighters in the world, including Matt Lindland, Mark Hunt, Mark Coleman, Cro Cop, Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, Kevin Randleman, Heath Herring, Babalu amongst others. The fact is there no other fight I can think of right now for Fedor to prove himself to the American audience than to defeat Tim. However, Tim's experience should not be overlooked in regards to his potential to win this fight.
Inside MMA Interview with Fedor & Tim
Tim Sylvia has the size advantage
The stat listings state that Tim Sylvia is 6'8" and 265 lbs. and Fedor is 6'0" and 235 lbs. Now before everyone starts jumping on me about Fedor's fight against Hong Man Choi who is 7'2" 365 lbs., Tim Sylvia is another caliber of a fighter than Choi is. Choi was nothing more than a freak side show who thought his size would intimidate anyone out of the ring before the fight even started. Sylvia will have the reach advantage and the size advantage to guarantee that at least on their feet he will be able to control the fight.
Tim has been training with Miletich Fighting systems
Now in most cases when a fighter is outweighed and gives up a significant size advantage to his opponent the game plan is to take your opponent to the ground and try to control them on the ground and attempt to submit them. Now I am the first to say that Fedor has a significant advantage on the ground, however I think that Pat Miletich will prepare Tim well for the fight and is fully aware of the potential for Fedor to take this fight to the ground. If this fight goes to the ground I am definitely going to say that Tim will be much better prepared than he has been recently to defend himself and potentially win the fight.
I think Tim has more to prove than Fedor
This is one of those intangible factors in this fight. I think right now Fedor is being built up as this indestructible Russian force that cannot be stopped. Tim is the kind of guy that takes this kind of stuff personally. When the time comes for him to prove himself he is going to do everything he can do to win the fight and prove everyone wrong. What better opportunity than against the fighter who is regarded as the top heavyweight fighter in the world? If Syvia can beat Fedor then there will be no room to doubt him.
Now this brings me to the question of what will happen if Fedor does lose. Will the fights that have been planned for October and New Years Eve have the same impact? I think the fact of the matter is simple, if Sylvia wins there is going to have to some sort of a rematch for the WAMMA title before any of the major events happen such as Fedor vs. Couture. The sad part is as much as I, and the rest of the world, would love to see Fedor vs. Couture or Fedor vs. Barnett the truth is if Sylvia wins then there has to be a road back to the title for Fedor. Worst of all, I think if Tim wins Affliction will be out a ton of money for their investment in Fedor and I might be jumping the gun here but I think the fan base of Affliction would suffer as well with the "unbeatable" Fedor losing. I guess we will have to see how the fight goes on July 19th on PPV. I for one will have a front row seat in my living room to watch what is the greatest MMA card ever assembled.
BE SURE TO JOIN MY GROUND AND POUND ARMY AT John Curry's Myspace. NO ONE IS DENIED!!
No offense to Tim but in no way is he Fedor's Toughest opponent. He will armbar his way to victory.
Posted By: Chris (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 01:38 AM
FInally someone who actually thinks Tim has a shot at winning. Personally I dislike Sylvia as a fighter and would like to see him lose... but everyone is talking about him like he's some Heavyweight joke... the man can fight people!
Should be a really great fight either way, and as everyone always says anything can happen in MMA.
Posted By: Brad (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 02:02 AM
Fedor does everything as well or better than Tim. Second, Nogueira already killed Tim and Cro Cop would too (and so would Mark Hunt). Other than a lucky punch, how can Tim win? Makes no sense to me. This isn't the type of fighter Fedor has to worry about. BJ Penn would be more of a threat.
Posted By: tobias (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 02:28 AM
Tim doesn't get KO'ed, but he has shown KO power (although usually from his knees and kicks). If (and it's a HUGE if) Tim can keep it standing, he just needs that one lucky hit.
If the recent version of Tim shows up, it'll be a quick fight with Fedor walking away with Tim's arm... if a pre-Sylvia/Arlovski 3 Tim shows up- where he's not afraid to bang, it could be a very interesting fight.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 03:33 AM
July is the month of UPSETS!!!!
Just like Rampage vs Griffin.
We will see the Last Emperor FALL!
EPIC FALL!
Posted By: Guest#3646 (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 03:43 AM
tobias: BJ Penn a bigger threat than Sylvia? Come on. Sylvia is, as the man said, 6ft8in-265lbs. Penn, as great a LW or MW as he is, is 5ft9in and 155lbs. Putting Penn in the cage with Fedor would be an even bigger mismatch than Lindland was (no offense to "The Law").
I'm expecting Fedor to win this, but if he thinks he'll win Tim with a half-hearted effort, he'll be in trouble.
All in all, I think the outcome of the fight will to a large extent depend on which Tim shows up. The knockout artist that he once was may well be a huge problem even for Fedor. Then again, if the Tim that fights not to lose shows up, he's the one with the problem. But, for the sake of argument, give the man a chance. He MAY make fools of us all yet. Remember what Serra did to GSP? Remember what Soko did to Big Nog? Griffin-Shogun? Jardine-Liddell? Gonzaga-Crocop?
Posted By: woody (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 03:47 AM
I hope Big Tim win's just so a Coutre/Fedor fight is less appealing.
Posted By: Guest#2750 (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 09:19 AM
I'm sorry, I think Fedor's fight history shows far superior opponents than Sylvia's. As is proven by the current UFC HW Champ, whom Fedor annihilated 2 1/2 half times in a row. (He was winning the 2nd fight, no doubt, cut was unfortunate). I can understand the need to be impartial, or to want to root for the 'Home Team', but the fact of the matter is. Tim doesn't have any punching power on Mark Hunt, nor does he have any power on the leg kicks of Mirko Crocop, back in his prime. Fedor not only beat both of the aforementioned fighters, but he ate everything Crocop had to offer without flinching (3 ax kicks to the head and neck...come on), and submitted Mark Hunt (That fight was definitely interesting...had Hunt not been submitted...who knows where that fight would've gone). But, to say that Sylvia has the power of those two...is well, just fooling yourselves. Yes, Sylvia beat Arvlovski, but his chin was questionable...whereas, Fedor's is not. Fedor's submission evasion is probably the best in the world (Given how he dismantled Nogueira who is considered the top BJJ specialist in the world). His ground and pound is something you'd see in your nightmares. His punching power? Well...his punching power speaks for itself.
Tim isn't a chump...and I want to make it clear that that's not what I'm saying here. I just don't think he has a chance at all...lucky punch or not, against Fedor. Watch his fight against Kevin Randleman, and tell then come back here and tell me if you think Tim could produce a punch as devastating as the slam that Kevin nailed Fedor with.
Morne
Posted By: Mornelithe (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 09:50 AM
Semmy Schilt > Tim Sylvia
Posted By: The Hope (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 09:56 AM
The problem with Sylvia is he's possibly the most boring fighter I've ever watched. I hope he gets beaten come the fight, but that said, he has a chance of winning. If he didn't then the fight wouldn't be happening in the first place. Tim's beaten big name people as well, not in a great way that I'veenjoyed, but whether it's boring or not, he's done it. I don't like the guy what so ever, but the people claiming he has no chance cant be true MMA fans, because in MMA anything can happen. It's just like when everybody creamed over Cro Cop when he came to UFC and in his second fight he got taken apart at his own game. Yeah he's a fantastic fighter, but that fight proved anything can happen, certainly when you write off a certain guy. As for Fedor, I'm not majorly big on him either, way toomuch hype, but clearly a great fighter, just somebody I'm not a major fan of. Should be a good fight, I cant say great because it depends how Sylvia plays his game, because nine times out of ten he'll play slowly and bore the death out of you.
Posted By: JohnnyPerfect (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 12:18 PM
i can't wait for this fight to be over...i'm tired of internet chatter about the subject and i'm tired of having to defend the greatest fighter on the planet and i'm tired of hearing that sylvia is boring and i'm just plain tired already...let's get it on, i wish the fight was today....dark knight and fedor next weekend...my miserable ass just may smile.
Posted By: romano (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 01:47 PM
ok so let me get this right, Tim will dominate the standup, Miletich is better than Red Devil, and TS has more heart than Fedor?? have you watched even one of Fedor's fights be honest. or wait, do you know anything?
Posted By: drew (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 03:20 PM
"He has also beaten some of the greatest heavyweight fighters in the world, including Matt Lindland,"
He's not really a heavyweight though, is he?
Posted By: ButchReedMark (Guest) on July 11, 2008 at 07:43 PM
@ Drew - Agreed, I'm not sure where all this questioning of Fedor's heart and skill came from...but he's yet to come to a fight ill-prepared. He's yet to show even an ounce of laziness in the ring. He wouldn't have gotten to where he is by now, if he would've half-assed it. Kind of insulting to a man who's trained as long and hard as he has, to insinuate such things...
Morne
Posted By: Mornelithe (Guest) on July 12, 2008 at 12:59 PM
not insinuating anything, but John I have a couple of questions, just to understand you better.
when did you become a fan?
were you a fan of combat sports prior to mma?
were you an athlete growing up?
I know that you've rolled with some guys recently, but seeing as how i've been pretty scathing with some of your columns in the past i figured i should understand you a little and where you're coming from with some of your oppinions.
and before you get defensive, i don't think that you need to be an athlete to understand sports, i'm pretty sure that howard cossel didn't play a sport in his life, but i respect his oppinion....so if you're not an athlete, what's your background in journalism?
Posted By: romano (Guest) on July 12, 2008 at 05:30 PM
why is anyone attacking john for his column. It's a good column. He didn't say that he even thought Tim was going to win, he just gave a list of logical reasons he could win. Fights where the underdog could win, even when he isn't popular, are good fights.
Posted By: Guest#7114 (Guest) on July 13, 2008 at 02:00 AM
I think even Alex Emilienenko could beat Tim
Posted By: tom (Guest) on July 13, 2008 at 05:40 AM
"Now I am the first to say that Fedor has a significant advantage on the ground,"
Ya, and I'm the first to say your an idiot.
Sounds like you started to write this column and then found it was going to be harder then you thought to write so you just threw some random shit together.
My dead grandmother knows Tim sucks on the ground.
Posted By: Cj (Guest) on July 13, 2008 at 07:28 AM
Morne - i believe you misread my sarcasm :D
Posted By: Drew (Guest) on July 14, 2008 at 09:21 AM
What happens if Fedor TKO's Tim in 36 seconds of round 1????
Hehehe
Morne
Posted By: Mornelithe (Guest) on July 21, 2008 at 12:45 PM
