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411 MMA Fact or Fiction 07.23.08: Fedor's Win More Impressive than Silva's, Jackson Will Never Return to Form, 'The Pitbull' is Back, & MORE!
Posted by Bren Oliver on 07.23.2008



Contrary to popular belief, I did in fact survive my trip to Anaheim for "Affliction: Banned", and, in the process, made sure to avoid upsetting any tattooed Russians using their tongue for an ashtray. For those wondering, I contemplated hammering out a "Punch Drunk Hangover" this week upon returning from the West Coast, but a two-and-a-half hour layover in Phoenix decided to take issue with the notion. Rest assured it will be back, with stories in tow, this upcoming Monday and I'm certain 411Mania's Morgan Marx has a few to share as well in today's MMA News Report.

Hey, who threw that rotten tomato at me?!? Fine, fine...on to the "Fact or Fiction" portion of this "Fact or Fiction" column. I'm giving one side of the story this week, while joining me will be our site's dabbler Wendell Mitchell. Dub-Mitch, as we in the hood refer to him, has his fingers in a number of Zones around 411Mania, writing about subjects ranging from his consistent work in MMA ("Eight Sides of Steel") to professional wrestling reports to DVD reviews, providing quite the smorgasbord of entertainment-related commentary. How will his diverse palette stand up to the heat of "Fact or Fiction" stadium? Let's find out!

Fellow 411Mania columnist...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. In light of his recent legal/mental struggles, Quinton "Rampage" Jackson will never return to championship form.


Wendell Mitchell: FICTION. We all have our bad days. Rampage just had a really bad one. As a fan of the guy, I hope he takes this opportunity to be with his family and take a break from the sport. I believe that if and when he's ready to come back, he will be back in championship form. Rampage doesn't strike me as the sort of fighter that will accept being a shell of his former self.


Bren Oliver: FICTION. My answer is based purely on the available information on Jackson's status. If he ends up behind bars for an extended period of time, or his emotional problems are more severe than what's been reported thus far, then I would likely change my opinion on the matter. However, such is not the case, and he's still a relatively young fighter who should be entering the best years of his career from an age standpoint. He's gotten help, and appears to have a strong support group in terms of friends and family, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume "Rampage" will get over this hump in his life and be a better person for it. I see Jackson as the kind of individual who will want to redeem himself in the eyes of his family, friends, and fans, and will work twice as hard in order to achieve that noble goal.


SCORE: 1 for 1.


2. It would be a mistake for Brandon Vera to drop to Light Heavyweight again based on his performance at Fight Night 14.


Wendell Mitchell: FICTION. I think Vera is a good fit at 205. Despite Light Heavyweight being one of, if not the, deepest division, I see no ,mistake in Vera competing; especially if you consider his first fight was not horrible. Lacking in excitement, yes, but not a bad debut. What would be a mistake is if he bounces back and forth between 205 and Heavy. For now, I anticipate his next fight at 205.


Bren Oliver: FICTION. I'm willing to give Brandon Vera one more shot at Light Heavyweight before finalizing my take on his future at 205 pounds. I assume the first time a fighter drops to a lower weightclass is generally the toughest, as the individual is still feeling out the process and may even suffer a mental setback where he/she takes an overly cautious approach in the ring to supplement a perceived lack of power brought on by the reduced weight. However, if Vera is unable to finish his next opponent at LHW, as he should have against Andy, or appears to gas early in the fight, I think it's safe to say he's better off sticking to Heavyweight (especially given the divisions' differences in depth).


SCORE: 2 for 2.


3. Cain Velasquez will one day be UFC Heavyweight Champion.


Wendell Mitchell: FACT. This is a difficult one because though I'm half way decent predicting winners of fights, my foresight only extends so far. I say "fact" only because the Heavyweight Division is not as deep as it was even four months ago. Cain is untested, having yet to leave the first round in his first four fights, but I have a feeling he would match up well with any of the other Heavyweights.


Bren Oliver: FACT. I'm only saying "fact" because he is young, has received a high amount of praise from anyone who has seen him train, and not only is the UFC's Heavyweight Division a bit thin, but it's also a bit long in the tooth. Velasquez has a good 4-6 years before he's reached the age most-associated with a fighter's prime. After the same time span, and to Cain's benefit, the bulk of the UFC's current top Heavyweights will be in their mid-to-late thirties - a time typically viewed as the dog days of a Mixed Martial Artist's career. With more experience under his belt, and assuming he progresses outside of the ring as he's expected to, I definitely can see Velasquez eventually bringing the title home to American Kickboxing Academy.


SCORE: 3 for 3.


---SWITCH!!!---


4. Vitor Belfort will remain undefeated as a Middleweight until facing "Top 5" competition.


Bren Oliver: FACT. I'm torn here. While I was impressed by Belfort's performance against Terry Martin, I can't forget Martin has been separated from conciousness before and on more than one occasion. There are plenty of good Middleweights who aren't considered "Top 5" (Cung Le, Frank Shamrock, Robbie Lawler, Frank Trigg, etc.) that I could see beating Belfort, yet I think his association with XTreme Couture will only make him a better fighter and it's not as if he's ever lost to a chump in his career. His eight defeats read like this - Randy Couture, Kazushi Sakuraba, Liddell, Couture again, Tito Ortiz, Alistair Overeem twice in a row, and then Dan Henderson. Hardly losses to hang one's head over, eh?

I'm going to stick with "fact" simply because I'm not sure he will ever face "Top 5" competition, at least outside of the UFC, and I'm unsure as to whether or not ProElite is willing to work with Affliction. That leaves Matt Lindland as the only other legitimate Middleweight under Affliction contract and I'd say it's a toss-up between the two. "The Law" didn't look particularly good against an inferior opponent (Fabio Negao), plus he's shown his chin is vulnerable and Belfort packs dynamite in his gloves.

Also, I'd like to add that if Vitor is able to rack up three wins in Affliction, and thereby fulfill his contractual obligation to the organization, I would urge the UFC to consider signing the veteran of twelve Octagon appearances to a deal and bringing him back to the organization he made his name in. The crowd in Anaheim was as loud for Belfort as they were for Fedor Emelianenko. It was truly a bit awe-inspiring to witness an arena of 13,000+ chanting "Bel-fort, Bel-fort" and their enthusiasm made it clear to me that the MMA community has a soft spot in their heart for the Brazilian. After what he's been through in his life, and the success he's known in Mixed Martial Arts, it's hard to fault them for it.


Wendell Mitchell: FACT. I respect Belfort and that was an awesome finish to his fight this past Saturday, but if and when Affliction signs a "Top Five" Middleweight, my gut tells me to bet against "The Phenom."


SCORE: 4 for 4.


5. Based on "The Pitbull" picking apart, and eventually knocking out, Ben Rothwell, it's safe to say the "old" Andrei Arlovski is back.


Bren Oliver: FICTION. I don't think he ever left. Sure, he jabbed the crowd unconcious in a decision-loss to Tim Sylvia at UFC 61, and he got bitch-slapped in a boring decision-win over Fabricio Werdum, but I fault Sylvia and Werdum as much for their unwillingness to engage as I do Arlovski. Beyond those two forgettable performances, which are the only decisions of his career, he has been involved in a number of slugfests where he or his opponent got a nice look at the rafters due to a brain-fizzling exchange of punches. Ben Rothwell is simply another name in that series of strike-based stoppages.


Wendell Mitchell: FACT. Two straight knock out victories leads me to believe that the old "Pitbull" is back. The question is, for how long? Will the change in environment allow the animal to run free? Only time will tell. From what I see, up next for him is a professional boxing bout, so who knows how it will affect his next MMA fight?


SCORE: 4 for 5.


6. Fedor Emelianenko's performance against Tim Sylvia was more impressive than Anderson Silva's domination of James Irvin at Light Heavyweight.


Bren Oliver: FACT. Anderson Silva may have been fighting out of his usual division, but he naturally walks around at over 200 pounds and the additional weight fits his frame quite well. Plus, if weight is truly a determining factor in the equation, then it should also be said Emelianenko gave up 20-30 pounds to Tim Sylvia even though each fights as a Heavyweight. James Irvin was knocked out by Mike Kyle and submitted by Stephan Bonnar. He has never defeated a "Top 10" opponent. Tim Sylvia is a three-time UFC Heavyweight Champion, even carrying the belt in 2007, and Fedor destroyed him in less than a minute.


Wendell Mitchell: FICTION. We all went into Saturday knowing "The Spider" and "The Last Emperor" were going to emerge victorious in their fights. Originally, I was leaning towards "fact", but I just felt that Silva knocking Irvin out cold was slightly more impressive than Fedor taking half that time to choke out Sylvia. I chalk it up to me thinking Irvin had a much better chance of sneaking away with a victory than Sylvia did so, in essence, Silva beat a superior opponent.


SCORE: 4 for 6.


----

Join us next week when two more participants discuss more fallout from "Fight Night 14" and "Affliction: Banned", plus DREAM Grand Prix results, and a few other issues lingering out there in the land o' MMA ...


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Comments (36)

 
Silva beat a superior opponent - Irvin??? Are you serious... Irvin isn't even top 15 LHW whereas Sylvia is definately top 10/5 before the fight. Bren Oliver at least got it right.

Posted By: Craig (Guest)  on July 22, 2008 at 11:12 PM

 
 
Sylvia is only top 10 cuz the HW division has nobody in it.

Where as the LHW is one of the best/deepest in the world.


Posted By: SYC (Guest)  on July 22, 2008 at 11:57 PM

 
 
Fact or fiction - Wenedell Mitchell just made the most ridiculous statement of the year. Fact.

Posted By: tobias (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 12:21 AM

 
 
Uhmmm, I'm no math wizard but shouldn't the final tally be four for six, since the last two were disagreements? Just pointing it out. Entertaining read as always.

Posted By: Spabb (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 12:27 AM

 
 
I'd like to add my name to the list of people that think that Irvin being a superior opponent over sylvia, is by far one of the worst comments i've ever heard... please if you going to have people weigh in on topics at least make sure there slightly coherant...

Posted By: Guest#5869 (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 02:15 AM

 
 
^add a forth

Posted By: dumb,dumb,dumb (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 02:56 AM

 
 
"I just felt that Silva knocking Irvin out cold was slightly more impressive than Fedor taking half that time to choke out Sylvia. I chalk it up to me thinking Irvin had a much better chance of sneaking away with a victory than Sylvia did so, in essence, Silva beat a superior opponent. ...Silva beat a superior opponent. "

_____________________________

Wow... seriously- wow.


Posted By: cyks (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 03:52 AM

 
 
Wendell, Tim Sylvia was arguably the most dominant heavyweight in the UFC over the past 5 years. James Irvin barely breaks the top-15 mark in the UFC, probably the top-25 mark overall.

Come on dude, subbing a multi-time heavyweight champion in 36 seconds is less impressive than knocking out a guy who in the UFC's big picture, is a relative spare? You gotta be kiddin me.


Posted By: Matt (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 04:42 AM

 
 
He worded it akwardly, but you can see what he is saying. Calm down, Fedor fanboys. Are you super mad because one quality win didnt push The Last Emperor back to the top of the PFP charts? Just relax and breathe, ok?

Posted By: Not as bad as BJ fans, but... (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 09:03 AM

 
 
1. Fiction.

Wow. After last week's great questions, we start this week with an obvious joke. Of course Rampage will be back to championship form. He obviously will be out to make a statement in his next fight that he is back in more ways then one. After that, I definitely see a title match in his future.

2. Fiction. But...

See here's the thing. I see Vera having a very bright future at Heavyweight (Despite the 2 losses he suffered there before his LHW debut) because of the lack of competition there. HOWEVER, despite being a stacked division, Vera can make waves at LHW. So No, I do not believe it would be a mistake for Vera to fight at LHW but I think ultimately, I see Vera's future being at HW.

3. Fact.

Take a little from Wendell " the Heavyweight Division is not as deep as it was even four months ago." and a little from Bren "because he is young, has received a high amount of praise from anyone who has seen him train, and not only is the UFC's Heavyweight Division a bit thin, but it's also a bit long in the tooth." and you have my opinion on the subject. It will not be right now though. But I have no doubts Cain will be UFC HW Champion.

4. Fact.

I think Vitor's best days are sadly, behind him and I have very little doubt that if/when Affliction signs a "Top 5 talent", Vitor will not be victorious.

5. Fact.

Arlovski is not one of my favorite fighters by any means, but it is hard to ignore what he has done in his last 2 fights. I think the old Arlovski is back, and (Dare I say it) another big win for him and Arlovski could find himself facing "The Last Emperor"
Speak of the devil, that segues into...

6. Fact.

Wendell had me going for a minute to lean towards "Fiction" until "Silva beat a superior opponent."
Wow.
Even I was surprised to see "The Cyborg" beat Tim in :36 (despite Anderson opening up a gash the size of the grand canyon on Irvin's face in just 1:01). But you cannot in all that is good and right, that James Irvin is superior to Tim Sylvia.
(Bonus F or F:
To Tobias, FACT. FACT. FACT!

Not just of the year, but maybe in the history of the Fact or Fiction MMA Column!)

Another great read as always.


Posted By: Mystery Guest (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 09:03 AM

 
 
He meant that Irvin was the superior OPPONENT not that he is better than Silva you gene-asses...

To spell it out for you... it was a greater challenge for Silva to fight Irvin than it was for Fedor to fight Sylvia


Posted By: Adam (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 09:58 AM

 
 
Yes I am a moron

Posted By: Adam (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM

 
 
Don't shoot the messenger! lol

Posted By: Bren Oliver (Registered)  on July 23, 2008 at 10:14 AM

 
 
I think Irvin was a far more dangerous matchup for Silva than Sylvia was for Fedor. Irvin has been very impressive as of late with his highlight reel knockouts, and Sylvia hasn't been impressive since the rematch he had with Arlovski. I will agree with Wendell in saying that Silva had much more to lose than Fedor did, that is why his win was more impressive for me. Like Irvin or not, he is a very dangerous striker.

Posted By: Toddo (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 10:55 AM

 
 
@Wendell Mitchell:in essence, Silva beat a superior opponent.

SO basically your saying James Irving 14-5 a guy whom lost to Stepen Bonnar was in a sense better than Tim Sylvia 26-6

man your head needs to be examined !


Posted By: WTF (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 11:23 AM

 
 
Irvin is superior to Tim Sylvia? Worst. Comment. Ever.

Sylvia was a UFC champ and has fought (and beaten) some of the best in the division. Irvin has never even been close to a title shot.


Posted By: DrBdan (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 11:32 AM

 
 
"I chalk it up to me thinking Irvin had a much better chance of sneaking away with a victory than Sylvia did so, in essence, Silva beat a superior opponent."

Guys he's not saying Irving is better than Slyvia. The way I read it is that because he expected Fedor to kill Timmy but thought Sandman would give Silva more trouble, in his eyes, Silva's victory was more impressive. I agree with him when you look at it that way.


Posted By: divine comedy (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 11:59 AM

 
 
I watched the Fedor/Sylvia match with my dad saturday night,

He is 50 and never saw an MMA match in his life

He honestly taught that it was a joke and he couldnt believe that Sylvia was a former UFC Champ,

Sylvia looked like a slow fat joke!


Posted By: steve0 (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:08 PM

 
 
Wendell, please shhhhhhh.

Posted By: bigal6a (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM

 
 
The first question was not a joke. It stands to reason that Jackson may NEVER be as good as he was before his mental breakdown or problems with the law.

Posted By: punchdrunk (Registered)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM

 
 
6. Fedor Emelianenko's performance against Tim Sylvia was more impressive than Anderson Silva's domination of James Irvin at Light Heavyweight.

FACT FACT FACT FACT and YES FACT

Fedor defeated a TOP 10 HW former 3 TIMES UFC CHAMP In 36 FRICKIN SECONDS

He totally ANILIHATED MURDERED Sylvia like NO ONE ELSE before HIM could DREAM OF

Fedor totally owns Anderson Silva (who got owned and submitted by RYO CHONAN IMO !) to death .

FEDOR IS the greatest pound for pound fighter of the whole universe .

Learn to live with it UFC groupies and blind smarks cause there's nothing you and the chump known as Dana White could do about it .

Keep crying FEDOR IS FOR REAL !


Posted By: Mr Freeze (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:35 PM

 
 
anyone saying than fighting Irvin was a "greater challenge" and "tougher" than pwning the hell out of a former THREE TIMES UFC CHAMP and TOP 10 HY doesn't have a single clue about what MMA is all about

Fedor >>>>> Silva


Posted By: Mr Freeze (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:37 PM

 
 
"To spell it out for you... it was a greater challenge for Silva to fight Irvin than it was for Fedor to fight Sylvia"

Well... Yes. It's STILL fact! Sylvia is known to be very submission prone. I was expecting an armbar (a la Mir) but not in the way he did it. Anderson has yet to get out of the 2nd round in his last 5 fights (That may be wrong... Hendo, Franklin (Twice), Lutter & Marquardt). So I never gave Irvin a chance to get out of the 1st. I thought Sylvia would at least make it to the 3rd.

So yeah. It's still fact. No matter how you phrase it!


Posted By: Guest#9329 (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:37 PM

 
 
i always thought tim sylvia blew nuts. almost as much as the matt guy who said he was one of the most dominating heavyweights in the past 5 years...your a fool my friend just a simple fool.

James Irvin has always kinda been just floating around the LHW division. i think he is a good fighter who got dominated by the best fighter in the world.

Am I the second comming of Christ-FACT


Posted By: 411 manias enemy (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 01:39 PM

 
 
I'm a big fan of Sylvia and Irvin, but for anyone to say Irvin is a superior opponent to Sylvia.... it's one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard, regarding Mixed Martial Arts.

Posted By: sprawlandbrawl (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 02:22 PM

 
 
Yeah as with others I have to disagree that Irvin was more dangerous than Tim. Not in a million years. Everyone knows that Irvin was going to get KTFO. Tim on the other hand we wasnt so sure, most thought he would lose but wondered how long it would take, what kind of damage tim would do to fedor. Etc. None of this was a thought of with Irvin just "well Irvin could get lucky, he has Knockout power" Well so does tim, plus he out weighs fedor, is atleast a top 10 heavy if not top 5. and a Former champion no too long ago. I think almost knocking someone out and then chocking them out in 36 seconds is far more impressive then 1:09 Knockout. Not even looking at the fact that Tim is a far more dangerous fighter then Irvin. Subimission isnt so easy to do that quick compared with knocking a guy out. Lets come back to reality for a minute okay?

Posted By: Guest#9583 (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 02:30 PM

 
 
I read Wendell’s comment to mean that he thought Fedor had more of a chance to beat Tim than Anderson had to beat Irvin.

Was there anyone out there without a doubt Sylvia would lose? I mean really, sure the guy was great against fighters who stood and banged with him, but get him on the ground and he was useless.

Silva was fighting Irvin, someone known for his flask knockouts of other fighters who liked to stand and bang. Plus, it was at a weight he normally didn’t compete at.

Given those circumstances, there was a greater chance Silva would lose than Fedor. I don’t know if that should equate to Irvin being considered a superior opponent than Tim, but Irvin definitely had more of a chance to beat Silva than Tim had to beat Fedor.


Posted By: Scott Kuczkowski (Registered)  on July 23, 2008 at 02:46 PM

 
 
Add me to the list. It has really nothing to do with "Fedor Fanboys". Putting Irvin above Sylvia is completely mental. I don't think anyone in their right mind picked Irvin to beat Silva, but I'm damn sure there were some folks who thought Sylvia had an outside shot against Fedor. As much as Sylvia is maligned and hated, he held that belt for a long time. Wendell Mitchell is a twit.

Posted By: AC Slick (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 04:49 PM

 
 
Well, here's how the experts (odds makers) saw it:

Fedor -450 / Sylvia +300

Silva -625 / Irvin +425

Those mean Silva was more expected to win than Fedor.


Posted By: tobias (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 09:14 PM

 
 
Hm.. so Fedor beats a guy who has around 30lb over him and was a form ufc heavyweight champ. Sylva who says he was walking around at 220 before the fight, beats a can and Wendell considers that more impressive. That's an interesting way to look at things.

Posted By: huh (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 10:10 PM

 
 
The problem with the "superior opponent" argument is that it is circular. The reason why Irvin was a more superior opponent in this logic is not because Irvin is a better fighter. Instead, he was a superior opponent because Silva is not as dominating a fighter as Fedor, and as such, would have more difficulty with Irvin than Fedor with Sylvia. Which may be true, but it doesn't support the argument that Fedor fight wasn't more impressive because by this logic Fedor would never be more impressive because you would always expect him to dominate but Silva would because he is not as good as a fighter.

I think Silva is the best PFP in the world, but not because a comparison of these fights proved it. These fights didn't disprove it either. Silva has faced far superior opponents historically, and has been more active against top competition lately. That is why Silva is PFP. Both easily destroyed their opponents. Both were impressive.

I would assume if you were a fan of one over the other before these fights, nothing has changed. Move on to an actual question requiring thought instead of which fighter do you like more kinda thing.


Posted By: Tim (Guest)  on July 23, 2008 at 10:34 PM

 
 
This is the part where UFC groupies diminish Sylvia since he lost to Fedor despite him being the most dominant UFC heavy over the last 3 or so years.

Posted By: Kevin B (Guest)  on July 24, 2008 at 02:34 AM

 
 
ill cut to the chase and say wat we all know is true fedor is the best..he fights guys twice the size of him and way 30- 40lbs more tham him...if silva was that good let him fight fedor now at current weights....then we will c whos better

Posted By: fedor=best (Guest)  on July 24, 2008 at 06:52 AM

 
 
Let them fight each other? And that will determine who is best pfp? Good logic - then lets let Brandon Vera fight Gomi - if he wins he moves into the top ten pfp category. If you use a little common sense it is clear that Silva deserves the top spot because of who he has fought and defeated in the last two years, especially Franklin and Henderson who were both considered top 10 pfp at the time they fought. Other than (imo overrated) Timmy, Fedor hasn't fought anyone in the top 20 in the last two years. End of Argument. Sucks for you Fedormaniacs.

Posted By: navyfightfan (Guest)  on July 24, 2008 at 11:17 AM

 
 
I'm pretty sure he means let them fight each other at a weight they can both make, maybe 215.

I think we're going to have to wait until Roger Gracie gets more mma experience before Fedor has a challenge.


Posted By: tobias (Guest)  on July 24, 2008 at 12:38 PM

 
 
i agree, a catch-weight fight at 215 is exactly what's needed... now - who wants to tell Dana that both his HW and MW need to leave so they could fight Fedor?

Posted By: cyks (Guest)  on July 24, 2008 at 06:18 PM

 


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