The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly 07.28.08: EliteEX Unfinished Business
Posted by Scott Kuczkowski on 07.28.2008
Can Elite XC pull off a show without Gina Carano and Kimbo Slice? Can Lawler and Smith deliver a fight worthy of being the headliner? How will this event compare to the first? We’ll cover all that and more…
The event comes to us from Stockton CA, the home of Nick Diaz. Color me excited about that little tidbit.
Thankfully, they got right down to business and we weren't inundated with dancing girls or a menagerie of crap that isn't relevant to the business inside the cage. Things also look a little more polished production-wise, which is good. The first view of the cage shows some blood on the canvas, which tells me I probably missed a good fight. Shucks.
Baszler vs. Santos: Baszler was pretty cute until she smiled, which was a shame. Santos looked like a beast, which figured since she trained with chute box. I mistakenly assumed Santos has been inactive since her last MMA fight almost 2 years ago, but the truth was she was competing in Muay Thai tournaments. That didn't bode well for Baszler.
The Good: Both fighters came out and tried to establish their game plan. Santos showed a lot of great submission defense and demonstrated she had superior striking skills. Santos finished the fight with a second round knockout.
The Bad: Baszler couldn't get any of her submission attempts to work and ran out of gas in the second round. This was unfortunate for her as Santos recognized she was fatigued and really put the pressure on her.
The Ugly: I don't know if this is so much ugly as it is unfortunate, but in the second round Santos knocked Baszler to the canvas and figured she had the fight won. She then leapt to the top of the cage and started to celebrate her supposed victory. The problem was that Baszler was still in the fight and the referee hadn't stopped it yet. Oops. Santos looked a little confused and embarrassed as the referee told her the fight was still on. I guess she won't make that mistake again.
Shields vs. Thompson: I hoped this would be a great fight. Shields must have a special gene in his system that keeps him looking younger while everyone else keeps looking older. He's got kids and he could still pass for someone in high school. Thompson mentions he'll take his bar exam two days after the fight. I'm sure he's hoping to minimize shots to his skull.
The Good: Quick takedown by Shields, which he quickly used to transition to the mount and then to a top guillotine. Doesn't get much simpler than that. Shields looked very dominant, but I can't help but wonder where he would stack if he signed with the UFC.
The Bad: Other than the fact that the fight was short, I can't say anything bad about it.
The Ugly: None
Diaz vs. Denny: I'm not a Nick Diaz fan by any means. Sure, the guy is talented, but his antics and shit talking just get to me after a while. Denny looked ready, but I wasn't sure he would be able to beat Diaz.
The Good: Round 1 was really exciting. Denny tried to push the pace as much as he could and I think he caught Diaz with a few good shots in the process. Denny started to gas as the first round ended and Diaz started to take him apart on the feet. Diaz finished the fight with a second round TKO.
The Bad: Denny gassed himself out, which demonstrated some poor planning and preparation on his part.
The Ugly: None.
They mentioned the title fight between Antonio "Bigfoot" Silva and Justin Eilers. I was a little bummed out that this didn't make it on the free broadcast. They showed highlights of Silva mauling Eilers. The funniest part is when they cut to Silva in the crowd chilling with his new belt and HE DIDN'T EVEN LOOK LIKE HE FOUGHT. Did Eilers even land a punch?
Smith vs. Lawler: Things looked really even between these two last time, but I doubted Lawler would allow the fight to stay that even this time. Anderson Silva was spotted in the crowd before the fight and the announce team spoke about how they wished the winner of this fight would get a shot at his title. Truth be told, I don't think either of these guys would even get out of the first round with Anderson Silva.
The Good: Both guys pushed the pace throughout the first round. Smith looked like he wanted to stay with his punch-punch-kick philosophy, while Lawler looked content to work the jab. During the second round, Lawler put Smith against the cage and finished him with knees to the body.
The Bad: Smith looked like he ran out of gas during the second round. He also looked like he wasn't as lean as he was during the first fight. I wonder if this was due to a shortened training camp or if Smith wanted to walk into the fight heavier than last time. Either way, I think this contributed to him running out of gas and unable to answer Lawler's knees.
The Ugly: None.
Well, that was it…the whole enchilada. I'd say this broadcast was a definite step-up in quality for Elite XC. I am a little dismayed that the heavyweight title fight wasn't broadcast on free TV too, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.
Fedor: As promised in my last column, I'm going to discuss some of the future opponents for Fedor. I still maintain that his next few opponents will be somewhat difficult to sell to the average fan if they don't seem at all like credible threats. Let's see what the readers had to say:
Kev0 - Totally agree with the analysis on Fedor's next opponents. Couture and Arlovski are probabaly the only two guys that could draw a number worth paying Fedor for. As much as I want to see the fight, I don't think Barnett/Fedor would make enough money to pay these guys what their worth.
I have to agree with this. Arlovski is a very dynamic and athletic heavyweight and may be the only person left that can give Fedor a run for his money. Arlovski has the benefit of being everything that Tim Sylvia wasn't; he's quick on his feet, he's bull-strong, he's good on the ground, and he's pretty well liked and known by the casual fan. These qualities equate to a good build up and hopefully a good fight.
Randy Couture is also someone who will definitely draw with Fedor. People love Captain America and many believe he may be the only person capable of beating Fedor. I don't know if that is true, but the fact is that Randy is a great tactician and would hopefully come up with a great game plan should he have a chance to stand across the ring/cage from Fedor.
Samer - If and probably WHEN Fedor beats Barnett, he has only 2 opponents left, Arlovski and Couture.. If he beats them, he should retire.. He would have beaten every great heavyweight in the sport, if you add Cro Cop and Big Nog whom he beat in Pride..
I've heard this bounced around too, and I can't help but agree. I'm not thrilled with the thought of Fedor hanging up his gloves for lack of better competition, but the truth is that age and injuries will eventually catch up with him and I don't want to see him being used as a stepping stone for younger fighters if he chooses to stay in the game longer than he should (I'm looking at you Ken Shamrock). Maybe hanging up his gloves after the next few fights would be best for his legacy.
Oh Dear - This is very similar to the Goldberg situation. Massive star comes with huge price tag, company refuse to spend the cash to bring him in. They eventually get desperate and offer the millions required.
Obviously the ending can't be the same, but Fedor will bein UFC soon enough
I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory that Fedor will end up in the UFC. I just don't see it happening. Would it be cool if he did sign with them? Sure, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Romano - not sure if you've had a chance to see srlovski's fight yet scott, but he's a credible challenger...i personally will support anything with fedor on it and hopefully the undercards to his fights will always include intrigueing matchups.
On fedor's possible future opponents, i really don't feel that the new breed heavywieghts (cain, carwin, lesnar) will be ready or credible to fight fedor for three to four years, and by then i don't want to see fedor fighting...let him clean out the rest of the old guard and go out on top.
I know a number of people will buy any PPV Fedor is listed on. The problem is that those people won't generate the +100k buys needed to make the PPV worthwhile for a promoter to promote. Hardcore fans probably don't make it fiscally possible; casual fans have to buy too.
guest guest - I'll buy an Arlovski vs Fedor ppv, as I am a Fedor fan and a huge Arlovski mark. I think Arlovski mathes up with stylistically well enough (something like cro cop) that we will get a good fight out of it. I'll also buy a Couture vs Fedor fight, but I Barnett simply doesn't interest me no matter how good he has become.
I don't see Barnett vs Fedor scoring a huge number of PPV buys either. Barnett is a great self-promoter and has built himself up to appear as a credible threat to Fedor. The problem is that I don't buy his rhetoric and I don't think many other people do either. Couple that with the fact that Barnett isn't well known in the US, and you have a PPV main event that the casual fan isn't interested in seeing.
b1zarr0 - I'd more than likely buy Fedor vs Arlovski and would most definetly buy Fedor vs Couture...I think both have the potential to be amazing fights.
Me too. The issue is that I don't think we'll see Randy fight Fedor anytime soon. I also think that fight has lost its luster to a lot of people as time has dragged on. Too bad for us fans.
Pound for Pound: I have heard the term "Pound For Pound #1 Fighter" thrown around quite a bit this past week. I should have foreseen this happening when I heard Anderson Silva and Fedor Emalianenko were going to fight on the same day. Shit, it even happens if one of them just happens to get mentioned in the news or on the internet. I've stayed out a lot of these discussions, but I figured it was finally time to voice my opinion on the matter. What I have to say though isn't so much an opinion as it is a request. Here we go:
Stop.
Stop arguing about something that can't be and won't ever be proven.
So just stop.
I think the issue is that many people seem to think that putting two guys in the cage with each other and letting them duke it out will get us the Pound For Pound greatest fighter in the world. The problem is that those same people don't realize that pound for pound is a myth. It's fantasy. It's fiction. There is no determining who the best pound for pound fighter is, which is why the term was even created.
Let me explain the term pound for pound first. Wikipedia explains it as such, and I think they did quite well: It is often said to have been created to describe world Welterweight and Middleweight champion Sugar Ray Robinson. Robinson is one of the most accomplished fighters of all time, but his supporters realized that, while he could beat anyone in his own class, as a Middleweight he would not be able to beat a top Heavyweight. Hence, Robinson was called the pound-for-pound best without being expected to beat much larger fighters, under the belief that he as a Middleweight was still a better quality fighter than any fighter fighting at heavier or lighter weights than him.
See, pound for pound fighters aren't expected to (nor are they able to) defend their title. It is something that the fans and promoters have conjured up to try and compare two fighters who weren't meant to meet in the ring.
The fact that Anderson Silva walks around at 215 pounds doesn't mean he should try to stay at that weight so he can fight Fedor. The expectation is foolish since that isn't the weight he competes at. Imagine Fedor trying to trim down to 185 to challenge Silva, and you can understand why the comparisons don't work. The fact that fighters can meet somewhere between their weight differences doesn't mean that they should. Cutting or gaining weight forces a fighter to remove himself from the weight class that they perform best at. Doing so doesn't bring us any closer to answering these questions.
Just be happy with the explanation that Fedor Emelianenko is the best heavyweight in the world and Anderson Silva is the best middleweight in the world. I think both fighter could live with those titles.
I therefore propose that people just stop. Stop trying to compare fighters who weren't meant to ever meet in the ring. Stop trying to use MMAth to justify why someone's win/loss record makes them better than someone else. Stop claiming someone else's opponents were better fighters and another's.
Just stop.
Final Thoughts: Well, I hope you all enjoyed this week's column. As always, feel free to comment below.
@Stop arguing about something that can't be and won't ever be proven
I think Fedor has already proven he is pound for pound the best in the WORLD !
Anderson has proven he is pound for pound the the best in the UFC !
but me thinks he has some competition with a another fighter name George St.Pierre
Posted By: WTF (Guest) on July 28, 2008 at 07:52 AM
Fedor has proven that he is the best P4P fighter in history thus far.
However in the current P4P ranks, Anderson has a legitimate claim to it. He also has a good 5-6 years left if he stays injury free, to claim that all time best spot. That being said I do agree with Scott that it just can't be 100% legitimized and it needs to be laid to rest.
Also, GSP needs to defend his title and run off a few wins in a row to even grace a sentance with those two.
Posted By: Bryan (Guest) on July 28, 2008 at 08:50 AM
I’m soooo tired of this notion that because someone has a win over a dominant fighter, all of a sudden he is the worlds best. It’s the worst MMA trend by far!! People 6 months ago gave Forest a lackluster grade in all fighting aspects and now all of a sudden he is the world champ. Anyone who has boxed knows anyone has a punchers chance (case in point St.Pierre vs Serra). The world’s best MMA fighter right now hands down is Fedor. His record is squeaky clean and he’s also a very accomplished fighter in Judo and Sambo. He’s unstoppable right now and if you can’t see the power in his punches, you might need to take some boxing lessons or get in a ring. To compare Silvia to Fedor or even think Silvia could hang more than 1 round with Fedor is suicide. Feodr would physically harm Silvia so bad that it might jeopardize his career. Silvia also said something about fighting a top ranked professional boxer. This would also be suicide. I know this comment will create so much flack and jackass ignorant comments but in order to fully understand the science of boxing you need to get in the ring for a while. Let’s see.... Silvia vs. Wladimir Klitschko or Matt Hughes or St.Pierre vs. Kelly Pavlik. The MMA fighters would get DESTROYED. These guys hit harder than most MMA fighters kick. Just because someone couldn’t cut it in boxing or wrestling and get a few tattoos and call themselves MMA fighters and knock some other jackass out, doesn’t make them the best fighter in the world. A boxer would last longer in a MMA ring that a MMA fighter in a boxing ring. I’m not saying the boxer would win every time but the MMA fighter would last 3 seconds in the ring with a TOP boxing champ. MMA is the new thing and I love the bandwagon. I each every event and would rather watch a good MMA fight than a long boring boxing match. But you can’t compare sports. One is a fad and another is a science. No mma fighter has ever killed someone with a punch. Look at this link and tell me if a MMA fighter has ever suffered from these injuries:
No MMA fighter has ever come close to facing these injuries. A boxer with 4oz gloves would rim the face off MMA fighters.
Posted By: David (Guest) on July 28, 2008 at 03:19 PM
To David:
Don't claim that you don't want to "create flak" and then completely discredit everything MMA athletes work for. While I tend to agree that even the best boxing MMA fighters would get destroyed in a boxing match, there's no way a one-dimensional boxer could beat a well-rounder martial artist with a solid gameplan. It's not like the fighter is going to want to stand and trade with the boxer. Put Jake O'Brien or Cain Velasquez or another strong, strong wrestler up against a boxer, and they're going to take him down and smother him en route to a decision victory. Is it going to be the most entertaining fight ever? Not by a long shot, but it's certainly no worse than some boxing matches I've seen. And I boxed for six years, so I've spent time in the ring and I understand the finer points of the "Sweet Science". But I also wrestled for nine years and dabbled in Judo for three semesters in college, so I can appreciate the variety of MMA that could (and likely would) confound a straight-up boxer.
As for your link, I can't vouch for a lot of the stories, but one in particular shouldn't be on there, that being Duk-koo Kim v Ray Mancini. "Boom-Boom" is from Youngstown, Ohio, about twenty minutes from where I grew up, and you won't find a bigger Mancini fan (not unlike Kelly Pavlik today). Yes, Mancini did win the fight, and yes, Kim did die four days later, but he never should've been medically cleared for the fight in the first place. He was severely dehydrated from making weight and had a difficult time defending himself, especially in the latter rounds. Sadly, that fight was basically the end of both competitors' careers, as Kim's death led to depression for Mancini and essentially (in my opinion) took his heart for fighting. He's a great guy that I've been fortunate enough to meet on a couple of occasions when he returns to Youngstown, and he'll always be the first sports figure I ever idolized.
Posted By: Wyatt (Guest) on July 28, 2008 at 04:07 PM
