The Verbal Submission 07.29.08: Who is the Best Pound for Pound Fighter?
Posted by Chris Robinson on 07.29.2008
If I had a pound for every time I heard a fighter referred to as the best "pound for pound", I'd be rich in England. These British money jokes doing anything for you?
I think my eyes are playing tricks on me. I watched a solid fight card on Saturday night on CBS that didn't involve Mr.T's long lost brother, an American Gladiatorette, or piss poor referees. It must've been a WEC show right? From a rain soaked apartment in Jersey, I bring you to the latest edition of "The Verbal Submission". Not a ton of news coming out of the MMA world this week, and most of my colleagues here at 411 cover that end of things anyway, so what the hell am I going to talk about? I've got funny pictures and videos. Does that equal a good column? Seriously though, today I want to discuss the ongoing question "Who is the best pound for pound fighter in the world?". Let's pick it apart.
Look at this picture and try to hear Britney Spears' "Crazy" playing in your head. Try real hard.
THE BEST POUND FOR POUND PER POUND FOR POUND FIGHTER IN THE WORLD
I've noticed lately that this particular debate is raging on quite regularly on MMA message boards across the interweb. I figured I would throw my three cents into the argument and I'll try to keep the big word count to a minimum. Now remember angry fanboys, THIS IS MY OPINION, if I forget your favorite fighter, write your angry comments below and I won't address them at all. Mmkay?
5. URIJAH FABER - CURRENT WEC FEATHERWEIGHT CHAMPION
Coming in at cinco is "The California Shaggy Kid" Urijah Faber, who is without question one of the best fighters in the world. Is he THE best "pound for pound" fighter in the world? I'm still not sure how a fighter gets thrown in that category, but it seems that one qualification might be the ability to jump up and down to different weight classes. So far, I haven't heard any notion that Faber is thinking of going up or down in weight classes within the WEC. However, how many more top 145'ers are out there for him to face on American soil? I'm well aware of the crop of tough featherweights in Japan, but are they going to jump across the pond if Dana White comes calling? For Faber to truly enter the "pound for pound" argument, I believe he would have to make a run at either the 155 or 135 titles in the WEC. If he goes after 155, screw the WEC, why not just jump to the UFC. Think of the cross promotion! Faber beats a tough opponent at 155 on a UFC Fight Night, and thus brings the eyeballs of whatever blind, deaf, or retarded people who have never heard of the WEC to the WEC for a show on the lovely VS Network. Makes sense to me! Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. Faber might be perfectly content in being the best featherweight in the world, although I'm sure at some point, someone will say to him, "I wonder if you could beat a guy like KenFlo?". You never now!
He's from California! That's all they eat is watermelon and fried chicken! Wait....
HOT GIRL VIDEO FOR NO REASON
4. BJ PENN - CURRENT UFC LIGHTWEIGHT CHAMPION
Next up is one of my personal faves, "The Prodigy" BJ Penn. BJ is the current 155 champ, and a former champ at 170 pounds. This is a guy who's been dominant in two weight classes over the course of his sure to be hall of fame career. It's hard to argue that at some point, BJ was probably considered the best "pound for pound" fighter in the world. There's only one loss on his record that he hasn't avenged, and that is to GSP. All signs are actually pointing to BJ getting the chance to avenge that loss in December if and when GSP defeats Jon Fitch. Now I know some will say that BJ doesn't have any wins over the current crop of top talent at 170, guys like Koscheck, Sanchez, Alves, etc. You'll probably also argue he needs to face either Florian or Huerta to solidify his crown at 155. Regardless of all those potential match-ups, BJ's abilities are among the elite in the game right now. If he does eventually knock off a few more top guys at 155 and 170, he'd have a lock on the "pound for pound" title.
Two of these guys are among the elite. One is named after a Spanish singer with a huge ass.
3. GEORGES ST. PIERRE - CURRENT UFC WELTERWEIGHT CHAMPION
Surprise! There's not really a surprise. I just wanted to type that. With the only two losses on his record avenged, and avenged quickly, GSP is on the short list for many fans as the best "pounder for pounder" in the world. Now, I think this one is the biggest stretches for me, although Georges has expressed interest in moving up to 185 to face Anderson Silva. GSP also has to get by Jon Fitch, the winner of the upcoming Alves/Sanchez fight, and the ghost of Matt Hughes. He won't be able to defeat a ghost. I'm sure of it. People are expecting Georges to walk through Fitch, which may not be the case. GSP definitely has to get that title defense monkey off his back though. Then and only then, can we start talking "best pound for pound". With all the talk of people moving to different weight classes to test their skills, the possibility of Anderson Silva and GSP meeting gives me a MMA boner. Both fighters are at the top of their game right now, and the only X factor would be the extra weight that GSP would be carrying. Would GSP want a fight against another middleweight before challenging Silva? What if GSP faces and defeats Anderson Silva and BJ Penn for the second time, within the next year? How could you not call him the best pound for pounder? Are you tired of the phrase "pound for pound" yet?
I believe he can fly. I believe he can touch the sky
MMA-TUBE: UFC FUNNY LOOK-A-LIKES
BEST WEIGH-IN PHOTO EVER
2. FEDOR EMELIANENKO - CURRENT WAMMA WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION
Can't have this discussion without talking about Fedor. "The Last Emperor" showed that puny American heavyweights are no match for him when he obliterated Tim Sylvia at Affliction colon Banned. With an upcoming match against Andre Arlovski, Fedor could further cement himself as the best heavyweight ever, with only Randy Couture offering an argument to that claim. Does being the best heavyweight give him the "pound for pound" crown? Granted, Fedor does have a win over regular middleweight, Matt Lindland, but Lindland isn't exactly a top tier middleweight these days. Would Fedor ever consider dropping down to 205, or are there 205'ers willing to move up? I don't see a drop happening, because Fedor would have to cut 30 to 40 pounds which is just silly. Could some top 205'ers move up though? Is it even worth it? I think Fedor's total dominance over every opponent is what qualifies him as best "pound for pound". Will WAMMA created a Pound for Pound Title? Who's to say!
1. ANDERSON SILVA - CURRENT UFC MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION
Here's a guy who is so bored at 185 that he wanted to have a boxing match against Roy Jones Jr. Here's a guy who decimated James Irvin in his debut at 205. Here's a guy that has walked through every opponent he's faced in the UFC and barely broken a sweat. Here's a guy who's going to hand Patrick Cote his ass at UFC 90. This is Anderson Silva. In my humble opinion, Silva is the best pound for pound fighter in the world. After he sends Cote packing, the only notable 185ers left are Yushin Okami, and Michael Bisping. Bisping, in my opinion, is still several fights away from a title shot, but he could be ready in 2009. So of course, Silva is going to make a run at 205. He claims he doesn't want the belt. He claims it was a one off deal. WHY? I say let him run through the division. Have him pick off some name guys like Stephan Bonnar, Keith Jardine, Thiago Silva, etc. If he's still undefeated by the end of 2009, hell the middle of 2009, put him in there with Forrest Griffin, or whoever is the 205 champ. A ton of message boarders are clamoring for Silva vs. Liddell, which would've been intriguing about two years ago, but now, I'm not so sure. So let me know who you believe is the best "pound for pound" fighter in the world. It's a hot topic in MMA right now, and I'd like to hear some thoughts on it.
The Last Spider
END OF THE THIRD ROUND
That ends the eighth edition of "The Verbal Submission". The Empire Hardcore Podcast is up and running at Podomatic.com and on iTunes. The show is weekly due to my real life job as a videographer. Also, be sure to check out my latest comedy vlogs on YouTube. Also, be sure to head on over to my not-updated-frequently blog here. I'll be back next Tuesday with my thoughts on the upcoming UFC 87, and anything else that's stuck in my craw.
Posted By: Shawno420 (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 12:14 AM
I'm not sure who i feel more pity for, you, for quoting Parappa the Rapper, or me, for recognizing the damn quote. You suck, sir! Also, I like the names on this list, not the order I'd put them in, but a very good list, I'd say that Miguel Torrez could also fit in somewhere in the BJ, Faber, or GSP spots. At the very least he's a close runner-up.
Posted By: Duncan (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 12:25 AM
"... it seems that one qualification might be the ability to jump up and down to different weight classes."
_______________________________
...and yet, you put Penn on the list at number 4. He hasn't won a non-LW fight in almost 3 years. He's lost the only 2 WW matches since his return to the UFC... and that bit about avenging his losses- sorry, but it was Matt Hughes who avenged his loss by beating BJ, not the other way around.
Posted By: cyks (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 02:45 AM
Silva-Bisping? Please, don't nobody book that. Not only is Bisping NOT anywhere near deserving of a title shot (as you correctly stated) but he'd get MURDERED if he ever faced Silva.
Posted By: woody (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 03:49 AM
umm excuse me woody but some people would LOVE to see Bisping get his face smashed in.
Posted By: stronelis (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 08:59 AM
I hate your column. I really do. Your lame attempts at wit and humour overshadow anything you are trying to do from a commentary standpoint. My comments never get posted because only the positive stuff gets approved, but I only hope someone lets you read this, so maybe you will know. You also have the worst column banner ever, for what that is worth. That said, this week's ist is actually good, and not the abomination I would have anticipated from you. Also nice not to see Fedor at the top of everything for once, as I agree with you on why Silva is the top currently. I like Faber over Penn also, but not bad at all. Good job on the content even if the presentation is horrendous. Guess this makes you the Affliction:Banned of 411 columnists.
Posted By: Jeff (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 09:26 AM
I'm back, you're a racist huh? Saying that all ppl in cali eat fried chicken and watermelon, black joke!! And for two weeks in a row you're poking some kind of fun at rampage's situation, you have no taste, go back to writing about wrestling cuz that's where your lowbrow reporting belongs. You're the ultimate douchebag
Posted By: sofian (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 09:27 AM
"Please, don't nobody book that. Not only is Bisping NOT anywhere near deserving of a title shot (as you correctly stated) but he'd get MURDERED if he ever faced Silva."
Yeah but so would everybody else.
Posted By: Samer (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 09:46 AM
"it seems that one qualification might be the ability to jump up and down to different weight classes"
this has absolutely nothing to do with the argument at all...now i'm sure you've heard people say this, but those people are wrong. The pound for pound title was created in boxing to measure which boxer had the ability to beat anyone in the world if weight wasn't a factor...so imagine we live in planet p4p where everyone weighs the same, who wins --- faber or gsp? fedor or silva? penn or fedor? Got it? Pound for pound arguments also completely ignore quality of opposition, don't believe me? Roy jones jr. was the undisputed p4p champ for the better part of a decade..a decade that includes that incredibly long period of time in between the james toney fight and his move to heavyweight, in between that time period, jones fought a bunch of guys that even you chris would have a shot of beating...folks that argue pound for pound without even understanding what in the hell it is really make my head hurt.
my p4p top five
fedor - while you wouldn't traditionally see a heavy in the p4p rankings, the point needs to be made that fedor is the baddest man on the planet and i couldn't see any of the mere mortals that reside in the rest of the list ever beating him even if they lived in planet p4p where size didn't matter.
Penn - what edges bj out for me is the fact that he has beaten the best in the world and unlike gsp or silva, he has never lost to a can.
Anderson Silva - he has the skill set and the mentality to be the top of this list...if he can manage to not lose to a total can for another couple of years, while finding his way out of the garbage middleweight division (he cuts 35 fucking pounds to fight in mma's weakest division!) I'd definitely give him more props
GSP - i hate the french...having said that, if it weren't for some minor mental weaknesses he'd be number one.
Faber - by default more than anything...it's really hard to gauge his talent at 145 which has a weak talent pool, but 145 is stronger than 135 which is where miguel torres fights.
There's my two cents...whatever
Posted By: romano (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM
Sofian get over yourself. it's kind of hard to claim racism when the guy is white and he eating watermelon. Also he can rite whatever he wants about Rampage's situation it's called the right of free speech. if you don't like it don't read it. If the movie sucks just don't go . If you don't like the writing don't read it.
Posted By: Kyle (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 12:10 PM
How in the WORLD and UNIVERSE can ANYONE be AHEAD of Fedor Frickin Emilianenko ?
Remind me Anderson Silva track record
AH YES 22-4
One was via an illegal kick so I take this one out
22-3
Was submitted BIG TIME by a beautiful HEEL HOOK courtesy of the not so great RIO CHONAN .
Was SUBMITTED before via triangle CHOKE courtesy of Daiju Takase who has the "beautiful" track record of 3 WINS for 11 DAMN LOSSES !
And you're stating THIS GUY is BETTER than a guy who has NEVER EVER Been Submitted NOR KOED nor Plain and Simply DEFEATED (like Trigg stated, Illegal Move = No Contest)
A Man who owned Cro Cop in his prime, Big Nog TWICE in his Prime, Mark Hunt and a former Three Times UFC Heavy Champ in 36 frickin Seconds ?
FEDOR >>>>> Silva
Anyone who has a single clue about what MMA
Posted By: Guest#5041 (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Oh and sorry but the only guy who could offer an "argument" against Fedor's brillance and dominance is definitively Josh Barnett and nobody else
Posted By: Mr Freeze (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 12:24 PM
I really appreciate all the feedback on the column. Even the negative stuff was constructive! Sorry but not everyone gets my sense of humor (i.e., sarcasm and irony) To each his own I guess!
Thanks for reading!
Posted By: Chris Robinson (Registered) on July 29, 2008 at 02:01 PM
Guest#5041...I think your logic is flawed. Past records do not matter in a P4P ranking. P4P rankings are simply to gauge who would win if weight were not an issue. Anderson Silva has come so far along since his lost to Chonan and Takase that he can claim right to this crown right now. He's run off 7 straight wins over very game competition. And even judging him by your standards...are you telling me that a man who owned Nate Marquardt, Hayato Sakuri, Jeremy Horn, Rich Franklin twice and Dan Henderson isn't better than Fedor.
I think Fedor is the best ever, let me get that out there. But I think by the time all is said and done Anderson Silva will take that title from him also. He is more complete than Fedor and has more big wins lately than Fedor. If Fedor can trounce Arlovski and Barnett (with a silva loss, or unless he makes a big time run into LHW) than I will eat my words and gladly crown him top of the heap again.
Posted By: Bryan (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 02:56 PM
1) BJ
2) fedor
3) Silva
4) GSP
5) faber/Torres
BJ Penn for president and Miguel Torres for vice president.
Posted By: Omar (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 10:16 PM
"GSP - i hate the french...having said that, if it weren't for some minor mental weaknesses he'd be number one."
Posted By: romano (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 10:57 AM
well,actually he's canadian but I guess that's not much better, eh.
I agree with this list except I'd switch BJ and Urijah, mostly because if Urijah did move up to 155 I think he could beat BJ in a title fight. Both of these guys are known for their conditioning, unfortunately for BJ he's known for not having any. By the fourth round he'd be gassed and Urijah would still be pushing.
Just my $.02
Posted By: GS I gotta go Pee (Guest) on July 29, 2008 at 11:21 PM
GSP is both "french" and "canadian" since quebecers are talking in french and are living in Canada, hence the name "french caanadians"
But yeah the "real" "french" are living in a country named "France" .
BTW Fedor is and always will be the best fighter ever .
The guy has never been defeated and nobody will .
The only guy who has a single chance at going the five rounds distance with him again would be Josh Barnett .
The Baby Face Assassin is only 30 years old so he can still improve a lot .
But so does Fedor at 31 years of life on this earth .
Arlovski is definitively a Top 5 HW like Barnett and Fedor (the other two guys who are belonging to this elite are Big Nog and Couture to me) .
Though I strongly doubt The Pitbull to have what it takes to simple go to a decision with the last russian emperor .
Why ?
Well look at Arlovski track record , he got owned by Sylvia TWICE, yeah the man which got assraped and murdered forever by Emilianenko .
So as far as I'm concerned NOBODY Can do it .
As for Anderson Silva, Rampage, Machida, The Ice Man and even Wandy are all standing out a chance to beat him at Light Heavy .
That's again another proof than TO ME , Fedor is by far the best MMA fighter in the whole universe .
Posted By: Guest#1002 (Guest) on July 30, 2008 at 10:44 AM
