411MMA Fact or Fiction 08.06.08: Jake Shields Deserves More Respect, Roger Huerta Has a Point, Cyborg to Beat Carano, and More!

Posted by Bren Oliver on 08.06.2008

Did former Ultimate Fighter finalist Jesse Taylor deserve to get the company axe a second time? Should Nick Diaz be favored over KJ Noons when they square off again? Will EliteXC get the boot from CBS if their October event is a flop? 411Mania's Adam Tool and Ryan Seymour roll up their sleeves to offer their thoughts on these subjects and others in this week's MMA "Fact or Fiction"!

Welcome home loyal FoFers! Wednesday has arrived, as always, with another edition of "Fact or Fiction" attached at the hip. UFC 87 is only a few days away, so make sure to keep your eyes peeled for the 411MMA Roundtable Discussion on the card. While the UFC's trek into Minnesota features a trio of drool-worthy bouts (Huerta/Florian, Lesnar/Herring, St. Pierre/Fitch), it also happens to have a supporting cast more likely to make you yawn than salivate. That being said, rest assured the MMA crew here will do their damndest to doll up the event and take the Coke-bottle glasses off the proverbial face of an ugly girl whose got a heart of gold. If it works in the movies, it can work on the internet! I'm also sure you readers will have an opinion or two on the event as a whole, or the individual fights as they take place, so don't be afraid to chime in on 411Mania's live play-by-play which will go up on Saturday night.

From schilling to billing, it's time I get to the two fellows whose names can be found in this column's tease, and who will be bringing you their thoughts on our weekly topics. First up is the man who brings you our monthly "Fighter of..." series and the "Fightin' Stance News" (found every Friday) - Adam Tool! Joining him will be the gent whose column - "The Ultimate eXperience" - you should have read yesterday, Ryan Seymour! Readers, Ryan and Adam. Adam and Ryan, readers. Now that the formalities are out of the way, let's bite into the Tootsie Roll Center of this Tootsie Pop - our six subjects!

Fellow columnists...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. Jake Shields will never get the respect he deserves until he signs with the UFC and beats one of their top Welterweights.


Adam Tool: FACT. Okay so he won the belt, now what? There is no Welterweight under contract with EliteXC that can perform at the same level as Shields. Meanwhile, Zuffa is holding the contracts of the nine other fighters in the "Top Ten" rankings. It's unfortunate that Shields' championship is virtually meaningless at this point, because a champion is only as good as the challengers he beats. There is a goldmine of dream fights awaiting him if he heads to the Octagon, and I hope we get to see some of them sooner than later.


Ryan Seymour: FACT. If you didn't already know, Jake Shields has been on a roll lately. Shields has won ten fights in a row and is the current EliteXC Welterweight Champion. When 411Mania ranked the "Top Ten" best Welterweights in the world, Jake Shields was the only fighter not under a Zuffa owned promotion. It is hard for Shields to get the respect he deserves when Nick Thompson was the only other fighter not involved with Zuffa close to the rankings. Shields defeated Thomson just over a week ago at EliteXC: "Unfinished Business". Now Shields is Welterweight champion in EliteXC, you would expect he would be with EliteXC for a while. If Shields does choose to stay with EliteXC, that would be a real shame, as the fights Shields needs to have are against top UFC Welterweights and WEC stars such as Carlos Condit and Brock Larson.


SCORE: 1 for 1. I believe Shields signed a four-fight deal with EliteXC prior to his bout against Mike Pyle, meaning he has three remaining before having the ability to negotiate a contrat with a new company. While EliteXC may not have any "Top 10" Welterweights under contract for Shields to face, I'm confident they have the resources to bring in three worthwhile opponents for the Gracie Fighter to compete against. Phil Baro-...hey, what's that snickering sound I hear?!? As I was about to say Phil Baroni is 2-0 as a Welterweight since dropping down to 170-pounds with two first-round finishes to his credit. He is a showman who knows how to sell an event with somewhat of a cult following. His professional record is nothing to brag about, but he's got heavy hands and at least brings some name value to the slot opposite Shields. Another idea would be bringing in a fighter from DREAM, like "Mach" Sakurai, to compensate for EliteXC loaning Nick Diaz to the Japanese promotion. There are also guys like Jay Hieron, Ryan Ford, and Drew Fickett who aren't under Zuffa contract and could make for legitimate contenders at some point (with Jay Hieron leading the charge). Plus, I'm pretty sure knowledgeable fans already give Shields the respect he deserves based on his wins over Carlos Condit, Akira Kikuchi, Yushin Okami, Mike Pyle, and most recently Nick Thompson. The reason he doesn't get mainstream love has nothing to do with who he's fought so much as it does the public's lack of knowledge on MMA. As people become more and more educated on the sport they should start to understand how talented Shields is regardless of where he calls home.


2. After three consecutive TKO performances, Nick Diaz should be favored in his rematch against KJ Noons for the EliteXC Lightweight Championship.


Adam Tool: FACT. Of course - he was the favorite heading into the first fight. Let's get one thing clear: yes, the fight was stopped due to a cut. Don't forget though that Noons was owning Diaz for entire first round. However, I see this situation being somewhat similar to the St. Pierre/Serra series. Georges St. Pierre took Matt Serra lightly the first time they fought and he paid for it. The rematch saw GSP more focused than he's ever been, and he put on the dominant performance everyone expected the first time around. I think Nick took Noons lightly in their first meeting, but he'll come into the second fight hungrier than he's ever been before.


Ryan Seymour: FICTION. I could swear I have seen two different types of Nick Diaz. I have seen Nick Diaz be absolutely incredible, for example his fight with Takanori Gomi at PRIDE 33 is an incredible fight to watch and Nick Diaz could not be beaten. But then we see Nick Diaz against KJ Noons at EliteXC Renegade and Nick Diaz was just picked to pieces by KJ Noons. Nick Diaz has three TKO wins and he should be the favorite against KJ Noons? Laughable. Nick Diaz defeated the likes of Katsuya Inoue, Mushin Corbbrey and Thomas Denny since being defeated by Noons. The question is have you even heard of any of them before they faced Nick Diaz, because I most certainly hadn't. Noons on the other hand, faced of against MMA veteran Yves Edwards and defeated him in less then a minute. In the first meeting, KJ Noons stuffed a lot of takedowns made by Nick Diaz and even when Diaz got Noons on the ground, Noons was able to scramble and get back to his feet. The rematch of Nick Diaz vs. KJ Noons should be an incredible fight but I think Noons should be the favorite going into that fight.


SCORE: 1 for 2. All due respect to you Ryan, but Inoue is a two-time "King of Pancrase", so it's not as if Diaz was fighting some chump making his professional debut. Diaz has beaten the likes of Robbie Lawler, Josh Neer, Drew Fickett, and Chris Lytle, submitted Takanori Gomi, and stood tough against Karo Parisyan, Diego Sanchez, and Sean Sherk each for three full rounds. He should absolutely be favored against Karl Jr.. Who has he faced, other than Nick Diaz, that could be considered a "Top 20" competitor in any particular weight-class? Who has Noons finished in his career other than Yves Edwards?


3. Cris Cyborg will deliver Gina Carano's first loss in MMA.


Adam Tool: FICTION. Like it's not hard enough to make picks for upcoming fights, now I have to pick the result of fight that isn't even happening yet? Cyborg plowed through Shayna Baszler, but I don't think Gina will have the same strategy going in. Baszler was desperate to get the fight to the ground because she wanted no part of the stand-up game, while Carano has shown a willingness to slug it out in all of her past fights. She has also been able to withstand a fair amount of punishment, and if you don't think so go back and re-watch the fight with Kaitlin Young from earlier this year. If this bout does happen, it will be an all-out war. However I'm not willing to bet the farm on Cyborg just yet.


Ryan Seymour: FACT. Assuming Gina Carano faces of against Cris Cyborg next (and not someone of likes of Tara Larosa or Kelly Kobald) then I think Cyborg will be the first one to give Gina a loss on her record. Gina Carano has been built up immensely by EliteXC. Actually, it is fair to say that Carano is the most popular female fighter in the world. Just because she is very popular doesn't mean she is the best fighter out there. Cris Cyborg's absolute demolition of Shayna Baszler at the last EliteXC event was very impressive. Gina Carano has looked alright so far in her MMA career, but I think the Chute Boxe spirit and aggressive style that Cris Cyborg has will be too much for Carano.


SCORE: 1 for 3. Win or lose, an eventual showdown between Gina Carano and Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos could have more males on the edges of their couches than a "Monday Night Football" game in overtime. I've considered campaigning against EliteXC putting the fight together by sending them "Before/After Anderson Silva" pictures of Rich Franklin's face. Who else is on board with me?


---SWITCH!!!---


4. If October's "Saturday Night Fights" draws as low a rating as the July 26th event, it is likely fans will have seen the last of EliteXC on CBS.


Ryan Seymour: FACT. It looks like EliteXC will be pulling out all the stops to try to get a good rating for October event on CBS. The first EliteXC event on CBS drew good ratings while the actual show was pretty terrible. While in contrast, it was the opposite for the July 26th event. "EliteXC: Unfinished Business" on July 26th was, in my opinion, a much better show, but it didn't draw nearly as many viewers as EliteXC would have liked. If the October show draws less or around the same viewers as "Unfinished Business" then I wouldn't be very surprised if CBS pull the plug on EliteXC. The event has been rumored to involve Kimbo Slice, Gina Carano, Nick Diaz, KJ Noons and more. I expect the ratings to be better then the previous EliteXC event, and if Brett Rogers is fighting Kimbo Slice, people might just tune in to see Kimbo Slice get beaten.


Adam Tool: FACT. Personally I don't think the ratings will be as low as the most recent event, but taking the question for face value I have to believe it is true. Television networks have, for the most part, never really been willing to stick with something that isn't successful. If the ratings should continue to slide then I believe CBS will look to cut their losses and move on. There are already executives within the company that disagreed with the decision to air mixed-martial arts and while the first show's ratings may have silenced them, a continued downward slide will only add fuel to their fires. The only real bright spot is the fact that MMA ratings are consistently strong in the most coveted of demographics, males 18-34. Should the third show have a lower overall rating but remain strong in this demo, it could survive for a little while longer.


SCORE: 2 for 4. Anyone else care to bet the UFC will counter-program the event with a broadcast of UFC 86? They could show an Ultimate Fighter Season 7 marathon during the day to serve as a running advertisement, then transition into the July 2008 PPV. The Jackson/Griffin fight would serve as a major attraction given Forrest's popularity amongst the Spike viewership and Jackson's recent troubles with the law. Their re-airing of UFC 84 brought in a larger audience than the last "Saturday Night Fights", so why not kick EliteXC while they're down and potentially knock them off of network television?


5. Jesse Taylor deserved to be released from his UFC contract based on his loss to CB Dollaway and comments about "Rampage" Jackson.


Ryan Seymour: FICTION. Jesse Taylor didn't deserve to be released from the UFC, but I think it wasn't unreasonable for the UFC to release JT. My bet is the UFC got fed up with Jesse Taylor, and his loss and reason comments about Rampage gave the UFC an excuse to release him. Jesse Taylor was always going to be on thin ice within the UFC after his little fiasco at the end of TUF. I actually thought the fight between Taylor and CB Dollaway was nearly a loser leaves town fight as CB would be coming of three losses (Amir (twice) and Taylor). Jesse Taylor could hardly afford a loss as he was out to prove he deserved to be in the UFC. While it was a tad unfair that Jesse Taylor was released from the UFC for his loss and comments on Rampage, if I was Dana White's shoes I might have done the same thing. Jesse Taylor got out of line again and was released from the UFC - good thing for JT is that he has made a bit of a name for himself and could find himself fighting for EliteXC, Strikeforce, or one of those type of organizations.


Adam Tool: FACT. I said before that I believed Taylor deserved a second chance. He got it and he fell short. The loss to Dollaway may not have been enough to cause his release, as we've seen plenty of guys stay in the UFC after one loss. However, showing public disrespect for a veteran fighter like Rampage just proves that Taylor has not yet reached the necessary level of maturity and respect for this business, and that's not something that can be tolerated in the world's biggest MMA organization. His immaturity was the main reason he was kicked off of "The Ultimate Fighter," so I can't understand why he wouldn't be more mindful of his words and his actions once he got the opportunity to come back.


SCORE: 2 for 5.


6. You agree with Roger Huerta's recent comments regarding the UFC's contract structure and treatment of fighters.


Ryan Seymour: FACT. Firstly, let me state that whatever happens with fighters contracts, you always have someone who will be unhappy with it. Sportsmen always want more money from basketball to football to most sports. Fighters aren't getting paid well enough. Judging by the fighter payroll from Roger Huerta's last fight, Huerta is making $38,000 a fight. Now, Huerta only has one fight left in his UFC contract after his fight against Kenny Florian at UFC 87. If Huerta keeps winning, then when he goes to renegotiate his contract with the UFC, Huerta will be able to negotiate a much better pay which he wants.

I will agree that the current UFC contract structure is really quit bizarre at the moment. People always bring up the terrible contract of Keith Jardine who won a main event at UFC 76 and only made $20,000 and his opponent made 25x more - Chuck Liddell made $500,000. I can't even state how bad that contract is, but other fighters have GREAT contracts which they might not deserve as much as others. Brandon Vera was making hundred thousand a fight with a hundred thousand bonus if he wins. Did I mention that this is after Vera was coming of consecutive losses in the Heavyweight division? Brandon Vera fought Reese Andy in his last fight and ended up getting $200,000 for a win over a relatively unknown fighter. Staying on that event, Anderson Silva - the UFC Middleweight Champion and best pound-for-pound fighter in the world - ended up getting the same amount as money as Brandon Vera. That isn't right. Something needs to be done about the UFC contract,s but I am unsure what they can do to make the payroll fair and still make a decent profit within the company.


Adam Tool: FICTION. Saving the tough questions for the end are we? This is a hard topic to address because I am not a UFC fighter. I have never seen a contract from the company, and I have very little idea of what a professional fighter's life is like. However, when it comes right down to it the contract is not valid until it is signed by all parties involved. Roger Huerta signed his deal with the UFC, and the terms were laid out right there for him. It's the same with Randy Couture. He agreed to the payment structure that the UFC offered, so for him to say that it is unfair is mind-boggling. Huerta may not have gotten the best deal when he originally signed up, but after his tremendous success inside the Octagon one would assume that his next contract (if there is one after this mess) would be much more lucrative.


SCORE: 2 for 6. I also have faith that the UFC is paying bonuses to guys which goes unreported as it isn't a public matter (as opposed to the salary information released by athletic commissions). Roger Huerta may feel he's not getting as much money as he deserves, but name one "Top 10" fighter he's beaten or PPV he's co-headlined? Keith Jardine can lay claim to those feats and therefore I'd wager Dana White gives him a nice purse on top of the $10,000/$10,000 on his contract. Roger Huerta needs to focus on his own finances, and given how few people had heard of him before entering the UFC and how much he's currently making per fight, I have a hard time shedding a tear for "El Matador".


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Join us next week when two more participants discuss the results from UFC 87, the newest happening in the "Rampage" Jackson sage, and a few other issues lingering out there in the land o' MMA ...