411 MMA Fact or Fiction 08.20.08: Chuck Liddell will Knock Rashad Evans Out, Fitch is Still the #2 Welterweight, Lesnar a Disgrace, & MORE!

Posted by Bren Oliver on 08.20.2008

Did the UFC's signing of "Cro Cop" really affect PRIDE? Will MMA ever become an Olympic sport? Should Manny Gamburyan test the WEC waters as a Featherweight? These questions and more, debated in the latest edition of 411 MMA Fact or Fiction!

This week, representing 411Mania to the fullest, he's a fellow who you might know from previous "Fact or Fiction" showdowns, though if not, you've certainly seen his work whether he's reviewing MMA events on DVD, typing up a fighter's profile, or delivering one of his always-entertaining Friday news reports, "The Fightin' Stance News." Yes, I'm talking about none other than Adam Tool! Standing opposite from Mr. Tool, former 411 writer Michael Huckaby! Now that the players have been introduced, it's time to bring out another crucial ingredient to "Fact or Fiction" - our secret ingredient! These topics are the theme on which the answers will be built upon.

Fellow columnists...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. Brock Lesnar's post-fight taunting of Heath Herring was childish and has no place in Mixed Martial Arts.

Michael Huckaby: FICTION. Not to say I'm okay with it but I've seen much worse. All he did was point and raise his arms in victory and then do some type of lasso deal. Again, I don't approve, but I've seen much worse victory celebrations. Realize the trash talk that goes on with the fighters prior to a bout and emotions run high. I wouldn't do it, but Brock Lesnar isn't exactly known as the brightest or most sportsmanlike guy in the world. Though predictable, it was his first UFC win and he probably feels it validated him in some way despite the fact it was a cake matchup for him when it comes to styles. Taunting in general? Disapprove? That? Wasn't so bad.

Adam Tool: FICTION. This is really sort of a half-FICTION for me. Call it a FACTION or a FICT if you will. Sure it was childish ,but as far as whether or not it has a place in MMA, I would have to say that it does. I love to see fighters showing class and respect for one another (such as Anderson Silva kneeling in front of James Irvin after their recent fight), but I also believe there is a spot for the showman. Do you think Phil Baroni keeps getting fight offers because he's one of the best? Of course not. It's because he has exciting fights and he knows how to sell them. Besides, what Brock did was no worse than the list of offenses brought to the sport by Charles "Krazy Horse" Bennett.

SCORE: 1 for 1. MMA is a sport and therefore a form of entertainment. On top of that, I completely understand an athlete's desire to celebrate in the wake of success. So, from that standpoint, a little showmanship mixed in with the standard show-of-respect is typically fine by me. However, if Lesnar pushing Herring away after a round and clowning him after a sound beating isn't enough, I have to wonder what sort of actions would cross that invisible line. Do fans want to see a day where a fighter inside the Octagon pulls a cellphone out of his cup to call up a friend and gloat of his success? What about a victorious competitor retrieving a Sharpie, signing a glove, and then offering it up to the defeated fighter's camp? They may be silly concepts, but are they really out of the realm of possibility when you consider very similar celebrations taking place in the NFL? Again, Brock's post-fight antics don't bother me, but they do raise the question of how much is too much and what athletic commissions, or MMA organizations themselves, can do to discourage anything more than a bit of gloating towards a fallen opponent or act of self-directed exuberance (a la Eddie Alvarez's backflip or GSP's breakdancing).


2. The UFC signing Mirko Filipovic away from PRIDE played a legitimate role in the downfall of the Japanese promotion (as Dana White implied).

Michael Huckaby: FICTION. Oh you have to be kidding me. Hemmoraging money and losing their national television deal had absolutely nothing to do with it, but the genius that is Dana White signing one guy who he later said was overrated and even at the time wasn't top two in PRIDE was the big downfall? Let me get this straight from Dana White's bullcrap-infested mouth.... they sign Mirko and a couple of months later PRIDE shuts down so he's the genius reason that PRIDE shut down? Then why did they pay them about $70 million for their tape library and fighters and now Cro Cop is back fighting for the new PRIDE in Japan, DREAM? Genius. You only lost $70 million and the guy you signed but it was your genius that shut them down, not the TV contract or Yakuza problems? I don't even believe Dana White is as stupid as the things he says - he knows he's just running his mouth to run his mouth. He's a poor man's Donald Trump. A very poor man's. But Dana does have better hair.

Adam Tool: FICTION. Call me crazy, but I think the ties to THE YAKUZA might have played a pretty legitimate role. There's also the fact that the company was hemorrhaging money in its final days. Mirko got out while the getting was good and I don't think anyone can blame him for that. It's also important to note that Dana White has no filter whatsoever, so with that in mind you can easily identify a good chunk of what he says as complete Grade-A bullsh*t.

SCORE: 2 for 2. As I've stated before, the only negative effect Mirko Filipovic's UFC stint had on PRIDE is related to mildly damaging his credibility as an elite Heavyweight; that his lack of success inside the Octagon slightly tarnishes the victories he racked up in PRIDE.


3. Regardless of his loss to GSP, Jon Fitch is still the second-best Welterweight in MMA.

Michael Huckaby: FACT. This is pretty rough and borderline. I won't even be able to argue if my opponent went against me. We're going to have to see future matchups involving Josh Koscheck, Thiago Alves and any number of guys including Jake Shields who isn't under UFC contract. I think Matt Hughes is too old, Karo Parisyan is too arrogant and Matt Serra isn't good enough to be top level on a continual basis. I have to base this on the fact that Jon Fitch has more than proven himself in the UFC and he lasted a full 25 minutes with GSP, something that certainly is not easy to do. Usually I think rankings are fairly fair and concrete but in this situation I think it's up to the individual person since we haven't seen the matchups yet between this new "Top 5" group in the weight class.

Adam Tool: FICTION. Fitch took everything GSP could dish out and showed he has the heart of a champion, but a loss is still a loss. We recently submitted our rankings for the Welterweight ranks and I personally slid Jake Shields up to the second spot. Fitch's performance was a spirited one, but let's not forget that he was pretty much dominated for 25 minutes (including one 10-8 round across the cards). Shields came out and decimated Nick Thompson in just over a minute, and he hasn't been beaten in almost four years. Of course, since he's never been in the UFC he still has yet to face most of the other guys in the "Top Ten". In any case fighter rankings are subjective, and so your results may vary.

SCORE: 2 for 3. Shields deserves the respect he gets, as does anyone who beats Yushin Okami and Carlos Condit on the same night. And, in truth, he even submitted Jon Fitch at a grappling tournament some years back. Still, in terms of Mixed Martial Arts, the level of competition he's faced in the past few years is not on the same level as Fitch's. Try looking at the UFC 87 Welterweight Championship bout in terms of a college football game between an undefeated SEC and Big Ten powerhouse with Jake Shields as the #3 team in the land who happens to play in the WAC or Conference USA. St. Pierre and Fitch were involved in a grueling contest with GSP edging the AKA fighter out by a field goal. In that regard, "Rush" remains #1, while the former Purdue Boilermaker Fitch holds on to the second slot in the rankings over Shields, though by a much slimmer margain than before the championship game.


---SWITCH!!!---


4. Mixed Martial Arts will one day be an Olympic sport.

Adam Tool FACT. In all questions pertaining to Olympic events and their merit within said games, I like to refer to what I call the Curling Effect. This simple hypothesis states that if A) curling is actually a sport then B) everything else involving physical activity is also a sport. MIxed-martial arts does involve some form of physical activity (quite a lot of it actually) so therefore we can come to the conclusion that it is a sport and does deserve a spot in the Olympics. The international competition is already built in, as fighters from all over the world regularly compete against one another every month. Why shouldn't they be doing it for some shiny medals and national pride?

Michael Huckaby: FICTION. Can we please make BJJ an Olympic sport first? If even BJJ can't be an Olympic sport there is no way in hell MMA will ever be, and that's not even including the brutality or the fact people would have to fight on an every other day basis. Come 2012 in London even baseball won't be an Olympic sport any longer and that's (a) much easier, (b) played by more countries in a major capacity. I can't see any way an Olympic tournament would be approved by the IOC let alone how Matt Hughes would agree to fight Carlos Condit, Thiago Alves and Josh Koscheck in the span of a week. And what about cuts? Fatigue? What about the people who hold their contracts (say the UFC) laughing their butts off at the idea of letting these fights happen for free when they have them signed and perhaps have fights ready for them in the coming months? Not a chance in hell.

SCORE: 2 for 4. I feel like a semi-functional retard for never looking at it from Huck's perspective before reading his response. Jiujitsu, or even submission grappling, make an infinite amount more sense as Olympic sports as opposed to something involving pure MMA. They're more viewer-friendly in terms of something a family can watch - i.e. no striking or blood - and are not as demanding on the athlete's body as full contact combat. Also, can you imagine how horrendous a match would be if the fighter's were forced to wear protective padding (as they do in Olympic Boxing)? I think I'll pass on that one. Consider me officially on the "Olympic MMA out, Olympic BJJ/Submission-Grappling in" bandwagon!

That being said, someone please sign Team USA gymnast Alicia Sacramone up for BJJ lessons post-haste. The world needs to see those thighs lock a few Chinese pre-teens in Triangle Chokes...and more importantly, my DVR demands it!


5. Manny Gamburyan would be better served by dropping to 145 pounds and competing as a Featherweight in the WEC.

Adam Tool FACT. Personally, I feel Manny Gamburyan would be better served by dropping off the face of the Earth. Since that probably won't happen let's answer the question. As long as he's still fighting under the Zuffa banner then why not? The WEC is always looking for guys to feed to Urijah Faber, and with a solid win or two Manvel could easily line up for a title shot. However it's more likely that he'll continue to stick it out in the UFC so he can continue to try and get back at his arch-nemesis: Nate Diaz.

Michael Huckaby: FICTION. It all depends on what you mean by "better served." Would he probably be more successful at 145lbs and get more wins? Yes, until he ran into Urijah Faber. Or does "better served" mean he'd make a bigger name for himself, make more money and be seen by more people? Gamburyan may not be any type of contender on the level of BJ Penn or Sean Sherk but neither is any other lightweight in the UFC. Florian, Huerta, Stevenson, Griffin, you could go on and on with the number of UFC LWs that pose no challenge to BJ Penn or Sean Sherk. I don't see them dropping down, and so long as they feed Manny more people like Jeff Cox, why not stay in the UFC and get paid while improving your celebrity? He could be more successful at 145lbs in the WEC but I really don't think that makes him better served for his career. And does anyone really think Emerson is better than him? 10 second KO losses are some of the best ones you can get because people can easily just call it a fluke (hi Matt Lindland vs David Terrell).

SCORE: 2 for 5. Harsh, Adam...harsh. Prepare for a crazy Armenian to be on your doorstep in the morning. I'm unsure as to whether it'll be Manny Gamburyan or his cousin, Karo Parisyan, but you better be prepared to be called "bro" a lot in a heated exchange with one of the two.


6. Chuck Liddell will knock out Rashad Evans at UFC 88.

Adam Tool: FICTION. First off, Evans does not (and most likely will not) get the credit he deserves. The man is still undefeated after 14 professional fights, including six wins inside the Octagon. There's no doubt the man is double-tough. Will he get knocked out? It's possible, especially with the flesh-colored bricks Liddell has strapped to the end of his arms. However, given Evans' fight history and the recent fighting style of Liddell, I'd say it's far more likely that this one will end on the judges' scorecards.

Michael Huckaby: FICTION. Probably the hardest one to answer of the bunch. Yes, Rashad can be boring and plodding but keep in mind Chuck hasn't KO'd anyone since he beat Tito a couple of years ago. Rashad is another Couture/Sobral/Ortiz tailor-made wrestler for Chuck to knockout but Rashad is young and improving, and I don't know that he'll put himself in that kind of situation. Plus, let us not forget to mention Chuck doesn't have five rounds to KO these wrestlers anymore...he's not the champion. Rashad can't exactly stand with Chuck, but he can't exactly take it to the ground either. Saying that, you'd think it would be a knockout, but Rashad has a strong chin and I think there's a decent chance he might stand with him for a majority of this and not take a huge combo that will find him on his butt. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Chuck gives Rashad his first career loss, but I'm going to have to guess it would be by decision.

SCORE: 3 for 6. Rashad's boxing is better than advertised, and I expect him to be fairly elusive when the two face off in Atlanta, but I'm not convinced his chin will hold up to Liddell if Chuck lands any series of strikes. However, one thing to also keep in mind is Evans' close relationship with fellow Greg Jackson student Keith Jardine (who happens to know a thing or two about beating "The Iceman"). Liddell also happens to be coming off a torn hamstring. From those perspectives, a good part of me thinks Rashad will not only weather Chuck's storm, but has a pretty good chance at actually coming out the victor and possible next contender to Forrest Griffin's UFC Light Heavyweight championship..


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Join us next week when two more participants discuss Rich Franklin as a Light Heavyweight, EliteXC's immediate future, a huge NYE rumor regarding Anderson Silva, and a few other issues lingering out there in the land o' MMA...