411MMA Fact or Fiction 08.27.08: Florian Wasting his Time Against Stevenson, Franklin to Stay at Light Heavyweight, Liddell Should Be Favored Against Silva, MORE!

Posted by Bren Oliver on 08.27.2008

Should EliteXC strip KJ Noons of his Lightweight title for refusing to fight Nick Diaz? Is Cheick Kongo underestimating Brock Lesnar? Will Kimbo Slice get a championship push if Antonio Silva's steroid suspension holds up? Heated rivals, and 411Mania contributors, Dustin James and Larry Csonka roll up their sleeves to discuss these topics and more in this week's Fact or Fiction!

I thought I'd start off today's column with a bit of breaking news. According to my sources, Quinton "Rampage" Jackson has been charged with a seventh criminal offense - not reading "Fact or Fiction"! Click it or ticket, folks! Fortunately for those of you reading these lines, it appears as though you'll be spared the wrath of the law for at least another week, meaning more time to read 411Mania's MMA Zone and less time for body-cavity searches. Disappointing, I know.

This edition's participants are no stranger to the pages of "Fact or Fiction" or 411Mania in general. First up is one of the best MMA writers with two first names you'll find - Dustin James. Dustin's work can be found daily in our "News" section, as well as being the motivating force behind 411Mania's weekly MMA Rankings. The Oregon native is up against stiff competition, though hopefully he'll stop browsing our Gina Carano gallery for a few minutes and present himself in a professional manner. AHEM! Jokes aside, this fellow needs little introduction, as he's a contributor to every section of this place and is essentially the glue that keeps the 411Mania engine chugging along (though we MMAers have been fortunate enough to steal his attention away more often than not). I'm, of course, talking about Larry Csonka. James and Csonka actually have a bit of a friendly rivalry behind the scenes, with Dustin actually requesting to be paired up against the notorious "L-T-C", so expect each of them to bring their "A" game. As to the reason behind the situation, I can't be sure, though rumor has it a bottle of maple syrup and three possibly-drugged squirrels were involved. Feel free to draw your own conclusions. Now that's out of the way, let's get to this week's sexy six subjects, shall we?

Readers...are you ready? Fellow columnists...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. Rich Franklin will stay at Light Heavyweight if he soundly defeats Matt Hamill come UFC 88.


Dustin James: FACT. Rich Franklin has nothing to gain in the Middleweight division as long as the champion is some guy named Anderson Silva. If Franklin can defeat Matt Hamill, then he has already defeated a solid competitor in the UFC's Light Heavyweight division - not to mention there are TONS of great potential fights for Franklin at LHW. He could face Wanderlei Silva, Chuck Liddell, Shogun Rua, Quinton Jackson, etc etc etc. The only thing that this hurts is the UFC's Middleweight division due to the fact that it's one of the weakest divisions (next to Heavyweight) in the UFC. Anderson Silva has dominated the division and there really isn't a slew of challengers left for him to take out, especially if he gets through Patrick Cote and possibly Yushin Okami. So ya, Franklin to LHW is a great idea in my book.


Larry Csonka: FACT. I think it has to be a fact. Actually I think it is a fact whether he wins or loses. The fact of the matter is that Franklin is a former Middleweight Champion, but he cannot beat Anderson Silva. He has beat everyone else in that division for the most part, but Silva has his number. If he wants to make money with the UFC, his future is in the move to Light Heavyweight. The reason for this isn't so much that I think he can win the title at LHW, but for the fact that there are tons of fresh match ups for him there, fresh match ups draw in the PPV buyer, and that makes UFC money, which in turn makes "Ace" money. And if he does win matches and makes it to the title, it is just a bonus for UFC to hype him as dominant in multiple weight divisions. There is one interesting thing that gets me interested, and that is the fact that back in 2003, Franklin lost to Lyoto Machida - the same Lyoto Machida that is 5-0 in the UFC and 13-0 overall. That could be money if Franklin can get together a few wins, Lyoto Machida stays undefeated and or wins the title soon, and if the UFC properly hypes the match.


SCORE: 1 for 1. I was surprised by how firm each of you were in your reasoning without bringing up the emphasis on "Ace" having a dominating performance against Hamill. However, while you each make great individual points, I happen to think there are quite a few interesting match-ups left for Franklin at 185-pounds even if the division's championship is relatively unobtainable. Sure, the only person who wants to see Franklin vs. Silva III is Rich's plastic surgeon, but there is still money to be made at Middleweight without Anderson Silva ever entering the picture. Two potential opponents for Franklin with tremendous PPV-buyrate upside are Michael Bisping and Dan Henderson. As chance would have it, "The Count" competes at UFC 89 and Henderson is sharing billing with Franklin at UFC 88, meaning all three men should be ready to enter the Octagon once again around the same time, and thereby opening up the chance for a bout to be made. I can see Rich dabbling in the Light Heavyweight division, especially if he turns in a great performance against the often underrated Hamill, but his best opportunity for consistent success - and the place where he has a size advantage - is the Middleweight division. Sure, he'll likely never beat Anderson Silva for the title, but are his chances much better when it comes to running the 205-pound gauntlet (Wanderlei Silva/Quinton Jackson/Lyoto Machida/Chuck Liddell/"Shogun" Rua/Forrest Griffin)?


2. KJ Noons should be stripped of his EliteXC Lightweight title due to his refual to face Nick Diaz.


Dustin James: FACT. Bottom line, a champion should face whoever the company wants him too. The name on that belt says "EliteXC", and if EliteXC wants him to face Nick Diaz, then that's who he's facing. The big problem that Noons has in this fight is that deep down inside, I think he's a little intimidated by Diaz. Diaz lost their last fight due to a nasty cut, so does Noons have confidence he can cut Diaz that badly again? Noons' camp has gone on record and stated that KJ has nothing to gain from this fight. What? How about the fact that a lot of fans (and Diaz himself) thought that was a bullsh*t decision to call the fight especially considering that Diaz was still going full throttle. That what Noons has to gain. If he wants to prove himself as an elite Lightweight in MMA, then he needs to step up and take on all challengers, and it starts with Nick Diaz. The fight has been cancelled and it's my opinion EliteXC should let the Noons camp know that if he doesn't accept the fight by year's end....he will no longer be the champion.


Larry Csonka: FACT. Very much fact. Let me state, for those who don't follow my corner of the MMA section, that I have been a fan and supporter of KJ Noons. I never thought people gave him enough credit and I thought he was a good up and coming fighter. I picked him to beat Diaz and to retain against Yves. I think with continued work he could be a very good MMA fighter for years to come. Also, let me state that I am NOT the biggest fan of Nick Diaz. But the fact of the matter is this...while Noons tooled Diaz in their first fight, and busted him open to the degree that it needed stopped, they need to have a rematch. Yes Diaz missed weight against Corbrey, and I thought that it was very unprofessional. But before that, he soundly defeated Katsuya Inoue and recently took out Thomas Denny on CBS. Denny is a sound veteran that did well early, and that is a strong win for Diaz. Diaz is 3-0 since the loss to Noons. I think that more than proves that he deserves the shot. Add onto this that they shot the hot angle in Hawaii and they have a MONEY FIGHT on their hands. Elite knows it, Diaz knows it and for some reason KJ has developed sand in the vagina and wants no part of it. Some say that it is fear, others say Noons is trying to re-negotiate his deal because he knows it is money and that he is underpaid. There is also the theory that he is Gary Shaw's boy and creation, and he may be looking to get out of the deal to go back to boxing. Well KJ, this isn't boxing, and I am sick of guys trying to hand pick opponents. EliteXC should strip him of the title not only because Diaz deserves a rematch, but because Noons is pissing away one of their few money matches which is hurting the company as a whole. So much for Noons saying that he'll take anyone on. Man up dude, Diaz made weight last time and won like you said he needed to. Take the fight.


SCORE: 2 for 2. To me, Nick Diaz isn't even part of the equation (and I'm not referring to title contendership). A wise man once said, "The name on that belt says "EliteXC", and if EliteXC wants him to face Nick Diaz, then that's who he's facing." KJ Noons is an EliteXC employee. He has a handful of fights to his name and is not too far removed from being knocked out courtesy of Charles Bennett. The promotion he works for is depending on him, as champion, to carry their organization to a certain extent. As Csonka points out, his refusal to not only fight the company's top available contender, let alone an opponent with a built-in storyline to sell the bout, does more than damage KJ Noons' reputation as a professional Mixed Martial Artist - it hurts a struggling fight promotion in desperate need of fans/ratings.



3. Chuck Liddell will be favored to win if he participates in a rumored bout against Anderson Silva on New Year's Eve.


Dustin James: FICTION. Nobody outside of possibly Fedor Emelianenko should be considered a favorite against Anderson Silva. The guy is just THAT dominant. He hasn't seen the third round since 2004, whereas Chuck's last two fights have gone to decision...with one of them a loss to Keith Jardine. Chuck has very good stand-up, but Silva's is better. Chuck would want to stand-up the whole fight which is not a good idea when it comes to Anderson Silva. Why? Because the guy has never been knocked out. I think the fight would be exciting and it's definitely one that I would want to see....but I would not bet against Silva. No way, no how.


Larry Csonka: FICTION. Although I guess it really depends on if he wins against Rashad. Say Chuck goes out and knocks Rashad the f*ck out in round one like the Chuck of old - then I would say that he gets some advantage on the betting books because he just killed a man and because he is Chuck Liddell. Anderson Silva is a machine that was created to fight and kill men, but Chuck Liddell is a name and was the biggest star for UFC at one point. If Silva kills who ever he faces next, which he likely will, and Chuck kills Rashad, then it is close. But, I don't see Chuck defeating Rashad easily. Actually, I think Rashad has a good chance of winning the fight, which in turn would hurt Chuck's chances of being favored in this rumored bout.


SCORE: 3 for 3. By my count, Csonka mentioned killing people four times. Please tell me your "real world" job has metal detectors at the front door?!? As far as the topic goes, I'm stunned to see such one-sided belief in Anderson Silva being favored over Chuck Liddell. It's not that I disagree per say. It's just strange. Let's not forget the only strike-based TKOs of Liddell's career came courtesy of Randy Couture and Quinton Jackson. Silva has neither their size or grappling ability. I'd argue "The Spider" is far more precise on his feet than either "The Natural" or "Rampage", but I'd also say Silva has never faced someone with Liddell's power or stand-up ability. I'm not sure who I'd favor if the two actually fight, though I am certain it won't be an easy decision to make. I also know I'll be tuning in.


---SWITCH!!!---


4. If Antonio Silva is stripped of his belt, EliteXC will attempt to make Kimbo Slice the company's next Heavyweight champion.


Larry Csonka: FACT. This will be an unpopular opinion, but yes, they should strip Silva and then they should make Kimbo Slice the next champion, or at least attempt to make him the next champion. EliteXC initially made a good decision by booking Silva in a bout to crown their first Heavyweight Champion. He was 3-0 with the company and had defeated Cabbage as well as Ricco Rodriguez. He was a huge man that dropped from super heavy down to heavy, a "real MMA fighter", and he appeared to be the guy to center things around. He main evented the Showtime portion of their last event, and he defeated Justin Eilers in the second round in an impressive fashion. So they picked the athlete, the "real MMA fighter", and he got popped for a veterinary steroid. Yeah, that sucks. They have no real Heavyweight division as we speak, and they are losing money, so they have no choice but to turn to Kimbo. While many "traditional" MMA fans hate the man, they cannot deny that he gets people interested. Kimbo Slice's fight with Tank Abbot is the highest rated Elite show to ever air on Showtime, Kimbo Slice was the reason that Elite XC drew their first sell out crowd, and Kimbo Slice was the reason the first CBS show did good in the ratings with a constant increase. While the MMA message boards want to fawn over the "pure sport" of it all, pure sport isn't paying the bills. Sup IFL? EliteXC just lost their golden giant, they are losing money, and the prescription to fix this ailment is NOT more cowbell, but Kimbo Slice. Bottom lin - if they don't make money they don't stay in business.


Dustin James: FICTION. The company had their chance to put the title on Slice a few months back, but chose to put "Bigfoot" in a title fight over Kimbo. It's my opinion that if EliteXC does strip Silva of his title (which I don't see happening), then the company will try to put the title on Brett Rogers and keep building up heat for that potentially "huge" Slice/Rogers fight that could come in 2009. I don't think EliteXC would feel safe with Kimbo holding their Heavyweight title knowing that MMA fans would be clamoring for Kimbo to fight bigger names, leaving him more prone for an upset. It would just be a bad idea for Kimbo to hold any title in MMA other than the title of "scariest looking dude in MMA".


SCORE: 3 for 4. I'm sure Ken Shamrock might have something to say about Kimbo Slice cruising to the Heavyweight championship - thank goodness I don't have to hear it! His face-time on TUF 3 was brutal, was it not? My turn to "bottom line" it. Brett Rogers is EliteXC's next Heavyweight title-holder (assuming the company lasts long enough to crown a second champ). If the company heads were smart they would be building him as the "8-0 with eight knockouts" beast that he is. Rogers is an outspoken fighter with a marketable look who also happens to have called out Kimbo Slice. Of course, instead of stick him on CBS this October where he belongs, EliteXC is instead saving him for a November fight on Showtime. It's a shame. They have fifty-five million reasons to try and expose him to the masses.

Okay, that was more of a "midway down" line, wasn't it? My bad!


5. Ken Florian has little to gain by competing against Joe Stevenson at UFC 91.


Larry Csonka: FACT. I will venture to say that Ken Florian not only has very little to gain, but also has EVERYTHING to lose in this bout. Florian just defeated Roger Huerta in what was his 5th straight win in the UFC. The bout was rumored to be a #1 Contender's fight, but with Huerta's contract issues, and pissing contest with Dana White ,that fact was downplayed once we got to that fight. He schooled Huerta and looked to be headed towards a title match. But with the BJ Penn vs. GSP match basically official, Florian now has to either fight or take a long wait. Stevenson is a dangerous fighter, he is 29-8 overall and sports a 6-2 record in the UFC. He is also looking to gain another title shot, and a desperate man is a dangerous man. I will say it again, Florian has EVERYTHING to lose in this bout, with the only gain being the fact that he could be looked at as the "undisputed" #1 Contender, which I feel he already is.


Dustin James: FACT. I was actually surprised that Ken-Flo took this fight. I thought he may take some time off to rest and wait for BJ Penn to face GSP. Either that or perhaps face some scrub just to keep his win total going. I'm very surprised he would want to face Stevenson. Stevenson is by no means a slouch, leaving Florian very prone to be upset. "Joe Daddy" didn't face BJ Penn for the UFC Lightweight title early this year just to feed Penn an opponent. He is a legit challenger in the Lightweight division and is way more experienced than Florian. Stevenson's favorite move is the guillotine choke and Florian has never been submitted, so advantage Florian. I honestly see Florian taking a decision here, but like I said....where does that put him? #1 Contender? I was pretty sure he earned that distinction with a win over Roger Huerta at UFC 87.


SCORE: 4 for 5. Slippery, slippery subject. It feels a bit greased up to me. Regardless, while I admire Florian's "warrior spirit", I feel he's wasting his time by facing Joe Stevenson when there are opponents out there with more upside who are lesser threats. Frank Edgar and Tyson Griffin (assuming he beats Sean Sherk) are both superior in nature to Joe Stevenson where Ken Florian's career is concerned simply because Griffin is considered neck-and-beck with "Ken-Flo" as far as title-contendership, and Edgar is the only fighter to have beaten the afore mentioned Mr. Griffin.


6. Cheick Kongo will eat the following quote one day (courtesy of his recent interview with MMARated) - "There's really nothing that worries me too much with Brock Lesnar."


Larry Csonka: FACT. Nothing that worries you Cheick? Really, seriously? Listen, Cheick Kongo is an accomplished fighter, and his standup should and likely will cause problems for Brock if he can stay on the feet. But the fact is that Brock HAS shown great punching power (sup Heath), and if and when he takes it to the ground, no matter how much Cheick Kongo has improved on the ground, he is NOT near Brock's level. Nothing that worries you, Cheick? You know as well as I do that what you said stinks like bullsh*t.


Dustin James: FACT. Are you kidding me? Has Kongo not seen Lesnar fight yet? Kongo himself lost to Heath Herring back at UFC 82. Lesnar just beat Herring at UFC 87. That right there should give Kongo plenty to worry about. Especially with the way that Lesnar mauled Herring. Lesnar really needs to work on finishing fights and not be so worried about getting caught with a submission again. However, Kongo is by no means a submission artist so Lesnar shouldn't worry too much going into this fight if it happens. It will be a stand-up fight that will quickly turn into Lesnar shooting in for the take down and trying to control Kongo. It might not be the prettiest fight, but if I were Kongo.....I'd be worried. Oh yeah, and CSONKA EATS POOP!


SCORE: 5 for 6. "Cheick, please."


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Join us next week when two more participants discuss Slice vs. Shamrock, Affliction's second card, three-way MMA, and a few other issues lingering out there in the land o' MMA...