411's MMA Rankings 8.28.08: Light Heavyweight Rankings
Posted by Dustin James on 08.28.2008
It's time for 411mania to rank the best light heavyweight fighters in MMA again! Who takes the #1 spot? Forrest Griffin? Quinton Jackson? Chuck Liddell? 411's Dustin James gives you all the answers inside.....
Welcome back to the best set of rankings currently running on 411mania.com! As always I'm your wonderful host Dustin James and we have got some HUGE news to talk about folks. Aren't you glad you came to check out 411's light heavyweight rankings? I sure am glad to see you. I promise not to waste too much of your time but I have something huge I need to discuss.....
HUGE NEWS: UFC Coming To Portland
That's right! It was made official this week by UFC president Dana White that the UFC will FINALLY be coming to the great city of Portland, which happens to be about 5 minutes from where I live! I couldn't be more ecstatic. So far they have announced that Kenny Florian will face Joe Stevenson, and Brock Lesnar could end up facing Cheick Kongo. While both those fights are great fights.....I'm hoping that they will still announce a bigger main event. What's Forrest Griffin doing anyways? Either way, if you are going to this event than there's a great chance you will see me. I will be the guy walking around trying to find BJ Penn so I can challenge him for his UFC lightweight title. I think I have a 2.9995% of beating him for it. Welcome to Portland, UFC!
On with the good stuff........
411's MMA Ranking Rules
- If a fighter hasn't fought in a year, he can not be ranked. It's not fair to people who are fighting to not be ranked because a fighter is taking a year off. However, if a fighter schedules a fight he is still eligible for being ranked.
- If you wish to complain about a fighter's ranking in the comments section, then please include an objective reason as to why you don't like the ranking, and include your own set of rankings if you would!
- 411's MMA Rankings are voted on by the staff of 411mania. Therefore, if you don't like where a fighter is ranked you have to hate the 411 MMA staff as a whole. But we can take it, we are men. But remember that some of us are sensitive and don't like being called names like "New York Mets" fans.
411's Official MMA Rankings: Light Heavyweight Division
Light Heavyweight Division (205 lbs)
1) Forrest Griffin (16-4)
Height: 6'3
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Mauricio Rua - Win by submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Hector Ramirez - Win by decision (unanimous) - UFC 72: Victory - July 16, 2007
- vs. Keith Jardine - Loss by TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz 2 - December 30, 2006
- vs. Stephan Bonnar - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 62: Liddell vs. Sobral - August 26, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently unknown
Comments: Forrest Griffin has been rather quiet since his upset defeat over Quinton "Rampage" Jackson back in July. It seems that the UFC is struggling to put together a huge main event for UFC 91 in Portland, well....why not add Forrest Griffin to the card? Forrest is a huge draw for the UFC and would add intrigue to the card. The big question would be, who would Forrest face? I'm all up for a Rampage/Griffin re-match, however it's looking like Rampage will face Shogun in December. POOEY. Give everybody the re-match they want to see, and put it in my hometown of Portland, Oregon bitches. Either way, Forrest should fight again before the end of the year. One fight a year is not very active, especially for the champion of one of the UFC's best weight divisions. GET ON IT FORREST!
2) Quinton Jackson (28-7)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: June 20, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin - July 5, 2008
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
- vs. Marvin Eastman - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 67: All or Nothing - February 3, 2007
- vs. Matt Lindland - Win via decision (split) - WFA - King of the Streets - July 22, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently unknown
Comments: Well, not much new with "Rampage" since his run-in with the law last month. Hopefully we will be able to put that behind us and see what's next for one of my personal favorite fighters. The rumor is that it will be Rampage vs. Shogun at the UFC's December 27 show in Las Vegas, Nevada. This is a great fight for Rampage as it gives him a chance to redeem his previous loss to Shogun back in 2005 at PRIDE's "Total Elimination 2005" where Shogun beat Rampage via KO. It would be an interesting fight for sure, however like I mentioned above. I would prefer to see Rampage fight in November, so I can see him LIVE.
3) Chuck Liddell (21-5)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: December 17, 1969
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Wanderlei Silva - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Keith Jardine - Loss via decision (split) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Quinton Jackson - Loss via TKO (strikes) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Win via TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz II - December 30, 2006
- vs. Renato Sobral - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 62: Liddell vs. Sobral - August 26, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Rashad Evans - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
Comments: A big rumor going around is that the winner of Chuck Liddell vs. Rashad Evans next Saturday will face Forrest Griffin for the UFC light heavyweight title. That means that Liddell should not take Rashad lightly and try to beat him quickly so he can stay in good health and perhaps face Forrest Griffin (the man he coached on the first season of The Ultimate Fighter) for the UFC light heavyweight title at the December 27 show in Vegas. Wouldn't that be a fantastic show? Griffin vs. Liddell, & Rampage vs. Shogun? Either way, Liddell needs to get through "Sugar" first before he can even consider facing Griffin for the title.
4) Lyoto Machida (13-0)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: May 3, 1978
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Win via submission (arm triangle choke) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. David Heath - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 70: Nations Collide - April 21, 2007
- vs. Sam Hoger - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC 67: All or Nothing - February 3, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Thiago Silva - UFC 89: "Bisping vs. Leben" - October 18, 2008
Comments: We are less than two months away from the Lyoto Machida/Thiago Silva "battle of the undefeated". One of them will win and become a top contender for the UFC light heavyweight title, and one of them will lose forcing them to try to climb back up the UFC's "light heavyweight ladder" which is PACKED. I'm jazzed for this fight. You know what the best part about it is? It's going to be on Spike TV for free! Woooo, I love not having to pay for great MMA fights!
5) Wanderlei Silva (32-8-1-1)
Height: 5'11
Birthday: July 3, 1976
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Keith Jardine - Win via KO (punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Loss via decision (unanimous) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Dan Henderson - Loss via KO (left hook) - PRIDE 33: The Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Mirko Cro Cop - Loss via KO (head kick) - PRIDE Final Conflict Absolute - September 10, 2006
- vs. Kazuyuki Fujita - Win via TKO (strikes) - PRIDE - Critical Countdown Absolute - July 1, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Currently unknown
Comments: There was a rumor going around that the UFC was interested in booking Wanderlei Silva vs. Rampage Jackson for either UFC 91 in Portland or UFC 92 in Las Vegas. However, those rumors seem to have stopped considering Shogun Rua recently came out and announced that the UFC had offered him a fight against Rampage in December. What's that mean for Wanderlei? He has already expressed his interest in fighting again in December, so who are some possible opponents? Intriguing times ahead........
6) Mauricio "Shogun" Rua (16-3)
Birthday: November 25, 1981
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Loss via submission (rear naked choke) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Alistair Overeem - Win via KO (strikes) - PRIDE 33: Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via decision (unanimous) - PRIDE Shockwave 2006 - December 31, 2006
- vs. Kevin Randleman - Win via submission (kneebar) - PRIDE 32: The Real Deal - October 21, 2006
- vs. Cyrille Diabate - Win via TKO (stomps) - PRIDE - Final Conflict Absolute - September 10, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Currently injured
Comments: Like I have mentioned previously, Shogun announced that the UFC offered him a fight against Rampage for the December 27 show in Las Vegas. One thing is clear however....Shogun NEEDS to schedule a fight in order to stay ranked. Its almost been a year since his loss to Forrest Griffin. He needs to get back in there and remind everybody (especially the people who say he doesn't belong here) that he is one of the TOP light heavyweights in MMA. If you say otherwise, you just don't know the sport very well.
7) Keith Jardine (13-4-1)
Height: 6'2
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Wanderlei Silva - Loss by KO (punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Win by decision (split) - UFC 76: Knockout - September 22, 2007
- vs. Houston Alexander - Loss by KO (punches) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
- vs. Forrest Griffin - Win by TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz 2 - December 30, 2006
- vs. Wilson Gouveia - Win via decision (unanimous) - UFC - Ultimate Fighter 3 Finale - June 24, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Brandon Vera - UFC 89 "Bisping vs. Leben" - October 18, 2008
Comments: It was announced a few weeks back that Keith Jardine would be facing Brandon Vera at UFC 89 in October, which is FREE on Spike TV! This is a huge fight for both fighters. If Jardine doesn't pull off the win here it would be his third loss in four fights....yikes. And Vera needs this win as well. He made his light heavyweight debut back at UFC Fight Night 14 and looked awful. He needs an impressive win in order to move up the ranks of the UFC's LHW division. Either way, this is a BIG fight for both fighters.
8) Thiago Silva (13-0)
Height: 6'1
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Antonio Mendes - Win via submission (punches) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Houston Alexander - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 78: Validation - November 17, 2007
- vs. Tomasz Drwal - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion - September 8, 2007
- vs. James Irvin - Win via TKO (knee injury) - UFC 71: Liddell vs. Jackson - May 26, 2007
- vs. Tatsuya Mizuno - Win via KO (soccer kick) - Pancrase - Rising 2 - February 28, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - UFC 89: "Bisping vs. Leben" - October 18, 2008
Comments: See: Machida, Lyoto
9) Rashad Evans (11-0-1)
Height: 5'11
Birthday: September 25, 1979
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Michael Bisping - Win via decision (split) - UFC 78: Validation - November 17, 2007
- vs. Tito Ortiz - Draw - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
- vs. Sean Salmon - Win via KO (high kick) - UFC Fight Night 8 - January 25, 2007
- vs. Jason Lambert - Win via KO (punches from mount) - UFC 63: Hughes vs. Penn - September 23, 2006
- vs. Stephan Bonnar - Win via decision (majority) - UFC - Ultimate Fight Night 5 - June 28, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Chuck Liddell - UFC 88: Breakthrough - September 6, 2008
Comments: Next weekend is a HUGE weekend for Rashad. It basically will show just how great Evans could be. Is he one of the best in the UFC's light heavyweight division? One thing is clear....if he manages to beat Chuck Liddell he could end up facing Forrest Griffin for the UFC light heavyweight title in a battle that would also feature the winner of The Ultimate Fighter season 1 and season 2. Talk about a potential dream fight for the UFC.
10) Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou (5-2)
Birthday: April 18, 1984
Currently Fighting With: UFC
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura - Win via TKO (leg injury) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Lyoto Machida - Loss via submission (arm triangle choke) - UFC 79: Nemesis - December 29, 2007
- vs. Ricardo Arona - Win via KO (punch) - PRIDE 34: Kamikaze - April 8, 2007
- vs. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira - Win via TKO (strikes) - PRIDE 33 - Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Glover Teixeira - Loss via TKO (strikes) - WEC 24: Full Force - October 12, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Luiz Cane - UFC 89: "Bisping vs. Leben" - October 18, 2008
Comments: Soko has a huge fight coming up in the month of October that should let everybody know if he's for real or not. After exploding on to the MMA scene with HUGE upset wins over Lil Nog and Ricardo Arona, Soko suffered a little set back when he lost to Machida in his UFC debut. After defeating Nakamura at UFC 84, Soko regained some of his steam. However, now he is facing Luis "Banha" Cane. A fighter who is 8-1 as a pro and is 2-0 thus far in the UFC with wins over James Irvin and Jason Lambert. Can Soko prove that he belongs amongst the UFC's elite? We will find out in October.
On the bubble:
(On the bubble includes fighters who almost cracked the Top 10. These fighters remain serious threats in their current division)
Tito Ortiz (15-6-1)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: January 23, 1975
Currently Fighting With: Free Agent
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Lyoto Machida - Loss via Decision (unanimous) - UFC 84: Ill Will - May 24, 2008
- vs. Rashad Evans - Draw - UFC 73: Stacked - July 7, 2007
- vs. Chuck Liddell - Loss via TKO (punches) - UFC 66: Liddell vs. Ortiz 2 - December 30, 2006
- vs. Ken Shamrock - Win via TKO (punches) - Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3: The Final Chapter - October 10, 2006
- vs. Ken Shamrock - Win via TKO (strikes) - UFC 61: Bitter Rivals - July 8, 2006
Next scheduled appearance:
- vs. Currently unknown
Vladimir Matyushenko (21-3)
Height: 6'1
Birthday: January 4, 1971
Currently Fighting With: IFL
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Jamal Patterson - Win via TKO (strikes) - IFL: New Jersey - April 4, 2008
- vs. Alex Schoenauer - Win via decision (unanimous) - IFL - World Grand Prix Semifinals - November 3, 2007
- vs. Tim Boetsch - Win via decision (unanimous) - IFL - 2007 Semifinals - August 2, 2007
- vs. Aaron Stark - Win via TKO (punches) - IFL - Everett - June 1, 2007
- vs. Justin Levens - Win via TKO (strikes) - IFL - Los Angeles - March 17, 2007
Next scheduled appearance:
- Currently unknown
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (13-3)
Height: 6'2
Birthday: June 2, 1976
Currently Fighting With: Affliction
Last 5 fights:
- vs. Todd Gouwenberg - Win via TKO - HCF - Destiny - February 1, 2008
- vs. Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou - Loss via TKO (strikes) - PRIDE 33: The Second Coming - February 24, 2007
- vs. Alistair Overeem - Win via TKO (strikes) - PRIDE Critical Countdown Absolute - July 7, 2006
- vs. Mauricio Rua - Loss via decision (unanimous) - PRIDE Critical Countdown 2005 - June 6, 2005
- vs. Dan Henderson - Win via submission (arm bar) - PRIDE - Total Elimination 2005 - April 23, 2005
Posted By: hhhh (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 01:00 AM
In regards to Soko, his upcoming opponent is not 2-0 in the UFC, he is 1-1. He was Dq'd against Irvin after kneeing him in the eye while Irvin was down. Yes Bahna looks like a bad man, but he is not undefeated in the UFC.
Posted By: Matt (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 04:25 AM
How is Rashad Evans 9 ? when he will be facing Chuck liddell for a potential #1 contender-ship !
How is Liddell 3rd when by your own list beat Wanderlei Silva whom you have as 5th ?
The same liddell who got beat by Keith Jardine whom you ranked 7th ( due to the loss from Silva )
Lyoto Machida as much as i hate him should be 2nd not CHUCK LIDDELL ! or at least 2nd ! Rampage should be 3rd just for rematch sake which looks to not be happening
and i find it funny you don't even have Matt Lindland in the top 10 at all ! When he is 21 - 5
Where's Renato Sobral ? 30 - 7 ?
Where's Alistair Overeem 39 - 11 ?
Where's Fabricio Werdum 11- 3 ?
Where's Dan Henderson 22 -7 ?
Dan goes back and fourth ( like Anderson Silva )and said he's going back to light weight after his next fight at UFC 88 to retain his title he won from Wandy Silva in Pride !!
These fighters fought this year so your excuse like you gave last time i protested your list ! Was we all vote in here blah, blah and they have to have fought this year blah, blah , we vote who we think blah , blah !
doesn't fly !!
Now does it !
Posted By: Really thats the list ! (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 04:26 AM
@hhh
Anderson Silva should be ranked #1 ?
For what ? Beating James Irving ? Let me get this straight Anderson beat James Irving in his first UFC LHW match and you think he should be #1 contender ?!!!
Glad i don't have you booking my shows !
you would have blown you load on great build up matches and no doubt ruin fighters before they were ready !
Irving was the bottom of the tier in the LHW division idiot ! Give me a break !
here what i say and agree with !
How is Rashad Evans 9 ? when he will be facing Chuck liddell for a potential #1 contender-ship !
How is Liddell 3rd when by your own list beat Wanderlei Silva whom you have as 5th ?
The same liddell who got beat by Keith Jardine whom you ranked 7th ( due to the loss from Silva )
Lyoto Machida as much as i hate him should be 2nd not CHUCK LIDDELL ! or at least 2nd ! Rampage should be 3rd just for rematch sake which looks to not be happening
and i find it funny you don't even have Matt Lindland in the top 10 at all ! When he is 21 - 5
Where's Renato Sobral ? 30 - 7 ?
Where's Alistair Overeem 39 - 11 ?
Where's Fabricio Werdum 11- 3 ?
Where's Dan Henderson 22 -7 ?
Dan goes back and fourth ( like Anderson Silva )and said he's going back to light weight after his next fight at UFC 88 to retain his title he won from Wandy Silva in Pride !!
These fighters fought this year so your excuse like you gave last time i protested your list ! Was we all vote in here blah, blah and they have to have fought this year blah, blah , we vote who we think blah , blah !
doesn't fly !!
Now does it !
Posted By: WHAT ! (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 04:30 AM
Lyoto Machida should be number one.
;-P
Posted By: David (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 05:14 AM
Triple H would squash these dudes with his massive biceps just like he did Blade.
Posted By: Guest#2009 (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 05:52 AM
Lol, Werdum and Overeim are both fighting at heavyweight.This is a good list, just it sucks to see Shogun drop a position each month, even though he got beat by #1 LHW.
Posted By: James (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 08:13 AM
"How is Rashad Evans 9 ? when he will be facing Chuck liddell for a potential #1 contender-ship !"
Because he's faced lesser competition in a stacked division. When you're highest profile fights are a draw to Tito and a close decision against Bisping, you shouldn't be in the top 5.
"Where's Renato Sobral ? 30 - 7 ?"
Facing lesser competition in Affliction and Strikeforce. Facing Mike Whitehead and Bobby Southworth in a stacked division doesn't make you top 10.
"Where's Alistair Overeem 39 - 11 ?
Where's Fabricio Werdum 11- 3 ?"
Both are HWs now. Keep up.
"Where's Dan Henderson 22 -7 ?
Dan goes back and fourth ( like Anderson Silva )and said he's going back to light weight after his next fight at UFC 88 to retain his title he won from Wandy Silva in Pride !!"
UFC doesn't recognize the Pride titles anymore after the "unification" bouts. Dan has nothing to "retain".
"and i find it funny you don't even have Matt Lindland in the top 10 at all ! When he is 21 - 5"
Lindland's a middleweight.
Posted By: Tonley (Registered) on August 28, 2008 at 09:06 AM
Matt Lindland is a middle weight. This is the light heavyweight rankings.
Allistair Overeem fights at heavyweight. This is the light heavyweight rankings.
Fabricio Verdum is a heavyweight. This is the light heavyweight rankings.
Dan Henderson is fighting at middle weight. This is the light heavyweight rankings.
Next time get a clue before you post something.
Posted By: Scott Kuczkowski (Registered) on August 28, 2008 at 09:26 AM
"and i find it funny you don't even have Matt Lindland in the top 10 at all ! When he is 21 - 5"
I find it funny that you think a middleweight like Lindland should be in our light heavyweight rankings.
Posted By: Adam Tool (Registered) on August 28, 2008 at 09:42 AM
@Guest#2009
i just fell outta my chair laughing
Posted By: dingo (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 09:44 AM
I'm a wandy mark but no way he should be #5. Probably just on the bubble for him, and the rest are pretty good
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 01:03 PM
you guys are idiots. you say Wandy should be on the bubble? why because he lost to Liddell, Cro Cop and Hendo? Dont forget he Just destroyed the NUmber 7 guy on this list and lost a Close UD to the number 3 guy. As far as Chuck shouldn't be number 3? He is 8 and 2 in his last 10 fights with loses to Ranmpage and Jardine. He most def deserves a shot if he beats Rashad, If you all remember he never got a rematch for the title because he knew they wouldnt give it to him right away, but you didnt see him sitting around and bitching about it.. he waited his turn and now it has come. I do think that Jardine needs to be bumped down and T. Silva and Rashad should be moved up.
Posted By: i should have your job (Registered) on August 28, 2008 at 02:08 PM
Anderson Silva doesn't deserve to be on this list yet. He WILL be, with out a doubt, but how many wins does he have in this devision? Exactly. Don't get me wrong, he could beat anyone on this list, but he hasn't done it yet.
Posted By: Jordan (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 03:10 PM
You've still got Lil Nogs old fight on there as scheduled. Just a heads up...
Posted By: MKick (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 03:55 PM
What's funny (or sad) is that I see no way for Forrest to beat Anderson Silva. Hence, those who say Silva should be in the rankings may have a point.
Posted By: Diavo (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Triple H jobbed to Blade if I remember right.
Posted By: Wrongs (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 07:16 PM
Evans at 9?
Whatever man it's your list I guess....
Posted By: Kent Baker (Guest) on August 28, 2008 at 08:10 PM
WHY IS SUGAR 9TH he is way better than Gun,Silva,and Mach and this week he WILL prove it by beating the "luke warm man" chuck liddell
Posted By: where is sugar (Guest) on August 29, 2008 at 06:19 PM
anderson silva is not figting at 205 anymore. he fought irvin with late notice to fill the time slot for the free spike show ufc had planned. anderson has made it very clear he is not fighting a LW. after the cote fight ufc is gonna start mixing in WEC's MW in2 theres 4 some competition. so anderson shouldnt be on this list
Posted By: Guest#2183 (Guest) on August 29, 2008 at 10:20 PM
This list is absolute rubbish
Posted By: guest (Guest) on August 29, 2008 at 10:25 PM
