The Ground and Pound 8.29.08: The Double Edge Sword of Slice vs. Shamrock.

Posted by John Curry on 08.29.2008

This week the Ground and Pound looks at why the Kimbo vs. Shamrock fight doesn’t hurt anyone, advances everyone, and will make for a good show. Plus a quote regarding War Machine’s name change, and a new feature in the column, Remember this Fist, a look an up and coming fighter.




So this week Armageddon began for the sport of Mixed Martial Arts. The trumpets sounded their symphony of death, the scrolls unlocked their condemnations, and the f our horseman rode through delivering their final blows of death to the world. At least that's what you would believe if you looked at the announcement that Kimbo Slice will be fighting Ken Shamrock on the EliteXC's October show on CBS. However, the fact is that any scenario has a potential positive outcome for the EliteXC. While I have never been very excited by the very bland and often uninspired bookings of the EliteXC, this one actually makes sense for the company. Let's take a look at all of the scenarios that could occur and what the possible outcomes would be and what positives could come from them.


First let's just take a brief look at the fighters involved.

Kimbo Slice : Kimbo Slice is probably the most controversial MMA fighter in the world at this point in time. Not because he talks a lot of trash or is disrespectful to everyone, but because of his massive rise to popularity due to his internet status and the somewhat pretentious protection the EliteXC has given him in terms of challenging fights . I have written in great detail how this isn't the fault of Kimbo but of the company in which he works for. While the UFC's Dana White makes all of these statements about Slice, I have a hard time believing that even he wouldn't attempt to protect Slice as much as he could in order to give himself the most marketing value as possible. Since Kimbo has arrived he has fought relative "cans" and by all technicalities lost to Thompson. Now many of the fans and his fiercest opponent, Brett Rogers, have claimed he is ducking Rogers and any real competition.


Ken Shamrock : Shamrock used to be one of the most dominant MMA fighters and no one can deny his impact on the sport. However, in recent years Shamrock's obsession with Tito Ortiz has ruined his legacy and all respect in my eyes when he stated at the end of his last bout against Tito that it was all about the money. Shamrock has become the epitomy of not knowing when to hang it up. However, do not misconstrue what I am saying to mean he has no chance of winning. I am stating that as of recent he has appeared more concerned about the money than the pride.

Now on to the fight scenarios:

Scenario 1: Kimbo wins via TKO, KO, Stoppage.

If Kimbo wins via TKO, KO, or stoppage of any sort, the fact is there will be some level of solidification of how he is a legitimate MMA fighter. He will have beaten a UFC legend that helped build Dana White's UFC into what it is today. Theoretically, the arguments about how Kimbo cannot beat anyone of real MMA quality should cease to exist or at the very least decline somewhat. Ken's career is already considered over in the eyes of many MMA fans, so a loss to Kimbo really won't do anything detrimental to him. Let me state, that this only exists if he is Knocked out or loses due to stoppage by strikes. This outcome would help push the Rogers vs. Kimbo fight as a large scale battle for the potential heavyweight belt, while allowing Ken to return to the Lion's Den in relative obscurity with another large check.

The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening: 2:1

Scenario 2: Kimbo wins by submission

No need to go into this one at all as it WILL NOT Happen but I agreed to discuss all scenarios. If Ken loses by submission we will remember him like we do Elvis, the glory days rather than the end of his career. Now if Kimbo wins by submission it will show his devotion to learning the entire art of Mixed Martial Arts and enable people to see that he is actually able to finish his opponents by a method that doesn't involve knocking them out or having the EliteXC pay the ref double not to stop a fight with him on the losing side (I am not insinuating anything here). The idea that Kimbo can finish a fight by submission at this stage in his career especially against one of the greatest submission fighters of all time, is a long, long shot.

The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening: 1,000,000:1

Scenario 3: Kimbo wins by decision (either unanimous or split)

If Kimbo wins by decision, regardless of whether it is split or unanimous, the simple fact will arise that he took a legend of the sport the full three rounds and emerged successful. This will set up the fact that he can last three full rounds rather than looking gassed after the first round like he did against Thompson. All of which will help to promote the legitimacy of Rogers vs. Slice as being a massive success. Shamrock going the full three rounds would allow him to ride off in to the sunset, again, while holding his head up that he lasted three rounds with Kimbo Slice. Not that he needs to or anything but this will allow him to retain some dignity, of what little is left, that MMA fans have for him.

The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening: 25:1

Scenario 4: Shamrock wins by TKO, KO, or Stoppage.

If Shamrock wins by Technical Knockout, Knockout, or any stoppage due to strikes he will just reestablish himself as a fighter who has regained his step. A win would probably amount to one of two scenarios. The first scenario is going to be the one I see as most logical, Ken Shamrock vs. Frank Shamrock. This fight has been in the works for quite a while and needs to happen sooner than later. A win by Shamrock against Kimbo would immediately put this fight in the works, which would probably end up headlining the next EliteXC on CBS event. The second scenario would be to have Shamrock face Rogers for the title (if it is vacated). While this unfortunately is more than likely going to be the outcome if Shamrock wins, it could be help build up to a potential card of Kimbo vs. Rogers for the title without putting Kimbo in a belt fight too quickly which could lead to some significant backlash.






The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening: 75:1

Scenario 5: Shamrock wins by Submission

If Shamrock wins by submission this will be the easiest one to justify. Shamrock is a beast at submissions and one of the original innovators of submission fighting in MMA. Kimbo losing by submission to Ken Shamrock would do absolutely nothing to hurt his credibility, not as bad as say losing by submission to Thompson. The upside is the same as the previous one.

The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening: 5:1

Scenario 6: Shamrock wins by Decision (Split or Unanimous)

If Shamrock wins by Decision it will show that he is capable still of going three rounds with someone with the striking ability of Slice. After watching the previous two fights against Tito I, and almost every other MMA fan and critic, began to think that he cannot fight someone who is a dominant striker. As for Kimbo, going three rounds with someone who has the name quality as Ken Shamrock definitely would not hurt his career.

The Ground and Pound's Odds of Happening:50:1

In the end this fight was booked as a win-win booking. Regardless of the outcome, as long as no one is seriously injured and barring any Thompson-esque controversy, the EliteXC and the fighters both win.

"Suuure did! Lol Had to. Fuckin wrestling fags were bustin UFCs balls about using it."----War Machine (The fighter formerly known as Jon Kopenhaver) in response to The Ground and Pound verifying the news he heard wasn't a lie.

The Winner of the Ground and Pound's "I Love the Ground and Pound" Contest.

Thanks to Jim for loving the Ground and Pound and Pimping the Big Frog Nutrition shirt. He won the Pride Bushido 9 DVD Kinda shows me who I reach. Stay tuned for the next contest.

Remember this Fist!

Welcome to the newest feature on the Ground and Pound. As many of you who have been readers since the beginning will know, I am a big advocate of helping fighters who may not be well known develop a fan base that they may not be able to reach at this current point in time. Previous fighters covered have included Amir Sadollah, Diesel Shelton, LaVon Maynard and more. So in an effort to bring fighters and fans together I have decided that each week I will include a mini-profile of an up and coming MMA fighter that you should know as you may not hear about them. First up this week:




[] Full Name: Joshua Watson

[] Height: 6'0

[] Weight: 240

[] Record: 2-0 pro 1-0 Amateur


[] Favorite Move: I don't have a favorite move I guess, but I found out last week that they are changing some rules in Mass and are now allowing elbows at all directions. Even 12 to 6. So this has changed up my game plan quite a bit. I'm definitely loving them.

Upcoming fight: Vs Josh Diekmann (7-2) for the heavyweight title for Full Force entertainment Sept 27th


1. If you could fight any one fighter who would it be? I guess it would be Fedor. Not to sound cocky or anything but to be the best you have to beat the best and in my eyes along with most everyone else feel he is the best.

2. What is your favorite tattoo? I would have to say my throat. It sets me apart from most other people. Tattoos are to be unique but so many people are getting sleeves you just gotta step it up a notch. Oh and I'm pretty partial to my knuckles too. "STAY DOWN" Appropriate for the sport.

3. What makes a good fighter? I think it's a mix between my athleticism and my ability to take a punch. Ive always been a great athlete and naturally pick things up quickly. And I've also yet to get rocked or have a strike effect me. So yea a mix of the two

4. What are your goals? My goals are simple. Get into some big shows and have some big fights so that I can make enough money fighting so that I don't have to work any other jobs and train full time. Im hopping after my fight things can start rolling in that direction.

5. What do you want people to know about you? That not all heavyweight fighters are boring. Yes I will agree that there are quite a few boring fighters out there that are HW. But there are other boring fighters that are under HW. There is just a more of them so it isn't as noticeable. I'm NOT a boring HW. You'll see!




Josh Watson courtesy of Chess Game Fight Gear


Don't forget to show Josh's sponsor Chess Game Fight Gear some love and at least check them out as there is some kick ass gear over there at Chess Game Gear.


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