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Punch Drunk Hangover 09.15.08: Smiles and Cries
Posted by Bren Oliver on 09.15.2008






Good morning, afternoon, evening, or whatever in-between time your eyes have found their way to the Punch Drunk Hangover! As is the case most Mondays, I'm here with another one-stop shop for catching up on Mixed Martial Arts news, hoping as always to help you escape from the doldroms of an average Monday like a good grab to the nether regions, waking you up and making your day that much more exciting! Have no fear...the technique is Bas Rutten approved!!!





When words like "unfair", "shame", and "tragic decision" are used in MMA circles, fans and journalists alike are typically referring to an early stoppage, a wrongful point deduction, or a shocking Cecil-Peoples-esque decision to favor an undeserving fighter on the scorecards. In such cases, our faces often turn a various shade of crimson, our fists clinch, and our voices raise. The reaction for many of us...and I do mean "us", as I truly believe one of the things that makes Mixed Martial Arts so special is the sense of community found within...is one based in emotion because we find ourselves invested in what we've seen unfold before our very eyes. In such a way, Evan Tanner's death was much like the sport he made his name in can often be - unfair, a shame, and the result of a tragic decision; an early stoppage to say the least. Our cheeks have been left red, though from a different sort of emotional investment than what we feel when watching a bout. It's one that reminds us MMA is only an athletic endeavor; a game, though one with very high stakes, and something men were doing long before six-figure contracts and sponsorships entered the picture. Evan Tanner lived life his own way, even when it came to his exit from this speck of dust in the cosmos we all call home. And, while it's easy to recognize the world is a little less colorful for his passing, the pain should be eased by the notion we're feeling it so that Tanner no longer has to. He is in a better place, probably watching VHS tapes on a TV made of clouds and teaching himself how to master the afterlife.

WARNING: The following section contains material for big boys. If you do not feel you qualify, this would be the point where people who are offended by objectivity should scroll down to the ol' "medley of items" area. I have always attempted to treat my readership like grown-ups, even in instances of immaturity, and I will continue to give you all the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being forward-thinking adults. I call things like I see them, even at the price of my opinion not necessarily being the most popular one.

The reactions I saw across the internet last week were enough to make Hallmark proud. Perhaps every outpouring of emotion was genuine, and I'm nothing more than a cynic at heart, but what I saw in bulk was a contest to see whose grieving-penis was the largest. Evan Tanner went from being a guy people generally liked, though who received nowhere near the hero worship of current superstars like Georges St. Pierre and Anderson Silva, nor got half the love of icons like Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture, to MMA's most beloved son and a surefire UFC Hall of Fame candidate. His eloquent writings, whether steeped in sadness or humorous, were rarely discussed, yet suddenly 90% of MMA fans came out of the woodwork to say they followed his material religiously. And, to be frank, it made me a bit ill.

The former UFC Middleweight Champion's death was not a tragedy. 88 people dying in a Russian an airplane crash is a tragedy. Thousands displaced by a hurricane is a tragedy. Evan Tanner's death was the end result of a man who made his own rules, who admitted he was going on a dangerous journey with minimal preparation, and who likely died of heatstroke fifteen miles away from a town with gas left in his motorcycle's tank. He admitted even the slightest failure of his equipment could lead to his demise. In a proverbial sense, he swam with Great Whites while draped in chum and got bitten by the biggest shark in the ocean. So, when an individual has accepted the possibility of dying, helps facilitate the circumstances surrounding it, and punches his/her ticket accordingly, I find it hard to shed too many tears other than for his loved ones.

Tanner will be missed by those closest to him far more than anyone simply inspired by a blog he wrote or a great fight he participated in. And yet, even those people recognize the former Texas State Wrestling champion died in the same adventurous spirit with which he lived. There is nothing wrong with honoring Tanner's memory. He was a great human being from all accounts and deserves to be remembered as such. But don't forget there are people far more important in your life than someone you've never met who happens to write a great blog or put on a memorable fight. Find that person, hold them close, and remember our time is limited here no matter how promised tomorrow seems. If you want to truly pay homage to Evan Tanner, do it cherishing the people you love, and by reminding yourself every adventure eventually ends - it's those we share it with that are important. Evan Tanner died alone. Maybe it was a tragedy after all.

There's my three cents - now time to give my spin on a handful of other subjects gracing the headlines this past week. I'd love to hear your thoughts on things, so feel free to shoot me an email or leave a comment at the bottom of the page.


The following medley of items were reported between September 8th, 2008 and September 14th, 2008:


PRIDE veteran Mitsuhiro Ishida (16-4-1) has signed with Strikeforce and will make his United States debut at the "Strikeforce At The Mansion II" show on September 20 against Justin Wilcox (5-2). Ishida was the first man to defeat former Strikeforce Lightweight Champion Gilbert Melendez and is considered a "Top 10" Lightweight by many MMA experts. Ishida's last fight was at DREAM 3 where he lost via submission to Caol Uno.


I'm thrilled to see Strikeforce utilize Japanese talent such as Ishida (and Kazuo Misaki), as a number of Mixed Martial Arts' top fighters call the Land of the Rising Sun their home, and I appreciate the fact American fans will now have an opportunity to see them in action. I hope this move signals a continued exchange of talent between DREAM and Strikeforce, possibly opening up the door up for future matches featuring the likes of Shinya Aoki, Tatsuya Kawajiri, Gegard Mousasi, Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza, and any number of the other talented Lightweights and Middleweights in DREAM who have so rarely - if ever - competed on U.S. soil.

In regards to Mitushiro Ishida vs. Justin Wilcox, I expect it to be a fairly plodding fight between two individuals who rely on their wrestling ability and conditioning to outwork opponents. Four of Wilcox's five wins have come via decision, while twelve of Ishida's sixteen victories have been obtained in the same manner. Folks expecting a slugfest or jiujitsu clinic will likely be very disappointed. I expect Ishida's experience, plus motivation spawned from the bitter taste of defeat in his last fight, to ultimately make the difference on September 20th, and I will be fairly shocked if Wilcox is able to pull out the "W" against someone I view as a vastly superior fighter.


According to his agent, Ken Pavia, UFC middleweight Martin Kampmann is considering a move to the UFC's Welterweight division after a KO loss to Nate Marquardt at UFC 88 this past weekend.


As I said last week, Nate Marquardt's 82-second knockout of Martin Kampmann came as more of a surprise to me than Rashad Evans' highlight reel performance against Chuck Liddell. Kampmann is a seasoned, solid striker with above average jiujitsu. It's not so much that I expected "The Hitman" to beat Marquardt as I was certain the bout would be back-and-forth based on the talent level of each fighter. Kampmann should absolutely try dropping down a weightclass if he can make 170-pounds without sacrificing any of his power or cardio. He has good height for a Welterweight (6'0), making him one of the bigger guys in the division, whereas he's currently at a disadvantage in that regard against larger Middleweights like Yushin Okami, Rich Franklin, Dan Henderson, Nate Marquardt, and Anderson Silva. Having to cut pounds the day before a UFC event may be a bit more physically and mentally taxing than stepping up to the scales at his natural weight, but I expect the extra effort to pay dividends once Kampmann adjusts to the difference and cruises through a few Welterweights en route to the contendership picture.


Affliction's "Day of Reckoning" Event has been postponed until January 17th of 2009. The event will now take place in Anaheim, California at the Honda Center. This is the same venue where Affliction's first show "Banned" was held back on July 19th. The reason for the delay is believed to be due to slow ticket sales. The main event of the show was to be Andrei Arlovski vs. Josh Barnett, with the winner planned to face WAMMA title-holder Fedor Emelianenko.


Though the event may have been pushed back until January of next year, it appears as though Affliction's "day of reckoning" may come sooner than originally expected. Not only is the delay a reflection of MMA fans' dwindling interest in the promotion, but it also affects the public's confidence in how viable Affliction is as an alternative to the UFC. Perception is often reality, and if people start feeling as though Affliction is a sinking ship, there's a good chance they'll move on to greener pastures where their viewership is concerned. Beyond just fans, I also imagine Mixed Martial Artists will think thrice before abandoning the promotion they're fighting for, or even test free agency, with the knowledge Affliction lost money on their first show, then postponed their second show for three months after allegedly selling less than 1,000 tickets for an arena with a capacity to hold over 18,000 people.

It's also a move that negatively affects the fighters' they signed to compete on October 11th; men who are now left scrambling to find alternative events in order to supplement the paycheck they were expecting less than a month from now. MMA is not a sport where fighters draw a monthly salary. They count on being able to compete as a means to pay bills such as their standard utilities, rent, and food. On top of that, a number of Mixed Martial Artists have families, as well as trainers and management to attend to, so removing one of their 4-5 annual paydays often hurts more than just the involved fighter. While some of the bigger names who competed at "Affliction: Banned" are likely doing okay based on the overpayment they received, like Tim Sylvia nearly pulling in a million dollars, I'm more concerned about lesser known Mixed Martial Artists like Dan Lauzon, or IFL guys like Jay Hieron, Roy Nelson, Chris Horodecki who were stuck in limbo while their organization folded and now find themselves once again twiddling their thumbs.

Speaking of Affliction...


Golden Boy Promotions and Affliction Clothing today announced a strategic, multi-level partnership between the two companies that will bring the popular Affliction-brand to the world of boxing and entertainment.

"We have been talking to Affliction over the past several months to figure out a partnership that will take advantage of the expertise of both of our companies," said Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer. "We have found the solution and are extremely excited about starting this partnership immediately."

"Golden Boy Promotions is the top boxing promoter in the world and we look forward to working with them on future projects," said Tom Atencio, Vice President, Affliction. "With our companies working together, it gives Affliction another vehicle to deliver our products to our core customers, as well as utilizing Golden Boy's promotional expertise to further our efforts in Mixed Martial Arts."

The partnership includes:

* For major Golden Boy Promotions fights, Affliction will create a signature Affliction shirt sold on-site and at retail outlets nationwide.

* Affliction will become the official apparel licensee for the Golden Boy Enterprises-owned Ring Magazine, and will adorn t-shirts and other apparel with the iconic Ring logo and classic Ring Magazine covers.

* Golden Boy Promotions and Affliction Entertainment will promote events that will feature both first class boxing matches as well as top notch MMA bouts on the same cards with the inaugural event planned for 2009.



It's no secret that boxing needs to pull from the younger fanbase MMA currently has its grasp on and this move is, in small part, a way of addressing that problem. The first two points of this "strategic partnership" are fairly insiginificant from an Average Joe's standpoint and rightfully so, as they're both strictly related to the business side of things. Each move benefits Atencio's group in the sense they create additional exposure for the company, while associating themselves with the Affliction brand should improve Golden Boy's standing in the eyes of 18-34 year old males based on the label's "cool" factor. That being said, it's really the third item that people should keep their eyes on.

The battle between MMA and boxing has been ongoing since Mixed Martial Arts picked up steam a few years ago, while there's been a steady decline of interest in the "sweet science" due to promotional infighting, meaningless rankings, and the lack of a strong Heavyweight division (which had always been boxing's strongest drawing weightclass). People, for the most part, picked one side while completely eschewing the other. Those in favor of boxing praised its history and questioned the amount of skill required to compete in a sport allowing takedowns, kicks, elbows, and knees. Those on the other side of the fence were quick to point out boxing's habitually weak undercards, the high percentage of fights ending in a decision as opposed to a knockout, corrupt promoters and officials, and argued MMA required far more ability than boxing based on the same factors critics pointed out as being flaws in the sport (takedowns/kicks/elbows/knees). With this annoucement, it appears as though Affliction and Golden Boy Promotions will do their best to bridge the boxing/MMA gap in combat sports in hopes people will learn to love both. It also allows Affliction to brand themselves in a unique way as opposed to being simply one of the countless Mixed Martial Arts companies grasping at Dana White's coattails.

However, I'm not so sure it will work, and I think Affliction is at risk of alienating the very hardcore MMA enthusiasts who have been staunch supporters thus far while turning off average fans who simply want to see one sport or the other. The fact is, adding Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosely, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, or one of Golden Boy's other boxers to a Mixed Martial Arts card does very little for me when it comes to the idea of forking out $45 for a PPV...unless of course one of them was stepping into the ring to compete in MMA. It's nothing against boxing per say so much as wanting to strictly see what I'm tuning in for, as opposed to sitting through a mashed-up event where MMA fights are interspersed with twelve-round decisions that result in two guys who don't even look as though they've been punched once. If I like consuming pepperoni pizza, that's what I order - not half a pie and two pieces of fried chicken.

The concept of mixing MMA and boxing is nothing new, yet it's also never proven to be a successful partnership when it comes to consistently drawing a crowd. Sure, an event last June featuring Kim Couture's face getting mangled by Kim Rose was a joint operation between boxing and MMA promoters and drew around 10,000 people to the Thomas and Mack Center. Tickets for it also happened to be complimentary and they gave out around 18,000 of them. That means approximately half of the audience didn't show up for a free show. What does that say about the possibility of filling up an arena where attending will cost people somewhere in the $50-$1,000+ range? The starpower would no doubt be greater, but so would the expectations, plus I feel comfortable saying most boxing fans couldn't point out Fedor Emelianenko in a line-up and the same can be said for MMA fans where most high-level boxers are concerned. All in all, as excited as I'm sure Affliction expected fans to be about their partnership with Golden Boy, I think a dark cloud is forming over the MMA promotion and the downpour can be expected shortly.


MMAJunkie.com is reporting that the UFC has released "War Machine" Jon Koppenhaver after comments he recently posted on his MySpace blog regarding the death of former UFC Middleweight champion Evan Tanner earlier this week. War Machine posted the following bulletin on his myspace where he hinted that Tanner had commited suicide.


Well, I reckon I won't ever be getting a job with Zuffa after today's column. That being said, I think Koppenhaver...er, War Machine...deserved to be released, but not necessarily because of anything he said regarding Evan Tanner. Essentially, the artist formerly known as Jon Koppenhaver alleged suicide to be the cause of Tanner's death shortly after the news broke. He stated he understood how frustrating it could be for a fighter, a former UFC Champion at that, to be closing in on the end of his career without much money or fame to show for it. He also acknowledged Tanner's past problems with alcohol and depression. He never insulted Tanner and was respectful of his passing outside of speculating on the cause. It wasn't an opinion he went to the media with. It was a posting on his MySpace page that he quickly removed once more information on Tanner's death came to light. But, as I said earlier, I still think Koppenhaver's termination was reasonable even if I dislike the fact the UFC can wipe out a ten-fight contract without any legal recourse, yet can also tie Randy Couture up in court for a year when he wants to resign from the organization.

Something left out of this news piece, to which War Machine has admitted, was his refusal to face off against an opponent Joe Silva had lined up for him. He had been offered a bout against Brandon Wolff, a 7-2 fighter with a solid reputation as a tough guy, and felt he had little to gain by fighting someone people had never heard of. Newsflash, Jon - most people have never heard of you either. Turning down a match is akin to pissing in Dana White's breakfast cereal unless you've achieved a relatively high level of success inside the UFC. Koppenhaver actually has an inferior record to Wolff's (only 5-2) and is coming off a sub-minute loss to Yoshiyuki Yoshida. He's not in a place in his career where he can pick opponents. Beyond that, he's on probation for a recent assault charge. Taking all the circumstances into account, I see absolutely no reason to have kept him under contract, and regardless of his personal opinions on Evan Tanner, the UFC did the right thing by letting him go.


The UFC has confirmed that former Octagon girl and current host of UFC All-Access, Rachelle Leah, will appear on the cover of the November issue of Playboy Magazine. The magazine will feature a 10-page pictorial of Leah and will hit newstands in a month.


HL*^nlnkg)0952%":,tw34.....oops, sorry about that! It appears as though the high quantity of drool this news item produced temporarily shorted-out my keyboard. Can someone please let our editor know I'll be "busy" the week this issue of Playboy comes out?!? Since a picture speaks a thousand words, I'll just let the following image do the talking for me in regards to why every heterosexual male in America should be anxiously awaiting November's Playboy...




Jibber-Jabber:

The following soundbyte was delivered over the past week...


Radio/TV host Jim Rome addresses Chuck Liddell's intrest in fighting Anderson Silva...

"Chuck you now look like the drunken frat guy at a party who hit on the wrong guy's girl and ended up on queer street…. There's now speculation that Liddell will try to get his cred back by challenging Anderson Silva. Chuck, my man, if you got any sense and you don't want to end up nose flat on the mat, you'd be wise to stay as far away from The Spider as possible."


Jim Rome should know all about looking like "the drunken frat guy at a party who hit on the wrong guy's girl and ended up on queer street", though in his case she had a name - former NFL Quarterback Jim Everett. Everett may not have slugged Rome into unconsciousness, as Rashad Evans did to Liddell at UFC 88, but he still left the radio/television host on his kiester in highlight-reel fashion after Rome repeatedly called him "Chris Everett" in an attempt to poke fun at the QB's reputation for being soft after taking a shellacking at the hands of the San Francisco 49ers.

Still, the king of "The Jungle" has a point regarding how bright it would be for Chuck Liddell to fight Anderson Silva at this point in his career assuming Liddell is as interested in winning as he is getting paid. Silva is a better striker than "Rampage" Jackson and Rashad Evans, and we all know how Liddell's fights against them went, don't we? "The Spider" is also a very technical, intelligent fighter, and I have little doubt he would enter the cage with an excellent gameplan. Silva is the same height as Liddell and walks around at a similar weight....well, minus Chuck's trademark potbelly. There is nothing about the match-up that I feel works in Liddell's favor. So yes, fighting Anderson Silva would result in a nice bonus check on top of his regular salary (due to the PPV buys it would merit), but doing so could also result in Chuck Liddell retiring from MMA after losing four of his last five bouts.


Kimbo Slice announces his intentions against Ken Shamrock during an EliteXC conference call...

"Being a good grappler like myself -- against a supposed-to-be striker like Ken -- I'll try and break his leg. As far as the ground is concerned -- being a good grappler like myself -- if Ken wants to take it to the ground, I'm going to mangle him up. I'm getting ready to fight the world's deadliest man. That's a big responsibility for my little black ass to fight a guy like Ken Shamrock. This guy has the ability to really f*ck somebody up. He could break a leg and end somebody's career. So I'm not taking this sh*t lightly. This is not a joke to me.

I'm honored to fight Ken Shamrock. I'm bragging about it. I'm excited about it. The respect I have for a legendary fighter like Ken Shamrock, it's a lot of respect. To lose to Ken Shamrock to me is not a bad thing. But to kick his ass is the preferred thing. Either way, I look at it in a good way. I enjoy doing what I do. I just want Ken Shamrock to come with the intent of kicking my ass. I want a guy to try and kick my ass. Knock me the f*ck out. Try and knock me out. Try and break my leg. Do it, because I'm going to damn sure try."



Though I didn't hear the actual conference call, I have to believe Kimbo was kidding when he referred to himself as a "good grappler" even if he doesn't view the fight against Shamrock as a joke. Slice has had little opportunity to show his skills on the ground, but there's no doubt in my mind stand-up is his strength and he'll avoid hitting the mat against Shamrock if at all possible. If he finds a way to submit Shamrock on the ground via any method other than strikes I will gladly write a formal apology in my October 6th PDH. I think these comments are simply an attempt by Slice to sell the bout as being as competitive as possible while also having some fun with Ken Shamrock's camp. If not, someone needs to check his beard for a possible supply of crack cocaine, because the notion of Slice being a better grappler than Shamrock is absolutely ridiculous.

P.S. - Kimbo, he's the "World's Most Dangerous Man", not the "world's deadliest man".


--------------


That's about all she wrote for this week's Hangover. Till next time Punch Drunk buckaroos, here's your "Monday Morning Moment of Zen" - Rachelle, Rachelle! We'll start with some early Rachelle and then progress to something a bit more recent...and brunette. I know Arianny Celeste's lollypop technique got play in my last column, and this edition of the Hangover is heavy of Ms. Leah, so rest assured next week's PDH will feature two men in shorts beating each other senseless!


I promise I'll get back to embedding fights next week...






...okay, maybe the week after that.






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PunchDrunk411@yahoo.com



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Comments (11)

 
Well spoke on the Evan Tanner death. I find it interesting that whenever someone passes away we all become there biggest fan. It is sad. I enjoyed watching the man fight but that was about it. I hope the best for all that was affected by it but I hope everyone will stop prettending to be his biggest fan now that he has passed away.

Posted By: Joe (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 02:01 AM

 
 
I think that Evan Tanner's death may, consciously or not, be felt by many people to be a grim portent of more to come. The UFC seems modelled in many ways on the WWE, already there is talk of exploitation of fighters leading to unhealthy life choices and early deaths.

Posted By: Uncle Slam (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 07:37 AM

 
 
As always, great effort this week Bren. But I got to say, the Training Day reference made my morning. Good work, sir.

Posted By: Jeff (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 09:02 AM

 
 
*waits for Uncle Slam to be shredded by future posters for his ridiculous comment*

Posted By: punchdrunk (Registered)  on September 15, 2008 at 09:13 AM

 
 
attempt to poke fun at the QB's reputation for being soft based on the QBs reputation for being soft. What are you, a broken record?
Uncle Slam is right. There are alreadyshades of WWE all over the UFC, and it is more than likely to continue. The influx of crossover fans will pollute the fanbase, Lesnar's success will set precedent for other fighter antics and personalities. Expect catchphrases to be worked in and accepted within the year, and signs and t-shirts reflecting it to litter the audience. UFC is going casual, enjoy the ride. YOU KNOW!!!


Posted By: Proofread!! (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 10:22 AM

 
 
Uncle Sam,

Where do you get your information- who is bringing up "already there is talk of exploitation of fighters leading to unhealthy life choices and early deaths"?

Who are the "many people" that will feel the "grim portent of whats to come"?

Your arguement is silly and you have nothing to base this off of other then Evan Tanner's weird death (and he was a a weird guy).

The sky is not falling chicken little- UFC is nothing like WWE, fighters do not perform every night and steroid and drug use is policed by the state athletic commissions (and the organization).

Stop watiting for something to happen to say I told you so...you don't know anything about nothing.


Posted By: The Spook (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 10:51 AM

 
 
Ultimately, who cares? Other than his family who should be saddened by his death, who cares? Sure, he entertained us a few times, but did we know him? Did we share holiday greetings or well wishes with him? Would Evan Tanner be on a site like this, lamenting the loss of a fan who did the same thing that killed him? Doubtful. So at the end of the day, everybody dies. Move on.

Posted By: jbgs2 (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 01:30 PM

 
 
Uncle Sam and Proofread;

I’d suggest that both of you need to go back to watching WWE if your only input is to compare the UFC to the WWE. If you truly believe what you said based on one fighter’s death, then you’re both idiots.

“Lesnar’s success will set the precedent for other fighter antics and personalities. Expect catchphrases to be worked in and accepted within the year, and signs and t-shirts reflecting it to litter the audience.” Do you make this stuff up? Have you even been to a live event? This stuff has existed at live events since before Lesnar was even in the sport. T-Shirts have been sold at MMA events since the very beginning and “Fuck ’em Up Chuck” is a sign I have seen at many events. Do a little research next time before you post your ill-informed thoughts.

One last thing; proofread your own posts before you try dumping on one of the writers here. Most of them are way out of your league.


Posted By: Scott Kuczkowski (Registered)  on September 15, 2008 at 04:22 PM

 
 
Wow you are a complete moron. I am a huge MMA fan. I always liked Evan Tanner. But as you described many of us accurately, including myself, a lot of us didn't love him as a fighter. However, when he passed, and I can only speak for myself, I became completely submerged in any literature or video involving him. He was an amazing guy and I think that is what we've all become magnetized by. I have been enthralled by the manner with the way this guy lived his life and shared that with his fans. I truly wish I'd gone out of my way to meet him. If you've researched any of the facts I think you're assessment of his suicidal tendency come to fruition, you'd reassess. He had plenty of water, fuel in his bike (which he'd had problems with since he bought it not a week before, a problem he thought he'd rectified), and he had a gps unit. He went to a natural spring that was dried up. In his sketchy cell call he was probably misunderstood in saying he ran out of water, not the Spring. He tried to double back to camp and didn't make it. Where is the compassion for a man (not a fighter) that showed the same to so many others. Again, I wish I had been as big a fan of his when he was alive, than I've become in his death.

Posted By: Dan (Guest)  on September 15, 2008 at 06:54 PM

 
 
Usually I'm pretty critical, but this week you wrote a fantastic article. I have nothing bad to say about it.

Tanner- I'm glad somebody finally had the balls to say it.

Affliction/GB- Won't work out.

Kopenhaver- Glad to see him gone. Turning down a fight because he has been on TUF and the other guy hasn't is bullshit.

And of course, Rachelle Leah pictures. That's icing on the cake right there.


Posted By: KSti (Registered)  on September 15, 2008 at 07:06 PM

 
 
Dan, try getting your information from somewhere other than Wikipedia.

Posted By: punchdrunk (Registered)  on September 15, 2008 at 08:00 PM

 


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