411MMA Fact or Fiction 10.08.08: Kimbo in a 'Lose-Lose' Situation, Arlovski as Dangerous an Opponent as Fedor has Faced, Gina Carano to be Favored Over Cris

Posted by Bren Oliver on 10.08.2008

Is "Cro Cop" still a legitimate Heavyweight threat? Should Kimbo's loss be taken less seriously due to the circumstances surrounding it? Is Gegard Mousasi the best Middleweight outside of the UFC? Read ahead, as 411Mania MMA columnists Jeremy Lambert and Adam Tool step into this week's FoF cage to duke it out over these topics and more!

Greetings to all and welcome to the newest edition of 411Mania's MMA Fact or Fiction! Whether you're knee-deep in filing TPS Reports at work or giggling at Seth Petruzelli's MySpace page, I appreciate you taking a couple minutes out of your daily grind to peruse this week's column and glance into the minds of a few folks with an opinion or two about the world of Mixed Martial Arts. However, I advise you to not stare. Like the sun, or your the cleavage of your girlfriend's friend, delving too deeply into the inner-monologue of we 411 MMA columnists may be dangerous and could cause blindness.

This week features two FoF veterans whose work can be found every week in our Zone's excellent "News Report" section. We've got the head "Cardio Freak" around these parts, Jeremy Lambert, and someone who is never afraid to take a stance on topics...especially a "Fighting Stance"...Adam Tool. Each has some strong opinions to share in regards to our six savory special ingredients - the topics - so let's not waste time with any more formalities.

Readers...are you ready? Fellow columnists...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. EliteXC and Kimbo Slice were forced into a "lose-lose" situation courtesy of Ken Shamrock's questionable training practices.


Adam Tool: FACT. In regards to Ken's actions, there's nothing I can say that his brother Frank didn't say already on national television. Once the main event was wrecked it left EliteXC with very few options. They could've removed Kimbo from the show, but that would've only angered the fans in attendance as well as those watching at home. The only other option was to find a replacement, and, for whatever reason, Seth Petruzelli was the choice they made. If Kimbo would've won then he would've simply beaten a no-name, part-time fighter. Instead Kimbo took the fight on a few hours notice, and he deserves some recognition for that. He could've easily taken his ball and gone home, but he stuck around to face an opponent he wasn't ready for and took his loss like a man.


Jeremy Lambert: FACT. I really wanted to lean toward "fiction" since Frank Shamrock was willing to step up and fight Kimbo despite a huge weight difference, a broken arm, braces, and no proper training, but there's no way the commission was going to allow Frank to fight. Had they allowed him to fight and EXC still went with Petruzelli, then they could have salvaged the situation as Frank vs. Kimbo still would have been win-win. With what they had to work with though, they had no other choice. Arlovski or Nelson would have been more legit choices but there's no way EXC wanted to give that kind of a rub to Affliction as either one of those men would have murdered Kimbo. Aaron Rosa was probably the smarter choice of Petruzelli and Rosa but neither way EXC was going to win. An essential no name was going to beat their big star or Kimbo was going to beat another guy that looked to be hand picked for him.


SCORE: 1 for 1. Rarely would earning $500,000 for 14 seconds of work be considered a "lose-lose" situation, but it should also be kept in mind that Kimbo likely lost out on quite a bit of future earnings once his mystique took a dive courtesy of Petruzelli's fists.


2. Gina Carano should be favored against Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos when the two eventually step into the cage against each other.


Adam Tool: FACT. I don't see why not. Both have had just seven professional fights but the main difference is that Gina has won all of hers. You could also easily make the case that Gina has had a tougher run of opponents over her career. Cyborg has gotten plenty of attention thanks to her aggressive style and heavy hands, but on Saturday we also got reminded of how good Gina's striking is as well. She also showcased a tremendous sprawl so I fully believe she'll be able to dictate where the fight with Cyborg takes place. I'm anticipating a nice little slugfest when these two collide so of course anything can happen, but at the moment I'd give the edge to Carano.


Jeremy Lambert: FACT. Oh Bren, haven't we been down this road before when it comes to favorites? Gina will be favored, in Vegas, because that's where the money is. She's the bigger star (although Cyborg got the third biggest pop of the night behind Kimbo and Gina on Saturday) and thus Vegas will make her the favorite. I don't think she'll be a huge favorite but Vegas wants the money to come in on Gina, knowing that Cyborg has the best chance of anyone to defeat her. Having seen them both fight live, I'll go on record right now and say that Cyborg looks like she would murder Gina because she hits like a truck, never stops attacking, and can take a hell of a punch.


SCORE: 2 for 2.



3. Kimbo Slice's loss to Seth Petruzelli should not be treated as seriously as it would had Slice been given an appropriate amount of time to prepare for his opponent


Adam Tool: FICTION. Like I said, Kimbo deserves some props for his willingness to fight a completely different opponent on short notice. However I don't think a full training camp to prepare for Petruzelli would've made much difference. We all knew Kimbo would be exposed sooner or later, although I think most of us expected him to get his first loss via submission. Seth Petruzelli showed the world that Kimbo is not as tough as we might think, and if these two fought ten more times I'd be willing to bet Seth would win at least half of those.


Jeremy Lambert: FICTION. Seth Petruzelli had the same amount of time as Kimbo to prepare for the fight. Kimbo's used to fight guys who his entourage would bring home and say, "this guy will fight you for $1,000" and he would throw down right there. He should have been happy he got just over an hours notice for this fight. I'm one of the rare Kimbo fans but when your motto is, "anyone, anywhere, anytime" I expect you to back that up, especially when your opponent has the same amount of prep time as you.


SCORE: 3 for 3. Sorry, but no matter what Kimbo's personal motto is or what his reputation was on the street, there's absolutely no way a professional fighter losing to an individual he's never seen tape on, let alone had two hours to prepare for, should be treated with the same seriousness as dropping a bout to a regularly scheduled opponent. Even in a tournament where a Mixed Martial Artist may not be fully aware of who he'll fight in the final allows for some preparation because all the involved athletes are at least aware of the event's participants before the night begins.


---SWITCH!!!---


4. Andrei Arlovski, who is expected to fight Fedor at the next Affliction event, will be as difficult an opponent as Emelianenko has ever faced.


Jeremy Lambert: FICTION. Arlovski looked very good against Ben Rothwell and had a good second round against Nelson, but I'm not willing to believe that the Arlovski of today is better than Mirko "Cro Cop" or Rodrigo Nogueira in their prime. Fedor faced both of those men and looked dominant in the process. It's going to be Fedor's toughest fight on paper since the "Cro Cop" fight as Arlovski hits hard, mixes up his strikes well, and is quick on his feet, but Fedor stood willingly with Mirko when he was considered the most dangerous striker in the world and stayed in the guard of Nogueira when he was (and still is) considered the best Heavyweight grappler.


Adam Tool: FACT. I'd like to think so. Arlovski is as dangerous as they come in the Heavyweight division, as long as he's motivated to win. Since leaving the UFC we've seen more and more of the old Arlovski coming back and he's a very real threat to Fedor or anybody else that he fights. Of course, plenty of people thought Tim Sylvia could be a tough opponent for Fedor, and we all saw how that went. As long as he's in great shape physically and mentally, I think Arlovski could very well give Emelianenko a run for his rubles.


SCORE: 3 for 4. I have to side with Lambert on this issue. Emelianenko has proven he can strike/grapple with the best, and Arlovski isn't the top Heavyweight dog in either of those areas. He's also shown a fairly weak chin with four of his five losses coming via TKO/KO, and while Fedor may not necessarily be known as a striker, he certainly has the power to separate an opponent from consciousness if he connects. Arlovski lost twice to Sylvia. Emelianenko finished Tim-meh in 36 seconds. Need I say more?


5. Gegard Mousasi is a better fighter than any current UFC Middleweight other than champion Anderson Silva.


Jeremy Lambert: FICTION. Is Paulo Filho considered a UFC Middleweight? If so, there's an obvious answer. If not, I still don't think the UFC Middleweight division is as bad as made out to be and I think Mousasi may even be a bit over hyped right now because of his DREAM Middleweight GP. Don't get me wrong, he's a legit top 10 Middleweight but I think Dan Henderson, Demian Maia, Nate Marquardt, and possibly Michael Bisping (who I'm likely overrating) are just a few guys that would beat Mousasi more times than not if they were to fight 10 times.


Adam Tool: FICTION. While Mousasi's recent domination of the DREAM Middleweight GP was impressive, I'm not quite ready to rank him above guys like Rich Franklin and Dan Henderson. After all, when naming off Mousasi's biggest wins you'd have to say Jacare, Manhoef, Kang, and…who? He's impressive, no doubt, but I'll need to see him face some better competition before anointing him the #2 guy in the world at 185 lbs.


SCORE: 4 for 5. "Likely" overrating Michael Bisping (in regards to his ability to beat Mousasi)? That's like saying I'd "likely" lick Gina Carano's bicycle seat like it was wallpaper in Willy Wonka's factory if given the chance.


6. Regardless of the bout's "No Contest" ruling, Mirko Filipovic's performance against Alistair Overeem showed that "Cro Cop" is no longer a significant Heavyweight threat.


Jeremy Lambert: FACT. Knees to the groin aside, "Cro Cop" was getting beat up in that fight. Overeem wouldn't let him get off on the feet and when the fight hit the ground, Mirko had no answer. I think "Cro Cop" mentally retired after he won the PRIDE Open Weight GP. He said he would retire if he lost and when he won, it just seems like he knew he would never reach that level of achievement again. He didn't look great against a clearly overmatched Eddie Sanchez, he was getting battered by Gonzaga even before his head was kicked off, Kongo didn't allow him to get off, and then he beat a can who should be fighting at Light Heavyweight. He's had countless knee surgeries and the fire just appears to be gone despite the pre-fight talk before the Overeem fight.


Adam Tool: FACT. Even though I'm agreeing with the question, I'd say the loss to Cheick Kongo did more to damage Cro Cop's reputation than the events of DREAM 6. After that fight is when I knew he'd never be the same again. He went back to Japan and started fighting in a ring again, but Overeem gave Cro Cop all he could handle and probably would've won the fight had he chosen to focus his attacks to the upper body rather than trying to perform an illegal sex-change operation right there in the ring. The aura around Mirko is gone completely, and he'll need to start putting together some impressive wins if he wants to feared the same way he once was.


SCORE: 5 for 6. Ooooh...so close to the ever-elusive six for six! Looks like I'll be saving that "his" and "his" towel set for a future "Fact or Fiction"...

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Join us next week when two more participants discuss more fallout from Kimbo Slice's loss to Seth Petruzelli, the UFC 89 line-up, Anderson Silva's alleged impending retirement, and a few other issues lingering out there in the land o' MMA...