411 MMA Fact or Fiction 11.12.08: Lesnar a 'Top 5' Heavyweight with a Win Over Couture, Filho is Finished as a Dominant Fighter, Mike Brown is the #1 Featherweight in MMA, and MORE!

Posted by Bren Oliver on 11.11.2008

Does Randy Couture have to take Brock Lesnar past the second round to score a victory? Does Patrick Cote deserve credit for lasting longer than ten minutes against Anderson Silva? Will Kenny Florian lock up the #1 Contender spot with a win over Joe Stevenson? 411Mania's Adam Tool and NoKaut's Randy Harrison discuss these topics and more in this week's "Fact or Fiction"!

A wise man once said, "All good things come to an end." A man with less brain cells once said, "Puff, puff...give!" Both statements ring true today, as this will be my last Wednesday entry for the foreseeable future, but it certainly won't be the final time your eyes have a chance to feast upon a tasty dish of MMA-related "Fact or Fiction". Taking over "Fact or Fiction" duties will be none other than Zone-staple, and frequent FoF contributor, Jeremy Lambert. I recently came to the realization I wanted to focus more energy on my Monday news report, the Punch Drunk Hangover, as well as finally give legitimate fiction a shot. I have this great idea about the adventures a boy wizard who has a scar on his forehead that's shaped like a lightning bolt. It's hard to say for sure how successful the concept will be, but I think it has some legitimate money-making potential, so we shall see...

However, before riding off into the sunset, there's still one last "Fact or Fiction" to produce! Joining us this week is a familiar face - NoKaut's Randy Harrison. Across the court is my fellow news-reporter, and newfound arch-rival, Adam Tool. Each has some strong opinions to share in regards to this week's six savory special ingredients - the topics - so let's not waste time with any more formalities.

Readers...are you ready? Fellow columnists...are you ready? Then, America, with an enlarged heart and an empty skull, I say unto you the words of my Uncle...for the final time...


ALLEZ FACT OR FICTION!!!!!!!


1. Patrick Cote legitimately deserves credit for making it to the third round against Anderson Silva.


Adam Tool: FICTION. Anderson Silva took this fight to the third round. It's really that simple. The reason nobody else has lasted that long with Silva in the Octagon is because they were unable to withstand his relentless attacks. Silva was not attacking relentlessly against Cote, and has stated that his gameplan was to take the fight into the later rounds. If Cote had absorbed the kind of punishment that Franklin, Henderson, Leben, or Marquardt had taken and made it past round two, then he would deserve some extra credit in my book.


Randy Harrison: FACT. Everyone is hating on Cote for his performance and saying that he was "outclassed" and that Silva was clowning and disrespecting him because he didn't deserve to be in the cage with him. Even Silva himself has said that that's not the situation at all and that he was merely wanting to tire out Cote and get the fight into deep water while avoiding Cote's heavy hands. I don't think that he was winning the fight or that the fight was terribly close to that point, but there were still three rounds left when Cote went down and anything could have happened. He could have very easily survived another round or two and at any time he could have caught Silva with one big punch that rocked him. Cote took some NASTY shots from Silva that probably would have dropped a few other guys, but Cote had an iron chin and hung in there. To say that Cote had NO CHANCE whatsoever and doesn't deserve credit for his performance is silly. To say he doesn't deserve a rematch is more of a diss to him than anything that Silva did in the cage.


SCORE: 0 for 1. Tool said it perfectly. As I saw it, Anderson Silva allowed Patrick Cote to make it as far as he did. When "The Spider" decided to unleash an attack on the French-Canadian, his strikes were precise and left little question about his superior ability in comparison to Cote. The only reason I think Cote has been patting himself on the back for not getting knocked out in the first ten minutes of the fight is to try and sell the public on an eventual rematch between the two Middleweights. Beyond that, I'm fairly certain 99% of the people who live outside of Montreal agree that Patrick did nothing to merit any praise in terms of lasting into the third round.


2. Mike Brown should be considered the top Featherweight in the world after knocking Urijah Faber out.


Adam Tool: FACT. It's not like Brown wasn't already a "Top Ten" Featherweight before his win. He was on a seven-fight win streak before meeting up with Faber, and he scored a big victory over Jeff Curran earlier this year. However, with his win over Faber (and the decisive way that he won) there's no reason not to place Brown atop the list of 145 pound-ers.


Randy Harrison: FICTION. As much as I was impressed with Brown's performance and his record is certainly nothing to sneeze at, I'd like to see him string together at least one or two more wins against top competition in the divison like Leonard Garcia or a rematch against Faber before I was willing to trumpet him as the world's best. If Brown can win another couple of fights like that against tough opponents, he'd lend a lot of credence to the argument and would solidify his case that the win over Faber wasn't some sort of fluke. Even with Faber's dominance there was still some heavy debate when the subject of best Featherweight came up, with Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto getting just as much play as the top 145-pound fighter in the world. One loss doesn't take Faber out of that equation, no matter how devastating and one win doesn't add Brown to that mix, no matter how impressive that win was.


SCORE: 0 for 2. What did Brown do to leapfrog Faber other than take advantage of Urijah's carelessness and land a well-placed shot? "The California Kid" looked good in the clinch and even landed a knee that ultimately put the new champ out of business for a number of months. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I simply can't verbally fellate Mike Brown similar to the way so many people did when Matt Serra knocked out Georges St. Pierre. The only difference between the two situations is that Brown was already ranked at his weightclass when he scored the strike that put the top dog down. I will absolutely reconsider my stance if he beats Faber a second time when the two of them mix it up again, but until that happens he'll remain one of the best Featherweights in MMA - just not the best.



3. Paulo Filho will never again be the same dominant fighter fans saw during his days in PRIDE.


Adam Tool: FACT. In my column last week I stated that it's time for Filho to retire. Since coming to America, Filho has looked bored as hell every time we've seen him. His mental preparation is clearly suspect, and that's not even getting into his physical limitations. Filho isn't exactly a big Middleweight, and if he does follow through on plans to move up to Light Heavyweight I don't see anyway he can compete in the UFC's stacked ranks at 205. The only way I can see him achieving real domination is if he moves down a weight class and joins the Welterweight division. Thiago Alves is roughly the same size as Filho, and while they both have had issues cutting weight, Alves has been able to put together an impressive run in one of the toughest divisions in the world. If Filho is able to get his head straight and rededicate himself to the fight game I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but at this point I don't see it happening.


Randy Harrison: FACT. I don't know what has misfired in Filho's brain, but he just seems like he's falling apart at the seams. As much as I'd like to say that I would love to see him dominate again like he used to, I think that he needs to be away from a cage or training atmosphere for a long, LONG time so that he can get his head straight because I'm seriously worried for his well-being. He looked lost at numerous points during the fight against Chael Sonnen and with the much-publicized depression problems and time in rehab, he's not fit to be in the cage competing. If he's able to get his head clear and get back to solid training, he should be able to get back into form because ability like Filho's doesn't just disappear, but I highly doubt that he's ever going to be as mentally sharp as a fighter again. For me, the biggest thing is that he gets healthy. If he never reaches the level of his PRIDE career, yet can live a happy and healthy life, that will be a win in my eyes and I would be more than satisfied.


SCORE: 1 for 3. A good part of me would lean towards "fact" on this one, but I'm not ready to completely write Filho off. While the Brazilian seems to still be experiencing the effects of the personal problems he dealt with during his extended leave from MMA, he's only 30, and there's no reason he can't clean his life up and get back to squashing his opponents.


---SWITCH!!!---


4. Kenny Florian will become the UFC's #1 Lightweight contender if he beats Joe Stevenson at UFC 91.


Randy Harrison: FACT. Actually, either man winning this fight would probably put them in line for a title shot, but that is especially the case if Florian wins. Since his loss to Sean Sherk at UFC 63, he's put together five straight wins in the division against tough fighters like Din Thomas, Joe Lauzon and Roger Huerta. He's done it in a fashion that has shown him to be head and shoulders above most in the division and if you look at his record at 155 pounds as a whole in the UFC he's 8-1. If he's able to get past Stevenson and looks impressive doing it, I can't see any way that he's not given a shot at BJ Penn in 2009 after Penn is finished with Georges St. Pierre. There's no one else that can point to a resume as strong as Florian's in the past two years and a win over Stevenson would just be the icing on the cake.


Adam Tool: FACT. Although I'm sure most people would tell you that he's already the #1 contender. While I wasn't so sure if he deserved that honor following his win over Huerta, I am convinced that a victory against "Joe Daddy" would place Florian firmly above all other UFC Lightweights currently awaiting a title shot. Florian is currently riding a nice little five-fight win streak and he seems to improve every time we see him in the Octagon. The Lightweight division is in a state of minor chaos right now, what with the champion chasing another belt and all the other potential contenders (Sherk, Griffin, Edgar) having suffered recent defeats. Should Florian get past Stevenson, then he should not be fighting again unless it's for the Lightweight title.


SCORE: 2 for 4. I believe Florian would already be considered the #1 guy if Baby Jay hadn't whined his way into a title-fight against Georges St. Pierre. Stevenson is a very talented Mixed Martial Artist who possesses decent striking, solid wrestling, and extremely slick jiujitsu skills. Beating him on the heels of a victory over Roger Huerta should be more than enough to solidify Florian's spot in an eventual showdown for Penn's 155-pound belt. Another thing working in the Ultimate Fighter Finalist's favor is the fact he doesn't already have a loss to the current UFC Lightweight Champion, creating interest in the match-up, whereas other top contenders like Sean Sherk and Joe Stevenson have both had their shot at "The Prodigy" and were defeated with relative ease.


5. Randy Couture's upcoming fight against Brock Lesnar must make it into at least the third round for "The Natural" to come out victorious.


Randy Harrison: FACT. The only way that Couture is going to win this fight is if he can take it to the judges. I don't see any way that he's going to be able to land a knockout punch on Lesnar, and Couture's submission game isn't anything to write home about. If he's not going to get this fight to the judges, there's a pretty good chance he'll lose, and even if he does take this fight the full twenty-five minutes that's no guarantee that he'll come out on top. Lesnar's cardio is going to be just as strong with his wrestling background and he's likely going to spend a lot of this fight in the top position, just based on size alone. Sure Couture was on top of Sylvia for nearly all of their fight, but Sylvia is nowhere near the wrestler that Lesnar is. If Couture manages to get a takedown, Lesnar will be more than strong enough to sweep, and if he can't, Lesnar's going to put him on his back and pound him. As long as Lesnar can avoid making any "amateur" mistakes like he did against Mir, it's going to be hard for Couture to win. All that being said, Couture 1000% has to keep the fight standing, get it into the deeper waters and likely to the judges, in order to be able to get the win.


Adam Tool: FICTION. If you think Randy is going to win, just how will he achieve that victory? Is he planning to out-wrestle and out-point Lesnar? I think that's what everyone expects, so Couture will be doing just the opposite. Don't be surprised if "The Natural" tries to keep this one standing and work his superior boxing in order to test Lesnar's chin. Couture is a crafty veteran with a ton of tricks up his sleeves (I know he won't be wearing sleeves when they're fighting, but stay with me here) so I'm sure he's formulated the strategy that he thinks will give him the best chance to win. Look for Randy to keep his feet moving and create angles, and if he can work the dirty boxing there's a good chance he could finish this fight with a TKO before the championship rounds.


SCORE: 2 for 5. The key word is "must". We haven't seen how durable Lesnar's chin is yet or how he operates from his back. That being said, I have no reason to believe Couture can't use his experience in MMA to keep things standing or take Brock down, and if he's successful at either endeavor, finishing "The Next Big Thing" before the fight makes it into the later rounds.


6. Brock Lesnar should be ranked a "Top 5" Heavyweight if he beats Couture in dominating fashion.


Randy Harrison: FACT. Hate me if you will, but I would say that Lesnar is just outside of the Top 10 right now, despite only having three fights in his MMA career. His first fight in K-1 Dynamite was nothing short of a mauling. His second fight against Frank Mir saw him nearly pummel Mir's head through the mat of the Octagon before getting caught in a move that many saw as a "rookie mistake". He followed up that strong performance against a former UFC Heavyweight Champion by completely dominating Heath Herring for fifteen minutes. This is a Heath Herring who, while not the same fighter, was once thought of as the second-best Heavyweight fighter in PRIDE behind some guy named Fedor Emelianenko. I've heard people use college football for contrast, suggesting he might not deserve a spot in the Top 5 because if a team outside of the Top 25 upsets a ranked team, they don't automatically assume their spot. However, Lesnar has shown that he has the skills, the size and the raw athletic ability to be a force in this sport. If Lesnar is able to defeat Couture, dominating or not, he deserves to be in the top 5 because of what he's been able to accomplish in such a short period of time as well as the manner in which he's beaten quality opponents with minimal MMA training.


Adam Tool: FACT. Ah, yes. I get another "Fact or Fiction" appearance and another question about fighter rankings. As always I would like to remind you that rankings are purely subjective, so your results may vary. To consider this question let's look at the guys currently ranked atop our 411mania rankings for the Heavyweight division. Fedor is #1 (obviously) and he won't be giving up that spot unless he loses to Arlovski in January. Big Nog has the #2 spot and there's no reason to move him unless he loses to Mir next month. Arlovski is currently sitting at #3, and after three dominant wins this year he deserves to stay put for the time being. We then come to #4, and that would be the man himself, Randy Couture. It doesn't seem fair to rank Randy above Brock should Lesnar emerge victorious, but does a guy with 4 professional fights deserve to be ranked above guys like Barnett, Gonzaga, or Sylvia? (FYI, Werdum was at #6 but don't expect him to stay there) I think a dominant win over Couture would certainly count for something, so should that happen I'd put Brock in at #5 right behind Barnett.


SCORE: 3 for 6. A "Top 10" Heavyweight, yes. "Top 5"? Not so much. As much as I'd love to give him the honor, he needs to win another fight or two before I can consider him one of the elite Heavyweights in MMA. To date, his successes in the ring have come against a nobody who tapped after getting hit once and Heath Herring - an experienced fighter for sure, but one whose orbital bone was broken in the first moments of their fight and who Lesnar was unable to finish. It can be argued that Lesnar was beating Frank Mir in their bout, and I'd agree with that assessment, but he still ended up with the "L" on his record. And, as much as I love "The Natural, he's still 45 and coming off a yearlong hiatus from fighting. Beating Couture will be an impressive feat, but I need to see consistency from Lesnar, as well as how he performs under in-ring pressure, before I'm ready to let him sniff the upper-half of the Heavyweight rankings.

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Join us next week when two more participants discuss...well...who knows. I won't be coming up with the topics...AGAIN, MY THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR THE SUPPORT YOU'VE GIVEN ME!!!