My Take on MMA 11.18.08: Nogueira’s Ultimate Success
Posted by Larry Csonka on 11.18.2008
The PPV buys seem to be in a Lesnar vs. Mir rematch, but this season of the Ultimate Fighter may be changing that school of thought…
In the November 3rd edition of this column I discussed the "UFC Heavyweight Title Fatal Four-Way to Crown the Real Undisputed Champion of the Earth Tournament." Yes it is a silly name, but that is what I refer to the final four situation that the UFC found themselves in. Randy Couture and Brock Lesnar battled last weekend, and as we all know Brock Lesnar is now the "UFC Heavyweight Champion" after defeating Randy Couture via round two TKO. I use quotations because while Brock holds the heavyweight title, we all know there is dispute because Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira is recognized as the Interim Heavyweight Champion. I brought this up in the November 3rd column for a reason, I had this to say then:
"…when I think about it, the best result as far as a PPV buy rate goes is for Lesnar and Mir to win their fights. I say this because Lesnar is hot on PPV, and a win over Couture would be HUGE as well as play into his "trial by fire" start to his career. Everyone knows that he lost to Mir, and if they were to both win their matches, I think that the rematch would do MANY BUYS. It may not make the diehard MMA fans that happy, since they seem dead set on Couture vs. Nogueira, but we don't always get what we want."
So here we are, Brock Lesnar has won and people are not happy. There are traditional MMA fans that think he has tainted the sport, and the "wrestling fans" now have a hard on to create some war with the UFC. I don't care about that, I really don't. Brock won, Randy was classy in defeat and Dana White is laughing to the bank. Now I am sure most of you think that I am here to hype the Lesnar vs. Mir rematch. Truth be told I STILL think that a Lesnar vs. Mir II match will end up doing the most buys, but I also think that a Lesnar vs. Nogueira has a much better chance to succeed financially than I used too. Why is that? It is because of this season's edition of the Ultimate Fighter.
I am going to make a statement that is going to piss off a lot of people here: Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira may be one of the greatest MMA fighters ever, but he doesn't mean JACK SHIT to the American PPV audience. Now before the venom flows, hear me out. Nogueira's success has mainly been in PRIDE, much like FEDOR. FEDOR didn't mean shit to US PPV when BODOG put him on PPV as they drew TNA like numbers, right around 30,000-35,000. Sure the Affliction PPV has been said to do 100,000 buys, but that card had more star power than the BODOG card and in the end, Affliction still lost a lot of money. When Nogueira came to the UFC hardcore MMA fans were very happy and talked about one of the best coming to the UFC. But outside of that hardcore fan base, no one really cared. His debut against Herring was less than impressive as he got rocked and almost lost early on. But in typical Nogueira style he came back and won the match. Most figured he would battle Couture, but when he left he then beat Big Tim for the Interim title, which most expected, but he was still "that Brazilian guy everyone says is good." There was no reason to care about him.
And I think that is changing…
Frank Mir resurrected his career with a victory over Brock Lesnar, and was not only granted a title shot against Nogueira but they were set to be coaches for the next season of the Ultimate Fighter. While there are times that I hate the show for holding a title hostage, I was in full support of this move. The UFC Heavyweight Division was sketchy to say the least. This would not only give the company a chance to hype a title match, but also to restructure the division. Also this was the first time that the company had a real chance to introduce Nogueira to the fan base.
And that's where I think the true success of this season will be…
I know that a lot of people, die hard MMA fans even aren't watching this season of the show. I do, on fast-forward because I have seen the pranks, house trashing, getting drunk, eating piss covered fruit and so on and so forth. I like watching the training and fights. Now I will say I really do not know who will win, nor do I care. For the most part none of them have done a lotto make me care. And for the purposes off what I am trying to say here, they can all be failures because this season will STILL be a success in spite of that possible failure.
And that is because Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira has been introduced to the world…
As I mentioned, while Nogueira was the interim champion, Joe Casual MMA Fan didn't know who he was, what he was about and really had NO reason to pay to see this man. But I now feel that this has been changed, and it has been changed because of this season of the Ultimate Fighter. As I have mentioned I have been paying attention to the show this season, as always, but with less motivation to do so. But there is one thing that had caught my attention, and that is Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira. I have got to see another side of the man, and I have fallen in love with him in a totally hetero way. I think it all connected as I watched the latest episode from November 12th. Before this I have seen him be the perfect coach as he is always willing to help. He hangs out with HIS guys because they are HIS guys. he eats with them, trains with them and as you watch the show you can really tell that he CARES about HIS guys.
But the November 12th episode made it all click to me.
They did the traditional "Coach's Challenge," where the coach was guaranteed $10,000 for a win, AND $1,000 for each of his guys. Now Nogueira is only human and I am sure the idea of $10,000 made him all warm an fuzzy inside. But when I watched this I had this feeling that it was more important for him to win for HIS guys so that THEY would get paid. As I watch the show Nogueira is coming off as the traditional "baby face" character. He is the champion, he works hard, he trains hard, and he takes time to coach HIS guys and feels the pains of their losses. Conversely Mir came off as the typical high school douche bag jock. He felt it was all fixed, he discussed that he was 100-times the athlete of Nogueira, HE wanted to win the money. Frank Mir is officially the heel, he is an asshole that thinks way too much of himself. We have a reason to hate him, but more importantly a reason to love Nogueira.
When it all comes down to competition whether scripted or real, you still have to SELL the event. There is no easier way to sell an event than to create a person you can get behind and a person you can hate. The face and the heel, the black hat and white hat, it is as old as time. The battle is about the dragon and the dragon slayer, and we all want to see the beast lose so that the slayer can win and be out hero. While the MONEY may still be in the Lesnar vs. Mir rematch, I believe that Nogueira has completely changed his perception among the casual MMA fan. We knew he was great, but now he is likeable, we know him, we know what he is about and that is why I think this season of the Ultimate Fighter will be the Ultimate Success no matter what.
Good column it pretty much summed up how i felt about Nog.
Posted By: peterparkerspyderman (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 02:51 AM
I must concur 100% with your view of Nogueira. Before TUF8, we all knew he was a great fighter but that's about it.
He has a "grand master" air about him, yet is also grounded. It's been very interesting seeing him as a coach, and even though I'd love Lesnar vs. Mir II, I'll be rooting for Big Nog at the finale.
Posted By: Anon (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 02:59 AM
haha gotta love how most of you are all of a sudden "falling in love" and "rooting" for Big Nog the same way people did for FEDOR after his murder of one Tim Sylvia.....
Why can't american mma fans just watch old Pride DVD and tapes to get a better knowledge of the sport and it's history ?
I'm still amazed when I'm hearing that almost nobody in the US knows who Josh Barnett or Big Nog are .
BTW I bet you an awful LOT of people will jump on his bandwagon when he will make Lesnar's his own bitch and will mount a come back of this on his way to another innovative and amazing sub victory against The Pain .
Lesnar vs Big Nog will be EPIC that's for sure .
As for Mir, if not for Magazatti, he would be a gatekeeper in the division and fighting the likes of Cheik Kongo .
BIG NOG via SUB Next DECEMBER
Posted By: WarSaku (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 03:43 AM
For the most part, not all but alot, that just how Brazil trains. I love just sitting in on Brazilian gyms. Its just very family oriented. You walk in and it like going to a reunion or somthing. I'm american and love it but I have to say I always root for brazil. They will dirty fight you on the street but are great guys for the most part. From ceasar royce hellsing. To Anderson, Nog, and others its just weird maybe a culture difference I dont know. The mark of true masters I guess. Randy can be the same way too.
Posted By: Guest#7333 (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 04:54 AM
I have pretty much always felt that way about Nog. His fights with Sapp, Crocop, and especially his first loss to Fedor showed so much heart and he would not stop trying to win no matter how much he got hurt. I reccomend that any newer Nogueria fans make sure to watch these fights.
Posted By: Vic (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 09:36 AM
"Why can't american mma fans just watch old Pride DVD and tapes to get a better knowledge of the sport and it's history ?"
As a relatively short term casual fan of MMA (under 2 years)I fall right into the group that Larry is talking about. I started watching events on Free TV just to see what it was all about and kept up with it a bit. As lifelong pro wrestling fan I got much more engaged when Lesnar came into MMA. Now I watch TUF, I have watched the last 3 PPV's and read up on things on this very site. I had no idea who Noguiera was prior to TUF, I watched it because I wanted to see more of Frank Mir and now I am much more interested in Noguiera becasue Mir is a dick. Frankly I don't care enough to go back and watch Pride tapes to get to know him. As a casual fan, if I need to go do research to understand the sport and it's participants then the UFC and other promoters will always fail to break through as a major sport. Even though there are long term fans that don't want it to become mainstream, I am quite certain that the promoters do. I don't need to go back and watch Superbowl one to appreciate Superbowl 43. If MMA is to continue it's growth from a niche player to the big leagues then it needs to be just that easy for someone to feel the excitement of an event without knowing the history
Posted By: mstrong73 (Registered) on November 18, 2008 at 11:41 AM
I don't need to go back and watch Superbowl one to appreciate Superbowl 43.
Very well said. As die hard as some of us may be in our respective interests, not everyone wants to have to do research to get into something.
In this case, what's not to stop UFC from showing some of those fights? They own the library, don't they? Make a hype video. 2 minutes of highlights with a guy translating Nogueria's thoughts would do wonders. Unless it's a guy they don't own footage for, or is coming from a background of local level shows, then UFC and other promoters should feel obligated to provide "getting to know you" packages.
Posted By: pd (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 01:31 PM
Awesome article! Big Nog is a scary looking guy with an awesome heart! They are doing a really good job on TUFF at showing that.
They are also showing that Mir is a douche. He is worse than Shamrock. Hes too busy trying to look cool and not spending time with the guys that need his help to get to the next level.
It is truly his fault if any of these guys miss out.
Posted By: Clarkie (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 01:38 PM
Another reason why Nogueira is the best part of this season of TUF: Stankie
He & Nogueira should get their own spinoff show on Spike TV.
Posted By: Ryan Mancuso (Registered) on November 18, 2008 at 01:47 PM
Thanks for the kind words on the article. And Ryan, you are VERY correct, "Stankie" rules!
Posted By: Larry Csonka (Registered) on November 18, 2008 at 01:50 PM
Fantastic article Larry.. Actually i'm not sure if you read it, but Lance Storm said the exact same thing on his website, in a commentary called "UFC".. It's an interesting read.
And on a totally unrelated note, am i the only one who found it funny when before the soccer match, Mir was saying he's 10 times the athlete that Nogueira is.. And then you see Mir bearly moving while Nogueira is diving all over the place like he was Gigi Buffon?
Posted By: Samer (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 05:33 PM
when i was in high school, us jocks weren't typically douchebags...i hate the way you nerdy ass geeks treat us, you're all grown up and married larry, sorry you didn't make the team....get over it.
Posted By: romano (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 05:35 PM
he's another bit of the Minatauro's life rhat is amazing. At the age of 9, he was hit by a truck! Not a SUV truck, a big ass truck. He broke both his legs, ruptured his spleen and also so had serious damagedone 2 his spine. he was in a coma for 25 days. His doctors told his parents he would "never walk again". Amazing recovering from that and becoming what he is 2day. He doesnt talk about it at all. Crazy!
Posted By: wolf137 (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 06:02 PM
Nice article! And kudos to Samer-Mir is obviously not the superior athlete. I have NO doubt that Nog will take care of Mir and Mir will go back to being a bitter gatekeeper once again. Oh, and about why everybody doesn't just watch old Pride stuff with Nog in it, well, some people have a life and watvh mma just for what it's meant to be for those who don't compete: entertainment. I'm not gonna go watch Lebron James high school footage to figure out why he had so much hype coming into the NBA, so I don't expect everyone to watch Nog's old fights either. The UFC should run some quick video footage of him from the old days to help hype the fight though on the TV spots.
Posted By: guest guest (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 07:28 PM
"he's another bit of the Minatauro's life rhat is amazing. At the age of 9, he was hit by a truck! Not a SUV truck, a big ass truck. He broke both his legs, ruptured his spleen and also so had serious damagedone 2 his spine. he was in a coma for 25 days. His doctors told his parents he would "never walk again". Amazing recovering from that and becoming what he is 2day. He doesnt talk about it at all. Crazy! "
He came back and won by armbaring the truck..
Posted By: Samer (Guest) on November 18, 2008 at 09:43 PM
