411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 11.03.09: Mosley-Berto, The Camachos, Paul Williams, More

Posted by Ramon Aranda on 11.03.2009

Will Shane Mosley be too much for Andre Berto to handle if they fight in January? Would Camacho Sr. beat Camacho Jr.? Will Paul Williams get a tougher fight against Sergio Martinez? Is Nonito Donaire the next Filipino star? 411’s Jonathan Yaghoubi and Raymundo Dioses debate these topics and more in this week's edition of 411 Boxing Fact or Fiction!



Time to get it on as Jonathan Yaghoubi of Big Apple Boxing Thoughts faces off against Raymundo Dioses of Ringside with Raymundo this week. Will it be a battle of wits or do these two see eye to eye?

Let's find out!


Round 1: Shane Mosley will be too much for Andre Berto to handle if they fight in January.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - Mosley is on a real high right now and is ready to destroy anyone that is put in front of him. His last fight was probably the greatest performance of his career when he murdered Antonio Margarito to become the welterweight champion. He was a big underdog in the fight and no one gave him a chance to win that fight. Not only did he win, but he looks to be as good as ever. He challenges Floyd Mayweather WWE and that's something you don't do unless you are really confident.

That being said, I do think Mosley will be too much for Berto. I think Andre will make a big mistake if he takes a fight with Mosley. He barely won a fight that I thought he lost against Collazo.

Both guys are known for constantly applying pressure on their opponents. I think Berto does that against Mosley, I feel he will get knocked out. Berto's biggest tests are not in the same league as Mosley's past foes. However, the champ will be fighting another opponent: ring rust. You combine with his age and this could be the fight that it catches up with Sugar Shane. If Shane wants the Mayweather fight real bad, he needs to dispatch the younger Berto and look good.

Raymundo Dioses: FACT - Shane Mosley will steam roll Berto and make him look like an amateur after Berto's game-plan is torn to shreds, yet it could be a positive learning lesson for Berto and not one he should shy from. Just because a fighter might be better than you, and you might lose, doesn't mean you should not fight. Sometimes a fighter could learn more from a loss than he could with a win. Fighter's love getting cracks at legends, and is really one of their dreams as they are coming up in the ranks. The delay in signing the fight may be coming from promoter Lou DiBella, who doesn't want to make a habit out of his fighters losing fights. DiBella is one of the best, yet lately his fighters haven't fared so well. (Malignaggi, Taylor, Cintron) Yet Berto can learn more from fighting Mosley than he can be stringing out what is a default title run in the first place, as Berto attained the WBC welterweight title only after Floyd Mayweather retired in June of last year.

Berto should take his shot, and if he loses than keep going in the ranking system and win the title by beating the champion. Berto is still young and could still fight for at least another 7 to 10 years. From the other end of the spectrum, if Berto could actually pull out a W against Mosley, he could solidify his title run and show the world why he deserves to be the WBC champion. If Berto and Co. looked at this fight correctly, it could be viewed as a win/win for Berto.

Score: 1 for 1 - So what you're saying is that Shane is too sweet for Berto?

Round 2: Nonito Donaire will be the next major Filipino star.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT I think he is already the next major Filipino star. I really doubt he could ever reach the star status in his home country the way Pacquiao has. But then again, who can match that? Manny Pacquiao is a god in the Philippines and I find it hard to see Donaire reaching that status. But he certainly is on his way to becoming the next big thing. He's already been a star in my book for the last two years. Who can forget back in July 2007, when Donaire won the IBF flyweight title with a 5th round knockout of the then-undefeated Vic Darchinyan? It was huge upset that no one saw coming and even Ring Magazine called it "Upset of the Year".

Trying to prove that was no fluke, Donaire has now won four straight title defenses that include three TKO's and UD win in his last bout over Rafael Concepcion. He is certainly a "star" and is now considered one of the top 10 best pound for pound fighters in the world.

Raymundo Dioses: FACT - If the right matchmaking is made with his next few fights, Donaire could indeed be groomed into the next Philipino icon. Yet to do so I believe he needs to clean out his division and make his ascension into the heavier divisions, as the bigger names and the bigger, more meaningful fights are in the higher weights. It's a big thing to ask a boxer to make a step upward, yet a lot of the legends in the recent past have started out at 120 or 130 and end up somewhere in the 130's, 140's or higher. Such was the case with Pacquiao, whom Donaire seeks to emulate.

Score: 2 for 2 - The Filipino Flash gets some love!

Round 3: Oscar De La Hoya will at some point over the next two years return to fight one more time.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I think we have seen the last of Oscar De La Hoya. The beating that Pacquiao gave him was one of the most vicious beatings you will ever see in a boxing ring. That night, you can see in Oscar's eyes that he had NOTHING else to offer in the boxing ring. He did something he never thought he would do and that is quit on the stool. Why would De La Hoya ever return to the ring after that performance? When he retired, I think he was very sincere and honest in his commitment to his retirement. There is nothing else for him to prove and would only risk his health if he ever stepped back in the ring. Oscar is doing his thing as a promoter and I really hope he stays there.

Raymundo Dioses: FACT - As I pointed out in my column last week, the hardest athlete in sports to convince into retirement is a boxer. It is the hardest sport to walk away from, and a boxer always thinks he still has a punchers chance at glory, even if for one last fight. It may be demeaning to the recently retired fighter to cope with the fact that his last fight was a loss, as was De La Hoya's. I believe DLH may not think his loss was devastating enough to attempt one more bid, and the camera and interview savvy' of De La Hoya could talk his way into one last fight. The welterweight picture is white hot with talent and storylines, and will continue to progress in 2010. it may be too much for De La Hoya to resist, as he may see his last fight as not definitive enough of a loss.

Score: 2 for 3 - Anyone else think Oscar won't stay away??

And now, the CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS!

Round 4: Should Paul Williams face Sergio Martinez - the fight will be much tougher for PW than expected.

Raymundo Dioses: FACT - The first thing I would like to address is that I find Kelly Pavlik to be a better boxer than Sergio Martinez. That said, the circumstances that be will lead Martinez to be a tougher opponent for Williams for the following reason. Pavlik is coming off this staff infection in his hand, which could have led to a ‘trigger shy' Pavlik come fight night against Williams, seeking not to further injure his hand and pulling back from having a 100% showing offensively. Also, a fighter's psyche is at risk, especially with a hand injury and especially because Pavlik was so exposed by Hopkins in his last fight. Granted, he faced Hopkins, yet still, he was exposed and shown that he is beatable, and trust and believe any future opponent of Pavlik's will look back at the video of that fight and try to paint the same picture.

As for Sergio Martinez, he won't simply be a better fight because Pavlik is injured physically and emotionally; Martinez has flown under the middleweight radar for years due to simply fighting a majority of his fights in Spain and his native Argentina. Martinez is a vastly gifted fighter who can throw from all angles and has the stamina to go a full 12. Martinez also has one punch knockout power, and has a few 1st round KO's under his belt. His lone defeat was to a prime Antonio Margarito, yet ever since he's attained Latin title belts and is fresh off his robbery of a win over Kermit Cintron, in where the referee incorrectly called his knockdown a non-knockdown, which resulted in a draw. Martinez is a very stiff opponent for any middleweight, and as a later replacement for Kelly Pavlik, will give Paul Williams his stiffest test yet in the 160 pound division.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - I agree with Raymundo that Pavlik is the better boxer than Martinez. But Martinez is no slouch and Williams has been preparing for Pavlik for months. It can't be a great thing that Paul gets a change in opponent 4 weeks in advance - very, very tricky situation for the Punisher. If you go on talent and skills alone, Williams is the better fighter over Sergio. However, I am not sure if PW will be motivated and train as hard. He really wanted to fight Pavlik as Kelly is the bigger star than Martinez. Also with fighters, if they don't have to make weight, then they sometimes don't train as hard for a fight. We all know what happened last time PW didn't train right for a fight (Quintana). Martinez is a lefty like Quintana and if he uses his blueprint, he might have a chance to KO Williams. Either way for Paul, it's going to be a tough fight but I think he is good enough to pull out the win.

Score: 3 for 4

Round 5: Camacho Jr. vs. Camacho Sr.....Senior would win.

Raymundo Dioses: FACT - This fight should never, ever, EVER happen, yet if it did, I could see Sr. walking away with the W. Experience beats youth time and time again, and in this case, experience would trump Jr. Yet an actual fight between the two would do neither fighter any good, and could lead to family discrepancies down the line. If Camacho Jr. is serious in making a strong title bid in 2010, he needs to face Fernando Vargas for the ‘what names have you beat' recognition, and then seek out the best possible fights out there.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - We could not think of a better question? Maybe Pacquiao's training affecting him? I really don't care enough to answer this. I guess I would say Macho Sr. but who gives a crap? Why would father and son ever fight each other? If you want to do a fantasy matchup with Camacho Sr. in his prime, I still take him.

Score: 4 for 5

Round 6: You like Juan Manuel Lopez over Yuriorkis Gamboa if they meet in 2010.

Raymundo Dioses: FICTION - This fight WILL happen, as Top Rank boss Bob Arum has the wheels in motion for a summer bout between the two a the Madison Square Garden in New York. Juan Manual Lopez would be the easy pick in this fight, being as though he could be perceived as the more ‘technically sound' and more overall gifted fighter than Gamboa, and Gamboa could be seen as the ‘wild card' due to his less technical and more ‘brawler' type nature. One needs only to look at the Vernon Forrest/Ricardo Mayorga bouts to see that a brawler can indeed best a boxer. I like Gamboa to do just this, as Lopez may opt to box, and Gamboa may look for a money punch, and be aggressive in the process of pursuing a knockout. Under the right pressure given by Gamboa, Lopez will fold and Gamboa can call himself Mayorga Jr afterward.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - Not after what I saw a few weeks back when they fought on the Latin Fury card. While Gamboa looked very impressive in his fight, Lopez was in a life and death battle with the unknown Rogers Mtagwa. Lopez was seconds of being knocked out by Mtagwa and was out on his feet. He tried to brawl with Mtagwa and it almost ruined his fight future. Lopez survived and kept the Gamboa-Lopez future fight alive. But if they fought tomorrow, I think will Gamboa will come out on top. I might even go as far to say that Gamboa is capable of knocking Lopez's block off or dominating decision win over him. Lopez's defense against Mtagwa was bad to awful. Gamboa's balance of speed and power is just amazing right now. He does have the suspect chin and Lopez is capable of knocking Gamboa out as well. Gamboa does not have the best chin in the world but Lopez may never catch him. I gotta go with Gamboa as of today.

Final Score: 5 for 6

But what we really want to know is what YOU, the readers think. How do you feel? Is it Fact... or Fiction?