411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 12.15.09: Pavlik-Espino, Williams-Martinez 2, Timothy Bradley, More

Posted by Joe Roche on 12.15.2009

This week Ryan Bates returns to avenge his loss from last week as Joe Roche hosts another episode of Fact or Fiction with newcomer Jonathan Yaghoubi.

1. You feel Timothy Bradley is the best 140 pounder in the world.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fact- After last night's performance against Peterson, Bradley has cemented himself as the best 140 pounder in the world. He totally outclassed and dominated a pretty solid opponent in Lamont Peterson. Despite Peterson's valiant performance, Bradley was just too good for Lamont and has now taken a big step up in his career as he will now be seen as a force to be reckon with at 140 pounds. He looked like he has gotten better and better since his performance against Nate Campbell. It's like Bradley was continuing from that fight and brought into last night's fight. He is now 25-0 and with Manny Pacquiao no longer in the 140 pound division, Timothy Bradley now has the bullseye on his back. In the last 2 years Bradley has fought Witter, Cherry, Holt, Campbell, Peterson. He was won all the fights except for that wacky NC agasint Campbell. A win against Amir Khan could propel Bradley in the top 10 pound for pound boxers in the world.

Ryan Bates: FACT. Looking at the ratings list from Ring magazine (for 12/6), directly underneath Bradley are Amir Khan, Ricky Hatton, Devon Alexander, Juan Diaz, and Paulie Malignaggi. Does Tim Bradley beat all of them? Yes, definitely, absolutely, convincingly, and yes as long as he doesn't get outboxed. The only person at 140 who would have the favorite's advantage over Bradley right now is Manny Pacquiao, who unlike Yags, I think could still have fights at 140 if he wished (although admittedly the money is at 147). Manny has shown incredible versatility in weight, so ruling him out of 140 is not possible. But aside from the unworldly greatness of Pacquiao, Bradley is top of the food chain at junior welter, hands down.

Scorecard: The opening round is very tight with both guys making good points, and Jonathan jumping out to the advantage of having the question first. However, I tend to think that Pacquiao is very capable of going back down to 140 and I believe that because Pac-Man is still around Timothy Bradley can only be the 1(a) fighter at 140 pounds. 1-0 Ryan



2. Juan Diaz and Paulie Malignaggi should fight a third time.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fiction- Paulie Malignaggi's victory pretty much squashed any thoughts of a third match between the two. First of all , Paulie should have gotten the win in their first fight as he totally outboxed Diaz.. Last night, Paulie pretty much showed the same skills from the first fight. Diaz did not do anything to adjust from the first fight. Throw in the fact that he got some pretty awful advice from his trainer Ronnie Shields who told him to take a round off in a fight he was clearly losing. He looked lethargic and like an old 26 years old when he was trying to chase Paulie all over the ring. While there was some pretty exciting moments in the fight, there is just no need for a third fight. Everyone knows Paulie is the better fighter at 140 pounds and unlike after the first fight, there is no outcry for another fight.At this point, I don't see HBO Buying a third fight or either guy wanting to see each other again right now, especially since it wouldn't be for big money.

Ryan Bates: Fiction: Like I said in the last "Fact or Fiction," a rematch in Funeka/Guzman would make sense because even though everyone saw Funeka won, there should be an opportunity for him to legally have on paper a win over Guzman, which he deserves. Malignaggi was in the same situation, got the rematch, and won even more convincingly. So even though he's 1-1 now on paper, everyone knows he should be 2-0. What's the point in a rematch?

Scorecard: Unlike the first round where I gave Ryan the nod this time he just piggybacked on JOnathan's answer and that loses some points in my eyes. Jonathan brings up a great point that Diaz looked very lethargic on Saturday night, and that makes two poor performances in a row this year after his Fight of the Year candidate against Juan Manuel Marquez. It might be time to start asking if that Marquez fight took something out of Diaz. 1-1 Tie



3. Sergio Martinez deserves a rematch with Paul Williams.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fact - Now this is a fight that is screaming for a rematch. I was privileged enough to be in Atlantic City for their fight last Saturday night and it is most certainly one of the top fights of the year. These are two world class fighters that were fighting at the highest level possible and reminded us of the good old days of Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard. It was a sensational fight. Although Martinez dropped a majority decision that easily could have gone his way, he showed that he is one of the best fighters in the world. It's already hard enough for Paul Williams to find someone that will actually step into the ring with him so why not do it again with Martinez? Unless Williams gets to fight Pavlik in 2010, there is no reason that he should not fight Martinez again. While the fans would love to see the fight, does Paul Williams really want to go through another war again? Probably not but you know Martinez is all in. Let's do it again!!

Ryan Bates: FICTION. Oh, man, I didn't want to do this, but I'm going to have to play the "semantics" card. Was Williams/Martinez a late candidate for Fight of the Year? Yes. Were some of the hardest body shots I've seen thrown all year thrown in that fight? Yes. Did both men's stock rise? Yup. Will anyone climb in the ring with these two guys? Probably not. Would I want to see them go at it again? You bet!Does Sergio Martinez deserve a rematch? No. He can ask for one, and if he gets one, I'll be excited. I'll still pick PW though. Paul Williams, despite an asinine scorecard at the end, won the fight in my eyes and in the eyes of the people who were watching it with me. So no, he doesn't deserve a rematch, but I think it would be unfortunate if they didn't give him one anyway.

Scorecard: Oh Mr. Bates you are a sneaky fella -- lucky for you my lawyer instincts LOVED your literal interpretation of my question and for that there is no doubt that you get the point. I also agree with both of you -- I think the most logical fight for both men is against one another, though I'm not sure Paul Williams wants to see Sergio Martinez again. 2-1 Ryan



AND NOW THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS

4. Regardless of the outcome you were impressed that Kevin Johnson lasted a full 12 rounds with Vitali Klitschko.

Ryan Bates: FACT, in the same sense that I'm impressed the St. Louis Rams still play football. I'm always impressed that the commissioner of the NFL doesn't run in to a Rams game and enact some long-forgotten "mercy rule." I'm mildly (like, Taco Bell Mild Sauce mild) impressed that by the end of twelve Klitschko rounds Johnson was still on his feet. I'm also impressed that I didn't climb through the TV screen and knocked the smirk off of his face myself when he tried to showboat. Kevin, for future reference, the showboating is saved for when you're WINNING a fight.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fiction: Haha Ryan. I must say the Rams have been the biggest joke of the NFL season so far. On the boxing side of things, there was nothing impressive about Johnson's performance against Vitali Klitschko. That could have been the most boring twelve round fight I have ever seen in my life. Instead of being pumped and trying to win the biggest fight of your career, Johnson elects to just try to survive. He threw only 300 punches and 50 jabs the entire fight!! How can you win a World Heavyweight championship when you only throw not land 300 plus punchues the whole 12 rounds?!?! And what was up with the smiling and the taunting? He laughed at Vitali during the entire fight and even kissed his glove saying " Here it Comes!" But it never came as did Johnson's will to win the fight. If you are not going to fight back and stay on the ropes the whole time, there is nothing impressive about it. Johnsons does not deserve another shot any title as far as I am concerned.

Scorecard: I tend to agree with Ryan here, while showboating while losing isn't impressive, Kevin Johnson put together 1/2 of a perfect game plan against Vitali Klitschko. Frankly if Johnson had more seasoning, and was better prepared to actually fight (shocking I know) he might have had a chance in there. It was obviously once he realized he couldn't hurt Dr. Ironfist Johnson packed it in and Sultan Ibragimov'd the fight trying to hear the final bell, even though it made a terrible fight. And like Sultan before him I bet we don't see Kevin Johnson in the ring with a Klitscko for a long time. 3-1 Ryan

5. You're looking forward to Pavlik - Espino this weekend.

Ryan Bates: FACT! Absolutely! It's about time! The middleweight champion has been accused for so long of ducking other people and being scared to take fights, there have been rumors of this staph infection being faked... but NOW he's going up against a tall, lanky southpaw who throws about a hundred punches each rou – Oh, wait, no. I was thinking of Kelly Pavlik vs. Paul Williams! Sorry, my bad. Who did you say?... Miguel Espino??? Pfft. FICTION. The only reason to see this card is you might be able to catch a fight from prospect Omar Henry.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fiction: Bates is certainly doing his best comedy routine today. I have no desire to watch this fight. You think I am going to waste a Saturday night watching this garbage? Kelly Pavlik has lost so much appeal to me in the last year that taking this fight actually hurts him. Miguel Espino?? Who?? Pavlik has had a 2009 to forget and I just hope that with a win here, he can finally take the fight with Paul Williams which would get Kelly's career back to being interesting.

Scorecard: Tough break for both combatants here because this round is being scored a draw. Both of you went Fiction when the actual response was FACT. Sure it's a disappointing fight, and sure it should be a walk in the park but Kelly Pavlik has spent the better part of 2009 telling us that he almost died due to a staph infection. This fight with Espino is very interesting to see if Pavlik has been playing us like fools all year, or if his illness has actually been as serious as he has led on. 3-1-1 Ryan



6. You believe that 2009 will go down as the best year in boxing this decade.

Ryan Bates: Wow, it's hard to compare with other years, but I'm going to have to say
FACT. We had mega-fights that delivered (usually), the number of pay-per-views were lower this year, good fights were made, great fights were made, effort was made to bring the fan back to the sport. Significant effort. It's only the beginning, but it sets a good standard of effort for 2010.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: Fact- This is very hard to say but the more I think about it, this might have been the best boxing year of the decade. This year might had the lowest amount of PPV fights that I can remember. This is certainly a huge step up from boxing as opposed to like 10 years ago when they would charge 40-50 bucks for every fight out there. The return of Floyd Mayweather was certainly fun to watch as his fight with Marquez had over 1 million buys. The two short months later, The Pacquiao-Cotto fight topped the Mayweather fight in terms of PPV buys and was certainly one of the biggest fights of the decade. There were a lot of great fights that were shown on HBO and Showtime this year and just hope they continue show some great quality fights on free tv. The only negative of the year was how bad judges scoring was in certain fights. The scoring in the Diaz-Malignaggi, Williams-Martinez, and Funeka-Guzman made this the worst year of judging ever. But it does not take away how great the boxing action was for 2009 and it will only get better with Pacquiao-Mayweather. Bring on 2010!

Scorecard: Once again you two agree which makes this a terribly boring episode of Fact or Fiction but so that his feelings don't get hurt I'm giving this round to Jonathan for depth of his answer.As we wrap up another edition of Fact or Fiction Ryan Bates rebounds from a difficult loss last week to P.J. Cassidy to upend Jonathan Yaghoubi by a final score of 3-2-1. It was a day that saw both guys basically agreed on everything so it's obvious that these two writers have a lot in common -- I expect to see them exchanging SUPER POKES on facebook before Thursday. Stay tuned for next week folks because Ramon will be back (and there was much rejoicing).


- In honor of Ryan's win here's Floyd Mayweather Jr.