411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 02.02.10: Donaire Jr., Manfredo Jr., Mayweather Jr., And More

Posted by Ryan Bates on 02.02.2010

Will Floyd Mayweather Jr. find a way to weasel out of this fight with Shane Mosley? Could Chris John defeat either Juan Manuel Lopez or Yuriorkis Gamboa for their belts? Is Brian Viloria moving up in weight a good idea? 411’s Joe Roche and Ramon Aranda debate these topics and more in the latest edition of 411 Boxing: Fact or Fiction!

It's time for another battle between two of 411 Boxing's finest as we dive into another "Fact or Fiction!"



This time around, Ramon Aranda steps out from the boss's desk and actually does something. Joe Roche is out to put him in his place. This is Ramon's first rumble of the new year; Joe is 1-0 right now. I'm running the show tonight, so let's get it on!

1. Brian Viloria has stated that he might be looking into moving up in weight. That's not such a bad idea.



Ramon Aranda - FACT: It's not a bad idea if the weight class he's considering is Flyweight. There aren't any monsters at that weight and really what's coming in an extra pound or two heavier going to do for him negatively? He's fought as high as 115.5, which was much too heavy for him and it showed but the 112-pound division might not be so bad. Looking over his career, he's had some of his better performances at flyweight so I'd be interested to see if he can get back on track in a new weight class. However, if he's thinking of moving up to junior bantamweight, he might want to think twice.

Joe Roche – FICTION: Let me start by saying that I'm glad to hear that Brian Viloria is doing well and recovering from a very scary moment on the 23rd. That being said I don't like the idea of Viloria moving up in weight to fight at 112 full-time because it strikes me as a fighter moving up to move away from some of the top junior flyweights. Professionally it might be a good move for Viloria because while any interesting or potential big money fights for Viloria are probably at flyweight, if he doesn't think he can hang with the top dogs in the division then he should bail - with three losses in his last 11 fights (plus a NC) Viloria is at a difficult time in his career, if he stays at flyweight and losses again he's essentially done as a top contender. As a boxing fan though I hate the idea of running out of a division to protect your record -- and with that in mind I'd rather see Viloria stay at flyweight, get his belt back from Carlos Tamara and then work together a rematch with Edgar Sosa.

ROUND 1: Sorry Joe, but a fighter isn't out of touch with reality. If Viloria is having problems making weight routinely, he knows the next best thing is to move it on up and start tackling a new division. I don't feel he's doing this to protect his record. Although I would like to see a rematch with Tamara, if he feels moving up is best, then I say do it. 1-0 Ramon.


2. Chris John has expressed that he would take a fight against either Juan Manuel Lopez or Yuriorkis Gamboa for their belts. You'd pick John over either one.

Ramon Aranda - FICTION: OK, I'll come right out and say that I'd like his chances against Lopez who's a bit more relaxed in the ring and could allow John to setup some fine counter punches. It really would be a good fight and hell, John would have a natural size advantage. If he could give Marquez problems, why not Lopez and John is still only 30. Against Gamboa though - a guy who'd get right in his face from the moment the bell rang would probably be too much. He put on a boxing clinic against Rocky Juarez last year until Juarez (in their first bout) stepped on the gas in the final round; nearly getting a stoppage. What do you suppose Gamboa would do if he stunned John? He'd be all over him like WBC sanctioning fees in a "title" bout; that's what! I'd pick Gamboa in a TKO in that one.

Joe Roche – FACT: So you're asking whether or not I'd take the #1 ranked featherweight in the world in a featherweight fight? Yeah I'm comfortable with that. I'd like to remind my boss here to calm down about Yuriorkis Gamboa. I said on "3 More Rounds" two weeks ago that Rogers Mtagwa had a career making (call it a Rocky) moment against JuanMa Lopez and we suddenly began over valuing him as a potential contender. Gamboa is a good fighter, and someday he may be great but right now he's a solid prospect who beat a guy he should've beaten (and who was only getting any action because he had the best night of his life when another fighter had his worst). "El Ciclon" will someday be a top featherweight, but right now Chris John is a top featherweight and if they met right now I'd take "The Dragon" to win that fight. Sure Gamboa has the tools to give John problems, but lets not discount how good Chris John is -- he's 43-0 and absolutely dominated Rocky Juarez on a huge stage for 11 1/2 rounds. I also think John would be a good pick against JuanMa Lopez who I think is a fantastic fighter but like Ramon said John would be able to dictate the pace of that fight and counter JuanMa out of his pants. Frankly I think we're a bit guilty of being distracted by the shiny new toys on the block (JuanMa/Gamboa) and we've forgotten that there's already a king on this block and until one of them knocks him off I'm taking the guy who has done it before.

ROUND 2: Ramon, half a round does not a fight make. Sure, Gamboa might be on John like Bob Arum on a Filipino fighter, or he might back off of him. Before getting TV exposure, Gamboa was criticized for not being able to close the show, and if he can't do that with John, "The Dragon" will slay him on points. I actually think Juan Manuel Lopez has a better chance than Gamboa, and I'd still pick John in that fight too. Round for Joe. 1-1 Draw.


3. Despite being a headliner, main-eventing these Top Rank pay-per-views isn't doing Nonito Donaire's career any favors.

Ramon Aranda - FACT: I'm a big Donaire fan and I'm glad he's getting to main event another Pinoy Power card but let's face it; if he's going to become a big star, he needs to be on bigger cards where hundreds of thousands or millions of fans are watching. He's got a pretty good following so far but if he's going to explode, he really needs to be a co-feature on cards with Pacquiao until he gets his own mega-fights. Filipinos love them some Manny Pacquiao and quite a few dig Donaire. So let's make sure they maximize his viewing audience while they have the vehicle for it.

Joe Roche – FICTION: Oh c'mon Ramon how can you possibly say that headlining these Pinoy Power 3 cards is doing Nonito Donaire's career NO favors? Could Donaire being fighting on different cards that would have a BIGGER impact on his career? Of course, but we can't all fight on Pacquiao undercards. That's not the question though - and you'd be crazy to think that Donaire's career hasn't been helped at least somewhat by headlining these Top Rank cards. In this country it is very difficult to be a non-American PPV headliner -- actually I can count on one hand who they are, and the fact is that one of them is Nonito Donaire. Do you know who isn't headlining pay per views? Wladimir Klitschko. As a matter of fact the Ring magazine #1 heavyweight in the world can't even get in American TV, the only time you see him is when he's hanging out with that girl from Heroes. Donaire is an established name in this country -- even if he only sells 20,000 pay per views he's still doing TNA numbers and it only helps his career to be seen by Top Rank by a guy who can make them money. Sure there are better things for him - just like more people would watch Jimmy Fallon's show if he was on at 11:30 but you can't stay that he isn't getting exposure by being on at 12:30 right? So yeah, could it be better -- sure, but it's still a good thing for his career to be headlining Top Rank pay per views.

ROUND 3: Ramon's drubbing Joe with his logic and how being a co-feature would really help – WAIT! Joe's throwing bombs back using that stinging "technicality" technique he's worked on in the gym! What a round! I am going to have to warn Joe though for not researching his facts fully... Donaire IS in fact an American citizen. But both men have valid and correct points. Of course the Pinoy Power cards have helped somewhat, but Donaire really needs to be put in more attention-grabbing avenues other than a $34.95 pay-per-view with much left to be desired. Joe squeaks out a 10-10 draw round. 2-2 draw.


AND NOW THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS!


4. A fight between Kelly Pavlik and Sergio Martinez will probably meet the same demise as Pavlik/Williams did.



Joe Roche – FICTION: I was very critical of Pavlik and how he handled the Paul Williams debacle and I remain convinced that the injury he suffered to his hand isn't what forced him out of that fight - it was a heart problem and Pavlik needs to find his before he will be considered on my P4P list again. That being said I do believe that Pavlik heard a lot of the criticism that was thrown his way after the Williams deal fell through and I think he wants to rehab his image in 2010 and the best way to do that is to fight the guy who gave Paul Williams trouble and destroy him. If you're not going to fight the man, you might as well fight the guy behind the man and in this case Martinez - coming off a close loss to Williams is the perfect candidate.

Ramon Aranda – FICTION: I too think that the fight; should it be signed will actually come off. For one, as Joe points out, Pavlik can't afford NOT to take the fight if he doesn't want to damage his public appeal any further. Believe me, the media would crucify "The Ghost" if the fight gets announced and then doesn't come off. In fact, his hand better not even come up in any interviews/conversations as it relates to pulling out or postponing another fight in the immediate future. I understand both sides are seriously looking into this fight and it would go a long way to saving face if Pavlik takes the fight and actually wins - which is no easy task by the way.

ROUND 4: I wanted to give this round to Ramon so bad because he makes an excellent point. If the hand is even mentioned, it will sound like he's already lining up the excuses. But Ramon basically pointed to Joe's argument, and I have to give the round to Joe. Sergio Martinez is a good marker to find out if Pavlik's really "in it to win it." Joe takes the round. 3-2 Joe.


5. Peter Manfredo Jr. defeated Matt Vanda last weekend for the vacant NABF middleweight belt. This makes Manfredo Jr. relevant again.

Joe Roche – FACT: It's not the NABF middleweight belt, or the victory over Matt Vanda that makes Peter Manfredo Jr. relevant again, it's the fact that he's moved down in weight to a more natural weight division. I was at Mohegan Sun for the Manfredo-Vanda fight and I spoke to Peter after the fight and he essentially admitted that he shouldn't have spent so much time at 168. He isn't a power puncher, and while he does have a very sturdy chin the guys at 168 were simply too powerful for him. Now that he's not under contract with the Contender he's free to do what is best for his career - and what is best for his career is a move to 160. Frankly Middleweight is a very deep division, but not a top heavy division and most of the interesting guys in the division are all young prospects so Manfredo Jr. should get his name into the world title discussion relatively soon. He's still a good draw (especially in his home area) and trust me when I say that he looks much better at 160 then he did recently at 168. I don't think Manfredo Jr. is in the Pavlik/Williams/Martinez class but he's in the group right below them and frankly that puts him far more relevant at 160 then he was ever going to be at 168 again (he can thank Sakio Bika and Joe Calzaghe for that).

Ramon Aranda – FICTION: JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ JR. beat Matt Vanda TWICE; despite the first one being controversial as I had Vanda winning. Still, a win over Vanda right now goes about as far as a win over Lamon Brewster does at heavyweight! I know you love Peter, Joe, and I'll agree with you that he's a great guy inside and outside the ring but aside from putting him in the winner's circle again, this does zero for Manfredo's credibility. A notch below Pavlik/Williams/Martinez at 160? Are you kidding me? Manfredo might draw in the northeast but he'd be lucky to get co-featured anywhere else in the country. Now Jesse Brinkley (another alumni of The Contender) beating an over-hyped prospect in Curtis Stevens is more relevant given the outlook of the fight beforehand. As for Manfredo-Vanda? I'm sure only Vanda's corner thought he could win. If you want to talk about guys who are below those three previously mentioned top 160-pounders, name Felix Sturm, Sebastian Sylvester or hell, even Winky Wright as more relevant but Manfredo has a LONG way to go before being "relevant". I think Calzaghe beat it out of him in 2007, if the two losses to Sergio Mora in 2005 hadn't already done so.

ROUND 5: Moving weight classes makes you relevant? In that case, James Toney is the most relevant fighter alive! It may be a wise move, but it does not immediately make you relevant. Round goes to Ramon. 3-3 Draw... the fight is on the line!


6. Floyd Mayweather Jr. will find a way to weasel out of this fight with Shane Mosley, too.

Joe Roche – FICTION: I'm going to lose this question, I understand that going in but I hate the way you worded this question so let's dissect that for a second. Floyd Mayweather Jr. did NOT -- I repeat, he DID NOT weasel out of a fight with Manny Pacquiao. Floyd didn't ask anything of Manny that Floyd wasn't willing to subject himself to. Manny didn't want to take a blood test 14 days out from the fight because he believes it makes him weaker, and he has a problem personally with giving blood two weeks before a fight. No medical evidence can be found that backs up the idea that 14 days after a blood test your body is still tired, if anything the only person I saw who could even approach backing up Manny's claim was that it may have an effect for 2 days TOPS. Essentially what happened is that Manny Pacquiao has a personal issue with blood being drawn 2 weeks out from a fight and that is what stopped that fight from happening -- not anything Floyd did, because had Manny said "ok" to the 14 day out blood test this fight would be happening - how is that Floyd's fault? If Pacquiao had said that the fight couldn't happen in the middle of March because he is a lifelong Julius Caesar fan and he has an inherent fear of fighting during the Ides of March would you also blame Floyd for that? Because, again we're just talking about a mental problem for Manny and Manny alone.

That all being said this is a fight that works perfectly for Floyd. He will be congratulated for one-upping Pacquiao, he will bask in the greatness of himself, he will be able to shut down all the critics who say he never fights anyone and then he will beat Shane Mosley handily on May 1st without much of a problem. Oh sure after the fight people will say that Shane was never a quality opponent, that we overrated him after the Margarito fight, and so on and so forth but the fact remains that Floyd shut everyone up with this fight and now people are pissed because he isn't fighting Paulie Malignaggi and feeding into their hatred.

Ramon Aranda – FICTION: Mayweather is backed up into a corner and even he knows he can't afford to pass up the chance to face Mosley; a guy who's been calling him out since I was in high school. That being said, I understand this fight is damn near close to being finished with Mosley already signing off on the fight and having no problem with any drug tests before or after the fight. Tack on the fact that this is all being handled by one promotional company (Golden Boy Promotions) and you've got yourself one easy mega fight to put together. Mosley is willing to suck it up and agree to pretty much anything to get a chance to wallop Floyd Mayweather once and for all. Mayweather gets his drug test peace of mind and a whole lot of dough. Bank on this one being announced within the next week and a half!

ROUND 6: Joe, did you just throw this fight away or did you run out of steam? Let me start by saying my answer would have been "Fiction" – he would try to weasel his way out of the fight, but Shane and Golden Boy won't let him. Ramon answered my question, "Would Floyd try to get out of it?" Joe answered the question, "Did Floyd get out of the fight with Manny." The answer is yes, by the way, but yes or no isn't relevant here because you didn't answer the question. You said that Floyd will win the fight and piss everyone off. Ramon addressed the question saying that Floyd can't afford to not take the fight. Round to Ramon.

And your winner, in the red corner... RAMON "LAURA MARRIED WAY BENEATH HER LEVEL WHEN SHE GOT WITH ME" ARANDA!!!

I know Ramon is a closet WWE fan, so his prize this week, one of his favorite wrestling babes!



Woah! Is it hot in here or is it just me?