411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 02.09.10: Valero, Mayweather-Mosley, ShoBox, Allan Green, More

Posted by Ramon Aranda on 02.09.2010

Will Mayweather vs. Mosley be more exciting than Pacquiao vs. Clottey? Will Allan Green make it to the second stage of the Super Six World Boxing Classic? Is Edwin Valero similar to a young Manny Pacquiao? 411’s Patrick Cassidy and Jonathan Yaghoubi debate these topics and more in the latest edition of 411 Fact or Fiction: Boxing!


Original image by Rafael Rivera

Alright we've got Patrick Cassidy and Jonathan Yaghoubi all set to go for this week's Fact or Fiction so let's jump right to it!

Round 1: Comparing Edwin Valero to a younger Manny Pacquiao is a valid comparison.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - While I am a fan of Valero as a boxer and thought he showed tremendous heart fighting with a nasty cut the whole fight on Saturday night, comparing him to a younger Pacquiao is a bit silly. Actually, I don't even think they belong in the same sentence if you want me to get more accurate. I love the fact that Valero has not gone the distance in any fight in his career. However, except for the fight against DeMarco, all of Valero's wins have come against unknown and unproven fighters.

In his first big fight, Pacquiao dominated a future Hall of Famer in Marco Antonio Barrera. He rebounded from a tough loss from Erik Morales and went to beat him down in the next two fights. He has had one draw and one win against Marquez. Did I mention that Manny did all this before the age of 28. That happens to be the current age of Valero and has not even come close to those accomplishments. I think Valero is good but I don't think he has that good as people think he is. he still has some holes as a fighter and if he were to fight Marquez, he would suffer his first defeat.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - It's certainly a fair comparison. We're talking about a sport where promoters and commentators are willing to throw out lofty comparisons to every fighter with a padded record. How many times have you heard a fighter compared to a "young Mike Tyson" or his work rate reminds me of a "young Roberto Duran". We're in a business that loves Hyperbole so let's not act like comparing Valero to Pacquiao is some outlandish statement. I'm not saying Valero is going to grow into Manny Pacquiao but it's certainly a far comparison to say Valero is on the relative level of Pacquiao when he first took off in the States in 2001.

First let's point out the fact that Valero loves to jab before throwing his straight left, throws a lot of punches, possesses good footwork, and sometimes lapses on defense. Is that not Manny Pacquiao when he first debuted in the states?

Scorecard: 0 for 1


Round 2: Mayweather vs. Mosley will end up being a more exciting fight than Pacquiao vs. Clottey; though both will be fun to watch.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - While the Mayweather-Mosley fight is the one that everyone wants to see, it will certainly not be as good a fight as Pacquiao- Clottey. I have written previously that I feel that the Clottey-Pacquiao fight has a chance to be a boxing classic. The styles of both guys will make this one of the most exciting and entertaining fights of 2010.

Mayweather-Mosley has a chance to be a fun fight to watch but there also a good chance it could be a big borefest. Is any Mayweather fight ever a exciting one to watch? There could be a good chance that Sugar Shane might have not anything left in the tank when he fight's Mayweather. Let's also throw in the fact that Mosley's layoff will be 15 months when he fights Floyd. Pacquiao and Clottey are coming off some great performances in their last fight and poised for a great things when they step in the ring.

Also Jonathan, you're way off in bringing up the likes of Barrera and Morales and saying Valero is fighting bums. Manny Pacquiao didn't fight a credible opponent (Lehlohonolo Ledwaba) until his 35th fight! Valero was fighting a legitimate top 10 contender at his 26th fight. So you're way off plus after Pacquiao did pick off Ledwaba for the belt he went on a streak of six straight fights against tomato cans. So let's stop with the Valero fighting bum argument because the fact is Manny Pacquiao fought bums much later into his career. If we're comparing Valero and a young Pacquiao it's safe to say that Valero is light years ahead of a Pre-Morales trilogy Pacquiao in terms of opposition. That is unless you consider someone like Serikzhan Yeshmagambetov to be better than Antonio Pitalua and Antonio DeMarco. I'm not saying nor do I believe that Valero is going to transform into the Manny Pacquiao we know and love. I am saying that he is very similar to Pacquiao when Pac was at this point in his career.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - This is another one where I completely disagree with your view of Clottey/Pacquiao. I truly believe Clottey was handpicked to make Pacquiao look good in this fight. I'm taking nothing away from Josh Clottey who's a legitimate top 10 contender but his style does not make for a competitive fight with Pacquiao. We saw what happened to Miguel Cotto when he stood in front of Manny Pacquiao, he got rocked because he couldn't keep up with the amount of punches thrown at him. Clottey fights a similar style but lacks a knockout punch which basically means you're getting the equivalent of Diet-Miguel Cotto. Clottey is a good fighter who will give a lot of guys trouble but he's never beaten a great opponent nor does he have the technical skills to outbox Manny Pacquiao. He's going to be a sitting duck walking into a monsoon. You have to make Manny Pacquiao work for his punches and Josh Clottey just doesn't fight that kind of fight. I'll be shocked if this fight goes past 5.

On the other hand you have a fight for the Welterweight Championship of the world and probably the best Welterweight title fight since Trinidad and De La Hoya over 10 years ago(How old does that make ya feel?) I think Mosley realizes that he doesn't have many big fights left in him and still wants to build his legacy even further. Remember after Mosley dusted DLH in their first fight many were saying that Mosley had all time great potential. He's had a great career but never really lived up to that hype thanks to Winky and Vernon Forrest. I think that still gnaws at him and is why he will leave everything in the ring against Floyd Mayweather. Say what you want about Floyd but the man cares about his legacy and his unblemished record and will do anything to keep it that way. When fighters test Floyd it brings out the best in him and produces exciting fights (Judah, Hatton, Castillo). If Floyd doesn't have to work he doesn't but if you push him he'll certainly push back and make for a great fight. I think this fight means so much more than the other fight and these mega fights generally have a way of bringing out the best in both men. I expect a very good technical battle.

Scorecard: 0 for 2


Round 3: If Tomasz Adamek got in the ring with David Haye this year, you'd favor Tomasz.


Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I don't think there's any questioning that Haye-Adamek would be one of the most exciting and significant fights in the heavyweight division quite some time. This would really be a barn burner as both men seem to have injected some life in the heavyweight division that has not been seen in years!

When it comes down to it I actually think it's a perfect fight for Haye. He'd be the bigger man in that one and I think he hits a lot harder. Adamek has good ring generalship and as good as his chin is, we've never seen him against someone that can bang like David Haye. Whatever else you think of Haye, his power is second to none.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - People are a little down on Tomasz after his performance against Jason Estrada but let's not forget that Estrada gave Povetkin a very tough six rounds before fading and was a decorated amateur. He's no pushover and he gave Adamek his first real test at heavyweight. With that said I'd still easily take Adamek in a match against Haye. Let's not forget that Haye is no natural Heavyweight either, he came up the same root as Adamek and to this point in his Heavyweight career has been pretty lackluster. He got hit with several clean shots by Monte Barrett and then proceeded to fight a god awful fight against Valuev where he was content with pot shotting the entire night. He also never really tasted Valuev's punches because Valuev refused to throw so David Haye is just as much an unknown at this point at Heavyweight as Adamek was. Also with the whole power argument let's not forget he took David Golota's best shots and kept coming. Remember, power is the last thing to go in a Heavyweight so it's not as if you can blame Golota's age for why Adamek withstood his punches.

The main reason I'm taking Adamek is the fact that the guy is a great technical fighter who consistently throws a large amount of punches and is known for possessing a tremendous heart which has often taken several fighters into the deep waters where he drowned them in the championship rounds. It happened in two classic battles with Paul Briggs and against Steve Cunningham. Haye's biggest fault is his perceived lack of heart. If Adamek withstands those early shots their is no reason to believe Haye can beat him later in the fight. Haye does not like to trade shots and that's what Adamek likes doing the best. I'd certainly take Adamek by late round stoppage.

Scorecard: 0 for 3

And now for the championship rounds!

Round 4: Although the Freddy Hernandez vs. DeMarcus Corley fight on Friday was fun to watch; it had no business being the main event on ShoBox: The New Generation.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - This is a tough one for me because I supported the fight on Twitter and believed it would make for an entertaining scrap which it did. However, ShoBox is technically meant to bring together young fighters together to test each other in the ring. I mean there are plenty of hungry young fighters who would have jumped at the chance to be on national television even if it was on short notice. Give one of them a shot but overall I'm not going to complain because it was a very good fight to watch.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - Even though I do not have Showtime on my cable package, this is an easy one to answer. If the name of the show is called "The New Generation", then why on earth would you put two fighters who over the age of 30? Corley has not been a factor since his valiant effort against Miguel Cotto. He lost five consecutive fights from 2006-08 and is no longer a player in the welterweight division. His best days are behind him. I understand Hernandez is the guy they are trying to market with a record of 28-1 but he is going to be 31 in March so you can't really consider him the "New Generation". I am thinking of guys like 26 or younger to showcase on that show. This fight was a waste and something you can't put on what is supposed to be a prospect show.

Scorecard: 1 for 4


Round 5: You give Glen Johnson more than a decent chance at beating Tavoris Cloud for the IBF light heavyweight strap.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - I'd certainly give the Road Warrior a chance. It's kind of heart not too after he's proven the critics wrong on so many occasions. The man consistently rises to the challenge when everyone but himself has counted him out. So I'm not going to write him off and say he has no shot. However, I don't think he wins the fight. Tavoris Cloud has now retired two former world champions and did it dominating fashion. First was Julio Cesar Gonzalez who is most famous for ending the undefeated record of the great Dariusz Michalczewski. Cloud managed to dominate Gonzalez and retired him on his stool. Mind you Gonzalez has faced the best that Light Heavyweight had to offer in the 90's and early part of last decade and was never stopped. Cloud did what Roy Jones, Montell Griffin, Zsolt Erdei, and Clinton Woods could not do. He then went on to dominate Clinton Woods who ranks up there as one of the better Light Heavyweight's of the last 10 years and is a man who's beaten the Road Warrior.

So while I'm not counting Johnson out, I'm certainly not making him the favorite. It's a hell of a fight and one I'm looking forward too with great anticipation.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - You gotta admire Johnson for coming back so quickly after his loss to Dawson. Although Johnson dropped both of his fights to Dawson, he clearly remains one of the best and formidable guys in the division.

Scorecard: 2 for 5


Round 6: You're willing to bet that Allan Green won't make it into the second stage of the Super Six World Boxing Classic.

Patrick Cassidy: FACT - Mortgage, Car, whatever I have if I can beat that I would. Allan Green is a good fighter who's fighting in the company of great fighters. Even if he didn't have the disadvantage of being one fight behind it's hard to see him pulling off a win against any of the five guys in the Super Six. I can see him fighting the fight of his life and maybe pulling off an upset but to stay consistently dominant against the likes of Arthur Abraham, Andre Ward, and Carl Froch? Nah...

I'm still upset we didn't get the box-off between Green and Bika because even in that case I still would have bet against Green.

Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - He's already at a disadvantage coming in with zero points but he'll have to get by Andre Ward and then Mikkel Kessler in his next two bouts. I don't think it'll happen.

Final Scorecard: 3 for 6

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