411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 03.16.10: The Event Edition

Posted by Ramon Aranda on 03.16.2010

Looking back at the action in Arlington, Texas this past weekend, we bring you this week's edition of Fact or Fiction with a "The Event" theme. Ryan Bates and Joe Roche battle it out once again as they dig into some questions regarding the fallout of the fights at the New Cowboys Stadium headlined by Pacquiao vs. Clottey.



All "The Event" photos by Chris Farina / Top Rank

Mayweather-Mosley photo by Jeff Fusco-Hoganphotos / GBP

OK gang, this week's Fact or Fiction brings you the rematch between Ryan Bates (0-1) and Joe Roche (1-1) as they lock horns to discuss the action from Saturday night's card.

As usual, I'll be your third man in the ring so let's get it on!

Round 1: Despite the lack of action, what you saw from Manny Pacquiao on Saturday impressed you.

Ryan Bates FACT - I was impressed by Manny's performance in as much as Manny is impressive any time he's in the ring. Despite the fact that all of us said that Clottey's style was tailor-made for Pacquiao, most, if not everyone, said that based on Clottey's past performances, he should be a tough test for Pacquaio's style, as he would really have to chip away at Clottey's defense and open up more often, leaving himself open for Clottey to sneak in a power punch. We all knew what Clottey SHOULD have done, and he didn't do any of it.

By and large, this is Josh Clottey's fault. He came to pick up a loss and a paycheck, not to take a shot at dethroning the pound-for-pound champion. But we should not take away from Manny for this: he started full-throttle in Round 1, and was still going in Round 12. Manny is not a guy you can hope will tire out, because he won't. He'll keep coming and coming like the Energizer Bunny. And as Jim Lampley so eloquently pointed out, he "BANG! BANG! BANG!"ed out over 800 more punches than the "challenger" (to use the term loosely). Color me impressed.

Joe Roche FACT - Frankly one of the major reasons that Clottey looked so bad is that Pacquiao looked so good. He threw over 100 punches per round and yes that number gets inflated a bit because the guy he was hitting wasn't punching back, but Clottey never responded because he didn't have a second to breathe. Maybe Clottey had no heart, but Pacquiao didn't sit back and let him coast he unleashed hell against "The Grand Master" and made an otherwise talented welterweight look so bad that the next question had to be asked.

Scorecard: They agree to ... well, agree. Ryan however gets the bonus for getting more in-depth into Clottey's performance while still pointing out Pacquiao's strengths in the bout.

1-0 Ryan

Round 2: If you were Top Rank, you would drop Joshua Clottey from his contract.

Ryan Bates: FICTION - I sure as hell wouldn't renew the contract though. I'd do what promoters do to their fighters all the time: review the contract, see how little they can get away with doing without breaching the contract, not give him any more title shots, probably not give him any more TV time unless it's stipulated in the contract; if the fighter gets frustrated, make HIM breach the contract so the legal ramifications are on him. Most of the time I consider this "screwing the fighter" but in the case of Josh Clottey... I could look the other way.

Joe Roche: FICTION - For what doing exactly what you paid him to do? Give me a break - everyone and their mother knew that Clottey was going to get in his shell and not put himself in danger. It's why he lost to Cotto, it's why NOBODY realistically thought he would beat Pacquiao and it's precisely what happened. Clottey is a good company man - he knew what he role was on this night, and everyone who was in Dallas said that he walked around like he was "just happy to be here." He made a boatload of money, he made Bob Arum a boatload of money and he didn't upset the possible Mayweather showdown by making Manny look bad. He landed enough punches so you don't think he intentionally lost but he still lost -- like Michael Marley said, the L in Clottey is for loser and that's exactly what we got on Saturday night.

Scorecard: Solid points from both guys, while I agree with Ryan's way of keeping Clottey down, he also played "the role" despite my own objections that he "landed enough punches so you don't think he intentionally lost."

2-1 Ryan

Round 3: Let's face it, "The Event" (card) sucked. However, you still feel it was a success for boxing.

Ryan Bates: FACT - It's hard to say fact, but when it boils down to it, I'm sure the pay-per-view numbers were good, and the whole thing made enough money to make King Solomon wet his Biblical pants. Hooray for promoters. But to the boxing fan, there's only one good thing that's come out of it: the war drums for Pacquiao/Mayweather have begun to beat again, and beat loudly. And the fingers are pointed at Floyd, as people are starting to realize that he buffooned the general public again with his lies and allegations of steroids. If Mayweather beats Mosley (that's a big "if") and Pacquiao/Mayweather can finally happen, then The Un-Event will have served its purpose.

Joe Roche: FICTION - Top Rank has consistently shown over the last few years that they have absolutely no concern for the paying customer, and the paying customer keeps coming back but sooner or later you're going to feel the negative impact of putting on such a worthless card time and time again. It's never good when your announcers talk bad about the card all night, it's never good when you put on a pre-show hyping up the stacked "EVENT" only to have everyone on TV tell you that the following card is going to suck at 9:01 PM after you've already paid the bill. I am disgusted by Top Rank and how they treated their fans for this one - and yes there will be people who point to 50,000+ in the house for the fight and say "see boxing is back!' but the numbers weren't unprecedented and we've done it before. People are hungry for boxing to climb back into the mainstream but when it gets a chance to make a statement Bob Arum gives us the biggest piece of garbage undercard of all time and guys like Dana White who are direct competitors for PPV buy money laugh all the way to bank. Boxing keeps shooting itself in the foot - you've got access to millions of people with this "The Event" show and how do you show them what they're missing by not buying all of your Top Rank PPV's - Jose Luis Castillo in a fight that YOUR ANNOUNCERS said never should have happened. Short term it was a nice thing for boxing, but long term a card like "The Event" will do much more bad then good.

Scorecard: Roche nailed it.

2-2 Even

And Now For The Championship Rounds!

Round 4: You're convinced Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. would beat John Duddy now.

Joe Roche: FICTION - I'm convinced we're going to see this fight - and I'm convinced that nobody cares. But at this point I'd say this one is at best a toss up. Neither guy seems very interested in fighting, Duddy to me a mystery as the guy shows little to no pop, and almost no interest in actually -- you know, boxing. But JCC Jr. is no better, and it may seem like a lifetime ago but the last time we saw JCC Jr. he also looked lethargic and bored. Frankly this would be a fight of two guys looking to out under-perform the other guy which almost assures us that it'll be the main co-feature for the Foreman/Cotto fight in June.

Ryan Bates: FICTION - I'm not convinced of that. Yes, John Duddy is barely a C-lister at best. But let's not forget, Junior sucks too. Exhibit A: Troy Rowland. Exhibit B: The first match with Matt Vanda. The only thing I'm convinced of is that if this fight takes place, the amount of collective suck will be so great, we'll begin to see catastrophes of "2012"-proportions. Round 1: The Eiffel Tower falls. Round 2: The Sphinx's head falls off. Round 3: California is finally hit by the Big One and breaks off the US. Round 4: Adolph Hitler comes back as a zombie dictator to lead an army of zombies to slaughter anyone who is at the fight. And so forth. Nothing good can come from a Chavez Jr/Duddy fight.

Scorecard: Ryan's hilarious answer nearly earns him the point but Joe gets the nod for sticking to the question.

3-2 Joe

Round 5: Humberto Soto is not a threat to any champion at lightweight.

Joe Roche: FACT - Marquez, Katsidis, Valero -- you wouldn't think Soto could hang with any of those guys and after his performance against David Diaz I'd be shocked if he could even hear the final bell against those guys. I'm not sure why we're supposed to care about Humberto Soto other then the fact that Bob Arum wants us to care about him but in keeping with the theme of Saturday night he seems completely disinterested in actually fighting or "trying" and other then his length I don't see one attribute that he has that would give any of the other lightweight champions a problem. Even a punchy JMM at this point would be too physical and too powerful for Soto in my mind.

Ryan Bates: FICTION - Ever heard of Paulus Moses? Neither have I. But I looked him up, and sure enough, he currently has a piece of the WBA belt at lightweight. He's 25-0 (17 KOs), but his resume is a Who's Who of Who? He's fought almost exclusively in his homeland of Namibia. At 21-0 he was fighting a guy who was 0-1. I'm fairly certain that despite his plodding performance Saturday, Humberto Soto could beat the brakes off of Paulus Moses. As for Marquez, Lopez, Acosta and Katsidis... maaaaybe Acosta, certainly not the other three. But Paulus Moses is ripe for the picking.

Scorecard: LOL, way to research there Ryan. The question did say "any" lightweight champion and Moses unfortunately fits the bill. Point to Ryan.

3-3 Even

Round 6: Golden Boy will feed off the lackluster "The Event" card and strike back with a better rounded undercard for Mosley vs. Mayweather.

Joe Roche: FACT - They have to. Seriously it almost felt like Jim Lampley was sent to Dallas on Oscar De La Hoya's dime didn't it? I mean the broadcast was so lackluster, it was so lousy, it was so offensive as a paying customer that Golden Boy is going to be able to put on a strong card and then establish themselves as the #1 promotional company in boxing. Oscar isn't stupid - and he knows how disappointed people are in "The Event" so he's going to go out of his way to make sure that all of the fights on May 1st are good, solid, competitive and MEANINGFUL fights. If Golden Boy is content to be a one fight card like Top Rank we can kiss this resurgence of boxing goodbye because in this day and age people won't put up with paying hard earned cash for p.o.s. cards like the one from last Saturday and if you think I'm upset today you should've been with me around 12:30 am on Sunday morning.

Ryan Bates: FACT - At least I certainly hope it's fact. Remember, the massive pile of dung known as "The Dream Match" undercard Golden Boy was partially responsible for too. Both promoters had the responsibility of giving us a good undercard on that show, and both failed. So I hope that Golden Boy will get a clue and beef up the May 1 undercard. But I'm not holding my breath.

Final Scorecard: Joe rants away but still finds time to make his point. Ryan makes a similar point but in a different direction, making note of the headache-inducing undercard that was "The Dream Match". Again, good research. I've gotta call this one a wash.

4-4 Even. And we've got ourselves a draw. Well played men and we'll see you again soon.

Now it's time for you to tell us your own thoughts. Fact or Fiction? Let us know!