411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 03.10.09: Clottey-Cotto, John Ruiz, Pacquiao in 2009, More

Posted by Ramon Aranda on 03.10.2009

It's Nevada vs. Georgia as Ryan Kaye and Carlos Calderon discuss whether or not Manny Pacquiao will lose in 2009, if Joshua Clottey stands a chance against Miguel Cotto and if John Ruiz deserves another title shot. All this and more on this week's Boxing Fact or Fiction.


Original image by Rafael Rivera

Welcome to this week's Boxing Fact or Fiction where we find out if our participants agree or disagree with various statements. This time around we're joined by Ryan Kaye of the red corner who recently developed a new column titled Rabbit Punches where he takes potshots at the sport's latest offerings (he also co-hosts our podcast 3 More Rounds). In the blue corner we have Carlos Calderon who's back from his recent hiatus and he came back strong two weeks ago with a new edition of From the Vault where he looked at the Gatti-Mayweather contest.

Now that they both know the instructions, let's keep it clean (somewhat) and let's get it on!

Round 1: You think Marquez's win last week makes him a serious candidate for being the #1 pound for pound fighter.

Ryan Kaye: FACT - And while I wouldn't put him there right now, it does put Manny in the precarious position of only being one or two losses away from slipping into number 2. The Pacquiao/Marquez rivalry is a game of "Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better." Pacquiao beats a name guy, Marquez beats a name guy. Pacquiao gets a belt, Marquez gets a belt. Pacquiao beats David Diaz and Oscar De La Hoya, Marquez beats Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz. Tit for tat. If Manny were not in the picture, there should be no doubt in anyone's mind that JMM would be top dog.

However, the record reflects, no matter how hard people try to deny or refute it, that Manny Pacquiao defeated Juan Manuel Marquez on March 15, 2008. Number 1 beats Number 2, and that's the leg Manny has to stand on. The onus is on the Pacman, however, to keep that pound-for-pound crown.

Carlos Calderon: FACT - I agree with most of what Ryan had to say about the very personal and heated competitive rivalry between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez, but I can see and will mostly agree with anyone putting Marquez as a #1 pound for pound fighter RIGHT NOW. Marquez in my eyes beat Pacquiao in both fights. He is the only fighter in the world right now that I can say can match or surpass the Filipino's skills.

No way? Yes way.

Pacquiao's record is complied of big names. He has been in many legendary fights that few will ever forget. Yet those big names were also past their past primes. In fact most if not all of the lightweights the Pac-monster has faced have been past their prime or of little competition. You have names like Erik Morales, Macro Antonio Barrera, Jorge Solis, and David Diaz on the list. Erik Morales and Macro Antonio Barrera were past their prime. Morales had one last great performance in him till being knocked out in the last two fights with Pacquiao. Barrera wasn't has worn has Morales at the time when he met Manny, but in both fights Pacquiao was the clear winner. Solis was simply a stay busy fight while David Diaz was easy pickings for a WBC lightweight belt and a stepping stone to multi-million dollar payday with the big man himself, Oscar De La Hoya.

Now let's look at Marquez's record. Marquez has fought a past his prime Barrera, a young yet inexperience Rocky Juarez, lightweight kingpin Joel Casamayor, and the best opponent Marquez or Pacquiao have had, Juan Diaz.

Marquez recent competition has been on another level than Pacquiao's. The only thing holding Marquez back would be two close, very close decision losses to the man above him. And keep in mind that most fight fans give Marquez the win on both occasions. Yet his two wins over Joel Casamayor and especially Juan Diaz would be enough to give Marquez a nudge into the #1 spot or at least tie….if that is even possible.

Score: 1 for 1


Round 2: Golden Boy will make Calzaghe an offer he can't refuse to entice him to fight Hopkins one more time.

Ryan Kaye: FICTION - After Bernard's spanking of Kelly Pavlik in October, Joe Calzaghe sees a man who may not be in his prime, but is still a dangerous man with a sharp boxing mind. Hopkins may not have figured out the Welshman's speed round the first time, but that's NO guarantee that he can't the second time. If we learned anything last year, it's that you can never, ever rule out the Executioner. No amount of dollar signs will make Cal risk his precious, well-coddled zero.

Carlos Calderon: FICTION - God I hope this will never ever happen again. Who would want to see Calzaghe vs. Hopkins again? NO ONE. That is precisely why Golden Boy and any other promoter will not be interested in this fight. Now let's move on.

Score: 2 for 2

Round 3: 2009 will see the lowest amount of boxing PPVs in recent memory (with most shows going on HBO and Showtime respectively).

Ryan Kaye: My heart says Fact, but my head says FICTION, and I'm going to have to go with my head on this one. Although this first quarter has presented us with some great non-PPV action, I just can't see this trend continuing as long as promoters continue to exist. When Manny and Ricky go gangbusters on PPV, it'll be like handing a gambling addict a black chip and saying, "Have fun." Then we'll start to see more of these big fights going back to PPV.

Carlos Calderon: FACT - Unlike my depressing friend I like to think of myself as a positive person. I have seen HBO change its style a little to feature more free fights featuring exciting prospects. They have without a doubt trying to focus on the fighter themselves more than just their fights. HBO's B.A.D has been the best it has been compared to recent years. I think boxing promoters and the main boxing networks mainly HBO and Showtime will continue to try to bring us as many good fights on free television as much as possible such as JMM vs. Juan Diaz. Then of course there will be the very little few times where the promoters themselves will have no choice but to take the show onto a non-HBO PPV as Bob Arum did with Cotto – Jennings and Pavlik – Rubio card. On the other hand there will be the fights that have no possible way of being on free television programming. Boxing's multi-million fighters will have to get paid millions. Fighters such as Hatton, Pacquiao, De la Hoya, and Floyd Mayweather will most likely always fight on PPV depending on their opponent. So all in all us boxing fans will continue to view solid to great fights on Showtime or HBO and settle for the couple mega fights on PPV. Bottom line is that thanks to MMA's competition and the declining economy boxing is starting to change for the good and that is nothing we can complain about.

Score: 2 for 3

And now for the championship rounds!!

Round 4: You think Joshua Clottey stands a good chance of beating Miguel Cotto if they meet in June.

Carlos Calderon: FACT - There are some fighters that will always have a chance in beating their fellow opponent whoever that may be. Joshua Clottey is one of those fighters. Although Miguel Cotto looked very solid and fresh on his first outing since his vicious loss to Margarito fans all know he was matched up against a very soft opponent. Joshua Clottey will be the real test Cotto will have to pass to show what he has left. Clottey just barely lost against Margarito (weather he had loaded gloves or not is unknown) and crushed Zab Judah in nine rounds. Though he lost against Margarito and beat the easily defeated Judah he showed what he was made of in those fights. Clottey had an easier time fighting Margarito than Cotto or Cintron did and he most likely would have won if it wasn't for a broken hand suffered during the fight. He also handled Judah easier than Cotto did. The Ghana native clearly has a well tuned tool set in his arsenal. Look for each fighter to have their moments in the bout. Though I lean towards Cotto, Clottey can never be counted out of the picture.

Ryan Kaye: FACT - Joshua Clottey has a good chance against anyone. If I can make a video game comparison, Joshua Clottey is the Mario of the welterweight division. Let's take a game like Super Mario Bros. 2 (because I'm old-school like that). Luigi jumps high but runs slow. Toad runs fast but has no "vert." The Princess floats, but is kinda weak at picking up stuff. Mario is pretty good at jumping, pretty good at running, and pretty good at picking up things. Not great, but good.

So too goes Joshua Clottey. He has a pretty good punch, a pretty good chin, and pretty good defense. Nothing outstanding, nothing to write home about, but overall pretty darn good. This isn't a Cotto-Jennings blowout, nor is it a lopsided Cotto-Malignaggi. What are Clottey's chances? Pretty good ones.


Score: 3 for 4

Round 5: 'The Quietman' John Ruiz is deserving of his WBA mandatory challenger status.

Carlos Calderon: FICTION - John Ruiz is has deserving of his title shot as Michael Jennings was of being a title holder or even being on a PPV event featuring the likes of Kelly Pavlik and Miguel Cotto of that matter.. Another reason why heavyweights are boxing's long lost division.

Ryan Kaye: FICTION - I'M more deserving of the WBA mandatory challenger status, and I'm still in the amateurs.

Score: 4 for 5

Round 6: Someone will beat Pacquiao this year.

Carlos Calderon: If Pacquiao fights Marquez, FACT if not FICTION. As I said before I just can't imagine anyone between 130 and 140 lbs that can beat the beast that is Pacquiao except for Marquez. Hopefully I don't eat my words after Hatton – Pacquiao, but I predict Pacquiao will continue his reign till meeting Marquez. Even then Pacquiao has a very good chance of winning and probably will as he has always done against Marquez.

Ryan Kaye: FICTION - Carlos should have stopped ¾ of the way through the first sentence. No one out there can touch Pacquiao. No one. Whoever you put in front of Manny is going to lose. If the fight should go up to 147, well, we've seen what Manny can do there too, but now weight becomes an issue; don't expect Arum to make a mistake with his main cash crop though. The only person to be a threat right now is Juan Manuel Marquez, and considering I feel Manny won both fights, I don't see him losing that either.

Final Score: 4 for 6 - Looks like these two weren't trading too many blows but at least they won't leave a bloody mess.

Thanks again for checking out this week's Fact or Fiction. Stay tuned later this week for our 3 More Rounds boxing podcast, along with Ringside with Raymundo, Rabbit Punches, Inside the Ropes and more!

Meanwhile, let us know your thoughts…fact or fiction?

Till then, see you at the fights.