411 Boxing Fact or Fiction 03.17.09: Angulo-Kirkland, Boxing in TJ, Guerrero and More
Posted by Ramon Aranda on 03.17.2009
This week, we ask if the press is justified in not wanting to visit Tijuana for Top Rank's upcoming card. Plus, was there something shady going on in Manchester last weekend and should Alfredo Angulo take on James Kirkland soon? This and more on this week's FoF.
Original image by Rafael Rivera
Round 1: Robert Guerrero shouldn't be faulted for his no-decision against Daud Yordan.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I was disappointed in the Ghost. I understand that head butts are a part of boxing. They will always happen forever and that is why it is called "accidental". However, I thought he should have gotten through the round and let his cut man work on the cut. I know it was bad, but I think you have to at least try to stop the bleeding and give it another shot. It looked like he quit almost immediately. It was almost comical when Guerrero told the doctor that he could not see and the doctor looked like he did not believe him saying "You can't see??" And before you know it, the fight was called off. I have seen boxers fight through a lot worse cuts then what Guerrero had and he gave himself no chance to continue .It was a puzzling decision to say the least and I believe that the Ghost did not like how the fight was going against Yordan. Yordan looked real good in the small time there as he look to have won the first round and part of that second. Guerrero looked like he did not want to take the chance of the fight going four rounds and leaving it up to the judges. In short, Guerrero to not continue was a very weak finish.
Ramon Aranda: FICTION - I have to agree that this thing should have continued if only for a few more rounds. The cut was pretty bad but I would've liked to see if his corner could at least stopped it. That being said, referee Jon Schorle went on the record last week and said that he would've likely stopped it within the next round too as the cut was in a bad spot and pretty deep. It sucks to have to second guess and with a raucous crowd behind Guerrero it was a real shame that we only got to see a round and a half. Guerrero was beginning to work on the body and I think he would've beaten Yordan, a natural featherweight but the Indonesian looked like he was there to stay for a while. I'm not gonna say that Guerrero quit but I would have liked to see him convince the doc to let him keep going.
Score: 1 for 1
Round 2: You think an Angulo-Kirkland match shouldn't happen just yet.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I think this fight would be a brutal war. Both guys are still prospects with big time potential. They both have raw power and menacing seek and destroy styles. Angulo fights a mature style of power boxing. In his last fight, Angulo looked vulnerable against Cosme Rivera in that first round but came back and administered a beating for the next four rounds until a ringside official climbed into the ring and instructed the ref to stop the fight in the fifth. Kirkland reminds of a mini Mike Tyson. He is tough, well prepared, and wants to hurt someone. How well he takes a really big puncher's punch, I have no idea. He needs to work a little on his all around game but looks like one of the bright stars of boxing right now. A fight between these two guys seems like a logical choice. I think Kirkland vs. Angulo will be a barn burner if it does happen. This would be a defining fight. I feel the winner of this fight would feel like a legit challenge for the vacated IBF title belt.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - I gotta disagree with you Jonathan and for the reasons that I talked about in a recent edition of Inside the Ropes. While I do agree with you that it would be a barn burner, the fact that they're both still prospects and borderline contenders makes me hope that they don't tangle until at least one if not both of them are world champs. I would like this potential fight of the year candidate be a little more meaningful aside from a title shot. I think we could have a unification bout between these two in two years' time.
Score: 1 for 2
Round 3: If a fighter busts open Juan Diaz, he has a great chance of winning.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - Well at this moment, this statement seems to be a no brainer. In both his losses, he started of real well and looked like it was going to be his fight. But both times he has gashed midway through the fight and has completely melted under the pressure of his cuts. He was in control of the Campbell fight as he looked to be winning the first 5 rounds but after being cut in Round 6, he lost every round after that and was not the same fighter as he looked lost and powerless. He got off to a great start against Marquez and looked his youth was going to overpower the older Marquez. But Diaz would get cut midway through round 5, and that was the beginning of the end for him. Marquez looked like a machine when he saw the cut over Diaz and would go on to terminate Diaz in spectacular fashion. If Diaz never got cut like that in both fights, good chance he wins both fights. But there is no way else to put it, if you cut Diaz, you have a great chance to win. Until he proves otherwise, that should be the game plan for every Juan Diaz opponent in the future.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - You nailed it Yags. Diaz has shown on two occasions already that if he gets cut, he's going to have problems adjusting. He's pretty much admitted that in that situation, his killer instincts take over as he gets a little more aggressive and ultimately more wild and impatient. Fighters have to learn to deal with cuts – hell, it's part of the game. You can't let the sight of blood change your style or guys will know that it's open season once you get cut. Campbell and Marquez proved that Diaz becomes a completely different fighter; unfocused and distraught when he's bleeding. And that's not a good thing.
Score: 2 for 3
AND NOW FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS!!
Round 4: Wladimir Klitschko should 'stick it' to David Haye and simply move on. Haye has no right to be making demands.
Ramon Aranda: FICTION - While I agree that Klitschko should be upset that the Haye camp is still not agreeing with the terms for a fight, the ONLY reason I don't think Klitschko should move on is simply because there's no better fight out there for himself or the fans. Quite frankly, a bout against any other heavyweight right now would have no fan fare except possibly against Chris Arreola who's already set to fight in a few weeks.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I totally agree with Ramon on this one. Everything he wrote is exactly why I say fiction as well. It would be very easy for Klitschko to move on and find someone else to fight. I don't feel many people would not be critical of Wladimir if he decided to go that route. Haye is the challenger and should have any right dictating any demands for this fight.
However, Wladimir knows this is the fight that everyone wants to see. This is the biggest money fight in the heavyweight division right now. If Arreola was free, then that would be a fight that people would be into. .But David Haye is the guy for Klitschko because there is too many intriguing storylines for this fight. Klitschko has not forgotten about the picture that shows Haye holding up his severed head in a British magazine. This fight looks to be very personal to the Klitschko family and there is no way in hell they are going to pass this fight up. Haye can make all the demands he wants Wladimir will surely make it worth it whenever he does step into the ring with him. It would make for great if it does happen.
Score: 3 for 4
Round 5: If their fight would have been in the US, the Khan-Barrera fight would have been stopped earlier and not after four rounds where it went to the scorecards.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - I don't want to say that anything shady was going on but I get the feeling that the fight would have been stopped probably in the first or second round here in the States. A lot of marketing and money has been put into Khan, and specifically the event in Manchester and to have had it stopped and called a no-contest would have let a lot of people down. Khan was winning the fight, but the cut was no worse in the fifth round than it was in any of the four previous rounds. Khan may have won the fight in the long run as he was out-hustling Barrera, using his speed to land his combinations but there's no other reason to have let it continue until exactly the fifth round aside from going to the scorecards.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - Go ahead Ramon, you can say it. There was something smelly going in Manchester that night and I am not afraid to say it. Just a week ago, Robert Guerrero got a quick cut and there was no hesitation to stop the fight right then and there even though Guerrero chose to quit. The ref did not like the cut on Robert's face and had no problem stopping it.
If this fight was in the USA, there is no question on my mind this fight would have stopped right after the first round. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why they did this. Khan is coming off being humiliated by Breidis Prescott in 54 seconds last September in style in that bout. There was no chance in hell they were going to stop another Khan in the first round and have it be a no contest. While Khan looked very good, you do have to wonder what would have been had Barrera not been blinded by that awful cut. And you also have to be concerned about the obvious home cooking for Khan that the fight would not be stopped until the fifth round had started so Khan would win rather than get a no contest. We could have had a riot on our hands.
After the butt in the first round, blood poured down Barrera's face for the remainder of the fight. Between rounds, his corner would clean him up but within a few seconds of the next round beginning, his face was again covered in a mask of red and blood was trickling into his left eye. The doctor looked at the wound during the fourth round, but the damn fight still went on?? It wasn't until the fight was official in the next round that the bout was stopped and sent to the scorecards. And that my friends is complete ‘BS' at its finest.
Score: 4 for 5
Round 6: You think the US media is over-exaggerating in their fear to go to cover the upcoming Top Rank card in Tijuana.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - Listen, there's been and there's going to continue to be shady activities going on in Tijuana as we've heard of kidnappings, murders and drug related violence. To me, it sounds like other major cities in the US, which will remain nameless. I've been to Tijuana on many occasions and without any incident. It's not like you cross the border and suddenly the locals smell US blood and add you to their target list. Sure there's some slight concerns as when you visit any foreign city and once as populated as Tijuana. I also understand that is doesn't have the best image in the world but let's face it, neither does a lot of other cities and that doesn't seem stop the media from making their rounds in those places. The Top Rank card looks pretty good...just go enjoy yourselves, enjoy some good food and take a chill pill.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I am going to have to go on the opposite just for the basic that I have agreed with you about all of boxing portion of this Fact or Fiction as this is a strictly political view here. With all the drugs and killings going in the Mexican borders, it would be normal for anyone from anywhere would have some fear going down to a city like Tijuana. I understand that this violence has happened for a long time in Mexico and just as well as other American cities. All this stuff going on has to remind people of the movie "Traffic" but only in real life. Only this time there is no Michael Douglas saving his daughter from the Crack or Catherine Zeta Jones making cocaine deals to save her husband. People have been kidnapped in the USA and have been transported down to Mexico. You can't be anymore feared than that.
Final Score: 4 for 6Apparently, Jonathan and I won't be visiting Tijuana together nor ask that Angulo-Kirkland happen now.
That'll do it for this week's FoF, but we want to know what you think? Let us know how you see things…Fact or Fiction?
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I was disappointed in the Ghost. I understand that head butts are a part of boxing. They will always happen forever and that is why it is called "accidental". However, I thought he should have gotten through the round and let his cut man work on the cut. I know it was bad, but I think you have to at least try to stop the bleeding and give it another shot. It looked like he quit almost immediately. It was almost comical when Guerrero told the doctor that he could not see and the doctor looked like he did not believe him saying "You can't see??" And before you know it, the fight was called off. I have seen boxers fight through a lot worse cuts then what Guerrero had and he gave himself no chance to continue .It was a puzzling decision to say the least and I believe that the Ghost did not like how the fight was going against Yordan. Yordan looked real good in the small time there as he look to have won the first round and part of that second. Guerrero looked like he did not want to take the chance of the fight going four rounds and leaving it up to the judges. In short, Guerrero to not continue was a very weak finish.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FICTION - I think this fight would be a brutal war. Both guys are still prospects with big time potential. They both have raw power and menacing seek and destroy styles. Angulo fights a mature style of power boxing. In his last fight, Angulo looked vulnerable against Cosme Rivera in that first round but came back and administered a beating for the next four rounds until a ringside official climbed into the ring and instructed the ref to stop the fight in the fifth. Kirkland reminds of a mini Mike Tyson. He is tough, well prepared, and wants to hurt someone. How well he takes a really big puncher's punch, I have no idea. He needs to work a little on his all around game but looks like one of the bright stars of boxing right now. A fight between these two guys seems like a logical choice. I think Kirkland vs. Angulo will be a barn burner if it does happen. This would be a defining fight. I feel the winner of this fight would feel like a legit challenge for the vacated IBF title belt.
Jonathan Yaghoubi: FACT - Well at this moment, this statement seems to be a no brainer. In both his losses, he started of real well and looked like it was going to be his fight. But both times he has gashed midway through the fight and has completely melted under the pressure of his cuts. He was in control of the Campbell fight as he looked to be winning the first 5 rounds but after being cut in Round 6, he lost every round after that and was not the same fighter as he looked lost and powerless. He got off to a great start against Marquez and looked his youth was going to overpower the older Marquez. But Diaz would get cut midway through round 5, and that was the beginning of the end for him. Marquez looked like a machine when he saw the cut over Diaz and would go on to terminate Diaz in spectacular fashion. If Diaz never got cut like that in both fights, good chance he wins both fights. But there is no way else to put it, if you cut Diaz, you have a great chance to win. Until he proves otherwise, that should be the game plan for every Juan Diaz opponent in the future.
Ramon Aranda: FICTION - While I agree that Klitschko should be upset that the Haye camp is still not agreeing with the terms for a fight, the ONLY reason I don't think Klitschko should move on is simply because there's no better fight out there for himself or the fans. Quite frankly, a bout against any other heavyweight right now would have no fan fare except possibly against Chris Arreola who's already set to fight in a few weeks.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - I don't want to say that anything shady was going on but I get the feeling that the fight would have been stopped probably in the first or second round here in the States. A lot of marketing and money has been put into Khan, and specifically the event in Manchester and to have had it stopped and called a no-contest would have let a lot of people down. Khan was winning the fight, but the cut was no worse in the fifth round than it was in any of the four previous rounds. Khan may have won the fight in the long run as he was out-hustling Barrera, using his speed to land his combinations but there's no other reason to have let it continue until exactly the fifth round aside from going to the scorecards.
Ramon Aranda: FACT - Listen, there's been and there's going to continue to be shady activities going on in Tijuana as we've heard of kidnappings, murders and drug related violence. To me, it sounds like other major cities in the US, which will remain nameless. I've been to Tijuana on many occasions and without any incident. It's not like you cross the border and suddenly the locals smell US blood and add you to their target list. Sure there's some slight concerns as when you visit any foreign city and once as populated as Tijuana. I also understand that is doesn't have the best image in the world but let's face it, neither does a lot of other cities and that doesn't seem stop the media from making their rounds in those places. The Top Rank card looks pretty good...just go enjoy yourselves, enjoy some good food and take a chill pill.
