411 Games Fact or Fiction 7.13.09: Little Big Planet, BlazBlue, No More Heroes, Modern Warfare 2, More
Posted by Drew Robbins on 07.13.2009
Is it time we see something with more substantial than downloadable costume packs in LBP? Should the revelation that No More Heroes will branch out to other consoles be cause for excitement? Is this constant changing of names in games such as Modern Warfare 2 and Bioshock 2 getting a tad bit annoying? 411's Joe Roche and Armando Rodriguez debate these topics and more in this week's edition of Games Fact or Fiction!
It's that time of week again, time for another exciting round of Fact or Fiction, and without further ado, let's meet this week's contestants.
Joe Roche - It's a good thing we have Roche on staff, being a lawyer and all, we can always rest assured that he would defend us if we ever wound up in legal trouble…right? When he isn't fantasizing about being Phoenix Wright, Roche puts together The Full Circle, a weekly gathering of news from the Microsoft side of the industry. He also helps out around the boxing section.
Armando Rodriguez - I made a mistake last time when introducing Armando when saying he was the coolest named man on 411. It had completely slipped my mind that we had someone with the name "Sam Pow," so I'm sorry Armando, but your title has been revoked. However, this disappointing defeat hasn't stopped Armando from putting together The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly News Report every week. He also tends to be a weekly star in the 411 Games Top 5. This week was platformers, you had best check it out! If you don't enjoy a good platformer, then you ain't no friend of mine…
1.) You'd like to see more out of Little Big Planet DLC than just costumes and level parts.
Joe Roche: FICTION - This answer is more a by-product of the fact that I do not own a PS3, have no intention of owning Little Big Planet, and as such honestly don't care what type of DLC is released for the game. I also don't think that you'd need anything more then costumes and level parts as DLC, because once those things are released you can hypothetically download hundreds of new levels that
come about as a result of this new DLC.
Armando Rodriguez: FACT - As one of LBP's biggest supporters here in 411mania, I have to say DOUBLE-FACT. Encouraging people to create is nice and one of the best parts of LBP, but why not more full level DLC's or mini-expansion packs like the Metal Gear Pack? I have stayed away from paying for skins because I feel it is a rip-off. Level parts are Ok and gives us more options and for $3 or so they are good value. But it is time we get another "killer" DLC like the Metal Gear pack.
Score: 0 for 1
2.) Fighting games, such as recently release BlazBlue, should not be sold at full-price.
Joe Roche: FICTION - Why the hell not? Because they're 2D fighters that some people would claim lack the sort of depth that a full retail priced game should entail? I'd argue that games like the recently released Damnation offer FAR less value as a full retail game then BlazBlue which while short on options may still provide longer play-life then some other retail games that ship with 6 hours of gameplay total. My personal feelings are that I would never pay full price for a fighting game, but that's not because I don't think you can play them to the point of getting value for the price, I just don't particularly care for fighting games.
Armando Rodriguez: FICTION - I know this is going to hurt Mark, but I say fiction. GOOD fighting games have all the right in the world to be sold for $60, otherwise we could also argue that all First-Person Shooters be sold under $60 because they are mostly the same, or that all sports games with yearly entries like Madden should be sold for under $60 because they are largely the same. Come to think of it, I kinda support the cheaper price for sports titles. In the particular case of BlazBlue I agree that it should have been sold for $40 because it is the type of quirky fighter that does not appeal to the masses and would benefit from a cheaper price to try and create a following. However, I disagree that all fighting games should be cheaper.
Score: 1 for 2
3.) Its great to see that No More Heroes will be branching out from the Wii.
Joe Roche: FICTION - Wow I'm being negative here today. No More Heroes is a pretty fun game, and as far as Wii games go it's one that I would suggest everyone at least gives a chance. However, until
proven otherwise I have no confidence that the game would translate over to the other consoles. It's success on the Wii comes from how it works well with the console and doesn't dig deep into things that are peripheral to the main story. If you just did a port of No More Heroes on the Xbox 360 or PS3 people would never give it a second though. A No More Heroes 3 on one of the HD consoles is going to have to involve more then pretty graphics, it'll have to be a totally redesigned game, and until I see it working with my own two eyes I am afraid that it'll just get lost in the shuffle as another game on the Xbox 360/PS3 instead of a standout title on the Wii.
Armando Rodriguez: FACT - What little I played of No More Heroes was enough to convince me of the game's awesomeness and how cool it would be to have it on other consoles. The Wii is a very limited platform in terms of what it can do when you compare it with the PS3 and 360. Therefore if developers really want to take No More Heroes to the next level they need the power of the 360 and PS3 to do so. Obviously it will have better graphics and bigger levels. It's time for No More Heroes to leave the Wii and come to where the big boys play.
Score: 1 for 3
Switch!
4.) Something will come of the recent Smash Bros conspiracy.
Armando Rodriguez: FACT - I think someone screwed up and said something they should not have said *YET* and that's why they inmediatly denied it. But I do think a new Smash Bros. is in development and I do think the good professor would fit in nicely with the rest of the characters. Smash Bros. is a guaranteed million seller and I think this might be a hint towards a Nintendo DS version. I said it first folks!
Joe Roche: FICTION - I'm only saying Fiction because I don't feel comfortable calling this a conspiracy. For this to have been a conspiracy I would need to see some type of cover-up from Nintendo
which as far as I know has not occurred. This was an official "tweet" from an official Nintendo outlet – the Professor Layton twitter account is run by Nintendo so there is at least a chance that this was their round-about way of dropping hints about a new Smash Brothers game. Until Nintendo deletes the Professor Layton twitter account, and denies any new Smash Brothers games this isn't a conspiracy at all – it's just a lame way to "reveal" some details about a potential new Smash Brothers, with new characters. As a side note – would anyone like to wager on how Mega Man and Professor Layton can be evenly matched in Smash Brothers?
Score: 1 for 4 I would mark if Layton got into Smash Bros. somehow…
And for those wondering just what the hell I'm talking about, IGN has the story.
5.) Modern Warfare 2 once again bares the Call of Duty name, this constant name-changing trend is getting on your nerves.
Armando Rodriguez: FACT - If only because I believe that having removed the Call of Duty name from the title was a dumb move. Now they seem to have realized that and are putting it back. You see, Call of Duty is an established brand and just seeing the name in the box sells titles. I know what the majority of readers are thinking: "But everyone who played the first Modern Warfare knows what this is about". Yes, you are right, as always my super smart readers who know everything! But what about those who skipped COD 4? What about those who don't know what the hell is "Modern Warfare"? I took two marketing classes as part of my college studies and you ALWAYS have to assume that the buyer knows jack about what you are selling and you have to make it easy for him to understand what he is getting and convince himself to purchase it. Call of Duty is the established brand name. Modern Warfare is a spin-off of that established brand name. To make an example: If they called it Modern Warfare 2 only and the buyer knows jack about the game, he might take the time to flip the box over and check the screenshots and stuff in the back of the box and make a connection that leads to the purchase. However, if they call it "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" the buyer immediately makes that connection once he see's the name of the established brand in front of the package. I guess it sounds stupid and simple, but that's how businesses move their stuff and it is one of the most basic principles of marketing. Class dismissed!
Joe Roche: FICTION - I'm going for it – a full Fiction-fest. I could not care less about the constant flip flop on the Call of Duty moniker issue. As a matter of fact I've been pretty vocal that I felt this was going to happen in the end, especially after reports started to surface that the game would perform worse in retail sales without the Call of Duty label. I don't care if this game comes out with the label CODIVMW: DUECE I'm still picking it up at launch and I am comfortable in saying that I'll enjoy it with or without the Call of Duty name attached.
Score: 1 for 5
6.) A new Mechwarrior is coming out, but lets be honest, we all just want another Mech Assault.
Armando Rodriguez: FICTION - I do like Mech Assault, but I have been waiting for another MechWarrior for years. MechWarrior 2 was my first experience with hardcore online play and joining a clan, so it has a special place in my heart. As long as they make it for the PS3 with at least 24-player online and add plenty of cool mechs, maps and customization options, I will be extremely happy.
Joe Roche: FICTION - A perfect six for six on fictions. I haven't wanted to play a Mech Assault, or Mechwarrior game in about a decade and I'm not about to wish for anything from the series at this point. I wish I had something else to add but in my mind the landscape of video games has gone so far past where it was when I cared about either Mech Assault, or Mechwarrior that I can't even be bothered to think about them anymore.
Our contestants finish this week with an astonishing, commendable, 1 for 6 effort. Special ups to Roche for going completely fiction with the column. Just imagine, Armando, one more fact and we would have done what I've always wanted, an 0 for 6 Fact or Fiction. Your disagreement is delicious.
That's all for this week, I'll be back next week with two more competitors, six new topics, and a whole lot of disagreement, I hope! Now to return to the regularly scheduled waiting for my Prince of Persia trilogy to come in the mail…
To reiterate my opinion on the matter Armando is completely right in stating that sports games have no right retailing for $60 when applying my logic regarding fighting games. The 2K series has it right during that year or two period where their games were $20 *I believe it was 2004 when the 2K5 games were coming out*.
I don't have anything more to add to the situation other than what Todd and I *and I think Drew* were talking about in last week's B3yond and it's becoming clear this is a hot subject. I am also residing in the camp that all games in general cost too much money now days. Retailing a game for $40 new would in theory screw developers out of a third of their revenue but who's to say that a drop in price wouldn't cause in 33% increase in sales, if not more which would then make the company more money than charging $60. There are more economic variables involved but the potential to make more money by reaching a larger audience at a cheaper price is there.
Posted By: The Salms (Registered) on July 12, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Thats right! Coolest named man on 411! Thats definitely a step up from "that dude who writes GAME POW".
Posted By: Sam Pow (Registered) on July 13, 2009 at 12:02 AM
Yea, NMH should leave Wii to play with the "big boys"...who's winning the console race right now???
Posted By: Guest#1144 (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 02:37 AM
I have a suggestion for this column - try getting writers who have more to say than 'I dont care' or 'I havent played this game' to most of the questions and we actually might have something to read and discuss in the comments section. Either that or ask questions better suited to your guests.
Posted By: Guest#9481 (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 04:45 AM
I am so sick of hearing everyone say that [this game] or [that game] would be SOO much better if it wasn't a Wii game, when for the most part, if a game isn't some kind of shooter, it won't sell that much more on the HD consoles anyway. Due to development costs for the 360 and PS3, it is damn near impossible to make niche games on those consoles and expect to make any kind of profit. That's why so many PS360 games cater to the lowest common denominator... those are typically the only games that make any real money.
MadWorld is a good example of that. Yes it only 66,000 copies on the Wii, but considering its audience, that's a GOOD thing. If it sold that many on the PS360, that's a BAD thing. And besides, Bayonetta looks like a FAR more interesting game than MadWorld is, and the Wii can't handle that game at all. Let's see if people will actually buy it, because most of the Platinum Games guys worked at Clover before this, and very few of those games actually did real big business (I think Viewtiful Joe 1 and Okami and THAT'S IT).
As a fighting game player, I totally agree that $60 is way too much for a fighting game, ESPECIALLY one that isn't Street Fighter or Tekken. Capcom and Namco can get away with doing things like that, because their brand names trump every other fighting game on the market, but SNK, as much as I love King of Fighters, is not doing themselves any favors charging $60 for KOF12 when it has virtually NONE of the extra options that any of the other fighting games released this year have. That game shouldn't retail for more than $30 max, especially if they wanna sell a lot of it, because once people find out how little there is to the game (and once 360 owners find out that clans are PS3 only), it'll come back to stores in droves. There's a reason they were only charging $20 for their fighting games on PS2.
Posted By: Shaukat (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 07:32 AM
Great column as always guys. Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Guest#1709 (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 08:52 AM
If you're interested, there are some great deals on Wii games at http://TheWiiGameShop.co.uk
both new & pre-owned. I find that buying slightly older games combats the exagerated cost of the newly released ones. There's games from 2008 going for between £10 and £15 there. If you don't mind staying even just a couple of months behind the scene, you can pick up some real bargains as prices drop and pre-owned come on to the market...
Posted By: Jim (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 09:42 AM
BlazBlue sold out of the PS3 version, and the 360 version isn't doing bad at all.
There are more people playing this game than you guys think, trust me. Just last night I had 8 people over and all of them owned the game in one way or another. Aksys has a pretty decent following.
Posted By: spacefight (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 09:47 AM
2.) Fighting games, such as recently release BlazBlue, should not be sold at full-price.
If you look at it strictly as what is offered, what game is going to give you more of an experience? A FPS title, or a fighter? With an FPS title, they are all basically the same, yes, but deep stories and branching areas make it more replayable. With a fighting game, no matter what innovation they can come up with for the genre, it is always going to be beat up guys fight the boss and done. Don't get me wrong, I love fighting games. Absolutely love them! But I would be okay with them all being released via XBOX Arcade, for $15-$20. Do the comapanies making the game have a right to want the full $60? Absolutely, just like we have a right to think that $60 is a bit steep for that particular style of game.
One thing this conversation opens up that nobody has addressed: Should deeper games cost more? Could you see yourself paying different prices for different genres?
Posted By: Todd Vote (Registered) on July 13, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Wow, thanks for showing up Joe. You sure contributed a lot of meaningful and well thought discussion to this week's FoF...
Posted By: Archer (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 01:32 PM
"BlazBlue sold out of the PS3 version, and the 360 version isn't doing bad at all.
There are more people playing this game than you guys think, trust me. Just last night I had 8 people over and all of them owned the game in one way or another. Aksys has a pretty decent following."
Yeah they probably did sell out. No store had more than one or two copies max in my area. When the NPDs come out for June/July I guarantee BlazBlue will be no where to be found.
It's a fine game but jesus don't get ahead of yourself. Just because the staff of Aksys came over to your house last night doesn't mean the game sold well.
Posted By: The Salms (Registered) on July 13, 2009 at 01:48 PM
Here goes Mark, making more insults to stuff he doesn't like. I'm sorry, but Aksys isn't going to make millions of copies of a game that they KNOW won't sell that many copies. Neither can Atlus or any other company who doesn't make FPSs. So yeah, let's say they only sell 150,000 copies of Blazblue (hypothetically). If they only MADE that many copies, then it's a success. I'm sorry that Blazblue isn't Modern Warfare 2 or Uncharted or anything like that "The Salms". Go play Target Terror, douche.
Posted By: Shaukat (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 02:06 PM
http://www.blazblue.com/?p=78
Nice try, Salmela. It's selling, and selling quite well beyond the expectations of Aksys, and that's what is important, not putting up fucking Halo or Mario numbers.
NPD's mean fuck all when it comes to being a good game anyways. I figured being the Sony guy you would know that.
Posted By: spacefight (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 04:26 PM
how dare you get my hopes up for a smash brothers DS title. there is no evidence whatsoever to support that claim so damn you for putting the idea in the forefront of my head
but come on, why the fuck isn't there a smash brothers on the DS this has been pissing me off for almost 2 years. when i decided to go with the DS, it became my first nintendo system ever (i am 24 by the way so i have lived through them all). i decided on going nintendo for 4 things, mario kart, mario party, pokemon (fuck off i like it), and super smash brothers. The DS has come through on the first 3 now what about smash brothers on DS,
NINTENDO MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!!
Posted By: stronelis (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 04:45 PM
Also as an addendum, how are fighting games not worth the $60? I'd argue I get MORE money out of the fighting games I own, especially Street Fighter 3:Third Strike and Guilty Gear XX:#Reload, because we play them for hours on end when I have people at my house. It's all we play. So yeah, $60 is worth it to those of us who play the games with others, just like COD and Halo are worth it to those who play those games constantly.
Posted By: spacefight (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 05:18 PM
Mark and Todd are talking out of their asses again. I already put in OVER 25 hours into BlazBlue. Mark, you can look at my trophy list for BlazBlue, the trophy is unlocked. The majority of it came from online play! The P2P online is ded sexy on both consoles. Man, I love this game..... Also, I wasn't really a fan of GG until recently. I can try and play GGXXACP for the PS2, but it feels cumbersome in comparison to BB.
Posted By: David (Guest) on July 13, 2009 at 05:56 PM
Alright, I agree with Mark that fighting games aren't worth the $60, but for me that is just a personal preference. I'm not too big into the genre.
But to be honest, I don't think most games are worth the $60 I shell out for them. I loved Ghostbusters and UFC, but looking back I'm not sure they were worth the $60 price tag they were given. The only game I've played this generation that felt worth $60 was the Orange Box. That has great multiplayer and great solo play as well. As fun as fighting games are online, the single player end of the deal just doesn't hold up. Playing against an AI gets old and boring pretty quickly.
Its bogus to pay $60 when only half of the game is really worth the trouble. Look at Street Fighter II Turbo HD. Not a great single player, but fun online. How much was it? $15.
Posted By: Drew Robbins (Registered) on July 13, 2009 at 07:07 PM
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