Four Player Co-Op 08.05.09: Sonic, Sony, Slipping, Summer, and Sales

Posted by Rod Oracheski on 08.05.2009

Do you believe Sega will make Sonic a strong franchise again? When's Sony dropping the price of the PS3 anyway? Does Dark Void slipping into 2010 really mean better sales? Does a rebate on XBLA games mean more sales? Can we kiss Game Stop goodbye forever? All that and more this week in Four Player Co-Op.

Rod Oracheski has joined the game.
Todd Vote has joined the game.
Sean Garmer has joined the game.
Chris Lansdell has joined the game.
Sean Garmer has disconnected.
Ramon Aranda has joined the game.

1 - Sega has promised the quality of Sonic games will be improved, but says it's a matter of being fixed "over time" and not instantly. Keeping in mind that they made similar claims of being concerned about the quality of their Sonic titles prior to the release of Sonic Unleashed, do you have any faith left for the speedy blue hedgehog's future endeavors? If not, help out - what's the one change Sonic games need to make to get back to being on your radar?

Todd Vote

Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of faith left that these guys can make a great Sonic game. They have said time and again that they recognize the problems they are practically creating with each new Sonic game. Yet, they continue to move in the wrong direction.

The sad part about all of this is that certain comments made by Sean Ratcliffe would serve to show that Sega apparently knows what needs to be done: Interestingly, I think Sonic Unleashed was very well received by the kids. There was some talk about the werehog aspect, the slower pacing and more combat-oriented gameplay, but when we go out and test this stuff and sit down with the consumers, kids actually like that. I think older, die-hard Sega fans who grew up with the franchise and the first Sonic the Hedgehog associate Sonic more with 2-D side-scrolling super fast, and they liked the daytime gameplay, but when it came to the slower paced gameplay they were fairly critical of that, and that's fine – they have their opinions,"

See there, the part in bold? It may be an opinion that a return to 2D is what the series needs. But, can anybody name an honest to goodness fun Sonic title that was done in 3D? Go back to 2D, stop trying to get $60 for a box of crap, release them via the three console's download services. Make them arcade games. Sonic used to be such a beloved character; I think most of us would be fine with a return to 2D for the franchise. If you are so gung ho on keeping the 3D look, why not go the Street Fighter Route, and have everything look 3D on a 2D plane?

Ratcliffe seems to realize that the 2D games are doing well on the digital download services, so why not try that route with a brand new 2D title?

Chris Lansdell

You know, I never really got into Sonic. Not because I thought they were bad games or anything, more because I never had a Master System, Genesis or Dreamcast when Sonic was big and I was interested. By the time I did buy these systems I had "outgrown" platformers. My son LOVED Sonic and the Secret Rings, but he's eight. I think with Unleashed they tried to hard to make adults and/or teens care about the game, which turned off some teens.

If I recall correctly, Sonic was popular because it did things Mario didn't do: more colorful, faster, more engaging in some parts. Platformers in general are on a downturn and Sega not having a system with which to bundle Sonic may also be hurting. I think they can fix this by going back to the roots of the game. Don't try and make a 3D action platformer or use the Sonic characters in other games. Just make a good old 2D platformer with lush graphics, a HUGE world and all sorts of fun. Aim it at tweens. Then Bob's your uncle, instant recovery. You can't be all things to all men, unless you're Anne Hathaway. She can be anything she wants to me.

[Editors note: Anne Hathaway will continue to "be" a minimum of 150 feet away from Chris Lansdell at all times, as ordered by an all too lenient judge after Chris' latest incident.]

Ramon Aranda

I'll say this right off the bat. If they're referring to a fully 3D game, then I honestly have zero faith. On the other hand, if they're looking into a 2D game or one that's a hybrid of the two like we've seen on XBLA games, then I'd give them the benefit of the doubt. Point blank, any Sonic game in 3D has sucked major nuts while the 2D offerings on the Nintendo DS have been very enjoyable.

Rod Oracheski

The way I see it, companies have a sort of unspoken 'credibility capital' than they earn through their releases and spend with their announcements. A company that delivers on their promises more often than not accumulates this credibility 'credit' and you can believe what they tell you.

Sega is not that company. After years of hit and miss releases - and more 'miss' than 'hit' on that ledger, with what seems like annual promises to do a little better next time, I can't see how anyone believes Sega PR anymore - at least where Sonic is concerned.

If you want to improve the quality of the games, that's great. Everyone wants you to, and I mean EVERYONE. But stop talking about it and start delivering.

The one change I'd make is to abandon 3D, at least for now, and churn out a couple classic-style Sonic games. Make them 2.5D if you want, but keep us moving left to right (or right to left) doing some platforming, a few switch puzzles, and then 10 seconds of blinding speed. Keep that repeating for a couple hours, maybe throw in a jumping- or speed-based boss or two, and release it on XBLA and PSN for $20-30.

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2 - Sony's financial report was largely a gloomy one, with only the PS2 showing marginal uptick in sales (actually outselling the PS3 by a half-million units) and software sales down across the board. With everyone harping on price cuts, when do you think we'll see it, how much is it going to be, and how much of a difference is it going to make? Bonus followup! Everyone is after Sony to drop the price, but the Wii has been the same price for almost three years. When is Nintendo's price cut coming?

Todd Vote

I think the price cut for the PS3 needed to happen at the beginning of this year. Sony had a chance to get a fresh start. They have a lot of great games on the way, and some good buzz coming out of E3. But they continually shoot themselves in the foot with their own arrogance. To me, the arrogance stems from the huge success the PS2 is still experiencing. Sony knows that they have a superior machine on their hands. I have an Xbox 360, and I am not afraid to say Sony's machine is better. But what good is a great machine, and great games, if nobody is playing them. Realistically, I think we will see a PS3 price cut around the holidays, but no later than March of 2010.

As for Nintendo, it looks as if the Wii sales have finally started to drop off a bit, but their problem is not so much cost of the system, but a supposed lack of games for the core fans. Nintendo is the only company that makes money on every Wii sold, so a price cut is not out of the realm of possibility for them. However, I think as long as sales stay strong, we shouldn't expect much of a price cut on the Wii. Unless Nintendo panics about the slight drop in sales.

Chris Lansdell

Last question first: it isn't. The Wii is selling just fine, is not $400, and doesn't need a price cut.

Sony, however, are in a position with which they are not familiar: they're losing. Playstation beat Dreamcast. PS2 and XBox was close to a wash. PSP made Nintendo rethink handhelds. The PS3 is…suffering. For crying out loud the system's predecessor is STILL outselling it! Sony has been adamant that there isn't much room to drop the price, and given everything that the PS3 does I can well believe that (I've broken that down in previous 4PC columns).

The problem now is that they pretty much have to. Hardware has traditionally been a big margin generator for retailers (or at least it was when I worked in the industry), so Sony are going to need to take the hit and either sell at cost or cut some corners. I cannot see the base unit going far below $350, but if that happens I reckon it will be sudden, and either on or just before Black Friday. Is it too late? Probably not, especially if they ever sort out this backwards compatibility nonsense.

Ramon Aranda

Sony should price cut their system for this holiday season. They are in major financial trouble and I'm hearing they've begun ramping up their production of units so they may be getting ready for it. That being said, I'm only expecting it to be about $50 which isn't bad mind you but not $100. As you pointed out, the PS2 is outselling the PS3 which can't do anything positive to Sony's confidence on the system and really, gamers just need an excuse to buy one aside from being a good blu-ray player.

As for the Wii, don't expect a price cut until at least 2010...there's just no need to yet. Gamers continue to gobble this system up and until Nintendo sees a significant decrease in sales, don't expect a price reduction. We'll get colored Wii's before we see a price drop.

Rod Oracheski

The price drop has to be this year - probably announced at Gamescom or TGS - but it just has to be in effect for the Christmas buying season. I thought for sure Sony would drop it to coincide with Killzone 2 to try and spike sales through the summer though, so there's every chance I could be wrong and we'll see another bleak winter for people who want a PS3 but won't pay $400+ for one.

What difference a price drop will make depends on how much it is. Obviously the cheaper the machine is, the better sales will be and reports indicate Sony has dropped manufacturing costs by 70% so they could go for a $150 drop to $250 and maybe still eke out a small profit. On the other hand, Sony just reported a loss of $407,587,274 for April-June of 2009, so can they really afford to drop it as much as they could? I'm guessing we'll see a middle-ground drop of $75-100 and yet another 'PS3 equals value' round of comparison charts.

As for Nintendo, they should have dropped the price already but consumers aren't exactly putting pressure on them to do it so why bother? They'll keep raking in profits until the steadily slumping sales hit some threshold they aren't comfortable with, then hit us with the 'not coming here' black model and get a sales spike.

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3 - Capcom recently announced they're delaying Dark Void into the early 2010 release schedule to avoid what they called a "crowded" Fall 2009 slate of releases. Let's take a quick look at other 'early 2010 games' shall we: Alan Wake, Aliens vs Predator, Bayonetta, Bioshock 2, Dante's Inferno, Darksiders, Dead Rising 2, Final Fantasy XIII, God of War 3, Gran Turismo 5, Lost Planet 2, and Mass Effect 2. Is Dark Void going to release 'better' against that competition than it would in 2009? Do you think the industry, recently committing to releasing games throughout the year, should consider flipping their calendar to months like June or July instead? What non-traditional month would you think would be best for games to release in, and why?

Todd Vote

Yeah, releasing against all of the titles you listed sounds like much better business. Seriously, what are they thinking? Releasing a new IP against that lot? I have to say I think the game would have faired better in the holiday season where it stood a chance of being picked up by random, clueless people gift shopping as well as the fans that are anticipating the title. Dropping it in 2010 against the titles you listed will leave Dark Void clawing for any sort of recognition it will desperately need.

On the non-traditional release dates, I say June, July, or even August. My online cohorts and I have been desperately clamoring for a new multi-player title. We can only handle so much Call of Duty 4. That's not to say that there are no good games released in the Summer, but I think we could stand to have a few more.

Chris Lansdell

This is the problem with releasing games at peak buying periods: you run into a lot of competition. Dark Void is going to do fairly well no matter when, but is that list of games in 2010 really that much weaker than the late 2009 list? I see several games there that are going to be huge (GT5, Bioshock 2, Dante's Inferno, FFXIII…) so it's a risk either way.

The problem with non-traditional months is that they are non-traditional for a reason. Who has money in February after the Christmas spending starts to take its toll? Who's around in July and August? The only time frame that might be tappable is late June/early July as a graduation/exams present. You might be able to do something in the summer months with all the teens working summer jobs, but they spend that on their iTunes and their emo and all that other junk the kids are into these days. Now GET OFFA MY LAWN!

Ramon Aranda

I think Dark Void just fell into the abyss once again. I have to point out that we had a chance to check it out at E3 and it wasn't half bad. The decision to go for 2010 is fine and dandy as I do think that the holiday season is usually grossly over saturated with games. People only have so much money! Unfortunately for Capcom, though the game seems pretty good, the 'early 2010' release window is just as stocked if not more stocked than holiday 2009 now which is a tough break.

In relation to release windows, I'm all for releasing big games throughout the year. Forcing gamers to pick and choose during specific times of the year is a disservice to them and to the publishers who take a hit in terms of sales when gamers can't buy them all.

Rod Oracheski

I think it's going to prove a mistake to have shifted Dark Void, assuming it wasn't done for any quality reasons. Stacked or not, the Christmas buying season accounts for an overwhelming chunk of annual video game sales and I don't believe Dark Void is going to do better against still-strong competition in a weaker selling period. Plus the game looks good enough to have competed against the Fall lineup, though Capcom would have to shell out for some advertising to avoid being overlooked.

Maybe Capcom just didn't want to spend the money when they feel they've got a product that can move units regardless of when it hits. Tough to doubt them, when they're one of the few companies who turned a significant profit in that April-June period.

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4 - Microsoft recently announced that anyone picking up all five Summer of Arcade releases will get $10 refunded back to their account. Will this make you more likely to pick up all the titles if there was one you weren't sure you wanted? Would you like to see this kind of thing extend to the service as a whole, possibly with 'value packs' of games where you'd buy four or five and get a rebate - or buy four and get to choose one from a list for free?

Todd Vote

It's certainly not going to make me purchase the games any sooner, or purchase one I wasn't sure about. The rebate is nice, and I think it is really cool that Microsoft is doing this. But is it really like cash back if the refund is done with MS points that I, in turn, have no choice but to spend on more stuff from Microsoft?

Don't get me wrong; this is a nice bonus for someone who was planning on buying all the games, but I'd much rather see individual discounts on certain games, and DLC. They have done this in the past, but it always seems like the discount is for things that nobody is interested in. I'd be okay with value pack gaming as well. If I could pick up all three original Sonic titles, for $10 or so, I may do that.

Chris Lansdell

Sure it would!

But the problem is that I'm unlikely to find more than one I want. If this were an ongoing promotion (buy 4 get one free, for example) I'd be far more inclined to make purchases, but as it is I have bought precisely one game from XBLA…Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo. I imagine I'll be getting Marvel vs Capcom II, but very little else has caught my eye.

Too busy playing Prototype…

Ramon Aranda

I'd like to see this happen more often but I personally won't purchase them all this time around. I'm currently quite happy playing Splosion Man which is in the process of being reviewed.

I think the deal will work though. When it all comes down to it, it's all about the games, so if the games being offered are worthy, we'll see people buy them, regardless of a bargain deal. Kudos to Microsoft though for trying to save us a few bucks, assuming you were going to buy those game anyway.

Rod Oracheski

It makes me a little more likely to pick up the entire slate of titles, but they'd have gotten the same impulse by just making the games cheaper across the board - like happened with the Turtles in Time remake. Trials HD, for example, sounds interesting and looks cool, but shelling out $15 for it seems a little steep.

I guess that's why they give us demos for every release, but that better be a great demo.

Having 'value packs' as a sale would be good, even if they bundle a bunch from one developer or publisher and put a sale on those. A blanket 'buy one or two, get one half-price' would be be best. Though they do some bargains for Gold users, I don't know why they don't do more sales like Steam has. Knock the price down on something dramatically for a couple days to get more people interested. If it's an older title or DLC, what's it hurt?

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5 - Though they're breaking into the full game download service side of things with the August 11th update, Microsoft doesn't believe that simultaneous releases at digital and retail are really in the picture for the foreseeable future. Discuss!

Todd Vote

I agree with this. Right now Microsoft is charging an arm and a testicle for the 120 gig hard drive, and like it or not a lot of people just can't afford that. I think before we see games selling simultaneously, there will be a method put into place to make sure all gamers can afford the memory it will take to save these games.

The download thing Microsoft currently employs, where you can download a title to the hard drive so you don't have to spin the disc shows most games clocking in at 5+ gigs, let's call games in the future 10 gigs for arguments sake. Ten gigs a pop with a 120 gig hard drive means you can own 12 games, and you wouldn't have room for anything else on your box.

Chris Lansdell

I'd agree here.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if I can download a game or buy it in a store, I'm buying it. Why waste HDD space on a game that I'm likely to complete in 2 weeks, and then not be able to do anything with it?

At least if I buy it I can trundle on over to EB Games and trade it in, and downloading full games will cram that HDD in a hurry.

Ramon Aranda

I'm all for digital releases but I personally don't care much for simultaneous ones with retail versions. I'd rather have the physical medium as I can take it wherever I want, sell it, trade it, lend it, and so forth.

Plus if my system breaks down, I don't want to essentially lose my game until I get it back.

I know there's plenty of gamers who enjoy being able to download a game without needing to go to a store to buy it, assuming they can find it for older titles and that's understandable. Still, I want something I physically own.

Rod Oracheski

This is a big subject, and I think I'm going to get into it a little more this week with Achievement Unlocked, but I can sum it up with - I think they're right. There's no room for simultaneous retail/DD releases for consoles at this point, the brick and mortar retailers just won't allow it to happen. I know, I know - there's probably already some nerd formulating an angry 'BUT WHAT ABOUT STEAM...' rebuttal, but here's the thing...Steam isn't a console service. Steam doesn't rely on retailers selling a box they can then target with that content - Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo all do.

If retailers aren't going to get a continuous revenue stream in the form of software sales, they'll kick consoles to the curb and fill that section of the store with another electronic 'must have' item instead. Look at the PSP Go's obscene price tag, for example, reportedly high so they can give retailers a cut of the action just so they'll stock it.

Simultaneous releases are the future (actually DD-only is really the future and at that point we'll be able to say "Suck it, Game Stop, you whores" at long last) but that's a future we're going to have to wait to see come to fruition.

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That's it for this outing of Four Player Co-Op. JDL should be back from his sex change next week, so feel free to leave him well wishes on his new gender in the comments.

Oh yeah, and SUCK IT, GAME STOP, YOU WHORES.