Four Player Co-Op 09.09.09: Contra, Sonic And Knuckles, FF13, PAX or E3 And The 10th Anniversary Of The Sega Dreamcast, More

Posted by John De Large on 09.09.2009

Who would win in a fight between Sonic and Knuckles? Will you be getting Contra Reborn on WiiWare? Is it a good idea for FF13 to have some downloadable content? What was your favorite Dreamcast game? 411 Games staffers debate these questions and more in the latest edition of the Four Player Co-Op!

John De Large has joined the game.
Sean Garmer has joined the game.
Chris Lansdell has joined the game.
Jordan Williams has joined the game.

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1. Contra Reborn is out for WiiWare. You're getting this.

John De Large

I love Contra, but the NES cartidge is all I need! (Well that and the Contra Code)

Sean Garmer

No, I like Contra but the person that owns a Wii in my family is my dad and I'd rather not even go through the hassle of trying to explain to him what Wii Ware is. The game is new and is based off the SNES type graphics and control scheme, so anyone that is fan of Contra I'm sure has this earmarked for purchase already.

Chris Lansdell

No I'm not. Don't tell me what I'm getting!!! I AM MY OWN MAN! Seriously, I loved Contra growing up but nostalgia ain't what it used to be. With Sacred 2 hogging even more of my time and a whole host of other games on the horizon, I just can't slide it in. Plus I have downloaded precisely 1 game for which I paid: Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo. My son primarily uses the Wii and he has no interest. So yeah, no.

Jordan Williams

I would if I had a Wii. Contra is one of those games where it can be short, simple and lots of fucking fun. If WiiWare can get more titles like this then maybe it will stop being looked at at the retarded knock off of XBLA and PSN. Also seeing this is closer to Hard Corps, which I actually liked. Then yeah...I'd so get this if I had a Wii.

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2. Also, Sonic and Knuckles is out for XBLA as is Wallace and Gromit. A) It's pretty clear which game you'd get out of the two and B) Who would win in a deathmatch?

John De Large

Once again, cartidges FTW! As for the deathmatch, you know Knuckles would rip Sonic's head off to lull the Brits into a false state of security and then kill them when their backs are turned.

Sean Garmer

If I had a bigger HDD and money I would buy Sonic and Knuckles, perhaps one of my favorite SEGA Genesis titles, my favorite Sonic is still 2. I think I would have to give the edge to Knuckles because he is a bit bigger, he can dig which gives him an element of surprise and he can climb up things which is another good thing. Sonic has speed, and though it kills, Knuckles makes up for that in other ways that Sonic can't, and not to mention Knuckles has shown to be a pretty shrewd fella, so I bet he would have a few tricks up his sleeve for Sonic. (Actually Sean, I meant who would win a Sonic and Knuckles vs. Wallace and Gromit fight, but thanks for fielding the other possibility!)

Chris Lansdell

You know, I never really got Wallace and Gromit. Some of the stuff in their shows is amusing, but they have like forty-eleven games out now. Somebody's buying them. I've never actually played a Sonic game but were I to pick, it would be Sonic. In a deathmatch you say? Well Sonic and Knuckles would attempt to use their speed, but they would get stuck as soon as they punched the claymation guys, and then Wallace would haul off with a toaster. FEAR THE TOASTER!

Jordan Williams

Seeing as Sonic and Knuckles has been re-released some 800 times already, I think I would actually get Wallace and Gromit. At least that is something new and not ZOMG NOSTALGIAAAAAAAA. As for the death match? Again. I'm going with Wallace and Gromit. Sonic and Knuckles are like The Flash in the sense that they embody the most awesome and useless super powers ever. Super speed! Whoo! Yeah, you can get there fast...but not much else. Meanwhile Wallace and Gromit are a couple of inventive brits. The winner is obvious.

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3. FF13 may get some downloadable content. You think this is a good idea.

John De Large

This would only increase the longevity of really great games, so I'm all for it, just don't retroactively add content to crappy games (see also: FF12).

Sean Garmer

It is always a cool idea to add extra content. I'm glad they already stated it will have nothing to do with advancing the story. As I am a big supporter of DLC, its ok for games like GTA or Fallout 3 to have extra story parts put in as DLC. However, for a Japanese RPG, and for a game that has taken this long to make if they were to release DLC that expanded on the story I think I wouldn't be the only one supremely angry, when the game hasn't even come out in Japan yet. Not to mention for a game this large, having extra story DLC would just seem lazy, why couldn't they just put it on disc, I don't want to pay to get extra story that could have been on the game. As far as the other extra content, why not, it's just that, extra.

Chris Lansdell

Absolutely. Final Fantasy games are huge and often have tricks and bonus content hidden in them, but downloadable content refreshes the game and can keep people playing, in addition to occasionally making new people buy in. I don't see how it can be a BAD thing. In fact, XIII may be the first one I buy new since VII. It's about time I went back to my RPG roots, if for no other reason than to piss off Vote and Salms. FPS GAMES SUCK!

Jordan Williams

Yes! This is a great idea. While not comparing them in anyway, RPGs can definitely benefit from DLC. Look at Fallout 3. The game came out a almost a full year ago and most of it's life has been supported by great DLC. So yeah, this is an awesome idea for FF13....AS LONG as the DLC isn't the standard "Gameboy Advance Re-Release" which entails that the only extra content is just another super hard dungeon at the end of the game. Give us some real meat with the extra content.

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4. The 10th anniversary of the Dreamcast is upon us. Name your favorite Dreamcast game.

John De Large

Oh man, there's too many too name. MvC2 was a joy to play, as were the Power Stone games, Code Veronica, Soul Calibur and the original Tony Hawk, but the real winner here for me is Garou: Mark Of The Wolves. I could kill my friend Ian for losing the disc on me. Damn you, Ian!

Sean Garmer

Skies of Arcadia, it is one of my favorite RPG's, and to me the best on the system. I really liked the story, the battle system worked, and I got involved with the characters. There is probably a reason they ported it to the Gamecube, because so many fans wanted to be able to play it. If I'm allowed an honorable mention, Power Stone 2.

Chris Lansdell

Damn you JDL, you have found my weakness! Up until the PS3 came out, the Dreamcast was the only system made by the Big 3 that I never owned. Yes, I even had a Mega CD and 32x. Since I have only actually played one game on the Dreamcast, that being Capcom vs SNK, that qualifies as my favourite by default. It's a shame because the Dreamcast had all sorts of potential, it was just built wrong.

Jordan Williams

This might come as a shock to some....but I never owned a Dreamcast. I had Dreamcast owning friends and family, but I myself never actually owned one. Thus the whole "Dreamcast was AWESOME" wave of gaming completely went over my head. But I do have a favorite game...by default. Dino Crisis. This was the only game that I remember spending a ton of time on with the DC, and I did like it...so...yeah.

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5. Would you rather go to PAX or E3?

John De Large

Taken straight from what I said in this weeks Fact or Fiction: My E3 trip this year was (as the kids and MVP would say) "Ballin'!" As if playing awesome games ahead of time wasn't cool enough, the company of the 411 writers (even Salmela) and Ramon's endless hookups made the trip into an experience that was as adventurous as it was exciting as we ate delicious foods, stayed in a sweet Marriot for next to nothing, networked our asses off and I personally braved the wiles of the American female cougar.

I bet you're saying "JDL, how would you know if E3's better? You've never even been to Seattle!" Well, I've been to Seattle before (I went after E3 actually), I even stayed only 6 blocks away from where PAX is, so I know the area, which is an awesome place to be (delicious Chinese food, Pike Place market and free hoodies are all within arms reach!) and the hostel where I would be staying isn't bad. However, the Marriot beats a hostel, hookups beat no hookups and writers/friends company are better than being on your own, so I'll take the E3 trip anyday, besides my friend Maddie will tell me all about how it went, so I doubt I'll miss anything, not even the swag (hehehe).

The only thing I'm upset about is that I won't meet Mike and Jerry and impress the shit out of them with the comics I've made with my business partner and best friend, Elmo Machete. I know they'd love what we've put together! I'm also kind of pissed that I won't get to eat delicious Seattle food, 'cause every restaurant there is banging.

Also, I'm glad I avoided all that swine flu.

Sean Garmer

I would say PAX because just to experience it, because I already went to E3. However, I think you have to say E3. It's just the bigger deal, bigger announcements are made there, and we always seem to get at least one surprise each year too. PAX gets some cool things too because you get to see games farther along in development, but its not that much later than E3 to make much of a difference. There is always this huge vibe around E3 that you don't get with PAX it seems, I don't know, E3 is the event I've always wanted to go to, and even though I went this year, I still want to go again.

Chris Lansdell

PAX, in a squash. As awesome as E3 no doubt is, PAX has a wider variety of stuff on display. It's also a smaller event which means you don't leave feeling like you've forgotten to see something or you've missed half the exhibits. It's also closer to Christmas, so the games on display are often further along.

Jordan Williams

E3. Especially now that E3 has returned back to it's old form I just want to be a part of it. I get that PAX is more about the community and not the hard sell, but I want to be wowed when I go to a convention. I've been to some that are about the community and they are sort of just indistinquishable from one another. At least with E3 I can get the feeling of "Holy shit I just saw the next generation of gaming" and not "Holy shit I just saw what everyone else saw at E3, GamesCom, Leizpeg, etc etc". But you know what I really want? A FUCKING CON THAT'S ON THE GODDAMN SOUTH/EAST. Why don't any of you fuckbitches ever hold one in Sunny Ole Florida!? Maybe then I can GO to one.

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BONUS! No matter what the Guitar Hero franchise does, they'll never be as popular as the Rock Band franchise.

John De Large

Rock Band is cooler and not as kiddie as Guitar Hero, therefore the "Halo syndrome," takes hold here (The college kids like it, so the teens like it and the tweens will like what the teens like and toddlers will like what tweens like, etc) so while Guitar Hero might be the more well known name, Rock Band is the more sought after product.

Sean Garmer

Actually John, the Guitar Hero franchise is more popular globally because of name recognition, and a lot of people around the world don't even know what Rock Band is or don't have it at all. Rock Band is more popular for the people that love the music game genre, (emphasis on the music part) like me, where the game is treated as a music platform as well as game to enjoy playing. Guitar Hero does a lot better job of capturing the casuals because of the name (that's excluding the potential of the Beatles game to bust that theory,) and because it has been around longer. And also because Activision treats it more like a video game, and doesn't even think about the music part of it. Guitar Hero is lambasted by people like me because they have dragged this genre into the mud with the amount of game releases. While they all may be decent-to-good-to great (GH 5) releases, They are quickly killing this genre because of it. It's only been around for five years, geez Activision. Though GH may be more popular, there are things they can improve on to make it as good as Rock Band or better, so here ya go...


1. They need to limit the amount of games they come out with to one, maybe two a year (if they are coming out with a different instrument like DJ Hero, or a band specific title like Van Halen). And only one a year for the DS as well. Good on them for being the first to come out with a different music instrument though, that's smart.


2. Show some care for your fans that buy these discs and give them DLC they will actually buy from bands people have heard of. Do that consistently every week, and also when you say songs are exportable, don't give them only half the setlist, that's lame and cheap. I understand that MTV is a bigger name within the music industry and has more money, but if you trusted your fans enough to buy DLC, then you wouldn't have to worry how much it costs to get good artists on the game as DLC.


3. If you are going to make a band specific game, stop adding in cover songs or songs from other bands. If I'm buying Guitar Hero Metallica, I want to play Metallica songs, not Ace of Spades and a bunch of other stuff. It's like making an album and having half the songs be from the band, and the other half being covers of other songs, we aren't in the 60's anymore, stop being lazy. Yes, it adds variety to the game, but if you want that, you might as well just call it Guitar Hero 4.5 then. Why does it take Harmonix once to get something right, the Beatles game contains 45 songs, all from the Beatles. It's not that hard to understand.


Finally, another one that may help, but probably won't matter to most Guitar Hero fans. stop overcharting songs (that means stop adding notes to songs, just to make them harder. If they are meant to be easy, leave them that way) I know GH fans love this because apparently getting a bunch of points is more important than just playing along with the song. But this is mainly why I don't buy GH titles, I don't want to play notes the original artist did not include in their song. But that's just a personal gripe. The other three issues I stated though, are not just my opinion, they are stated by a lot of music game fans the world over. And yes, I play real instruments too (that's another reason why overcharting bugs me,) but I just don't get the same amount of fun from playing those, that I get from Rock Band. So sorry, if I'm too passionate about this for some people.

Chris Lansdell

No, I don't agree with this. Almost everyone I know has both, but the ones who only have one of the two tend to have Guitar Hero. There's something to said for being first, and to this day the Guitar Hero guitars are better. As a part-time drummer I also prefer their drums. Since the song lists have so much overlap, I'd call it a push.

Jordan Williams

GH will never be as popular as Rockband, but I don't think it's a matter of Rockband doing a lot of things BETTER than GH, it's just the fact that Rockband beat GH to the gate with the "Full Band" style. If GH would've jumped to it first and then Rockband came out, I think we would be having the exact opposite here. I think the only real thing that is keeping RB above GH is the awesome support and game DLC they have.

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UNTIL NEXT TIME....
Have some Doug.... remixed!




Peace!