Three Player Co-Op 10.06.09: Hypocrisy and a Dying Marketplace

Posted by Rod Oracheski on 10.06.2009

411's Matt Sforcina, Todd Vote, and Rod Oracheski take a look at fighting fan hypocrisy, Sega's new hire, the Japanese gaming market drying up, and FPS burnout - plus more, this week in the oddly named Four-Player Co-Op.

Matt Sforcina has joined the game.
Todd Vote has joined the game.
Sean Garmer has joined the game.
Rod Oracheski has joined the game.

Sean's unavailable this week, leaving Four-Player Co-Op down a man but we'll soldier on anyway! To the questions!

1: After the hysteria that hit the Internet after the Left 4 Dead 2 announcement, are you surprised to see Capcom being praised for their Super Street Fighter IV announcement? Why the difference between the reception of the two games?

Matt Sforcina

I'm not surprised, although I wouldn't have called it. As a beat em up, SSF has that important factor, historical precedent. Most of the older fans are used to seeing half a dozen versions of the game released with each one tweaked and changed slightly. I think it was incredibly short sighted of Capcom to write the game code and not include some way to update the damm thing, but then again, compared to L4D2, they can point to things like tweaking power moves and altering reaction speeds and the players know and accept these as logical, good things that justify a new version. FPS fans are, how shall I say, a little less big-picture orientated. They tend to bitch more about things, given their age and level of saturation of the net of the fanbase. Different genres, different fanbases, different reactions.

Todd Vote

It's a double standard, and a shitty one at that. For my money, I would rather pay for a full on sequel like Left for Dead, than pay slightly less than full price for what is basically a DLC update. Capcom can spout off all they want about the reason it being a disc thing is because it is just to much to update the current game. So tell me this. Will the new game be compatible at all with the current one? Will people that bought the original Street Fighter IV be able to trade their game in for the "new and improved" version? If people let this slide than they need to shut the hell up about Left 4 Dead 2.

Now Capcom has went on record as saying this new game will not be a full priced disc. So I'm guessing it will clock in right around $40-$45. So maybe that is why people are accepting this move. It makes no sense to me, but it is the same practice Capcom has been employing with the SF name since it became a favorite of gamers, and as long as the faithful keep buying this stuff Capcom will keep doing it.

Ultimately, I have no answer as to why it's good for the goose, but not for the gander. But it doesn't sit well with this gamer.

Rod Oracheski

Really I'm not surprised in the slightest. Fighting fans...wait, that's not entirely accurate or fair so let's rephrase that. Street Fighter fans have been conditioned to expect the release of a game will be followed by a succession of releases that tweak the formula. (SEE: Street Fighter 2 and Street Fighter 3) so hearing that Super Street Fighter IV is coming didn't ruffle many feathers with that crowd. Valve fans don't expect to see them turn out a sequel in less than five years, so Left 4 Dead 2's announcement was completely out of left field.

That's not to say that the SSF IV announcement shouldn't have caused some outroar - because times have changed. Hopefully they realize that and will be looking to do the almost inevitable 'Turbo' or 'Championship Edition' tweaking by title update or DLC.

---

2: Sega of America hired Brad Wildes to be their senior VP of sales. Is hiring a guy who 'successfully managed' at a company (namely Midway) that's no longer in business, largely due to their prominent franchises not selling up to expectations, a good idea - or just another classic Sega misstep? Secondary question - Put yourself in the shoes of Wildes - what's your big move to turn things around for Sega's biggest franchise: SONIC!

Matt Sforcina

See, I'm trying here, but I don't see how someone in Sales can be blamed for Midway's demise due to terrible games. I mean, yes, he shares part of the blame, but Midway died due to the games sucking, and I don't believe Brad did the programming for them as well, they weren't that bad off. Which is not to say this is a golden idea of awesomeness, just one that we should give some time. You get good people in bad companies, guys who had ideas and tried but weren't able to do anything to stop the slide. Unless I'm missing some facts, this guy didn't kill Midway, ergo I for one am willing to give him a shot. Should Sega's next game be Sonic Team V Hello Kitty Universe or something, then I'll bring the pitchforks.

Turning Sonic around? Two fold approach to start: One, make a few great simple 2D Sonic platformers for XBLA/PSN/WiiWare. Two, beg, cry, threaten, do anything at all possible to convince Nintendo to make "Super Smash Bros Open Warfare: Nintendo V Sega", with Sonic front and center leading Sega's forces. Then solidify your new found respect with a Sonic/Mario cross-brand platformer. Hey, it's give Mario a way out of being stuck on Super Mario Galaxy Eleventy Billion.

Todd Vote

I think this is a good move for Sega. Wildes can't be blamed for all of Midways problems, and it would be unfair to assume this. I worked at a company that went out of business. So should I be judged as that guy who worked for that now defunct company for the rest of my life? No, the fact is that one person is not responsible for downfall of the entire company. It was a number of mistakes on a number of different levels which led to Midway being sold to WB.

The fix for Sonic is simple. Forget about releasing new disc games for Sonic. Make him a Download only title, and take him back to his 2-D looks. You can have a 3D look on a 2D plane and still make the game look amazing. I think many people would agree that this would be best for Sonic.

Rod Oracheski

Sega makes a lot of puzzling decisions, but this doesn't necessarily have to be one of them. It's true that Wildes' former company failed largely because their major franchises didn't sell as expected, but there are any number of reasons for that to have happened. If he's seen as a good fit for Sega's corporate structure, then it could be a good thing all around. What's the worst thing that could happen, in any case - we get a Golden Axe: Beast Rider sequel?

As for Sonic, let's try an XBLA-focused release that straight-up lifts the old formula of 'some speed' and 'some platforming' to get some good will going before trying a 3D venture again.

---

3: The Japanese gaming market continues to dry up, with Enterbrain reporting a 15.1% drop in hardware sales and a 7.5% decline in software sales. Mega Man creator Keiji Inafune even declared the Japanese game industry "finished" at TGS. Is the trend able to be reversed, or is the Japanese gaming market now lost to handhelds and arcades?

Matt Sforcina

Why does everyone always split up Consoles and Handhelds? I never got that split, they're both video games. Sure, they are really different, but so's a PC and a Wii, we still consider them games. That said, in terms of the question, while you never say never, I don't see there being much hope for the future. The market is adapting faster than home consoles can change. Japanese players seem to want more interaction, more personal connection. So they head to arcades and see the guy they are playing face to face, they flock to handhelds that allow them to play and interact on the go, and if they do head to a console, it's to hook up to the handheld or to play a major franchise and nothing else, which is good since there is little in Japan apart from franchises right now. The market is evolving, and it'll need one HELL of a major step forward in a console to bring it back...

Todd Vote

I doubt it is finished. I guess the Japanese public just feel their money is better spent in arcades and on portables this generation. Maybe it is a sign of the bad global economy, people just can't be bothered to spend that much money on a home console. I don't know if I would say the market is finished just yet, but if this continued into the next generation of consoles, then their might be something to it.

Rod Oracheski

The Japanese home gaming market has been in decline for ages, and when even Japanese developers are starting to think the market isn't their primary focus anymore it appears to be something that will continue into the foreseeable future. The portable gaming market appears to be booming though, something that console-focused developers could consider looking at.

---

4: Modern Warfare 2. ODST. Killzone 2. Now Battlefield: Bad Company 2 is lining up for a run at gamer's wallets in that almost completely empty 'early 2010' release window. Are we finally going to hit FPS burnout, or have you hit that wall already? Secondary - what's one thing FPS games can do to renew or revitalize your interest in the genre?

Matt Sforcina

Ah crap. I knew when I signed into this thing that one question would crop up that I'm really not able to answer. I'm not a FPS fan. I played Halo due to that being a legal requirement for owning an Xbox, I've dabbled in the non-Portal parts of The Orange Box, and I love Fallout 3, but that's about it for me and FPS, so I guess you could argue I've hit the wall already. But trying to be objective about it, the key to avoiding burnout is enough variety. If the games are different enough, then you don't notice that they are all FPS, you're too busy sneaking around in one, saving people in another and just blowing shit up in another. But the games listed do seem a little too samey. But then, we've have samey games for a few years now with no signs of it slowing down...

What can FPS' do to bring me in? Hell if I know. Be more like Fallout 3?

Todd Vote

Of the games you listed above, I will purchase one of them. I'm far from calling it FPS burnout though. There is no law that says you have to buy every FPS title that comes out. Pick the one you enjoy and buy that. There is no reason for burnout just because you have options. Now if you rush out and buy all 4 of them titles, then you have nobody to blame for burnout but yourself.

As far as revitalizing my interest, let's see something original. Just because it is the FPS genre, doesn't mean you should be limited to simply running and gunning. Mirror's Edge showed us that you can have different elements to your FPS game. Now I think where Mirror's Edge failed is that it didn't offer enough of the familiar fair to go along with the new and exciting elements. If Mirrors Edge would have featured a better blend of shooting and running, it may have sold a bit better.

Rod Oracheski

I doubt I'll really ever burn out totally on the FPS genre. So long as shooters have enjoyable single- and multi-player components, I'll be giving them a shot, though I've become a lot pickier about the genre. I'm less tolerant of control issues, for example, something that was a sizable knock against Killzone 2 prior to the patch - and even still a bit afterwards, and completely intolerant of 'tacked-on' multiplayer components like Wolfenstein had - particularly when it's buggy.

---

5: The Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell pre-order bonuses were revealed recently, and it's another game where pre-ordering it will get you
exclusive items. What do you think about the idea of exclusive pre-order content, excluding gamers who can't shop at "select stores" that take part in promotions, and what publishers could do differently to improve pre-orders without leaving people out in the cold?

Matt Sforcina

I don't have a problem with Pre-Order Content, even if it's 'game altering'. I'm somewhat of a sucker for it, provided it's useful off-line. But game store exclusive stuff I don't like. I get that deals are being made, but why should the company care WHERE you buy their game, if only you buy it? But it's not a hatred that burns with a thousands suns, more 2 campfires and a thermos bottle of hot soup.

As for a solution, two: One, any and all online exclusive content with pre-orders must be made available after a certain time frame for download, albeit at a cost. So it'll cost you 200 points to get it 3 months after the game is out. Or, for a slightly less likely option, as a publisher, offer pre-orders yourself. Set up a site, and allow players to buy a coupon for the game. They print that out, take it to a game store and they use it to buy the game, and that way you can send them the codes for the exclusive content direct.

That sounded better in my head.

Todd Vote

I have absolutely no problem with Pre-order goodies. It's a good way to get people to buy the games and not just rent them. It's smart business. I think it will fair better when more stores become involved with pre-order exclusives of course, but I don't see it as a bad thing at all. It gets people talking about the game, and offers a bonus to the fans. The publishers should offer a way for people to pre-order through the publishers website. That could help alleviate the problem for those who can't shop at select stores.

What I do have a problem with is game of the year editions where people who haven't bought a game yet can get the game along with all the $5-$10 DLC stuff, a year after I bought it for a fraction of the price. But that's a 4PC question for a different date.

Rod Oracheski

I hate the idea of exclusive stuff I can't get, just because I don't live near the right store and can't figure out how it makes any sense at all to publishers to deny portions of their fanbase that content. At the very least make it downloadable content available at release, for a small fee - after all, the people who pre-order get it for free, right?

I still think the best idea is to just give people who pre-order a small discount on the price of the game - like the $6.66 discount on Dante's Inferno.

---

BONUS QUESTION: PSP Minis - small downloadable games for your PSP! What's your thoughts on these bite-sized games?

Matt Sforcina

Oh joy, more people ripping off the IhateAppleandallApplerelatedproducts. Well, like most Sony thigns recently, it's a good idea, and it looks great, but it's too damm expensive. I mean, if you're going to rip off the iPhone, the last thing you do is not rip off the price structure. Paying twice as much for Tetris than on other platforms is not something Sony should be asking it's fans. But it is awfully expected. I mean, complaining about a Sony item costing too much? How fresh and original!

Todd Vote

I don't do portable gaming, as I said last week. But anything that makes more games available to us gamers is a good thing, that being said, I don't see these mini's as having much potential to hold the interest of gamers. I could be wrong, but I just don't see them having much of an impact in the grand scheme of things.

Rod Oracheski

I wasn't impressed with the idea until Sony relented on the idea that Minis wouldn't be allowed to have patches or any DLC or multiplayer component. Why intentionally hobble games? The reasoning was ostensibly to speed up certification, but that's something that's essentially invisible to the consumer anyway - we don't know how long a game is in certification, we just know when it hits the (in this case virtual) shelves and I'd rather be buying full-featured games when they release. I don't care how long it took for them to get there.

The idea of Minis is a good one though. Obviously, given strong sales of PSN and XBLA releases, there's a fanbase out there that wants quick arcade-style games. Should be perfect for a handheld.

---

That's it for this week. If you have a question, feel free to submit it via comment or e-mail.