Four Player Co-Op 10.13.09: Halo's Future, 5th Cell Goes XBLA, MMOs On Consoles, and NVIDIA's Last Video Cards?

Posted by Rod Oracheski on 10.13.2009

Is the six year Halo plan a positive thing or over saturation? Can Scribblenauts developer 5th Cell innovate on XBLA? Is an MMO on a console ever going to become common? 411 staffers discuss these topics and more in the latest edition of Four Player Co-Op!

Todd Vote has joined the game.
Sean Garmer has joined the game.
Armando Rodriguez has joined the game.
Rod Oracheski has joined the game.

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Question One: 5th Cell, makers of Scribblenauts, are gearing up for an XBLA game they say will be 'pretty big' - but that's all the details available on it. They did Scribblenauts in just over a year's worth of development, so what's your expectation for an XBLA release?

Todd Vote

First let me say, that I am always all for more games period… Now the fact that we could be getting an exceptional title for the Xbox Live Arcade just sweetens the pot. I've not yet played Scribblenauts, (not a portable gamer) but I have heard plenty of good things about it. If 5th Cell can create something half as original for the Arcade then we are all in for a treat.

Sean Garmer

I love original ideas like Scribblenauts and Little Big Planet. They allow players to create their own levels or implement their own ideas. I never thought I would see a game where you get to just type in something and it shows up as is. I would expect the XBLA game to have something of a creative element to it, maybe an adventure title with a little bit of Scribblenauts and maybe level creators? So far I've liked everything 5th Cell has done, and I expect great things from their first venture on another system.

Armando Rodriguez

I expect something that really uses creativity, like Drawn to Life and Scribblenauts did. I really enjoy these types of games because they are so different from what is out there, that is something we need to see more of. Not another generic FPS, not another sports game that is the same from the year before. It would be really awesome if we could get a new Scribblenauts on XBLA and PSN at some point.

Rod Oracheski

Scribblenauts is probably, control issues aside, enough to cement 5th Cell's reputation as a developer willing to do something unusual, so I'd expect them to do something similarly off-the-wall with their XBLA debut. If they do a simple Scribblenauts-on-XBLA port with upgrades, I'd be a bit disappointed - but probably still willing to pick it up and see if the problems were fixed.

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Question Two: The list of proposed MMOs coming to consoles is long, but the number that have actually arrived is distressingly small. Cryptic's Craig Zinkievich says that the blame falls on Sony and Microsoft, and their refusal to make concessions. MMOs on a console - good idea, or
something you don't care for? If not, what would have to change to get you interested?

Todd Vote

I'm not a fan of RPG's for the most part, but like any rule there is an exception. I've always wanted to try out a few of the MMO's, like the Matrix Online, or City of Heroes. Basically if the premise of the game, or rather the source material interests me, I'm willing to give these things a shot. The DC MMO for the PS3 has my attention, and if I can ever get the planned PS3, that will probably be the first MMO I ever play… So the interest is there for me, provided it is something I can get behind. The next "save the princess, or your countrymen" Final Fantasy types of RPG's do not interest me much.

Sean Garmer

I don't play MMO's in general even if they come on a console. That even counts for my beloved Final Fantasy when they released FF XI. I love RPG's, but I don't like games in the RPG vein that go on forever, so that's my point on MMO's. I do agree with what Zinkievich says though, because there are a lot of issues that plague the consoles. Consoles don't have a big track record with MMO's, whereas on PC's you basically handle everything on your own and they don't have to go through anyone to get things to work. I don't know specifically what Microsoft and Sony don't give the game creators, but I feel if they gave FFXI breaks, they should do it for the others as well.

Armando Rodriguez

I think I understand why we are not seeing those types of games. Developing for a console is costly and I guess they want to adopt the subscription models they use on PC. Honestly, I don't think anyone is willing to pay to play on consoles. That model would not work. Maybe something with microtransactions would, you know, you pay for what you want. Still, that would unbalance the game, making those that pay more powerful.

Another thing is that when you buy a console game you are expecting to play it forever, but we all know MMO's die in a few years and then you just have a fancy disk that does nothing. Honestly, I don't think there is anything that could change my mind, I simply would not play a console MMO.

Rod Oracheski

I've played a lot of MMOs, starting with Asheron's Call (I found Everquest too slow) and later heading off into Dark Age of Camelot, Star Wars Online, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan, and - of course - World of Warcraft. But I burnt out on the leveling treadmill that those games, almost without exception, represent.

To get me interested, an MMO - console or not - would have to do something to break the mold (spelling completely intentional) suffocating the genre. I used to hear about MMO 2.0 and how the game was changing, but that was back around the launch of the Asheron's Call and Everquest sequels, and neither game really changed anything aside from trying to imitate what other games had. Even World of Warcraft, the fabled 'high water mark' for MMO games, did absolutely nothing new when it launched. It polished some areas, it perfected others - but it really didn't add anything new.

I need something new in an MMO, otherwise they'll stay the 'same old thing' to me, and the 'same old thing' isn't worth $15 a month.

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Question Three: NVIDIA has ceased chipset development, and rumors are swirling that they'll be departing the high-end and mid-range video card markets in the near future. What impact would this have on PC and console gaming - if it proves true?

Todd Vote

No effect. Either there will be something changed so NVIDIA continues to produce the cards, or another company will step up and do the same. There is no way they will let this go down without having a backup plan. There will be another company itching to fill the void. I don't see it having much of a long term impact.

Sean Garmer

As I've said many times before, the only thing I play on my PC are old school ROMS. No doubt NVIDIA is a big player in the video card arena and it may affect PC gamers who are looking to stay with the company for future upgrades. In the end, they will just switch to the compeition or Intel will just make its own video card chips for gaming purposes.

Armando Rodriguez

All the computers I have had have always included NVIDIA cards, so that should tell you something. It will create a huge void, but I think it was expected that this would happen someday. I mean, how many models do they create every year? I don't think people are willing to buy a new card every time a new model comes out. Computers usually have a lifespan of 5 years (at least with my experience) so you are selling one card every five years per person. If you create too many models and they don't sell, then you are losing money. The effect on the console market will be less than in the PC market, because consoles only need one card/chipset, you never upgrade those during a console's lifespan. Years ago, it might have been a huge blow, but at this point there is enough talent out there that one company can be easily replaced.

Rod Oracheski

I think that losing that competitor would be a blow to the PC market. Even though nobody really likes having to buy a new video card every few years just to keep playing new games with acceptable framerates and all the cool new effects jacked up to the max, without that hardware progression the PC games market would look pretty stagnant. Ask someone why you should get a PC to game and they'll always show you one of a handful of games - Crysis being the most common. Why? It looks amazing, on a good computer. If ATI was the only game in town, the high-end market, already taking a beating, would decline even more.

On consoles it's probably not as big of a deal. Hardware releases come every five to six years, so having only one vendor would provide stability at the expense of options. The big loser here would be Sony, who would be forced to switch vendors for the eventual PS4 - the PS3 uses an NVIDIA card - and that means backwards compatibility would have to be a software solution. It's the same situation Microsoft found themselves in on the Xbox-Xbox 360 transition, moving from an NVIDIA to ATI card. Sony might try their initial plan, using another Cell processor to handle graphics, but either case means finding a compatibility workaround.

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Question Four: Gearbox's Randy Pitchford said he believes easy Achievements (or at least not impossible ones) can boost sales. Agree or disagree, and why?

Todd Vote

I agree to an extent. I think easy achievements might make more people apt to trying the game out, or possibly even renting it. But the easiest achievements in the world will never ever make me purchase a crap game.

I'll admit I've rented games for the sole purpose of achievements, but I'm not so much of an achievement whore, rather I'm competitive. I have these two friends on Live, and the three of us have this sort of unspoken competition (I'm so winning by the way). But anyway, we have this little unspoken competition. When things start getting to close, I may go rent a game with some easy achievements, but I'd never buy a game based on the achievements.

Sean Garmer

Pitchford may be right, but I think they garner more rentals from the achievement whores than buys. It does help sales because achievements can make a game last a bit longer than they used to. I think having a good mix of achievements is a better idea. You get easy ones, medium, and hard ones. I also agree with him that making certain achievements impossible are more frustrating (perhaps statisfying if one gets those "impossible" achievements") for non-hardcores that like to achieve things. I do believe they boost sales and I have a feeling that is a big reason why PS3 added trophies too.

Armando Rodriguez

From a commercial standpoint, I agree. There are a lot of people out there that want to boost their gaming score and even go as far as buying/playing kiddy games based on movies in order to boost their score. I dislike this fact, but there is no denying that easy achievements can boost a game's appeal.

Rod Oracheski

The short answer would be 'no' as I don't believe there are a lot of people out there willing to shell out the $65-70 (Canadian) for a game just to get 1,000 points.

On a wider perspective, it would be more difficult to say 'no' to, however. An achievable 1,000 point game is popular with Gamerscore Whores, who will absolutely be sure to rent that game. That drives up demand on rental agencies, and spurs a few sales there. And while I don't think anyone buys a game just for the Achievement list, I know there are a few who do take that into consideration when choosing between titles. Hey, any edge you can get on the competition - however slight or hard to understand - is still an edge, right?

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Question Five: Microsoft has a six year plan for Halo's future, and has set up an internal studio dedicated to working on new games. Is this going to be a positive for fans, or are we heading into oversaturation?

Todd Vote

Too early to speak on over-saturation. All we know is that they have a six year plan, and the plan is to create a sort of synergy with all the novels, and off-shoot games, and just to tie it all in. Sounds more like showing appreciation to the fans of the series by tying up everything real nice and putting a bow on it to say look it all ties together. Who is to say how many Halo games it would take to reach a point of over-saturation? Ask me again in six years.

Sean Garmer

If handled correctly and they keep it at one game a year it will be fine. People love HALO and if the sales of O.D.S.T. prove anything its that the gamers aren't tired of it. Look at how well Pokemon is doing after all these years, if the new team can figure out a way to add gameplay mechanics that help the series along and don't push it backwards I don't see why not. If they want to find different ways to "continue" the story of HALO along with all the comics, animes, and what not I really only see it getting bigger. I'm interested to see what these guys will do with the franchise now that its not under Bungie, and if they can pull it off it only means more goodness for the fans and Microsoft. I think we do have to give it credit for really firestarting online multi-player for consoles and in the end, that is where the most fun is had with this game.

Armando Rodriguez

As long as they can replicate the quality of Bungie's games, it will be positive. There is so much left to explore on Halo's universe and it has proven to be a hit with fans, so expanding the mythology and even expanding the game into new genres is an attractive possibility.

Rod Oracheski

I'd have to agree with Todd that it's just too soon to say whether or not this is the road to oversaturation. While companies generally haven't been great about 'long-term' planning for their franchises in the past, the source of most of the concern here, it's just as likely this 'six-year plan' is aimed at avoiding oversaturation. Surely Microsoft is smart enough not to kill off their prized franchise, right?

Let's keep an eye out for Halo Kartz though, just in case.

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Bonus Question: Is Brutal Legend finally Tim Schafer's time to shine, or will the Jack Black-backed action game be another critical darling and retail bomb?

Todd Vote

Really hard to say. Jack Black and the positive buzz the game is getting should help, but it's really hard to say anymore. I was at one point sure that MadWorld would be a massive hit, and it ended up performing well under projections. I enjoyed the demo of Brutal Legend, and it is one that I plan on picking up. I hope it finally let's people know that Schafer can be trusted to make great games. Given the buzz and the added help of Jack Black's name, I will say yes.

Sean Garmer

I love Tim Schafer's games. I played Day of the Tentacle on my Dad's old DOS computer back when i was a wee lad. I enjoyed Psychonauts for my PS2, and I can't wait for Brutal Legend (I'll be reviewing it for the site.) I love to laugh and have fun with my video games and Tim Schafer does that better than anyone. Throw-in the musical tie with the story being an ode to various hard rock and heavy metal genres and I'm sold. I do think the addition of Jack Black as the main voice lead will probably make it a better seller than Schafer's previous games. EA's logo being on the box probably helps a little too. The game does lend itself a little better to the casuals than his other games because there is action, darkness, and humor thrown right at you in the trailers. However, I still think this is aimed at a niche audience with a lot of heavy metal fan service and for that alone it may not appeal to everyone. Schafer was offered to mix up the musical genres, but I'm glad for the games' sake he kept it true to the source. I don't think it will be a retail bomb, but I'm not gonna call it a huge seller either.

Armando Rodriguez

I think that it will be great, both critically and comercially. For what I have seen the game is great and a lot of fun, really better than I expected it would be. I know Jack Black is in the game and also several rockstars (Ozzy and Lemmy!) which will help boost sales. Overall, music games are selling well and I guess this is the best time for Brutal Legend to show up.

Rod Oracheski

Like it or not, and I'd imagine Schafer doesn't, he's kind of being viewed as a niche developer at this point. His games always have great critical reception and then fall flat at retail. Obviously they do well enough that he's still making games, but it's about time the guy gets a breakout hit for a change.

That said, I don't think Brutal Legend is that game. It's short, the missions are repetitive, and the story can't keep up the comedy for the whole seven (and that's being generous) hours that going through the main story will take. There are - at a glance - a number of side missions to complete that would add length, but looking closer you'll find there's only a handful of mission types, and the lower level ones take maybe a minute to finish. Of all Schafer's games, this is the one that's the least like a 'Schafer game' so I'd be pretty disappointed if this is the one that hits it big.

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If you have any questions you'd like the Four Player Co-Op crew to tackle, feel free to submit via e-mail or in the comment section.