Loves It or HATES IT! 3.19.10: Nintendo
Posted by Justin Weinblatt on 03.19.2010
This week Justin debates himself over the company that has divided fanboys for years. Is Nintendo driving innovation in the gaming industry, or leading it to destruction?
Got a lot of great feedback on last week's FFVIII column. Let's take a look!
Comment Time!
"VIII is still my favorite Final Fantasy of all time, and frankly, some of the points you made here are ridiculous and nit-picky. ..
I shouldn't have read this, I knew it was just going to make me get defensive of the game, it's just a wonderful experience every time I play through it and while I get how other's can not like it, I don't get how they can hate it so much.
Posted By: SeanAltly (Guest) on March 12, 2010 at 01:31 PM"
Well Sean, the point of this column is to try to look at things from two opposing viewpoints. When I'm doing the "Hates" section, I'm going to be very negative. The only complaint that may be considered nitpicky is my complaint about Rinoa's cliffhanger. I only brought this up as *one* example of nonsensical moments in FF8. There are many more (Quistis' apology, Squall being leader of SeeD for some odd reason, the whole NORG thing, etc.). There's a lot to love about FF8, but in my opinion slightly more to hate. Whether you agree with me or not, thanks for reading and commenting.
FF8 has a lot going for it... the one serious fault - not touched on? Ultimacia. Your following Kafka & Sephiroth the greatest antagonists in the franchise history, with a villain that doesn't make an appearance till the last disc (this game is also too long)... no real hints or build-up... just a lame antagonist that just undermines an otherwise worthwhile story.
Posted By: Bill21GigaWattZ (Guest) on March 14, 2010 at 06:49 PM
There were a lot of good things and bad things that I left out. That being said, I should have definitely mentioned Ultimecia. She shows up late in the game, and has no discernible motivation, aside from nihilism. I wouldn't say she undermines the whole story, but she sure as hell doesn't add anything to it. Thanks for the comment!
"terrible story, terrible characters, boring pacing, terrible draw system only reason people like it is if they are masochists or very nostalgic. It's all style and no real substance, a weak villian and just the dullest charicature of characters. When you want to choke the life out of the main character and you cannot bear to see him on screen, then you have a serious problem. The graphics are pretty dated as well. Only real good thing about this game, is the ever awesome music by nobou uematsu, and even that is trampled on by the work in ff6,7 and 9
btw justin im amazed at your ability to act like a total scitzo and sound like you love AND hate this game, i guess thats the point of the article, each point is very well put, great article!
Posted By: gooched (Guest) on March 12, 2010 at 12:38 PM"
I felt exactly the same way the first time I played through this game. The second time I played the game, I enjoyed it a lot more. The music is indeed great, especially the theme of Ultimecia's castle. Thanks a lot for the compliments!
Nice list of contrasting thoughts on the game. I like the concept of this feature, but I don't like its actualization. Writing it all out the section headers like Gollum might seem fun and neat, but it makes this feature more suitable for a LotR fansite than it is for a site that tries to take itself seriously.
Posted By: MaxGrouper (Guest) on March 12, 2010 at 11:00 AM
This is my first column here at 411, so hopefully it will continue to grow as time goes on. Thanks for the comments, and I'll take your thoughts into consideration. For now though, I think Gollum will stay. Hopefully, he won't keep you from enjoying the column!
And now for the main attraction!
Loves It or HATES IT!
Nintendo
The media may get hot and bothered at Take 2 over a cup of hot coffee, or accuse Bioware of poisoning our children with a bit of side-boob, but amongst gamers no company has been more controversial than Nintendo. Depending on whom you ask, Nintendo is either a savior spreading the gospel of gaming far and wide, or a sellout dooming us to nothing but minigame collections and shovelware. I myself am a Nintendrone, but lately even I have had my concerns about the Big N. So join me as I argue, with me, about the most controversial company in gaming.
We Loves The Nintendosssss... WE HATES THE NINTENDOSSSSSS!!!
We Loves the Nintendos's Influence- Nintendo made the industry what it is today. After Atari crashed, it seemed like it may have been game over for the entire industry. Nintendo came along with a console, a plumber, and a dream. They brought the industry back from the brink, and since then gaming has become debatably bigger than Hollywood. Nintendo led the way in hardware and software. The original Mario Bros. and Zelda were leaps and bounds ahead of their peers, and helped shape the industry. Nintendo pretty much singlehandedly created the handheld market. It's scary to imagine what the industry would be like without Nintendo.
WE HATES THE NINTENDOS'S INFLUENCE- Despite their reputation as innovators, Nintendo has been slow to change since the days of the NES. Nintendo has dragged their feet on mature games, CDs, high definition, and online gaming. Aside from motion controls, which we'll get to later, Nintendo has not contributed any meaningful innovation to the industry in years. It's scary to imagine what the industry would be like if Nintendo was the only show in town.
Admit it, just seeing this screen fills you with joy.
We Loves the Franchises- Nintendo has given us Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and many other classic franchises that helped define gaming. How many franchises that started out in the NES days are still relevant today? It's a very short list, and at least half of it will be Nintendo IPs.
WE HATES THE FRANCHISESS- Or the lack thereof. Aside from maybe Pikmin and Wario Ware, Nintendo hasn't really created any worthwhile new IPs or characters in about a decade (before I get flamed, remember that Advance Wars and Fire Emblem have been around for a looong time in Japan). The franchises that they have created (Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, and Brain Age) are mostly for the casual gamers.
Sadly, this is one of the few new IPs to come out of Nintendo in some time.
We Loves the Games- Nintendo's major first party releases are still among the best in the industry. If you don't have a great time playing Mario Galaxy then you don't have a soul. Nintendo gives each of their major releases the time and effort necessary to be great. Look up the top ten games on gamerankings.com (a website which compiles review scores). HALF of them are Nintendo games. Nintendo has a legacy of quality that no company will ever match.
WE HATES THE GAMES- Even if the gameplay is great, the presentation on many of Nintendo's first party releases sucks. Twilight Princess still features text rather than speech. Seriously? No dialogue in 2006?! I can't imagine any other major game company getting away with this for one of their top titles. Companies like Bioware, Naughty Dog, and 2K are making games with production values that rival Hollywood blockbusters. Nintendo is years behind them.
Party like it's 1999
Switch it up.
WE HATES TEH KIDDIE- Nintendo is teh kiddie. No, I am not being sarcastic. Whether or not Nintendo's games are actually kiddie is up for debate, but Nintendo's image is definitely kiddie, and that is entirely their fault. Going back to the NES days, Nintendo has tried to block mature content from their consoles. The SNES version of Mortal Kombat featured sweat instead of blood (in the Genesis version blood could be unlocked with a code). It really hit the fan during the Gamecube generation. While Sony and Microsoft featured high tech looking consoles, Nintendo had a purple lunchbox. While Sony and Microsoft had GTA and Halo, Nintendo had Wind Waker. Regardless of Wind Waker's quality, it reinforced the idea that Nintendo made kiddie games. The Wii and DS have been marketed mostly to the "non-gamer". Nintendo has branded itself as the kiddie company. Honestly, I feel a bit embarrassed breaking out my DS in public.
We Loves the Kiddie- I don't really see Nintendo as kiddy. I see Nintendo the same way as I see Pixar. They create high quality products, which everyone can enjoy. Wind Waker is a perfect example of this. Wind Waker is a fantastic game, and any gamer who passed on it because of the style only hurt themselves. Nintendo has not marketed to the "core" gamer because the "core" gamer does their own research, and can make informed decisions without being pandered to. And Justin, if you're embarrassed by your choice in video game console then maybe you have some insecurities that you need to work out.
Fantastic game, horrendous marketing decision.
WE HATES THE THIRD PARTY GAMES- Nintendo creates their consoles with their own games in mind. They don't seem to consider or care about third party developers. Nintendo had a lot of regulations for developers back in the NES days. The N64 used cartridges instead of CDs, a mistake which drove many developers into Sony's arms. The Gamecube controller had an awkward button layout. It worked great for Nintendo's efforts, but was awful for anything else. Nintendo had a very clear vision for the Wii, but three and a half years later third party developers are still trying to figure out what to do with it. There's a long list of great third party games that flopped on the Wii. Resident Evil Darskside Chronicles, Dead Space Extraction, No More Heroes (1 and 2), Mad World, and The Conduit, to name a few.
We Loves the Third Party Games- Nintendo is helping third party developers create games for the Wii. Nintendo is working with Team Ninja to develop Metroid Other M, has allowed Sega to use Mario for their "At the Olympic Games" franchise, and are really promoting Monster Hunter Tri. Third party developers just haven't been bringing their best franchises to the Wii. When they have they have been successful. Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Call of Duty Modern Warfare, Guitar Hero, Tiger Woods, and other established franchises have done very well on the Wii. The titles that do not sell well are mainly from niche genres, such as light gun shooters, or are offbeat titles without a license attached to them.
Pwease buy me? Pwetty Pwease?
WII HATES THE WII- After all that talk about innovation, what has Nintendo done for the hardcore gamer? Let's look at Nintendo's big non-casual releases. Twilight Princess was a Gamecube port. Mario Kart Wii and Smash Brothers Brawl can, and should, be played with a Gamecube controller. Super Mario Galaxy features some motion control, but could have been done as well on the ‘cube. Nintendo's biggest release over the past holiday season, New Super Mario Brothers Wii, uses the same controls as NES games did. This is innovation? Games like Wii Sports Resort and Wario Ware Smooth Moves show a ton of amazing things that can be done with motion controls. When will these ideas be put into a real game? Probably never, because Nintendo can just sell ten gagillion copies of Wii Fit.
If someone asks you, "what is the best console for a hardcore gamer", and you answer, "Wii", then you are either a delusional fanboy or a liar.
Wii Loves the Wii- The more people playing games, the more money there is flowing into the industry. The Wii has also generated a ton of positive media attention for gaming. Plus, Wii games are a lot of fun. I love hardcore games as much as the next guy, and there are quite a few of those on the Wii, but I also enjoy casual gaming. The Wii allows me to share my passion with friends and relatives who may otherwise be completely uninterested. In college, I had a ton of fun playing Halo with my roommates. I also had a ton of fun playing Wii Sports with the girls across the hall.
The Wii is not the best console for the hardcore gamer. However, if you are a hardcore gamer who already owns a 360 or a PS3, the the Wii makes a great second console. Obviously, the Wii is also the console of choice for the casual gamer.
She'll play Wii Fit with you. Call of Duty… not so much.
The Verdict- This is a tough one. While I started out firmly on Nintendo's side, I did a great job of convincing myself. I still believe that motion controls can be great for core gamers, although so far that potential is largely untapped. I have to reluctantly admit that the Wii is the weakest of the current three home consoles, although up until 2009 that dubious honor would have went to the PS3.
I do think that casual games are a good thing. They help the market grow, and can be fantastic fun. More importantly than that, Nintendo still makes fantastic games. Nintendo may be slipping in production values, but in terms of fun they are second to none. Nintendo has given me many many hours of fun over the years, and as long as they keep doing that...
WE LOVES THE NINTENDOS!
Agree? Disagree? Leave any feedback, and suggestions for future topics, in the comments section… I have a feeling I just opened up the fanboy floodgates.
And of course don't forget to check out 411's Twitter!
The influence of the hardcore gamer is over-claimed by hardcore gamers. All the console makes know their bread and butter is the "casual" market. The families and the people who see them as fashion accessories.
Posted By: Q:? (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 05:29 AM
Proud to say that I've never liked Nintendo
Posted By: AngryTas (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 06:19 AM
Was I the only one who loved the Gamecube controller?
Posted By: Guest#7133 (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 10:25 AM
I have always loved the Mario and Zelda franchises. Thought they were the best. But I'm sick and tired of waving a plastic "piece" around to make my game dude do something. And since Microsoft and Sony are stupid enough to crash the party, motion control may be here to stay for a while.
If you want motion control, fine. But how about making it optional? I miss my controllers.
Posted By: Comment Board Poster (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 10:27 AM
It's a moot point in the end, while they don't have the "respect" of hardcore gamers and whatnot, they have casual gaming in the palm of their hands and it translates to sales, which is why with a console in standard definition, with no dvd playback and hardly any real online community, it's still far and away the best selling console in the world right now, which is pretty amazing. However with natal and move both indicating microsoft and sony moving towards the casual market, wii could get boned pretty damn hard and the so called "feet dragging" that you eloquently put it as, will definatly come to bite them in the ass.
It's a shame because even though they havent made any new orginal first party ip franchises lately, the orginal ones (esp the big 3, metroid, mario and zelda) are so strong in quality, chances are they will blow pretty much anything from the other consoles out of the water....heres hoping we arent too far from an HD zelda though.
Posted By: gooched (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 11:22 AM
This year seems to be the year of the wii putting out the hardcore games. Metroid, Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter 3, to name a few coming out soon.
Posted By: Guest#7627 (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 11:34 AM
Great article, just a couple of points:
The game cube controller was also great for the Day of Reckoning games.
Also on Mariokart Wii, the classic controller (not the GC controller) is best. Though I freely admit that's all a matter of opinion, just sharing mine.
And the biggest benefit of casual games/gamers: as games become more common the "stigma" attached to playing them diminishes.
In other words, if you get your girl to play Wii Sports or Wii Fit or whatever, she's less likely to look at you odd when you play God of War because at least she's familiar enough that she just dislikes WHAT you play and not the fact that you play at all...
just my 2 cents
Posted By: M:-X (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 12:45 PM
This question is about 1/2 sarcasm, but does "hardcore gamer" mean anyone who only cares about graphics versus gameplay? Because that sure as hell is different from the my understanding of it.
Posted By: MissyNEVERwearssockswithShoes (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 02:06 PM
I think a case could be made that the reason Nintendo has always been so successful is that they take things other companies have done, and simply do them better. They don't need to be innovative or inventive. They simply do whatever is currently around better.
For example, years ago for my birthday/Christmas, I wanted a Gameboy. This was when the GB was still in it's original black and white. My parents got me the Sega GameGear instead. I can definately see their thinking as the GG was in color, while the GB was not. I liked it, and got a few games for it, but I kept wishing for a GB.
Fastforward 15 years, and look at where they are now. The GB eventually did get colorized (among other things), and Sega is gone. Nintendo took a existing technology and simply made it better.
Posted By: JLAJRC (Guest) on March 19, 2010 at 05:44 PM
games will always be defined by their gameplay. Graphics are not everything and do not make a game good. Graphics are supposed to be a compliment to great gameplay, not the whole thing. How many great games can you remember from the 1980s and 1990s that, by todays standards, have terrible graphics? All of them. Do you still consider them awesome games? absolutely. It will always be about gameplay over graphics. And thats why Nintendo wins.
Posted By: mike (Guest) on March 20, 2010 at 06:22 PM
"Was I the only one who loved the Gamecube controller?"
Nope, I loved it too and never knew why it caught so much flack. For one, it felt comfortable as hell in my hands (more so than the PS2 or Xbox controllers). Also, the buttons were basically laid out in the same was the PS2/Xbox controllers, it's just that they were shaped differently. I remember Capcom Vs. SNK 2 getting a bad review on Gamespot because the Gamecube controller allegedly sucked, but then I bought it myself and thought "What's the problem here?" I thought it was fine.
Okay, that's the longest rant defending the Gamecube controller I've ever gone on.
Posted By: Guest1111 (Guest) on March 21, 2010 at 01:36 AM
Nintendo lost me with the Nintendo 64. All the games was a clone of mario 64, that I don't find that great, no good fighthing games, no rpgs...nothing good, except the zelda games and smash bros. melee. At the time in Psx you get Final Fantasy VII, capcom vs snk and so on. Nintendo won my back with the gamecube. Up to this day I still love the cube, great games, quick loading times, good rpgs, good first party games, good wrestling games, some hidden gems like chibi robo and so on...it was great. nintendo lost me again with the wii. Only f.cking party games, no voices, no new franchises and I dont want to play with those stupid motion controllers, I want to use the classic ones. And at this moment every one will follow that trend. Nintendo only made games for retards. I don't want to be at the same skill level in a wii sports game or whatever...and that brings the point. -sight- Nintendo is making videogames a mainstream and accesible thing...and that is good for videogames as a whole, but for us, the elite, the warriors for thousand battles is a kick in the rear. Nintendo use us to build an empire, and then neglected us...thats the way I feel.
Posted By: Fer (Guest) on March 21, 2010 at 03:11 PM
I personally love Nintendo. I have a Super Nintendo, N64, and Wii hooked up to my tv right now.
"mature games, CDs, high definition, and online gaming"
Sigh. I really wish people expand their horizons. The great thing about the Nintendo family is that for the most part.. It's a family thing. I know a LOT of people who played video games when they were younger who don't play anymore because they 'outgrew them'.
So, if they do play video games now they want to play it for fun (or boredom) while it being too complicated. "Swing controller like bat" is waayyyyy easier to get than "Press L1 to select pitch, hold down SQUARE to change target, press X to gain momentum, press X before it reaches a bar." Well, I think that you do it in MLB2010.
Nintendo is smart to keep its products family oriented because EVERY member of the family has a good shot at mastering the controllers. Not just the people who need a job or something that gets them out of the house. haha
Also, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" when it comes to the issue of characters. Mario is still pumping out GREAT games. And most Mario games have at least 5 other people who could have their own game series. *cough* Yoshi *cough* The Link & crew games still GREAT. Sure, the graphics aren't visually stunning like a XBox or PS3, but they have incredible replay value.
And if nothing else, Nintendo products are a durable and way cheaper the other platforms. Okay, I know new N64 games were almost always 60 bucks. But at least you didn't have to worry about scratching. haha
Posted By: Eboney (Guest) on March 23, 2010 at 10:31 AM
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