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Working Title 10.21.11: Working Rant -- Putting Confidence in WWE 12 (and 13...and 14)
Posted by Jordan Williams on 10.21.2011





You're lucky I didn't put the video at the bottom on autoplay.





Welcome to the #1 Column that is STILL FUCKING HAPPY that Mark Henry is champ WORKING TITLE. Now like I mentioned last issue I really don't like to gush over my wrestling love in my video game column this week it's actually appropriate because this week's column is about WWE's video game offerings. Essentially WWE12 is right around the corner so I am looking at all of the WWE 12 news and improvements and find myself seeing a similar cycle.

Promises...promises...but still the same old shit. So how can we fix this? Is it time for the WWE games in general to make a huge change or a genre shift or is it just a case of the WWE franchise doomed to be Madden'd out with subtle little changes that are so minute that we end up not caring?

BUT FIRST!

The triumphant return of...


Working Playlist!

Working Playlist used to be called....well...I can't remember what it was called. Either way it's just a quick review/recap of what I've been playing and how I feel about it.


X-Men: Destiny I am a huge Marvel fan (Fuck DC and your capes you flew in on) and I LOVED XML1 and 2 and MUA 1 and 2 (even though 2 was...eh..) and you know what? Where XMD might not be the BEST of the bunch I can still appreciate what they tried to do here. It's not good by any means but it's an example to me anyway of a game that's more fun than it is good. The idea of picking three unknown characters and having them sort of be the "outside looking in" types is a great touch. My only gripe is that the game is terribly short (about 5 hours if you blow through it) and the COPIOUS amounts of dialogue can't be skipped. Also what seems to be the biggest foul is the fact that there is no New Game+. You spend nearly the entire game picking up new powers and costumes and you have to start fresh each time.


Gears of War 3 And I present to your a nominee for Working Title Game of the Year. Yes, I mean that. The game's single player is actually pretty good...from what I've played. Most since I haven't had a lot of time I've been digging into the multiplayer offerings. While I am absolutely fucking horrible when it comes to Versus (a.k.a Shotgun) mode I am loving the hell out of Horde 2.0 and Beast Mode. I just wish Beast Mode was longer than 12 waves and it was bit harder. Even on Insanity it still doesn't take much other than a group of Tickers and a Serapede to wreck shop.


Rage From the 30 minutes I have played...I dunno. It seems like Fallout 3 mixed with Borderlands. Not sure if that's a good thing yet. Once I play a bit more I'll see.


Battlefield 3 Beta I decided I'm not going to play this. Why? Because I am not going to bother playing something that by all accounts is broken and since it's a beta it seems like everyone under the sun will try to glitch it. So I'll just wait until the actual full retail release and GameFly it. Although the backlash it seems to be getting is interesting...I wonder if it's because people don't fully understand that Bad Company and Battlefield were/are two different games.


And now that that is out of the way...WWE.

Now I am not going to discuss the current on-screen product of WWE because that's not what I get paid (HA!) for. Instead I am going to discuss the state of the current on console product.

Mainly how goddamn stale these games have gotten. Are the games bad? Not necessarily...but have they seen major improvement over the years? Nope. Have they pushed the envelope on what can be done with the genre? Hell nope. Are they worth paying 60 dollars year after year to get?....AW HEYULL NAW.


So what can we do to save WWE12 (and 13...and 14)? Well...although WWE will NEVER be a fighting game based on the very nature of it, there are a few tips they can take from the genre in order to change it up.


Working Title: How to put confidence in the WWE franchise

Yeah, I would like I say that I came up with the name for this issue before Monday but we all know that's a stinking lie.

What's also a stinking lie is the act that the WWE games have been super great wrestling franchises for the last few years. To put it bluntly the best parts of the WWE games have all taken place out the ring. The graphics and presentation have all gotten better and the Create-A-[Noun] is actually all kinds of awesome and has seen VAST improvement (although making Divas is still just an exercise in futility). The main thing that sticks out as stale and bad is the in-ring action. The animations are plodding and slow and the story modes which for all intents and purposes should be the main crux of these games have all been boring, flat, and dull. So the first step for me anyway to fix this is to make the story mode better. Of course one might be inclined to think that WWE creative being in charge of a story MIGHT not be the best thing...but if a RECORD company can come up with a decent story....


Story Mode: Def Jam Vendetta Fight of NY and Mortal Kombat 9

You know I love FFNY, in fact I don't know of anyone who actually hates FFNY and it still stands as a pretty damned good way of doing a decent story in a wrestling game (although some might argue that FFNY was more fighter than grappler). The main problem with the majority of the Road to WrestleMania stories that are in the current SvR games are that they are completely boring and devoid of the twists and turns that the on-screen product has. If you've played one 'Defeat Undertaker at WM" story then you have played them all. Spooky shit will happen, druids will appear, you will beat UT at WM and confetti reigns. To compact the problem even more you can only use such a small number of superstars for actual story mode use. Do we really need to do a story with Cena year after year? I understand that in the previous games you did have branching story modes and what not that you could use pretty much any wrestler on...but those weren't exactly of the best quality either.





So this is how you fix it. Instead of just that same old story why don't think actually make it...you know...a story? RTWM is on the right track with having every match/event taking place on a literal calendar but where I think the game could shine is in making just one huge over arching story.

You know, like Mortal Kombat.

Make some giant catastrophic event happen in the WWE that everyone has a stake in or something and you go through the course of a WWE year playing multiple different wrestlers or multiple different paths while still getting to the same goal -- defeating the main heel at WrestleMania.

Even on the on screen product those types of stories seem to be the ones that play out the best. One heel power stable shows up and dominates everyone and the faces band together to stop them. nWo, (Heel) DX, Evolution and more recently Nexus all were great good vs. evil storylines that would translate great to the story mode of a wrestling game. Hell, you could even take those same exact stories and re-write history.

Using that sort of thing you could even make the inVasion storyline fucking work.

But no matter how great you make a story in a game, the thing that will always decide whether it lives it dies will be the gameplay and that has been the main sticking point for the last few years with the Smackdown vs. Raw/WWE franchise. The gameplay is so boring and stale that it's honestly more fun just to put the matches on Sim and watch the AI fumble around rather than do it yourself.

Now THQ claims they have made changes to WWE 12 that will insure a deeper mode of play and will be 'better than ever' but this is the same PR scpheil they have been using since 2009.


Gameplay: ...Make it better?

But here lies the problem when it comes to the WWE gameplay. Sure, it's bad and clunky but outside of turning it into a straight up fighting game hybrid I have NO idea how they can fix it. WWE All-Stars was a nice little hybrid of fighting and wrestling that worked for how arcade and over the top the game was but trying to pull that off in what is supposed to be a simulation wrestler would be too jarring for the style and honestly too simplistic.

WWE: AS was a great game...for about 5 hours until you realized that you could literally beat an opponent in under a minute with perfect health if you used the button combos correctly. That sort of gameplay won' fly with the WWE 12 audience.

What about Fire Pro Wrestling?

FPW is pretty much world renown for its depth when it comes to wrestling games, but I am going to go ahead and say something here which is a bit...well...controversial?

The gameplay aint all that great. Don't get me wrong, you can do some AMAAAAZING things with FPW in the ways of wrestler depth and A.I and all sorts of goodies, but as far as the gameplay goes it's not something to write home about. And to be honest I don't know how well that gameplay would even translate to a 3D plane AND online seeing how everything about it is timing based. Of course with the current systems the countering of moves is all based on timing and you can see how muddy that gets when the game is taken online.






So as far as fixing the gameplay I don't know what they need to change to make it gel but something needs to be done. Maybe it's the animations or the speed of the game. Maybe it's the fact that the moves in the game seem to lack any real power.

So what I am trying to say is that the gameplay might not need a massive overhaul like the story mode and the presentation. I think it just needs some polish. A lot of little things that get fixed can go a long way to making the gameplay a better experience.

And since THQ and WWE seem hell-bent on making this a yearly franchise there is also one more thing that they can do to up the quality.


Presentation

The WWE production team never gets enough credit for what they do. The video packages, the music, the camera work...all of it is pretty goddamn impressive when you finally sit back and look at it. So why doesn't ANY of that come across in the games? I know in the past they offered things like changing camera angles for the action and what not but it felt more Resident Evil 1-3 than WWE TV level. They do put little finishing flares on the presentation of the game with the entrances and the little WWE tags at the end of a match but there can be so much more done. How about a little ticker at the bottom that gives you fictitious WWE news like it does now?

Now of course no one wants quick camera cuts in every single match because that can be jarring to the orientation but a little selective zooming or a quick zoom in on an injured body part can go a long way. They already do this now when an opponent is bloodied but they could stand to do it a bit more.



Yes, this seems like a good place for a Mark Henry picture.



You will never truly be able to simulate all of the television product because people truly do not want to see commercials (real or fake) interrupting matches but for something as theatrical as the WWE they need to step the game up in trying to make the digital product mirror the television product.

And do I even need to bring up the sound design? Tap-dancing Pirate Hooker Christ how can the voice acting (barring a few examples) be so painfully bad? How about the announcing? Given the limited move sets that the game does have it surely can't be that hard to get the game to just call a cohesive match properly and not reference characters that are not even in the GAME let alone the match. The sad part about the announcing ESPECIALLY is that the same team that makes these games makes the UFC games which have GREAT announcing.

And whoever came up with the bright idea to stop the generic butt rock soundtracks and instead use Superstar Themes for background music needs to get a fucking raise. With that being said the person who decided to remove the option to SKIP songs during menus needs to be dragged out back and shot in the dick. I do NOT want to hear Cody Rhode's theme 6 times when I am editing a CAW.

Which brings us to...

Customization - It works!

The one thing THQ doesn't need to drastically fix is the customization. There are always things that can be improved upon and made a little easier but they have been really good and giving you a really large suite of stuff to use. Create-A-Wrestler is great in that of itself but the list just keeps getting stronger with Create-A-Finisher, Create-A-Entrance and now Create-A-Ring there are just a ton of little things you can do.

I can honestly say throughout what has gone on with the WWE games franchise the creative modes are the ones that have gotten consisentintly better throughout each iteration so I really don't have a problem with anything that goes on here. Although I would just be tickled pink (yeah, I said that) if I was able to completely edit established superstars costumes instead of just the colors.


Of course this is just rant that turned into a column that turned into a rant again. Seeing as the Fall/Winter Blockbuster season is upon us I thought I would just take a bit of time to talk about one of the of games I am looking forward to that doesn't involve a first person perspective or me putting bullets into someone.


Working Question

Call it.

Modern Warfare 3 or Battlefield 3?

Until next time, I'm Jordan Williams and…if I could ever land any of these in a non-tool assisted match I'd be happy.




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Comments (42)

 
Don't care about MW3 or BF3.

Had enough FPS games the last 2 generations to last the rest of my life.


Posted By: Guest#6455 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 12:09 AM

 
 
Two words:

GM Mode.

When they removed this from WWE games, I stopped buying.


Posted By: The TradeMark Experience (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 12:52 AM

 
 
No Mercy was the best. Your article lack insight into past games and why they worked.

SVR has gotten worse, they remove features and bring them back as new watered down features a couple years latter. They never improve match quality either. They remove moves instead of adding and the AI never grapples; just counters which is frustration.

The real problem lack of options, only one wrestling game. But the gaming industry is now owned by stockholders. The best era of gaming is gone(90's to early 2000's)


Posted By: Guest#4060 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 07:54 AM

 
 
So have you just read all the new features that will be in the new game and written a column bitching about the fact they weren't there last year?

RTWM is now an 18 month long angle covering 3 superstars. This means less choice, but should allow for a deep story, and THQ have shown they can make better stories than WWE Creative (Christian's RTWM anyone?).

The gameplay hasn't been polished; it's been completely redone with the Predator technology to pep up the pace and make the animations smooth.

As for the presentation it looks damn good already, but WWE 12 is promising improvements.

In short, if you'd kept your pie-hole shut and played WWE '12 before shooting your mouth off, maybe you wouldn't look like a complete (although admittedly eloquent) arse.


Posted By: Loki (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 08:03 AM

 
 
any forced WWE story in these games are lame.
Take the season mode from the current WWE Universe and then sprinkle in actual storylines. They don't really even need voice acting or even any actual specific written promos. Keep the content generic enough to be able to apply to many wrestlers but if you have enough generic comments, they won't occur too often in close proximity so you can trick the player into thinking the situation is unique. They could easily pre-write scenarios that come up in Universe when certain things happen, Heel Champ, Face #1 contender + Heel champ wins via nefarious means = Stereotypical Chickenshit Heel title run beginning. New stable, 2 heels 1 face + 3 other guys are enemies = Rehash initial nWo run. You could put in at least 30 different types of major scenarios and include variations or transitions based on player choice. Loved WWE universe, only place i could have Chavo Guerrero, Zack Ryder, and Evan Bourne work their way up to world champion.
Also loved Fire Pro's GBA versions. They had a audience mode that ranked your matches based on how 'good' they were in respect to their style. That should make a come back. Never seen match ranking like that in any other wrestling video game.


Posted By: Guest#6147 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 08:26 AM

 
 
WWE 12 actually fixes a lot of this and actually looks pretty sweet. Universe mode 2.0 is a GM mode. The RTWM does have one big storyline that connects 3 different stories. And the gameplay is more No Mercy than SvR.

Posted By: Guest#1708 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

 
 
I stopped playing these when you could no longer use the female characters anymore. It cut the game in half. Maybe I'll pick them up for $10 at a bargain bin or just rent them.

Posted By: Guest#5510 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 10:57 AM

 
 
I thought the SVR franchise isn't bad. The story modes they have had have been passable, and when they don't get into the more ridiculous stuff (UT in Road to WM this year), they stand out as far more interesting that what the WWE has put out on its main shows. I was intrigued by the Cena storyline which included Orton as an out of control GM and MVP as the ally/rival. Or the Mysterio storyline, which had him run down with some memory loss, and thus he turns to Swagger for guidance. Perhaps a bit over the top, but still more interesting than 90% of Raw tv these days.

The main criticism is that the recent batch of story modes has been too brief--running from January to WM, or about 15 weeks, but it looks like that's being fixed with WWE12

The match physics of the game have gotten much better, and the ladder and table matches have become somewhat more realistic. Unfortunately, they still have the same equalization problems they've always had--whereby Mysterio can suplex Big Show.

Where the gameplay of SD v. Raw suffers is in the backstage brawl segments, which are far too redundant.

And it seems for every advance the game makes, they have to take out something equally cool. The announce tables are pretty much limited to "put the wrestler on the table and dive onto him". Where is getting up on the table and delivering your finisher?

And the absence of the GM mode in the last iteration is a real shame. They replaced it with a more generic practice calendar that doesn't really have any real point or goals.

Also, if they're going to have cutscenes, might it not be a good idea to have the voices actually match the wrestler? I'm not talking necessarily about the generic actors replacing the wrestlers--I'm talking about getting the lips to move properly with the dialog.

On the other hand, they seem to have gotten past much of the announcing problems. Yes, there is some repetition, but it isn't quite as frequent or inane as past SVR. And I think they've gotten away from announcers calling non-existent moves, or wrestlers who weren't even in the match.

Another thing that they've gotten away from that I'd like to see is more CAW options for entrance themes. In the 2007 version, there were at least a dozen other songs to choose from in addition to the entrance themes, including many artists such as Godsmack and Three Days Grace. But in more recent iterations, it's been the wrestlers themes and some generic rock tracks. I'd like to bring back more options to give more variety to the create entrances.


Posted By: Michael L (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 11:37 AM

 
 
Here's a short list of problems:
-Biggest problem: gameplay. There is no excuse for the gameplay of No Mercy to be more wellregarded than anything since. What is even MORE glaring is that Yukes made Wrestlemania XIX and the Day of Reckoning games on Gamecube. They're not No Mercy, but they have very similar gameplay and controls (unlike the Smackdown games which I find unintuitive).
-taking out modes. GM Mode. And the best season mode in any sports game ever was Wrestlemania 2000's Road to Wrestlemania. Bring that back.
-taking out features. Why? And I HATE how you can't have men wrestle women in the games now. I'm not some wifebeater or something. I like to play with my girlfriend. Or even recreate real moments like Beth Phoenix tossing the Great Khali from the rumble.

The overall theme is that many things are being removed from the games when these things were what made the games so good in the first place.

I disagree that the solution is to make a good fighting game. Def Jam Fight for NY kinda did that but it wasn't as fun as No Mercy or WM2000. The solution is to make a good WRESTLING game and developers would need to look to the past to see what worked so well.

From people I've spoken with, all most fans want is a game with the awesome amount of modes and matches from Smackdown games, but with the gameplay of the old AKI games. That's not asking for the world. I know it's difficult/impossible to get the AKI engine but you don't need it; you just need to change the gameplay to make it similar. Wrestlemania XIX and the DoRs on Gamecube are seemingly the only thing close.


Posted By: A short list (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 11:51 AM

 
 
I stopped playing these when you could no longer use the female characters anymore.

THIS! Remember when created female wrestlers could have no gender and fight in any match for any title? THAT was fun. Now, it's just a sausage fest of same old shit.


Posted By: shaydee (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 01:31 PM

 
 
Wish I could create a custom entrance for someone one or two belts. And I wish when I pick a guy up in a Rumble Match to do an AA out of the ring, Michael Cole wouldn't mention what a fall it was, while the guy is still on my shoulders..

Posted By: I nit pick (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 02:40 PM

 
 
Really? REALLY? Your great idea for improving SvR is...'Make it better?' REALLY? I just read the comments section and everyone ONE of these, even if only 12 sentences, provided a more in depth look on how to fix the series. We knew you were phoning it in when there wasn't a mention of 'GM mode'. I suggest you hang your head in shame, sir.

Posted By: Really?589 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 02:57 PM

 
 
I always wanted to see a WWE game that started out set in the days of territories (or even the indies), where along with a wrestling game, we get somewhat of an RPG handling backstage relationships & politics, traveling, etc. You learn something new in each territory to move up and eventually can be offered a contract with either WWF (WWE), WCW or ECW. I know it will never happen, but I'd buy it.

Posted By: Ace Jones (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 02:58 PM

 
 
i will say that the actual match play really wasn't all that bad for 10 and 11. i have really started digging the control style of 11 and hearing that 12 can be the exact same i'm in. plus added roster depth makes me happy. my only problem is that they really can't get back to the old no mercy controls, but they do fairly well with what they have. and we need Jericho and Kali and RVD in 12. sadly it has gotten to the point where the only reason to buy the new games is to expand the current roster and keep it fairly fresh. or when you buy a new gaming system. they need to put back the gm mode but find a way to add actual stories to that. combine universe mode with create a story and gm mode. you set the rivalry length, and allow you to make matches end in dq or interference. do that and 12 would be a huge hit.

Posted By: the mecca (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 03:19 PM

 
 
I know WWE wouldn't go for it but having two different face/heel story lines for characters would be great. You could play the dominant heel forming a stable to control the brand or play the one face that is willing to fight the heel. Really who doesn't love playing the bad guy?

Posted By: Guest#5470 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 04:28 PM

 
 
What's FFNY?

Posted By: Guest#8202 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 04:36 PM

 
 
Bring back GM Mode, put the Indy moves back in the CAM and regular move sets, fix the boring story mode and get the wrestling engine AS CLOSE TO NO MERCY AS POSSIBLE WITH BEING SUED!! Otherwise this will be another rehash of the same shitty game we've been getting for years.

Posted By: Guest#4712 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 05:00 PM

 
 
See this is what pisses me off.The first 2 wrestling games I played were WWF Warzone and WCW vs NWO Revenge.Only the Revenge game was the one I liked more.Then I got the First SvR Game and Masteered the Controls in a short amount of time.Then it was the 07 version and I sure as hell did not complain.I played it alot and had fun.Then it was the 08 one featuring ECW and again the controls,gameplay and graphics were no problem for me.Even the story mode on all those SvR games I never complained but every day it was like oh the controls are to hard,the graphics are to screwed up,the story mode is not fun for me.People please.Those past games were to essentially pave the way for these new games.Why would THQ not make changes?Are you guys really sure the controls were to hard or was it the fact you never bothered to try to master the controls.I never moaned about the controls hel they were easy for me.So tell me what in the hell is your problem anyway?

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 05:04 PM

 
 
GM mode needs brought back, basically a WWE licensed version of Promotion Wars. 2 players being able to control RAW or Smackdown, battling for brand supremacy, trading superstars whilst competing to sign talent from Superstars and NXT.

The ability to share CAW's online was an excellent addition.


Posted By: beef23 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 05:21 PM

 
 
WWF No Mercy. That had it all. Period. It may have been the best game (sports related) ever. Move sets weren't over complicated, create a character was fun, story modes varied. All you have to do is elaborate on that stuff a little bit and you have a great game.

Posted By: chris (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 05:25 PM

 
 
How can you not mention No Mercy you tit?

Posted By: Tommy boy (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 06:31 PM

 
 
"What's FFNY?"

Def Jam: Fight For NY. The last great game using the syn Sophia (AKI) engine, though I admittedly haven't played any of the Kinnikuman games that use it.

This artcile could have been one sentence long. Bring back the syn Sophia engine.


Posted By: G-Walla (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 07:51 PM

 
 
virtual pro 64 has he best gameplay of any wrestler in my opinion simple but lots of different moves and reversals

Posted By: Guest#8794 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 08:25 PM

 
 
they should re-release No Mercy but with todays roster

Posted By: Guest#7133 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 08:46 PM

 
 
See now your getting greedy.You honestly think that THQ will do what you want hell no.If you think you guys you could do better go work for THQ.I am sick and tired of people saying they want things WWF No Mercy or Smackdown SYM,HCTP or anything like that.Those kinds of features are in the past.THQ is basically using thr new age technology which seems to me that none of you gamer fans will accept.What a large moveset is bad,the create features are not good enough.Hell when I played SvR 08(with ECW)I changed Bobby Lashley's moveset a little bit so it was more impact than say power or speed.Not once have I everd complained about story mode.Yes I admit I hated GM mode but why does anynody bother with it anyway.Every single wrestling gamer fan refuses to accept change.Why?What change is no good anymore to anybody.No it's that fans think it's easy to make a wrestling game when no one understand how hard these guys work or the hours they put in to make a great game but all you do is spit in there face and say it's no good.What makes any fan think they could better?I'm asking you guys a question and I want an answer.

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 08:52 PM

 
 
The last few years these games have been little more than Creation Tools to me. And that fun was taken away when they let you download the infinitely better creations other people made.

There's a big problem in making a simulation game of something fake. The things that make matches good can't be done in a game because it wouldn't be fun to play. Instead it's the mother of all spot-fests with wrestlers doing the same moves 100 times, countering into nothing and plodding around the ring illogically.

When you take something that is more about the drama and suspense and story telling, and try and transfer it to a medium that is about overcoming obstacles it just doesn't work. Losing a match means you have failed, whereas in real wrestlers lose all the time and it doesn't matter.

Wrestlers don't play differently enough, with the ratings that should govern their skill-set don't seem to impact them at all. Everyone feels roughly as fast and strong, can jump an infinite distance, lift anyone, do anything, and given how small the move-list is, you're basically choosing which entrance you wish to see and what finisher you want.

This in turn means you never feel a need to adjust your strategy for different wrestlers, and the A.I. won't do it for you.

Quite honestly the only real solution is to go the other route and make it wacky over the top arcade fighting.


Posted By: Guest#8508 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 11:24 PM

 
 
See now your getting greedy.You honestly think that THQ will do what you want hell no.If you think you guys you could do better go work for THQ.I am sick and tired of people saying they want things WWF No Mercy or Smackdown SYM,HCTP or anything like that.Those kinds of features are in the past.THQ is basically using thr new age technology which seems to me that none of you gamer fans will accept.What a large moveset is bad,the create features are not good enough.Hell when I played SvR 08(with ECW)I changed Bobby Lashley's moveset a little bit so it was more impact than say power or speed.Not once have I everd complained about story mode.Yes I admit I hated GM mode but why does anynody bother with it anyway.Every single wrestling gamer fan refuses to accept change.Why?What change is no good anymore to anybody.No it's that fans think it's easy to make a wrestling game when no one understand how hard these guys work or the hours they put in to make a great game but all you do is spit in there face and say it's no good.What makes any fan think they could better?I'm asking you guys a question and I want an answer.

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest) on October 21, 2011 at 08:52 PM

Grow up. Do you take this stance with all forms of entertainment? Are we not allowed to criticise bad films just because it's difficult to make a film?

They WANT to make the best game possible, and when you're so wrapped up in developing it, you become lost. They need to hear the response of the public in order to make the changes and deliver a top quality game. Heck, they pay people to give them their honest opinions on the games.

The NBA2K series improves every year and are delivering phenomenal basketball games annually, and THQ are veterans of the game industry with plenty of money at their disposal, they're perfectly capable of doing the same.

Small move-sets are very easy to fix: you allow wrestlers to have more moves. There are hundreds to choose from, but they restrict you to a handful and lock certain ones off. Lack of variety makes gameplay less interesting. Basic.


Posted By: Guest#9921 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 11:35 PM

 
 
Short answer: Keep THQ away from it, they've skated far too long.

Posted By: Evil_Yoda (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 12:57 AM

 
 
I think if they can deliver all of the things they're promising in WWE '12, then wrestling games will be back on track. However, seeing as it's Yukes, I'm not sure if they'll pull it off (they've promised so much and delivered so little in so many SVR games).

Posted By: Guest#2939 (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 02:57 AM

 
 
See this is what pisses me off.The first 2 wrestling games I played were WWF Warzone and WCW vs NWO Revenge.Only the Revenge game was the one I liked more.Then I got the First SvR Game and Masteered the Controls in a short amount of time.Then it was the 07 version and I sure as hell did not complain.I played it alot and had fun.Then it was the 08 one featuring ECW and again the controls,gameplay and graphics were no problem for me.Even the story mode on all those SvR games I never complained but every day it was like oh the controls are to hard,the graphics are to screwed up,the story mode is not fun for me.People please.Those past games were to essentially pave the way for these new games.Why would THQ not make changes?Are you guys really sure the controls were to hard or was it the fact you never bothered to try to master the controls.I never moaned about the controls hel they were easy for me.So tell me what in the hell is your problem anyway?

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest)  on October 21, 2011 at 05:04 PM

Who said the controls were hard you moron? The gameplay still sucked. Faulty Collision detection , no limb damage , psychology etc , Mysterio being able to slam Big Show among other things. Just because you "mastered" the game doesnt change the fact it's still shit.


Posted By: Guest#1666 (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 03:20 AM

 
 
Here's the biggest problem I have with the SVR games: the movesets are nothing like real wrestling.

Think about it: in a SVR game, every character has about a trillion standing grapple moves. Then you've got a strong grapple, which adds another trillion. Every match degenerates into 'strike, grapple, strike, grapple, strike, grapple, etc'.

My idea is to limit the number of standing grapple moves. Switch on the WWE or TNA and follow a guy for 4 years, and he'll do no more than 6 standing grapple moves in that entire time. Everything else is a strike, running strike, running grapple, turnbuckle move, etc.

THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE IN THE GAMES. If you play as a high-flyer like Kofi Kingston, you should not be able to win an entire match with nothing but standing grapples. You should be FORCED to use your entire arsenal to win (like in real matches, kayfabe-wise of course), even if it means jumping off the ropes, slingshot moves, running moves, etc. If you play as someone like Finlay, you should be FORCED to take down your opponent and use submission holds while grounded. Only if you play as a huge guy like Khali or Batista should the majority of your moves come from standing grapples (and even then, there wouldn't be that many).

My point is, a wrestling game is not going to work unless each wrestler has a certain playstyle that reflects their real-life abilities. Standing and grappling in every match shouldn't be the only way to win, it should be DISCOURAGED. Standing grapples should not lead to signature strikes. Running grapple moves, slingshot moves, turnbuckle moves and ground submissions must NOT be converted into standing grapple moves just for the hell of it! And on that note, Rey Mysterio must NOT have an arsenal of power moves just to fill out his movelist (ie. vertical suplex)!

Following on from this, wrestling games NEED to eliminate the clinch completely. No-one ever does it anymore ('Test of Strength' doesn't count, neither does Lesnar v Goldberg). The only reason why it's still there is to differentiate between strong and weak grapples, but if every character has a maximum of 6-8 standing grapple moves, it's not needed at all. Every move should be like the stick grapple system introduced in SVR '07, where you press a direction and your character instantly does the move. You shouldn't have to clinch before doing a snapmare, you should be able to just do the snapmare from out of nowhere. No-one clinches before a Samoan Drop. No-one clinches before a Body Slam or a Hip Toss. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it should be in wrestling games.

In short, wrestling games need to be a closer reflection of actual wrestling. I often feel that the SVR developers have never watched an actual wrestling match. That needs to change.


Posted By: Guest#0315 (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 03:36 AM

 
 
They need to give us a booking mode, where we can set match conditions like having a squash match where one wrestler has unlimited finishers and the other doesn't get any, or set the win conditions (simple like finisher+pin or more out there like distracted ref+chair+pin) and the guy can't be pinned until that happens, then you're graded on how close to the set finish time you were.

Posted By: lol (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 10:39 AM

 
 
Things that i don't like in WWE games? Ok:
1) everything is slow. I know real WWE matches are not fast either but this is the game and i want to actually see some speed in motions.
2) moves looks powerless - like characters only touch each other, not hit with some power. For example in earlier games we had a chance to hit a clotheline and see a 360 in the air from the victim, now it is not the case.
Can you add some impact to the moves THQ? No? Of course you don't. You is too busy on making civil clothes for every main eventer.
3) Special rules matches sucks because of controls - again, in earlier games i could win a ladder match in 15 seconds if i was lucky enough and it was fun and like in reality, cause it really CAN happen, now i must go to the ladder (i need to spent like 10 seconds to only get to the top) and then...oh...this crappy shit with the meter - it looks like i control some idiot who don't even know how to unlock the hook and grab the briefcase...hell he don't even can catch this freakin briefcase half of times...the guy is disoriented idiot - who in the hell allowed him to wrestle?
In earlier games special rules was alot of fun, now it is the same routine i trying to avoid.
4) 40 moves for each character? So what, they all use the same 30 of them, so they all feel the same. Try to give them 15-20 moves but make most of them unique to the character so i will actually get interested to play as something else besides my fav.
5) stupid CAW politics - "you know guys we have Hogan's bandana and legdrop in this year's game...we don't have his taunts, entrance or mustache from previous game when you asked for his legdrop finisher but we have this legdrop and bandana now. How cool is that?"
6) CAW mode is basically 3D editor. I'm not against it at all, but hell can the devs give us some premodeled parts (like freakin noses, eyes, chins etc) and clothes of current wrestlers and legends, so most of us who don't have so many free time can make some decent CAWs?
7) Annoing commentary - change them to something more entertaining or replace with in match music like in earlier games...you know what, make both.

...And that's it, change those things and WWE games should be fun for me again.


Posted By: ermacermac (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 01:28 PM

 
 
Fine I understand that.Here is the thing there is only so much THQ can do to a game befotre they reach a deadline.If certian things don't get in then they don't get in.Fine if you don't like mysterio using power moves change it.If you guys like kingston to use more high flying moves create them or ajust the moveset.So your going to tell me that kingston can't use a few garppling moves.Your annoyed by commentary.Wow you guys must really be bored.Just ignore the commentary and don't say you can't because you know as well as I do you don't even try.Look i explained it before but I will explain again.I never bothered to change every guys moveset cause I never felt like it.Take lashley for example.When i first played SvR 08 his moveset was bland.So i went out and took the time to change it.I gave the best spear move avaliable,added millitary press,tiger bomb,over-the-head belly to belly suplex,the jackhammer.Then once I went back to the game lashley became a dominant beast.Make the moveset of a certian wrestler the way you feel.If it means more high flying moves by all means go ahead.If that means adding more high impact power moves then do it.As far as story mode goes.I really don't want to guys like Edge,Christian,Ryder or guys like that cause they don't intrigue story wise.I would rather do a story season with HBK,HHH,Cena,Taker you know guys of that nature that will intrigue me.Again THQ can only do so much with the time that they have.When I played these games i never sat around moaning and complaining I just sat there and played the game without questioning it at all.I don't why that's so hard for the rest of you.

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 03:48 PM

 
 
Want to fix WWE games?

WWF instead of WWE.

Roster from 1999-2001.

End. Of. Discussion.


Posted By: MBD (Guest)  on October 22, 2011 at 08:57 PM

 
 
battlefield 3!!!

and im with you, wrestling games need to be overhauled, their just like madden the same shit every year with the same bugs and bad annimations, with a new feature or 2...

i havent bought a wrestling game in 3 years... i do want to play wwe all stars buts thats about it...

i used to buy every one...

my favorites are

1. wwe day of reckoning 2
2. smackdown 2
3. no mercy


Posted By: Guest#8481 (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 02:21 AM

 
 
RT Guest 3:16
The deadline is understandable, but they probably know how much they can do before it, so they must give us the 100% finished product. Even if this means 40 wrestlers and 10 DLCs but 100% finished (you know with current entrances and music, complete movesets, entrance attires for everyone who use one etc) i will like it, btw i don't think 90% of fans need more wrestlers than that. Fans must enjoy the game, not finish THQ's work first.


Posted By: ermacermac (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 03:44 AM

 
 
Guest 3:16- You seem completely unable to process the idea that people have different opinions. You enjoy the SvR games? Fine, keep playing them, keep enjoying them, and don't listen to what other people say. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people who have played the games, didn't enjoy them, and felt like sharing their reasons why.

You keep saying 'If you don't like the game, edit the movesets'. Really? A lot of people have problems with the game that go beyond the movesets and can't be edited. Giving Kofi Kingston more high-flying moves is not gonna change the fact that I played the game and found it to be dull, boring and overly easy. It won't change the fact that the entire game is Quick-Time Events and button mashing, with no skill or strategy necessary. But according to you, I shouldn't question a game that I payed full price for and don't enjoy playing? If I'm not not enjoying the game, for reasons beyond my control, why should I be happy with it? Why do I have to pretend that I'm enjoying a game when I'm not? I'd rather return it and play something I do enjoy.

You keep using this argument that THQ have a deadline and can only do so much in the time they're given. Here's the facts: SvR games have a 14 month development cycle. Every year, they say that they're redo-ing all the animations from scratch, yet every year we get the exact same glitchy, unrealistic, generic animations as the previous year. Why do they waste 14 months remaking the same graphics from scratch every year? Why not recycle the animations and use their time to work on the core gameplay? It looks like they've actually done this for WWE 12 though, which is a good sign.

Regardless of all that, if a 14 month deadline is not long enough to make a good enough game, there's an easy solution: EXTEND THE DEADLINE. Wrestling games used to be made every two or three years and they were better for it. I doubt anyone would complain if the next wrestling game took 24 months to make and was a better game as a result. If time is as much of an issue as you claim it is, they can make more time.

You then say "As far as story mode goes.I really don't want to guys like Edge,Christian,Ryder or guys like that cause they don't intrigue story wise.I would rather do a story season with HBK,HHH,Cena,Taker you know guys of that nature that will intrigue me." Again, why is your opinion so much better than everyone elses? You think everyone should just play as the characters you like and ignore the ones they like? What about the gamers who are intrigued by Edge, Christian and Ryder? Why do they have to settle for less?

In short, stop trying to force your opinion on everyone else. Just accept that not everyone likes what you like and move on.


Posted By: Guest#2721 (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 07:20 AM

 
 
the only thing wwe games need is better stories that are more poen ended, a better mor interactive universe mode, and better physics like in svr11(d-throws and dropping people on weapons).

im only gonna say this once: no mercy sucked.


Posted By: Guest#9577 (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 12:57 PM

 
 
My point is this:I just play the game.I don't go out of my way to complain.Stories.You want better stories.I really don't get it.Graphics are a problem.I honestly found no problems with graphics.If the wrestler is slightly different than the one in real life I deal with it.I really am trying understand everything you guys say but it gets to the point where what good does it do.Quick time button mashing is a problem.I don't believe that.I don't want to spend half my time learning the controls.I want to be able to get a hang of the controls fast.Fine you guys can say that a longer story mode will be good but at the same time how can you guys be sure that it's that simple.I actually know that WWE 12 wil cover over a one and half years and even through 3 wrestlemania's with story mode.If that is not good enough then I don't know what is.My point is why is it so hard to enjoy the game and moan.Look at SvR 08 unlockng the McMahons,the old WCW Title.nobody is saying use grappling moves but you will sit there and tell me that some of these guys can't use grappling moves.

Posted By: Guest 3:16 (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 05:12 PM

 
 
Yea No Mercy was one of the best wrestling games ever. I had so much fun playing that game. Fire Pro was good too and it played alot like No Mercy.

Posted By: RedVexx (Guest)  on October 23, 2011 at 11:06 PM

 
 
I personally hate the SvR games with a passion. Of course I'm saying that with a huge bias given the last one I played was 09 and the last 2 years looked like the same version.

People online have made it seem like WWE 12 is a complete reboot but it still looks like the same slow gameplay. However, there is enough interest for me to give this year's version a shot given they finally added the ability to break moves something I have LOVED from my personal favorite wrestling game Day of Reckoning 2.

I have always loved the features the SD series had. Always great but I am unable to play more than 3 matches in a row due to how boring the game is. The AI is also easy as shit to beat even though they claim every year that they revamped the AI.

Again this is my experience with the SD series up to SDvR 09


Posted By: Guest#0637 (Guest)  on October 27, 2011 at 10:40 PM

 


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