411 Games Fact or Fiction 12.13.11: Mass Effect 3, Star Wars MMO, Resident Evil: Revelations, More

Posted by Stewart Lange on 12.13.2011

Will Star Wars: The Old Republic revitalize the MMORPG genre? Is Mass Effect 3 the next big game to have interest? Should the Minecraft project be scrapped? 411's Sean Garmer, Adam Larck, Wyatt Beougher and Tony Acero debate these topics and more in this weeks' 411 Fact or Fiction: Games!

Hello and welcome to the NEW LOOK 411 Games Fact or Fiction! I'll be your M.C for proceedings now, so hopefully we can inject a little excitement into things. Some of you may know me from the MMA zone, where I write the 5 & 1 every Wednesday. If not, come and check it out, I try and keep it as easy to digest as possible! I'd also like to thank Adam Larck for handing over his baby to me, but at the end of the day, everyone wins because it means we'll hopefully get Adam back on a weekly column. As a further tribute, I'll be keeping the old banner too, so lets HIT IT!

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1- The upcoming Star Wars MMO will re-ignite interest in the Genre.



Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- Basically, I think the genre has peaked. There have been a ton of other MMOs that have failed to ignite the general public's interest, some of them even more suited to the genre than Start Wars (I'm looking at you, DC Universe), but World of Warcraft remains the only viable pay-to-play MMO. And let's be realistic here - most of the Star Wars nerds who are desperately aching to play this game are the same nerds who are sitting in their parents' basements playing World of Warcraft already, so I just don't see there being a huge influx of new players. There will be an initial spike, but they're not going to make a dent in WoW's subscriber base, and KOTOR will be free-to-play by this time next year

Tony Acero: FICTION- I'm not interested in the least, so that's one negative. I have to agree with Wyatt here in that this will really only interest those who already play games such as this, I don't. Perhaps I'm not qualified to speak on it, but logically, this doesn't seem to be enticing enough to engage all gamers and only that niche market of those who already engage in gameplay such as this.

Adam Larck: FICTION- The people that like this genre have stayed in it throughout, and probably continue to play WoW. If they don't, they play some free MMO. Personally, I may check it out if it ever drops to free-to-play, but just don't pay monthly fees for games like that. The Star Wars MMO will mainly bring Star Wars fans into the genre, or it'll just tempt some WoW players to try something else for a bit before (probably) going back to WoW.

Sean Garmer: FICTION- As much as I'd like Bobby Kotick to be wrong about the Star Wars MMO because I can't stand the guy. However, he is probably right, not only is this gonna be a bigger deal for Lucas but it's also not going to pull in a huge market. This is mainly going to appeal to Star Wars gamers and possibly some good MMO hungry folks. I think Star Wars fans are hoping this is huge because they want this to become the new WOW and it's not going to be. This should sell well at first but after the first few months people will start to lose interest. If WOW is starting to lose people it's not because they want to go play another MMO, it is because MMO's as a whole are starting to run their course. Star Wars fans generally want to help their beloved franchise anyway they can, but this isn't another book series or Blu-Ray release. This is an investment that requires monthly payment and also you have to put time into this game to get something worthwhile out of it. I think Star Wars fans that are also gamers will buy this and then drop it. All those other star wars fans are not going to all the sudden buy a console or upgrade their PC's just to play this for the long haul. If this doesn't pan out very well it could spell the coming end of MMO's as being big sellers.

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2- You would rather see Bethesda delay games and patches, instead of releasing them bugged.



Wyatt Beougher: FACT- This goes for Bethesda's games as well, but it's especially bad when they're releasing something that's supposed to fix bugs that already exist in the game and all they do is end up releasing a whole new set of bugs.  I know it's been said before, but I'm paying full price for a game, I don't want to beta test it, and when I download a patch (or title update), I expect it to fix things, not break new ones.

Tony Acero: FACT- I'd rather see any release be delayed for fixes rather than purchase a bugged game. True, there will almost always be slight inconsistencies and problems in which a patch is needed, but to get a patch that has bugs sounds counter productive. I'd be pissed...

Adam Larck: FACT- I understand some of the reason Bethesda releases games with bugs in them. When you have games that big some bugs will always slip through, and hundreds of thousands of gamers are more likely to find them rather than a few QA testers. However, when it comes time for patches, it's better to release patches with no bugs then to add to the problems. If Bethesda's not sure something in a patch will work correctly for basically everyone, maybe they ought to keep it out until the next patch. Personally, though, I haven't had a problem with any of their patches, so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.

Sean Garmer: FACT- I was pissed when they had bugs in Rock Band 3 when it came out, and I'm sure fans of Skyrim feel the same. Just because we have the ability now to fix the issues post release doesn't mean that it becomes ok for developers to release their games with huge issues. I understand that delaying a game may mean losing money because it didn't get released in a certain window such as the holiday season. However, it is better for the game in the long run because at least fans know they are getting a good game and don't have to worry about it breaking on them later. Sometimes though it's hard for a couple hundred testers to find a bug and it takes as Adam mentioned the general public to find it. You can't prevent them all, but if you know about the issues before release I think it's criminal to push out a game with bugs in it. 

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3- Dance games will soon over-saturate in the same way as Rock Band/Guitar Hero.



Sean Garmer: FACT- (It's already happened on Ubisoft's part) First I want to admit that I'm probably one of the small minority that still play Rock Band at least three or four times a week and still buy new songs for it like 9-pack of Queen songs that came out this week, so I have a deep love for music games. I don't have a enough space in my room or I would have a Kinect and Dance Central 2 right now. Unlike Rock Band however, that people thought could last for a long time but eventually got oversaturated and became expensive because of the plastic instruments. I know for sure Harmonix understands that Dance games similar to the Karaoke games have always been a novelty thing. That's probably why they only have a few DLC songs come out every month or so, not to mention they still have Rock Band fans to cater to as well.
 
Ubisoft however, just like Activision, don't seem to care about the market and just want to make a quick buck until it dies. Don't forget they are also the ones that flooded the market with their Imagine series for casual gamers. Dance games have now invaded our homes and become a huge party game for people to act silly and get huge laughs similar to karaoke. Both companies have tapped into that, with Harmonix once again taking a more dance authentic route. The games are also popular big time for Kinect because they are one of the few games that actually know how to use the sensor well, so people don't have a lot of choice right now when it comes to Kinect. The Kinect versions also allow for people to use these games as a form of exercise that could give these games more length than their instrument focused brethren. 

However,  until the Kinect came out, Ubisoft ruled the market on the Wii only Dance titles. Since 2009, Ubisoft have released six games and an extra songs disc (With three of those games coming out this year alone.) Ubisoft also has a Just Dance for Kids only and this year they released a Summer Party game as well. They also have monthly DLC with 2-4 songs in each pack. Not to mention the two Experience games from MJ and the Black Eyed Peas as well. So you can obviously tell that Ubisoft's plans are all about making money. Not to mention with Just Dance 3 they've ported it over to Kinect and the PS Move, so the saturation is going to happen faster.

Harmonix have released two Dance Central games in consecutive years (the games have a very similar vibe to how RB 1 & 2 felt) that are for Kinect only, and also release monthly or bi-monthly DLC packs that include 2-4 songs. I've heard from a good source in the company that similar to what they are doing with RB, the plan is to not release a game for a while and let DC2 soak into it's audience. The genre is exploding right now for various reasons and it's already getting saturated too much by Ubisoft, so it's probably going to be up to Harmonix once again to make sure dance games don't become a thing of the past. However, I'd say people will get tired of it before someone comes up with another nice addition to the genre.

Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- But only because of the wording. I'm sure dance games will oversaturate the market, but I don't think it will be "soon" as the question asks. These games have been around for years in some form or another (Dance Dance Revolution, which was released in 1999, comes immediately to mind). Garmer's incredibly long-winded answer did have a few good points - Ubisoft is in the midst of a dance game cash grab and Harmonix appears to be doing things in a manner so as not to oversaturate the market, but his use of Ubisoft's "Imagine" game series, I think, is slightly off-base. Yes, there are too many of those games out there, but I don't think they enjoy nearly the level of sales that the Guitar Hero and Rock Band games, and I think Ubisoft is fine with that, as they make the games cheaply so it's not hard to turn a profit. With their dance games, there are a lot more costs involved (namely in securing rights for songs), so they need to have better sales in order to enjoy a comfortable profit margin. And while I'd like to say that people will steer clear of the Ubisoft dance games for the higher-quality Harmonix ones (not unlike Rock Band outlasting Guitar Hero's million different iterations), the biggest difference is that Ubisoft, as Garmer said, has the Wii locked down, and Wii gamers have proven to be both creatures of habit and fools easily separated from their money, hence the proliferation of shovelware for the system. So while I think Ubisoft will do their best to flood the market with sub-par dance games and that they will likely have success doing that on the Wii, I think the more discerning gamers on the PS3 and 360 will at least prolong (if not prevent entirely) the oversaturation of the market as a whole.

Tony Acero: FACT- Oh I definitely think these games are headed this way. Already, there are far too many out there, way more than I even knew as it appears. I have a sister who truly loves her Wii and her newly purchased Kinect. She feels these dance games are fun and loves gathering everyone at her house to join in. She has roughly 7 different titles, most of which came out within the last two years. She was/is also a Rock Band/ Guitar Hero junky. I don't understand it, but I'm sure she's not the only one. As such, I feel the creators know this and will continue to try and make as many as possible in a small amount of time, keeping the same formula with different songs.

Adam Larck: FACT- Personally, I think Ubisoft is already coming close to achieving Activision status on oversaturation. There's a lot of Just Dance games out there, and more seem to release every month. Harmonix is chipping in with two Dance Central games. We've had a few "The Experience" games, and more companies seem to think it's a good idea. However, it won't take too long before people get tired of these as well, and some other niche genre comes and takes its places.

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4- Free-to-play games will soon outweigh Subscription based services.



Sean Garmer: FACT- If I had to pick one, I would say yes because quite frankly people are getting tired of paying monthly fees for games that they have to wait months or years to get significant expansion packs or new iterations of the game. You can obviously tell this is happening with World of Warcraft as they are trying too hard with the out of date Chuck Norris commercial. Also the fact that they waited until about the fourth expansion pack to finally include the Panda stuff everybody has apparently been clamoring for, tells you that I think Blizzard knows they need to do something quick. The Free to Play model is a way to grab people into playing the game and then selling them on content they think those players might want to buy. Personally, I think that's just the PC trying to cut into the console DLC market by letting you play but you gotta pay for the cool stuff. At least the subscription service is up front with you and says "hey you get everything if you just pay us this price a month to play it."

Some of them are also totally free from beginning to end, and yes about 3/4 of these games are nowhere near the quality but if you get big games like DC Universe going into this model and it proves profitable I think you will see more people heading in this direction. 

Wyatt Beougher: FACT- As I mentioned in my Star Wars answer, I think the current MMO trend will continue, that being new MMOs start up as pay-to-play, only to see declining install bases and an eventual shift to free-to-play. World of Warcraft will likely remain the exception, at least for the foreseeable future, but the vast majority of MMOs either will start as free-to-play or will end up as free-to-play. Either way, free-to-play MMOs will vastly outnumber pay-to-play ones, at least until other studios can figure out how to capture lightning in a bottle like WoW did, and that's something they've been trying to do unsuccessful almost since WoW's release in 2004.

Tony Acero: FACT- I think that there is always going to be a market for subscription based services because those fans are die-hard. They will continue to pay because it's a part of their life. With that being said, us gamers who want to try these 'new worlds' out may very well hop on the Free train simply because the omission of a price tag. With this possible new flood of gamers, there will be a peaked interest in the free versions, but I still feel that the hardcore gamer will never let go of their subscriptions.

Adam Larck: FACT- The only company that seems to be doing good on subscriptions right now is World of Warcraft. Even they are giving 20 levels free, and I could see that expanding in the future. Free-to-play games are great for companies because of micro-transactions. They may not bring in subscription fees, but they'll bring in plenty off characters, equipment and "special" quests only for members. That way, they reach as many people as possible, and still have a strong chance of making a good profit, like Champions Online and Lord of the Rings has .

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5- With further drama with developers, the Minecraft Project should be scrapped.



Adam Larck: FICTION- With over 4 million people having bought into it, I can't see this slowing down anytime soon. The game just hit full retail, and quests and various other items are still planned. Plus, with a new head now that Notch has stepped aside, he'll want to try new things as well. As long as the popularity is still booming, I see no reason to scrap this.

Sean Garmer: FICTION-I have to agree with Adam here, it all started with a free version of the game that became so popular they decided to make a retail version, what's wrong with that? Actually this is a formula that you could see many free games take in the future. If the development team adds features that make the game worth buying people will get the paid version as well. It's all about the popularity of the franchise and if it does well then I don't see why it shouldn't continue. 

Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- I have to agree with both Adam and Sean - isn't this the ultimate ideal we want more companies to follow? Launch a new IP and stick with it until it becomes highly successful?  With over 4 million sales for an independently developed game, Minecraft shows that you can move units by making a game fun and harnessing gamers' creativity, and not just by endlessly recycling the same game with some new features (hi, EA Sports and Call of Duty). I wish more companies would do this, so I wish Minecraft nothing but continued success.

Tony Acero: FICTION-  Why? True, it's yet another sim type game that I would never play (mainly due to my character's ass always looking far too flat, much to the chagrin of my real body which has cheeks for weeks...). In all seriousness, though, why stop something that apparently a lot of people are interested in? They are sort of like the little game that could, and they're doing a fine job of keeping above water. Kudos to them and keep on keepin on...

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6- The high volume of Xbox 360 sales at this stage in the consoles life is surprising.



Adam Larck: FICTION- It all has to do with marketing. Microsoft is marketing its system as a full entertainment accessory, and it's working because of the programs it has. Sure, Sony has them too, but the cheaper price will draw parents to the 360. Plus, I think some sales are from older 360 owners, like myself, upgrading to the new Slim models as their systems possibly die. I'll be honest, the design and built in Wi-Fi is tempting, but why upgrade when what I have works fine?

Sean Garmer: FICTION- From the beginning Microsoft has been smart with their marketing campaign on the 360. As someone that had the old white box and had a few red rings of death on it before I pawned my last of them. I couldn't imagine not having my slimmer S version now. It is Kinect ready, so whenever I have money to purchase it I can set it up and play with no issues. If it wasn't for the Wi-Fi I wouldn't be able to use netflix or espn or hulu plus on it because my router is on the opposite end of the house I live at. As Adam mentioned I think you do have a lot of the market that is taking advantage of the lower price to switch over to the 360 S version. I do feel that Microsoft has done well in marketing the Kinect as a must have thing for families and also as an entertainment console. It may not have blu-ray but when most people see a big multi-player game these days (at least in the states) they tend to buy a Xbox 360 with it for some reason or another.

Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- Both Sean and Adam make good points, and I'm on my third 360 now (bought the first one at a pawn shop and it RRoD'ed twice and Microsoft would only fix it the first time, so I bought another one, which I traded in towards a Slim model because I travel for work and didn't want to have to worry about forgetting my wireless adapter/hard drive/etc) - with each successive year, Microsoft adds more valuable features to the XBox's dashboard (I'll admit that I've never social networked with it, a feature that I'm sure some people consider valuable,  but I did/do use it extensively for Netflix). Plus, they've still got a vast edge on Sony and Nintendo in online gaming, and with the addition of the Kinect, they've made a significant dent in the casual gamer market as well. Add in the fact that they're adding cable channels and voice controls (through Kinect), and Microsoft has ensured that their sales will stay strong for the rest of the console's lifespan. The only real advantage the PS3 has (and the reason my PS3 now travels with me, while the XBox stays at home) is the Blu-Ray player, but Microsoft has done a good job of negating that by adding the aforementioned streaming services, and releasing Kinect bundles that the average consumer can pick up on sale for less than a PS3.

Tony Acero: FICTION- Hellz nah I ain't surprised, my 360 is the shit! I've honestly never truly experienced a Red Ring of Death (looks vigorously for wood to knock on) and have only truly ever went through two X-Boxes. The first, a white version of the 360 and the most recent, slimmer version, both of which have done right by me. The multi-faceted console is a tool used for so much more than just gaming and this helps with the longevity of the product. I don't foresee the X-Box 360 sales slowing down, either, as they continue to upgrade various looks and products to make it continually appealing.

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7- You'll be picking up Resident Evil: Revelations when it comes out.

Tony Acero: FACT- Hells to the yes! For the first time in a long Time, my interest for Resident Evil series was piqued when 5 came out. It was simple but fun and I still toss it on every now and then to play! It seems they have found their footing and should stick with it. I'm excited for the release and although the trailer was average, I didn't deter my feelings for wanting the game.

Adam Larck: FICTION- You know, 5 never grabbed my interest. I was a fan of RE 4, but something with 5 never clicked for me. That surprises me, too, since I'm usually a fan of co-op games. Honestly, I see myself maybe picking this up months after its release when it hits a sale, but I'm just not interested in it right now.

Sean Garmer: FICTION- I've learned to enjoy Resident Evil as the years have gone by, but I don't own a 3DS and probably won't be getting one any time soon so I won't be getting this. The game's graphics look great for a handheld and I love the new supply scanner thing that's similar to the Metroid Prime system. I like that this game is story driven not like the Mercenaries title. It stars Chris Redfield and Jessica who is trying to fill Jill's shoes and that should be interesting in itself. Maybe if I get a 3DS down the line I'll check it out, but not right now. 

Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- I'll be picking up Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, because I love Left 4 Dead/Left 4 Dead 2; however, I don't have a 3DS and probably won't be getting one any time soon, so RE: Revelations isn't really high on my priorities list. Like Adam, I loved RE4 but RE5 just didn't appeal to me for some reason. If I ever decide to get a 3DS (I'll probably go for a PSVita for my next handheld), there's a good chance I'll pick up RE: Revelations due to my love of zombies, but there's very little chance that'll be in the "when it comes out" time frame from the question.

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8- The next big release to interest you is Mass Effect 3.



Tony Acero: FICTION- I've never been a fan of Mass Effect. Not that I dislike it, I simply have only ever played it once. The thing is, games are like girls. Sure there are some good looking ones out there, but something unique about them must interest me before I just allow myself to fall for it (or them). In the case of Mass Effect, I'm sure I'll try her out, but it's definitely not the most anticipated or interesting.

Adam Larck: FACT- Now this is a series that has always held my interest. I spent a considerable amount of time with the first two games, and really want to see where the series is going. Plus, I want to see how the new co-op mode is handled. I have to admit, even though I kept all my people alive, I'm tempted to go back through ME 2 and kill everyone just to see what happens in the third game.

Sean Garmer: FICTION- I've never really cared for Bioware's RPG's, I didn't play the KOTOR series and I haven't played any of the Mass Effect's either. I'm more of a Japanese RPG kinda guy. However, I am staying in the realm of RPG's for my next release that interests me. I'm a huge Final Fantasy fan (except the two online one's) and at one point until someone stole my PS2 and sold it off along with all my games, I owned all the main FF games. (I didn't realize until two days after it happened and my now ex-girlfriend was pregnant at the time so I couldn't really charge her with theft.) Anyway, I'm almost done with FF 13 and I'm anxiously awaiting FF XIII-2. If it's any better than X-2 I will be ok with it, plus I want to see where they go with the story. There's also Soul Calibur V, Kingdoms of Amalur, and SSX that all come out before Mass Effect 3 that take my interest as well.

Wyatt Beougher: FICTION- This may invalidate all of my other answers, but I've honestly never played a Mass Effect game. They've been on my list if I ever get caught up on the games I already own, but I don't have a great deal of free time to devote to gaming, so I just haven't gotten around to them. The next big release I'm most excited about is definitely Bioshock: Infinite, which can't come out soon enough for me.

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So, does Wyatt lose your vote by having never played a Mass Effect game? Are you as big on rhythm games as Sean Garmer? Does Tony Acero gain your support with his tales of family, or are you giving the win to Adam Larck for all his hard work on 411 Games over the years? Click your choice and the winner will be announced next week!




I'll finish off by giving everyone involved a big thank you, these guys have been great this week so it's a shame we have to pit them against each other. I'm going to award a victory to whoever finished first AND second in the public vote! The biggest thanks goes to you guys for reading, I hope you enjoy the changes but this week was just a bit of fun- but in a few days time, there will be a VGA Special featuring a grudge match both competitors have been asking for! Ladies and Gentlemen, expect FIREWORKS.

See you in 7!