411 Games Fact or Fiction 12.27.11: Max Payne 3, Gotham City Imposters, uDraw and more!
Posted by Stewart Lange on 12.27.2011
Will Star Wars: The Old Republic lose most of its subscribers by June? Will the Max Payne 3 multiplayer seem tagged on? Would Gotham City Imposters would without the Batman tie-in? 411s Jeremy Thomas and Jordan Williams debate these topics and more in this week's 411 Fact or Fiction: Games!
Well, hope you are all fed and rested, because we're right back in with another 411 Games Fact or Fiction! This week, feel honored as none other than Jeremy Thomas has taken time out to compete against the fantastic Jordan Williams. I'm still on holiday time, so let's get to it!
1- The Australian government need to add an 18+ rating to Video Games.
Jeremy Thomas: FACT- At the risk of sounding like the American asshole who thinks that other countries should be doing it the way we do, I think that Australia really should. It's something that has been an issue for a while now and it's obviously something that people within Australia have been pushing for. The country doesn't censor books or movies the same way that it censors games and that's the lynchpin for me; it points to an outmoded, Jack Thompson-esque attitude about video games. At this point the only people that it is hurting are Australian gamers and video game companies; EA just announced that because the country is dragging their feet on the whole thing, Syndicate will not be released there. Without the 18+ rating fans are limited to going without some of the better games out there or pirating them; what's worse, without the 18+ rating, certain games which would be labeled as "adults only" squeak through as 15+ so it's actually a very counterproductive stance by the Australian government. It's just an asinine situation and it needs to be resolved.
Jordan Williams: FACT- I actually think they are to my knowledge but if they aren't then there is pretty much no reason why they shouldn't. It's not even a matter of "OMG SEX AND VIOLENCE IN VIDYA GAEMS" but more of a fact that now the highest selling games IN THE WORLD are rated M and there really isn't an insidious or nefarious reason for it. It's just simply that games are more mature in the content they put forth. We don't have bubbly cutesy Mario viciously murdering turtles and rescuing white bitches anymore. We war games, and assassin games...and...yeah...just...killing. Dammit. I lost where I was going with this. Just approve the damn rating Australia. You are already the most dangerous goddamn place to live in the world with your posionous snakes and spiders and EVIL ASS KANGAROOS everywhere. What harm is adding r18+ going to do?
1 for 1: With any luck, this is already fully in motion, but they are a bit behind the times. Good point on the kangaroos, Jordan.
2- Gotham City Imposters would succeed without the Batman tie-in. .
Jeremy Thomas: FICTION- Without the Batman brand, it would be just another FPS. It's been labeled as a carbon copy of Call of Duty, and why would people buy a Call of Duty rip-off if it wasn't a Batman game or other popular tie-in? Realize here, I'm not saying that it's a bad game; it's gotten some positive buzz and obviously I haven't played it or even had the time to look for much in the way of screenshots or video walkthroughs, so I'm not going to slam the content itself. I just believe it would be completely, 100% lost in a field dominated by Modern Warfare, Battlefield, Halo and such.
Jordan Williams: FICTION-Does Team Fortress still exist? Yes? Then no. This game would not succeed without the Batman tie-in. Hell, I doubt this game would succeed WITH the Batman tie in mostly because it just feels like a mod for a barebones FPS game with a smear of Batman on it. While I haven't played the game in full and can't judge the final product it just dosen't jive with that people come to expect from a console Batman game now. The Arkham Series has set a pretty high bar for all things Batman and this just doesn't look like it's up to the standards.
2 for 2: If it has the same fun factor as say, timesplitters, it may have held it's own without.
3- Old Republic will have lost more than half it's subscribers in six months time.
Jeremy Thomas: FICTION- More than half is definitely a bit harsh. I'm a TOR player myself and I have no desire to drop the game at this point. While there have been a few technical glitches in the first couple weeks of release, that's standard for MMORPGs and not a single thing has been a game-breaker. Now, with that being said, we're looking half a year down the road and I do think that the game will lose a moderate percentage of the players. Tons of people checked it out out of curiosity and I have little doubt that a good number of them will not stay around; not because the game is bad, but because they'll get their enjoyment out of it and move on. I really do believe that TOR will be one of the more successful MMO's because while it's basically WoW with a better storyline and better graphics, that storyline improvement makes a TON of difference. WoW makes you feel like one of many in an adventurous world; Star Wars: TOR makes you feel like the hero in a world surrounded by a cast of supporting characters who just happen to be played by actual people. The Flashpoints (read: Instances) even have their own storylines, instead of just "Hey, go in here and kill all this shit and get this loot." While running through my first couple Flashpoints I found myself thinking about the boss drops as afterthoughts, not the goal. For any MMO that's pretty significant. Now, the key will be BioWare's support and how they patch in new features, tweak the game properly and such. However for my money, this one will be around for a while.
Jordan Williams: FICTION- Although The Old Republic hasn't be as warmly recieved as everyone thinks it should've, I don't think fans will be so quick to drop it like they have virtually every other MMO that has come out since WoW. The main reason I say this is because Star Wars has a fuckton of fans and a very big fanbase. While I do think there will be a significant drop off in subscribers I think they will still keep more than half of the people around by the fact that there is no other place online to get the fix they need for Star Wars gaming now that Star Wars Galaxy was shut down. It all does seems ort of inevitable in the end because the age of the subscriber based MMORPG is dead. Although TOR won't lose all of it's subscribers in six months, I can garuntee that by 12 they will have saddled subscribers with some sort of awesome life-time deal or something and then open the servers to Free to Play.
3 for 3: I think it will. I know a lot of PC gamers and while it's not exactly a cross-section of the market, many of them are already looking at folding in after the trial.
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4- uDraw is the worst peripheral since the power glove.
Jeremy Thomas: FICTION- I'll keep this one simple and to the point. I think the uDraw is dumb, but worst peripheral since the Power Glove? No sir...that would be the Trance Vibrator for the Playstation, which was shipped in Japan with copies of Rez for the PS2. Put it in your pocket or sit on it and it will vibrate while you're playing the game. Worst. Peripheral. Ever.
Jordan Williams: FICTION- This is implying that The Power Glove was BAD, sir! By you even making that comparison it throws this whole question out of whack! The name of the Power Glove has been bismerched for FAR too long and I will no longer stand for it! It was revolutionary and also fashionable! There were movies DEVOTED to The Power Glove such as the classic "The Wizard" and the often overlooked and misunderstood Johnny Mnemonic starring Keanu Reeves! Comparing uDraw to something as HEAVENLY as the Power Glove is just WRONG. NOTHING will compared to The Power Glove, dammit! But seriously, uDraw is pretty bad but it's not as bad as R.O.B. or the Scene-It Remotes for the Xbox 360. It's just useless like 98% of all game peripherals.
4 for 4: The power glove was terrible, but so is the uDraw. The scene it remotes serve a purpose but suffer from a lack of titles.
5- The Steam Sale will prove better value than the Xbox 12 day sale.
Jeremy Thomas: FACT- Well, for me it will thanks to that whole "No Xbox" thing. To be fair, I think that there are some good deals in Xbox's sale; most of them are half-off deals and you have thinks like L.A. Noire's Rockstar Pass, Peggle, Plants v. Zombies, Portal: Still Alive and such. However, Steam's deals run as high as 80 - 90% on games like 80% off Alien vs. Predator ($3.99), 33% of Saints Row 3 ($33.49), 50% off Cities XL ($19.99) and such. If you're feeling really froggy you can get the packages, like EA's pack that includes 60 games and expansions for about $100--and that includes stuff like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Dungeon Siege I - III, Tomb Raider: Anniversary, Kane & Lynch 2 (and all expansions), Just Cause 2 (and all expansions)...my point is, it's not just DLC and cheapie games. For my money, Steam's sale blows Xbox's out of the water, even if I DID have an Xbox.
Jordan Williams: FACT- Yes, because the Steam Sales are like CRACK for the PC. Where on the 12 Days of Xbox you might find some decent games that are cut 50% but on the Steam Sales you have games that got from like 20 dollars to 2 dollars. Or entire packs of content that become borderline free...and a lot of them are games that are on Xbox Live anyway. The best part of any sort of sale is the impulse value of it and the Steam Sale just has TONS of it.
5 for 5: While Xbox aren't showing all of their cards just yet, but Steam sales are ridiculous value for money.
6- Max Payne 3's multiplayer will feel tagged on in the same way as Assassins Creed's.
Jeremy Thomas: FACT- I think it will, but that's not always a bad thing. I kinda like Assassins Creed's multiplayer even if it is a bit of an afterthought. I don't mind when companies focus on a single-player aspect of a game and then throw in multiplayer as an extra, because I enjoy the single-player portion a lot and for me, the multiplayer is an added bonus at best. I'm sure people who live for multi won't be pleased, but for me it'll be just fine. Anyway, yes...Max Payne is a single-player game as a rule and while previews of the multiplayer look pretty good to me, I do think it will be a bit of an afterthought.
Jordan Williams: FACT- It will feel tagged on because I am genuinely of the mind that Rockstar can't do multiplayer for shit. Yeah, that means GTA IV and Red Dead Redemption. Those games were great in single player but Multiplayer (outside of the free modes. Although Cops and Crooks has some fun to it) were shit. Their strength was in the atmosphere and setting. The only thing that might save Max Payne 3 in the multiplayer realm is that Max Payne is a game that is about shooting first and foremost and that lends itself better to an online multiplayer type mode. But I don't think Rockstar can pull it off. But I am open to always being proven wrong.
6 for 6: It seems totally unnecessary. Assassins Creed online was a bit of a waste of disc space for me, but who knows. It might be fun.
BONUS- What are your perfect plans for seeing in the New Year?
Stewart Lange- Well, given that the photo above is a shot of Edinburgh Castle in the centre of my city, which hosts a huge "Hogmanay" party each year, it's maybe a bit surprising that I'm not big on New Year either. I'd rather take advantage of the time off work, catch up on a couple of DVDs or games and chill. Without a hangover, ideally.
Jeremy Thomas- Well, this will be the first New Year's Eve in a while that I'm not working so I don't know. Sitting back, watching a movie, ignoring Dick Clark and having a drink, I suppose. Sue me, but I don't ever look at the New Year as a huge thing like other holidays so it'll just sort of be another day for me. C'est la vie.
Jordan Williams- At the expense of sounding as cliche as possible. I am going to get fucking wasted. I don't drink often but there are three times a year where I set out with the goal of getting "Oh my god I am going to get arrested and/or have sex with an animal" drunk and those are my birthday, the fourth of July, and New Years. And it's great that my birthday IS the fourth of July. Booyah.
Well, the guys go 6 for 6. Do you disagree with them at all? What is your perfect New Year? Drop a line in the comment section, otherwise I'll see you in a weeks time!
STRUTH! I sure do love havin my country talked down to CRIKEY! CHEERS MATE
Posted By: Guest#2463 (Guest) on December 26, 2011 at 11:49 PM
" It's been labeled as a carbon copy of Call of Duty, and why would people buy a Call of Duty rip-off if it wasn't a Batman game or other popular tie-in?"
Nobody calls it that, because it's nothing like CoD. It's Shadowrun with a new skin maybe...but CoD? At least Google this stuff guys.
Posted By: lol (Guest) on December 26, 2011 at 11:59 PM
Jeremy Thomas: FICTION - ...Put it in your pocket or sit on it and it will vibrate while you're playing the game. Worst. Peripheral. Ever.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- --
Sounds more like the best peripheral ever!
Posted By: Guest#1175 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 02:04 AM
" I think the uDraw is dumb, but worst peripheral since the Power Glove? No sir...that would be the Trance Vibrator for the Playstation"
Only because you've never had a girlfriend, Jeremy.
Posted By: Guest#8980 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 02:25 AM
After helping my 7 year old cousin play with her U-Draw, I've realized that it's not all that bad of a peripheral. It ain't for me, but it does what it's supposed to perfectly well. It's not necessary, of course, but it works.
As for Gotham City, it reminds me of that game Lead & Gold, which pretty much bombed during it's original release (maybe I should write about it sometime...). That game couldn't stand out among the pack, even with a neat Western setting. Gotham City would have no chance if it wasn't related to the Batman franchise, straight up.
Posted By: Vince Osorio (Registered) on December 27, 2011 at 02:32 AM
What the hell, that first question was a complete waste of space. The R18+ rating HAS BEEN APPROVED by the Australian government, so saying it should be approved is redundant. Jeremy, it was approved for all the reasons you listed, so again, you're wasting space with redundant arguments that have already been raised and agreed with by the government. Jordan, you're just a fucking idiot. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid, but every single word you typed was completely brain-dead and/or factually incorrect.
What you three don't seem to realise is that there's a difference between APPROVING something and IMPLEMENTING something. The R rating is gonna take a while to be implemented because governments are slow and inefficient. That doesn't mean they didn't approve it.
Should I even bother reading the rest of the column, or is it just more rubbish?
Posted By: Guest#1683 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 03:04 AM
Jeremy, I'm for an R rating for all the reasons you mentioned, but how can you say that 'fans are missing out on some of the better games'? By the time America gets Call of Duty: Syndicate Edition, Australia may already have Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower. So you tell me who's getting the better games. ;)
Posted By: Operation Suck It (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 03:45 AM
So which is the most dangerous country in the Western world? The one with a few snakes and spiders, or the one where people can buy machine guns at their local department store without a thorough background check? Fuck, you guys say some stupid shit sometimes.
Posted By: Guest#3397 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 04:03 AM
@lol: ""It's been labeled as a carbon copy of Call of Duty, and why would people buy a Call of Duty rip-off if it wasn't a Batman game or other popular tie-in?"
Nobody calls it that, because it's nothing like CoD. It's Shadowrun with a new skin maybe...but CoD? At least Google this stuff guys."
Point of fact: The Escapist said the following in its E3 preview of the game: "In nearly every facet, Imposters recalls CoD." Thus, it has been labeled as a CoD carbon copy.
Posted By: Jeremy Thomas (Registered) on December 27, 2011 at 04:48 AM
You guys are right ToR hasnt been recived well..... by WoW trolls, check gamerankings guys 94/100 is the current average (mind u only 2 reviews) but even checking lesser review sites not featured by gamerankings the lowest score I have seen by a unbiased reviewer is 80/100, I personally can't stop playing the game and the only reason im here positing this is cause the servers are down til the AM to get patch 1.01 in, I am positive the mainstream sites (ign,gamespot,gamespy,ect) give this game no lower then a 8.5 (but im expecting 9/9.5's), It is the best MMO ever released at launch and give it the 6-7 years wow has had to add more content and it's only going to get better, It will be around for a long time. The game had over 1 million registered subscribers on the 22nd, 2 days after launch.
Posted By: Money (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 05:02 AM
Man up aussie, i come from nz and we have an 18+ rating. How is your country unable to have sorted this when nz has?
Posted By: Thatsrightiwentthere (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 06:58 AM
What the hell, that first question was a complete waste of space. The R18+ rating HAS BEEN APPROVED by the Australian government, so saying it should be approved is redundant. Jeremy, it was approved for all the reasons you listed, so again, you're wasting space with redundant arguments that have already been raised and agreed with by the government. Jordan, you're just a fucking idiot. I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just stupid, but every single word you typed was completely brain-dead and/or factually incorrect.
---
Aw, come on you Kiwis! Not EVERYTHING I said was factually inaccurate! Australia IS home to about 100 species of venomous snakes and 17 types of deadly spiders. I also mentioned Australia. Also most of all I was the only one who mentioned that Australia was already adding/implementing the R18+ rating BEFORE I began to answer the question.
But I completely apologize if by somehow stating facts about the great land of Australia somehow rustled your jimmies. I'll be sure to stick to more socially accepted forms of trolling such as references to Crocodile Hunters, Crocodile Dundee, Shrimps on Barbies, Baby Eating Dingos, mentions of the word s 'Croikey', 'G'day', and 'hea' as well as quotes such as THIS IS A KNOIFE.
I would tell you to take a chill pill and have a laugh but I am sure you probably already are thrown into a frothy rage over the fact that I called you a Kiwi a few lines ago.
Posted By: Ogre (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 09:41 AM
"Man up aussie, i come from nz and we have an 18+ rating. How is your country unable to have sorted this when nz has?
Posted By: Thatsrightiwentthere (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 06:58 AM"
Because you never had to deal with Michael Atkinson, aka. a religious fundamentalist who did everything in his power to hold back the R rating for years and years (even though everyone else voted for it, and most of the population voted for it). However, he's no longer an Attorney-General, so he can't hold it back any longer. The issue has been resolved and it just has to be implemented now.
Posted By: Guest#7567 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Re: Post by Ogre
Okay, I'll assume you actually are Jordan and not just some random guy imitating him...
I love having a laugh at Aussie stereotypes if they're funny, and I actually thought the EVIL ASS KANGAROOS line was kinda funny (also, why would I get offended by being called a Kiwi? I should be so lucky ;) ). However, everything else you said was completely stupid, facepalm-inducing drivel, and was painful to read. Do you really want me to break it down for you?
Firstly, if you KNEW the rating was being implemented, why chuck a tantrum over the fact that it's not being implemented? And if you didn't know, Google it!
The highest selling games in the world are rated M? Yes, and those games are legal in Australia. Irrelevant.
"We don't have bubbly cutesy Mario"? We did, just last month in fact. And you know what? Super Mario 3D Land was probably better than every Generic Brown War Game of 2011 put together. Whatever point or joke you were trying to make here, it sucked.
"Just approve the damn rating Australia". You mean like they already did, months ago? Irrelevant.
"What harm is adding r18+ going to do?" None, which is why they approved it. MONTHS ago. Irrelevant. Hell, it would have been approved YEARS ago if not for one (yeah, ONE) religious nutjob holding it back. You know, like how ONE guy in America wanted to invade Iraq while everyone else opposed it.
"You are already the most dangerous goddamn place to live in the world"... Part of me thought this was a joke, but it was still in pretty bad taste (also, the stuff surrounding it sounded pretty serious). Do you not see how telling an entire country that they're stupid and 'not mature' for not doing something that they already did, and then claiming that the country is more dangerous than living in Somalia or Libya or Afghanistan or any other war-torn or disaster-ridden hell-hole, could MAYBE be thought of as insulting or being in bad taste?
The point is, if Matthew Sforcina wrote a paragraph dissing America, whether it was intended as a joke or not, tons of Americans would lose their shit. But when it's about Aussies, we have to take it as a joke even if it's mean-spirited and not clever or funny in any way? Um, okay. And speaking of facts, Australia may have 100 kinds of snakes and 17 kinds of spiders, but it was also voted by the UN as the 2nd most liveable country on Earth (1st was Norway). You can't justify a bad joke as a 'fact' when the facts are wrong, silly.
Oh, and not once in your reply did you come anywhere near addressing the issue or saying anything coherent. That's what I was most offended by, but I guess it's the 411 standard these days, right? I laugh at Aussie stereotypes, but I don't laugh at rubbish journalism.
So tell me again what you said that was 'accurate'?
Posted By: Guest#1683 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 11:24 AM
You guys are right ToR hasnt been recived well..... by WoW trolls, check gamerankings guys 94/100 is the current average (mind u only 2 reviews) but even checking lesser review sites not featured by gamerankings the lowest score I have seen by a unbiased reviewer is 80/100, I personally can't stop playing the game and the only reason im here positing this is cause the servers are down til the AM to get patch 1.01 in, I am positive the mainstream sites (ign,gamespot,gamespy,ect) give this game no lower then a 8.5 (but im expecting 9/9.5's), It is the best MMO ever released at launch and give it the 6-7 years wow has had to add more content and it's only going to get better, It will be around for a long time. The game had over 1 million registered subscribers on the 22nd, 2 days after launch.
Posted By: Money (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 05:02 AM
^^This. Also, what they failed to realize when they said "only" a million users at launch is that they limited it to pre-orders and only a few non-preorders at launch to stagger the launch. They haven't mass produced to put any copies on store shelves yet until the servers get more stabilized. This will definitely hit their goal of 1.5 million by February, and I'd say only 10% of the people I've encountered in-game have mentioned not continuing. Most of the bashing or people saying they won't continue subscribing, are just WoW trolls. Yet they're still so sick of WoW, they had to come and try this out, probably just so they can stick with what they're sick with and claim its still the best, when its clearly not.
Posted By: Guest#1818 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 02:13 PM
"
Point of fact: The Escapist said the following in its E3 preview of the game: "In nearly every facet, Imposters recalls CoD." Thus, it has been labeled as a CoD carbon copy.
Posted By: Jeremy Thomas (Registered) on December 27, 2011 at 04:48 AM"
JT, this is why we don't quote the Escapist... Especially since that site is a pile of crap, who doesn't know how to manage it's own finances.
Posted By: Oi. (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 02:52 PM
We're seriously quoting The Escapist now? What's next, are we going to take Doug Walker's horseshit movie summaries as "reviews" now?
Posted By: Guest#3562 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 03:35 PM
"I'll keep this one simple and to the point. I think the uDraw is dumb, but worst peripheral since the Power Glove? No sir...that would be the Trance Vibrator for the Playstation, which was shipped in Japan with copies of Rez for the PS2. Put it in your pocket or sit on it and it will vibrate while you're playing the game. Worst. Peripheral. Ever."
Obviously, you're doing it wrong.
"Max Payne 3's multiplayer will feel tagged on in the same way as Assassins Creed's."
The phrase it tacked on.
Posted By: G-Walla (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 04:38 PM
Incorrect. The Rez vibrator will stimulate your significant other while you both trip out playing Rez.
Posted By: Guest#8177 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 08:41 PM
6 months? I don't think they will even retain by February. If the IP was enough to retain the Star Wars nerds, Star Wars Galaxy would never have shut down. Clearly just being a Star Wars game is not enough to ensure success.
Posted By: Guest#8811 (Guest) on December 27, 2011 at 09:43 PM
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