Working Title 8.08.08: Working Change - Dynasty Warriors

Posted by Jordan Williams on 08.08.2008

Man, the column is out on 8/8/8. That's so awesome you just might forget that it's late this week.

Welcome back to the #1 column to think that Yoda, Darth Vader, The Apprentice and ALL of the bonus characters in SCIV are throwaways and don't do anything for the game as a whole...WORKING TITLE.

Yep, my rant about SCIV continues as now I've gotten some really good time with it I can see why a lot of people are complaining about the inclusion of those characters. The Apprentice is just a giant ball of cheap lameness and Yoda.

Well, I play as Astaroth, which should explain why I hate Yoda.

Either way, last week I went on a rant about RE0 and how I think the change to RE4 actually helped the franchise. This week however, I'm going to point out a series that DEFINITELY need to go ahead and make a chance soon lest they be left in the passed as painfully stale games...sadly, this one has already hit that point and then some.

So what can we do to save it? How can it be saved...I don't know. But hopefully I'll think of something.

Dynasty Warriors, it's time for a change.

Working Change: Dynasty Warriors



Man, if you didn't see this coming you should probably pinch your nipples with a stapler. If there is ANY game in the history of games that DESPERATELY needs to change its good ole Dynasty Warriors. Despite the game having a GREAT story (if you actually...you know...read the story.) it just seems like every single game outside of the first have been the same damn thing over...and over...and over.

It's hard to believe that after SIX sequels it's still the same. Countless video game magazines have called them on it, and countless other fans have called for Koei to make some sort of change to make this series worth it. Koei has soundly not listened and I think this has just gone on far enough. This game has survived THREE generations with only having ONE major overhaul, and said overhaul was only in the first sequel where they shifted the game away from a fighting game and into a hack n' slash. Koei made some serious bank on it and never looked back.

If there is one game that has held true to the old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" it's Dynasty Warriors, but just because something isn't broke doesn't mean that it doesn't need a tune up and a new coat of shine.

What can we do?

That's the big question here...what can we do? Well there are actually a lot of answers to that one. We can do damn near ANYTHING and it would make Dynasty Warriors a pretty new game. Hell, I'm not above turning this into a Chinese Hockey game if I have to. Sure, changing the whole genre of the game might be a bit extreme, but for a game like Dynasty Warriors that has exhausted almost EVERY option in the hack n' slash world I think they almost HAVE to change. But for those of you, who fear change, don't worry. I'll get into things they can add to the existing game a bit later.

For the sake of our sanity, I went ahead and narrowed the list of genres the game could become down to three. I'll discuss why they could work, and why the COULDN'T work as well as the possibility that it could go over well. Man, I really do love doing these sorts of things.

Let's kick it off with the genre that no one has seemed to get right on consoles so far, but maybe...just maybe Koei could do it.


Real Time Strategy

You can stop laughing now.

Seriously.

....Okay, you can laugh.

Yep, an RTS game. I don't know about you but when I hear about a game based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms the first thing that actually pops into my mind is an RTS game where you control the respective three kingdoms and change the tide of history or follow it's path. Of course, Koei was thinking something different because what we got in the end was a hack n' slash with bad voice acting and some of the best butt rock in the history of the world.

But could an RTS DW game actually work? All of the tools or there. We have a compelling story, good characters, and even in the hack n' slash we have tons and TONS of normal soldiers just laying around waiting to get slaughtered.

Since DW's fan base aren't exactly the PC crowd, this game would almost have to come out for consoles, which poses a problem in that of itself because it's widely known that console RTS game just DON'T work right so far, there hasn't been one that has really played well without a lot of frustration at first nor has one felt really comfortable. Given the fact that this is Koei, I don't think are going to be the ones that go out and build a new engine from the ground up in order to make this work. These ARE the same guys who have pretty much released the same game over and over again for the last decade.



As for the game itself, RTS games are always about a simple design that gets more complicated over time. We could leave this to be a simple "You vs. You" and let the micro-managing begin. But Koei had obviously gone through the trouble of making sure almost every single big name in RoT3K was representing in some sort of light, so cutting the generals out of the game really wouldn't make too much sense.

This is where that loveable 'Hero' unit could kick in. Sure, you can have your giant army of useless pawns, but then when you sent Cao Cao into the battlefield and then you could have some fun. Perhaps at that point the game could focus back to its old hack n' slash style for a moment. For those of you that know, they already DID try something similar to this with Dynasty Warriors: Empires. But that really wasn't the same thing. In that version of the game the only thing you really did was dictate where your forces would move. You didn't get a chance to plan strategic routes or manage the army themselves. Perhaps a game with such rich war background could benefit from such a change.

But then again, it might not.

Like I said earlier with console RTS games there's always a minor major chance this could go horribly, horribly wrong. Halo Wars could be the one that does it, but then again this is coming from a company that has the financial bank and the name of Halo to work with so on name recognition alone you could at least guarantee that SOMEONE is going to like it. Dynasty Warriors doesn't have that same recognition, in fact the vast majority of the gaming world has turned on this franchise and doomed it to mediocrity and the few fans it has left actually LIKE the type of game it is.

Honestly, while I would love to see them take the game in this sort of direction, I just don't think that Koei has enough balls and skill to pull it off, and then I don't think it would do much to attract new fans, if anything it'll just drive the original fans away.


RPG

Oh come on, it's not THAT far fetched. We already have a GREAT story to use as a backdrop, and like it or not they have gone a step further and turned all of the characters in to male models with spiky hair and oversized weapons. Seeing as this is one of the 'greatest historical stories ever told', I'm sure with the right gameplay mechanics and the right team they could easily make some sort of action RPG with it. Hell, a single story of ONE kingdom could get you through a game.

Dynasty Warriors had already set up a lot of the ground work; throughout the games they have done a good job on focusing and explaining the roles of some of the bigger (and far, far lesser) characters of the works. These stories have all been expanded on and could work well in the confines for the RPG. Look at Zhao Yun for instance, although he was explained to be quite the badass in Rot3K he really wasn't that integral to the Three Kingdoms era but Koei managed to not only turn him into one of the central characters in the game...they actually turned him into the poster boy for the entire franchise. Another good example would be Wei Yan, who really didn't do SHIT the entire time but the guys at Koei managed to give him a completely fleshed out character.



Now for the people who might not buy a DW RPG, I say this...what can really go wrong? It for damn sure can't be the combat system, with games like the Tales series and FF now all adopting real time combat I see no reason why DW can't do the same thing. The cast of characters, as I have mentioned many times, is already there for the using onto of some really great battle groups and personal stories to use (Two Words: Sima Yi). Call me silly but I think a DW RPG MIGHT just work.

Of course games suddenly taking the RPG route as a means of change hasn't always worked in its favor. People always love to cite Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario as great achievements in games crossing over to the RPG world, but people rarely remember the games that tried but failed. How many of you honestly played Megaman: Command Mission.

Okay, out of all three of you how many of you actually liked the game?

See?

Turning DW into an RPG even for one game can have some serious consequences, Command Mission for all intents and purposes killed the X series for Megaman(to me it had already died passed X3 anyway). What's worse than a game that's gotten stale? A game that goes out with a whimper and not a bang.

I think if Koei has the balls to do it, perhaps an RPG for DW is in order, but the risk there is just too high...then again, this is Dynasty Warriors who would really miss it if it DID die?


Fighting Game


Wait...this wouldn't work too well...we already have Soul Calibur. That and for the people who have stuck with Dynasty Warriors from the beginning, they would know that the first game was actually a fighting game. Who would've thought that taking it from a fighting game that actually came out before Soul Calibur turned into the beat 'em up we all know and love. Actually, according to the lucky few who've gotten to play it, DW 1 was actually a pretty complex and deep fighting game in the sense of the often missed Bushido Blade.

Other than that, there's not really much I can say about it, I could go on and on about how they could use their massive selection of characters to go back to or a next gen version that could really re-invent the series...but now we just Soul Calibur IV and yep...doesn't stand a chance nowadays.

At least the cast of Dynasty Warriors would be infinitely better than the Star Wars and 'bonus' characters. I'd take Lu Bu over The Apprentice any day.



So yeah, while the fighting game would be a much needed change, it'll just be too little too late given the current landscape of fighting games in the world.

The Little Things

But of course, for some games you might not have to create a drastic change, perhaps just adding to the game and actually giving it a new feel by adding in some things that could perhaps turn the series around. As much as I bagged on Dynasty Warriors today, I will openly admit that they have changed some things between the 6 core games. They've added in the horses, the weapons system, the tag team system, the officer and guard captain systems. But there are still some things that can be done...

Four Player Co-Op

We've had the two player split screen mode for quite awhile now, and while I DO love games that do this, DW should really go the Battlefront route and let us mix it up with some four player split screen action.

Online Campaigns

I'm not the biggest fan of XBL/PSN but I know I'm a big minority (OXYMORON!) in that regard. People love the SHIT out of online play and with a game that has such big maps and battles such as DW, there's really not excuse why you can't play this game online with friend in Co-Op or even team up with some others around the world and really wage battles.

Either leave the game in its original language or GET BETTER VOICE ACTORS

I'm never one to really care about voice acting be it in video games or anime unless it's hilarious bad. DW stopped being hilariously bad 5 games ago. I know they pull from the same stock of actors for everyone, but with a game that's sold so many copies and raked in so much dough, you'd think they'd either start giving us the option to leave the original audio track on or just hire some better actors.

Less Clones

While DW does have a vast cast of characters, it is a bit sad that most of the characters are just simply clones of other characters. I NEVER like clone characters, even in games where it's not even that noticeable like Soul Calibur (Rock/Astaroth) and it just screams of laziness. The game has so much creativity that they can give everyone all of these cool weapons and storylines, but it can't be bothered to go ahead and at least have everyone have SOME sort of different animation? For shame, Koei...FOR SHAME.

So when it comes to changes, it seems like there's a lot of options for Dynasty Warriors to take, the one thing that there isn't a lot of is time. DW is a great game (I personally like it.) but even it's most diehard fans can agree that it is DEFINITELY in need of a change. One or anything DW needs to make the leap into some new territory or the already limited release the games have could become even harder to come by...and not in the good way.

Working Feedback

"How this was ever called a great control scheme is more than beyond me"

*sigh* Another ignorant person who doesn't grasp the fact that RE4 has the EXACT SAME CONTROLS as any other. Seriously, what is the deal with people who think the controls were any better?

I love RE4, but it doesn't really *feel* like a Resident Evil game. ~ Guest, as per rules of Working Title, those who reply as guests will get nicknames. I shall nickname you Sir Nitpick Von Neckbeard.

*sigh* Another person who doesn't take 2 seconds to type in a name. Yes, the controls for Resident Evil 1-0 were the same, but a control scheme does not just mean what you do to move the character, in games that work in 3D space the camera also plays a very large factor. You can have a game with the best 'movement' in the world, but if you can't see that movement and it doesn't work well with the camera then you obviously cannot play the game.

And it seems you did miss the point of the column overall just to harp on one point, the fact that this didn't "feel" like a Resident Evil game just might very well be a food thing. At that point in the series life, I think everyone had got tired of that feeling and wanted something different and that's what Resident Evil 4 delivered.

when I first heard about this it reminded me of your article
http://www.411mania.com/games/columns/62926/Working-Title-11.08.07:-Massive-Effect---Avatar:-The-Last-Airbender.htm

I haven't seen anything from you on this. Not even an "I told you so" or nothing. I don't remember where we were when you wrote that article but personally I was a bit let down that they weren't going for four seasons. That said I've seen shows/series end in worse ways. (Sliders comes to mind, along with Angel, Animorphs and every other forgotten series that ends by refusing resolution). Back on topic I totally dug your article. It was spot on about Avatar's potential as an MMO. Now that we know it's on the way

Now that Comic-Con is over I wanna see how they're stacking up against what you suggested/predicted.

http://kotaku.com/5029183/nickelodeon-rolls-out-avatar-mmo
http://pcgames.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/15903/Nickelodeon_Unveils_Avatar_MMO.html
http://www.crispygamer.com/news/index.php/2008-07-25/avatar-mmo-announced/

ah the irony that people /were/ working on an Avatar MMO at your post date but now probably have to stop
http://www.avaportal.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=products&action=display&thread=1131 ~ Wolfkin

...Those sons of bitches. You all saw it, I came up with the idea first. I say we all sue. Bastards.

Resident Evil may be a bad example to use for the CGi vs. live action argument. The Resident Evil Live action films are successful, and there will more than likely be another sequel coming. This animated feature, Degeneration from what I understand is an extension of the movie universe, and not the game universe. I may be wrong, so don't quote me on that.

That being said, I would like to see CGI vs. Live action be handled on a film by film basis. You take something like Final Fantasy, or Metroid, where it will more than likely cost a small fortune to produce the effects needed, CGI would be the way to go. But from more than a cost effective point, with all the fantastical elements involved in those franchises, it makes sense to use CGI. A giant CGI ship moving through a CGI world will look better than the same CGI ship moving across a live action backdrop.
However when it comes to movies based on your less visually reliant games, Live action is definitely a viable option. Max Payne for example, is a movie I am looking forward to. I think when you have concept such as the story behind Max Payne, the live action element helps play into people's suspension of belief. You are more likely to sympathize with a live action Max Payne, as opposed to a CGI Max Payne doing all the bullet time stuff from the game. ~Toddo

Damn it, I love you Toddo. You give such good comments that I can't even expand on them. I will say that Max Payne however looks VERY good. Hopefully it has all of the action of the first one and not so much of the emo whiny stuff of the second one.

Seeing as the column is already late, I'll go ahead and sign off here. However I will give you a small mini Working Question.

Working Question

Let's leave it short and simple: What game do YOU think needs to make a change for the better?

Until next time, I'm Jordan Williams...and ironically I have to take a drug test the same day I go see Pineapple Express.