Three Player Co-Op 02.18.09: Street Fighter IV, Guitar Hero Greatest Hits

Posted by Drew Robbins on 02.18.2009

With guests Joe Roche and Trace Aber alongside him, Drew Robbins takes a look at the pressing issues of last week, including Harmonix firing back at Konami, Sonic and Mario returning to the Olympics, and Activision making yet another Guitar Hero game.



Three Player Co-Op – Week 3

Welcome chumps and chumpettes alike, to the weekly extravaganza known only as Three Player Co-Op. Another week filled with tragic financial crisis and shovelware has passed, leaving us beastly 411 writers to discuss and complain about the week that was. Lets meet the players for this week…

Player One – Drew Robbins - As the wisest of the dreaded Three Robbins, Drew Robbins presides over Three Player Co-Op with his incredible moderating skills. In a mere two weeks I have racked up six comments…which is like 1/16th of what the 10th Hour gets. Oh well, I'll just lower my expectations, time to compete with my old column, the PC-Centric Extravaganza! It got about two comments while I moderated it, I win!

Player Two – Trace Aber - Trace is one of 411's more recent recruits, or in simpler terms, a newbie! And as such, he is the first newbie to appear on Three Player Co-Op, what an achievement. Each week he puts together Living Life, a look at the events of the mythical service known as Xbox Live.

Player Three – Joe Roche - What is this, two 360 writers in one column? Maybe I should get Mark to even this out…but anyhow, Roche is our resident news reporter for the 360, in a column he dubs The Full Circle.

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Three Player Co-Op – Week 2

Topic #1: Midway, a mainstay of the gaming industry for quite some time now, filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. Now while this form of bankruptcy still allows them to function as a normal company, the term bankruptcy is never a good thing. Lets take this moment to reminisce on the good days of Midway…

Drew Robbins - Readers of my past work on 411 may know that I am a fairly large detractor of the Mortal Kombat franchise. You see, I've always been a Street Fighter guy, and just the thought of endorsing my arch nemesis franchise made me sick to my stomach. But now, with my enemies close to going under, I will wax nostalgically about the company that brought forth one of the most controversial games of all time.

It may surprise those who have only been playing games since the rise of the Xbox, but Midway used to make good…no, great games. NBA Jam and Mortal Kombat II are classics that will be remembered for ages to come. While NBA Jam gave rise to a new, arcade focused, direction in sports games, Mortal Kombat brought out the blood and guts that little boys craved and parents feared. I fondly recall playing the second Mortal Kombat and feeling like such a rebel, what would my parents think when I gave Liu Kang the uppercut which would send him into a horrible death in a spike pit.

All good things must end though, and Midway soon took a horrible turn in the last generation. Mortal Kombat returned, yes, but it was a different game that put the original's reliance on button mashing to shame. The games were not terrible but they all became incrementally worse, leading up to the terrible TNA: Impact. It was at that moment, when I put down my controller after a session of Impact, that I realized Midway was finished. How can you recover from a game like that?

Trace Aber - Midway…what has happened to a once great publisher that has given us titles such as the Mortal Kombat series, the Cruis'n series (which I used to play all the time as a kid, and still do when I see a machine), Killer Instinct, NBA Jam, and a handful of other great franchises. It is crazy to think that a company with that kind of name power can so easily fall…but fall they have. In 1998 Midway became an independent company and three years later they shut down their entire arcade division, which began the series of bad news for the company. But this is about the good days, the days when getting a game from Midway generally meant you were getting a good to great game. Who can ever forget the first time they played Mortal Kombat and saw their first fatality? That's right – nobody. Or the endless amount of tournaments that you held with your friends trying to crown the NBA Jam championship (because I know I had about thirty)? Midway has provided us with some of our fondest gaming memories and it is a shame that they are having so many troubles, but they are not the only ones and as long as they are still up and running there is always that small glimmer of hope that one day, maybe, just maybe, things will be back like they used to.

Joe Roche - Chapter 11 doesn't really mean anything for Midway. As a matter of fact they'll probably end up better off in the end for filing for protection. I always point to the Pittsburgh Penguins when people ask me how Chapter 11 works. Does anyone remember when they filed and then made Mario Lemieux the owner because he was the largest creditor of the team? The Penguins are much better off now having gone through the reorganization and I think the same thing will happen to Midway. In truth though this has been a long time coming because Midway was a great arcade game developer and a lousy console developer. Sure the Mortal Kombat (that they had console rights to) games were decent, but how do you develop and publish NBA Jam and then lose the console rights? Just taking a quick glance at the console games developed/published by Midway I can count the number of them that I enjoyed on one hand (almost one finger). I enjoyed Ready 2 Rumble, and a couple of the Mortal Kombat games they released on the console were decent (although I'm not a huge fighter fan as you'll notice later). In reality the fall of Midway started when the arcades began to disappear, and if they don't find someone within that studio who can develop quality titles that people actually want to play this Chapter 11 will only delay the inevitable liquidation that is to follow. They had a decent financial hit with Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe, and even though they've now sold the property the Wheelman game looked promising. That's a nice sign for the company but when giants like EA are struggling to keep profits up what hope does Midway really have?

Oh and to answer the question – Rampage bitches. The good old days of Midway for me include the arcade at Hampton Beach and playing Rampage. For whatever reason that game never translated to the console for me, but damn did I love the crap out of it at the arcade.

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Topic #2: Everyone loved Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games, right? No? Oh, well, too bad, because the game is getting a sequel. This time, Mario and Sonic compete at the much maligned winter Olympics. Any chance that this will be anything more than shovelware?

Drew Robbins - It would be very easy for me to let my nostalgia take over and say that, hey, perhaps Sega can turn around and make a great party game that brings Mario and Sonic together. Unfortunately, Sega doesn't do such things anymore, and from the early details this game isn't looking to change that.

My scars from the last Mario and Sonic Olympics game are still fresh, the minutes I spent frantically waggling my controller still clear in my mind. Now Sega has a new tool of destruction, the balance board. This leads me to believe that every mini-game will just be an even worse version of some of the games you could find in Wii Fit. Now don't get me wrong, I actually did enjoy Wii Fit, but I own Wii Fit. Do I need to own two games that play almost identical? Well I do own Gears of War and Gears of War 2 Of course not!

Trace Aber - First off, allow me to first point out I hate the winter Olympics in video game form. I remember playing Nagano Winter Olympics '98 (which is a long title for such a bad game) and hating every single second I spent holding the controller in my hand. While I have a love for both Sonic and Mario, I just do not see this game being worth the purchase price. I only played the first Mario and Sonic game for a brief period of time but I did not experience anything that made me want to play any longer – and that was with the biggest athletic event as the backdrop. Now they are focusing on a smaller event (especially in terms of how much the public, much less video gamers, care about) and will probably reuse many elements from the first game, partly out of necessity and partly out of laziness. On the business side of things, however, the game will probably sell enough to justify producing it as many clueless adults will assume a game with both Sonic AND Mario has to be good and will then buy the game based off that. As far as game quality goes, there will be no way it is worth the price.

Joe Roche - Perhaps I'm the wrong person to ask this question to because I tend to judge these things on units sold (as you'll see in the next answer). For me personally, I don't give a crap either way about Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games but the game sold 6.84 MILLION COPIES worldwide. In case you were wondering that's about as many copies as Metal Gear Solid 4 (3.87 million) and Little Big Planet (2.04) sold COMBINED. So while this question is worded to make it seem like the game was worthless garbage that nobody played, the truth is that a lot of people played this game, and it made a lot of money. In the current economic times (this is an issue I keep coming back to I know but it's the elephant in the room) if you have a franchise that is a license to print money why would you not exploit that? Honestly if I had to choose between Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, or the piece of crap Beijing game that SEGA released I'd pick Mario every day of the week. As a matter of fact I'd hazard a guess that I will play Mario and Sonic at the Winter Games at least once because it's aimed directly at the type of gamer that I'm married to. Sure we'd love every Wii game to be Mario Kart, or MadWorld but the truth is that the Olympics have always been a cash cow reason to make an arguably terrible game why should that change now? Look I think we're past the point where the sanctity of Mario or Sonic is still at issue. I can't blame Nintendo for releasing a Winter Olympics version of their summer hit, and I wouldn't even blame people for trying it out. The Olympics are the perfect forum for the Wii, it's a collection of mini games that you can use the wiimote for – what's not to love/capitalize on?

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Topic #3: Remember that whole crazy story about Konami suing Harmonix? Well now the shoe is on the other foot, as Harmonix is taking legal action against Konami, for violating patents on Rock Band's "superior" instrument controllers. Your thoughts?

Drew Robbins - I'll start off by saying that I love how Harmonix declared their instruments superior, always nice to see a company release a statement of superiority. All I can really say is that this is completely Konami's fault. I have good reason to believe that had Konami never sued Harmonix, none of this would have ever happened. If you are going to go out on a limb and sue someone for seemingly random reasons, then you better expect to get a little legal action coming your way.

Trace Aber - I try to avoid all things Rock Band if humanly possible just because I am so tired of all the downloadable content. I guess it is a thing of "what goes around comes around," which means why not? Harmonix does have the superior controllers, seeing as how they program the game specifically for them. Personally, I think both lawsuits are dumb and just a way to knock out a huge chunk of competition. Then again, I'm no legal expert (though I could contact one).

Joe Roche - Ok as the official lawyer on the payroll I'll weigh in on this topic, but first we have to address Harmonix's prayer for relief. According to what I've seen they've asked for the Court to "block sales" of Rock Revolution. Anyone else see the irony in that request? They've also asked for "cash considerations" which in this day and age is like asking for a stable full of unicorns. The suit is currently in Texas because that is where Konami brought it, but Harmonix filed their complaint in Boston, and they are trying to get the case consolidated and transferred up here because Boston is where Harmonix is located (Cambridge to be precise). Quick rundown – Konami makes a game called Beatmania (and Karaoke Revolution) and patent the controller peripherals. Then Harmonix comes along with a little game called Rock Band, and more recently Rock Band 2 which uses similar peripherals shaped like instruments, although the crux of the suit I believe stems from the microphone (shocking I know). On Dec. 2 of last year Harmonix patents their instruments after Konami brought suit against them in July. The patent is for a more advanced technology then the one used by Konami in their previous titles. But then Konami releases Rock Revolution, and now Harmonix says that Konami is using THEIR intellectual property for these games. Sounds stupid right? That's because it is. In my mind the purpose of Harmonix's filing suit is two fold, on the one hand they will get the case moved to Federal Court in Massachusetts, and second they'll probably just reach a settlement on both cases with Konami and brush this entire episode under the rug. So those are my thoughts, this was a strategic move by Harmonix to pressure Konami to settle and be done with it.

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Topic #4: Guitar Hero is a series renowned for being Activision's cash-cow, and is often the punch line of many jokes for that very reason. Now, it was kind of amusing when they released a bad 80's compilation, and Guitar Hero Aerosmith was a chuckleworthy addition to the franchise, but this latest scheme takes the cake. Activision is releasing Guitar Hero: Greatest Hits, a collection of the best songs to ever appear in Guitar Hero. Let your rage flow freely…

Drew Robbins - I love rhythm games and the DLC that now accompanies them, but one thing I can absolutely not stand is new songs which are obtained only through the purchase of a brand new, $50 game. But these songs they are charging a high price for aren't even new! Now I've seen a lot of stupid things in my days, but this one might just take the cake. Sure, maybe I want to play "Killer Queen" from Guitar Hero 1 and "Through the Fire and the Flames" from Guitar Hero 2, but I'm not going to buy a completely new game. I think switching discs is a much more rational course of action.

Trace Aber - I see both sides of the situation here. On the business side, why wouldn't they release a "Best Of'? Sure, it is stupid as hell but it will sell. People will want to buy it so they don't have to switch their discs constantly. Yeah, it's a shame that people are that lazy, but I know people who would do that. But from a logical consumer perspective, it's obvious that Activision is doing this simply to milk the series for every single bit of its worth. The whole music genre is being saturated and I stopped caring after I bought Rock Band. There's too many accessories and side games, it's not even worth it. If anything, they should just release DLC for a long while.

Joe Roche - I'm not going to produce any rage in my answer and here is why. Activision reported that last year they recorded record setting revenues and profits to the point where they exceeded $5 billion dollars for 2008. I don't think I need to remind anyone about the state of the gaming industry right now but if you forgot go to your local games store – there is probably a former developer/publisher/code writer working behind the desk. Sure Activision has been milking the Guitar Hero franchise, and seems ready to continue that trend in 2009, but when you look at their returns can you fault them? In a day and age where gaming companies are taking hundreds of billions of dollars in loses every quarter, Activision has been able to weather the storm up to this point, and I wouldn't fault them for going back to the well a couple more times with the Guitar Hero franchise. Plus it's tough for me to fault them when along with these Guitar Hero offshoots they'll also be producing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, a new racing game IP from the developers of Project Gotham Racing (Bizarre Creations), the absolutely awesome looking Raven Studios developed Singularity, and the frantic superhero themed Prototype. I'm also pretty sure that Raven is developing Marvel Ultimate Alliance for this year, and the rumor mill is churning about Blizzard and StarCraft II. If you're counting at home that's three brand new IPs, two highly anticipated sequels, and possibly StarCraft II all coming from the same company that is giving us a collection of greatest hits in Guitar Hero. It's tough for me to vent when all of that is taken into consideration, although I will say that anyone who buys Guitar Hero: Greatest Hits (unless it's a $29.99 title and you don't have any the other versions of GH) is an idiot.

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Topic #5: By the time this column is published, the day of our lord will have passed. Yes, you read that right; Street Fighter IV will already be on store shelves! Only one more week! How pumped are you for the return of the greatest fighting franchise of all time?

Drew Robbins - It feels like it has been ages since Capcom released the debut trailer, showing off the incredible art-style which would be accompanying Street Fighter's leap to next-gen. At last, the time has come for this beautiful piece of work to slide gracefully into my Playstation 3, a place where it will remain for weeks on end. The game is a pretty safe bet, you know what you are going to get with a Street Fighter game, and I suppose that is what has me so excited. Just a few months back I purchased Street Fighter II Turbo HD, and was instantly hooked for weeks, and that game is practically ancient. So a new Street Fighter, with a new feel, tweaked gamplay, incredible graphics, and online play? Heck yeah.

Trace Aber - I am extremely excited that the date is finally coming. Who wouldn't be? They are making an already great fighter even better and is completely taking over the genre this year. Not to mention it's the first new numbered game in what seems like forever. I have played so many versions of Street Fighter 2 (and different versions of those) it's a near impossibility to keep track. The new training mode sounds intriguing and should be helpful to newcomers of the game. But what I'm most excited about is having tournament after tournament playing this game. For me, that's what fighting games are all about.

Joe Roche - I am going to get crucified for this answer but I honestly don't care about Street Fighter IV (Editor's Note: Grr….). The only reason that I even have a modicum of interest in the game is because of the fantastic features Derek has been running every week in the 10th Hour. Of course reading those pieces also helped me realize that I just don't care about Street Fighter because as I read all of those lists I could only identify about half of what he was talking about. I think most of my apathy towards the franchise stems from Capcom taking such liberties with their fans. I could never get behind a game that I knew would be released in five different formats before it was all said and done, and that really killed the whole franchise for me. Add that into me not being a huge fighting game fan and you've got a massive release coming out this week (last week? What week is this?) that I will probably at best rent.

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Topic #6: So how are the reviews coming along? What games are occupying your free time?

Drew Robbins - I wrapped up my review for NHL Arcade and have touched it a few times since then. The online multi isn't doing it for me anymore, because it seems like everyone else knows some secret to scoring on every attempt. My defense is decent but my offense is easily one of the worst things I've ever witnessed.

After I wrapped up NHL Arcade I was becoming worried that I had ran out of things to play. Rock Band 2 is fun but I mostly use that as a multiplayer endeavor, so that game only pertains to when I have friends over. In Madden I had an incredible Super Bowl that really seemed to bring things to an end, I tried to extend my franchise but I just wasn't feeling it. With all of this in mind, I set out on a journey across the vast reaches of Southern Illinois, searching for something that could occupy my time. What I found may shock you, rock your world, and make you jealous of me.

Before I reveal the true fruits of my journey, I'll talk about one game I found along the way, WWF No Mercy. I had been playing a lot of WCW Revenge lately but, man, that game has nothing on No Mercy. The speed of movement was increased greatly, which alone made the game more exciting. After playing a bit of the story mode and a ladder match, its amazing to see how wrestling games haven't made any progress since this game came out. They are just going backwards! These ladder matches are great, tapping buttons is much more feasible than holding your arms on the briefcase for two minutes. And the story mode, while not much of a story, has branching paths instead of one straight shot to the final battle.

So, here it is, the moment you have been waiting for. Chumps and chumpettes, behold…



Holy, freaking, crap it's a Sega Dreamcast. This is the only system I've ever had any regrets about not owning, and now I can erase all of that. So far I've experienced a decent taste of the library, playing Marvel vs. Capcom 2, Power Stone 2, Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Zombie Revenge (Quite frankly, I loathe the undead), and the surprising Project Justice. It has been years since I've played Marvel vs. Capcom 2 so I was surprised to see just how amazing it remains to this day. Power Stone 2 might just be my favorite of the bunch, as it is sure to offer hours of multiplayer madness. Sonic Adventure is still good, not sure why everyone turned their backs on this game. Crazy Taxi is…well, its Crazy Taxi, you probably already know how awesome it is. The last two games were a little surprising to me, Zombie Revenge is a blast multiplayer and Project Justice has a very interesting style that helps push along the decent fighting mechanics.

If you've got any Dreamcast recommendations (less obvious, yes, I know Shenmue is a must have, don't tell me what I know), please send them my way!

Trace Aber - I'm still waiting for Street Fighter IV and House of the Dead: Overkill to come in, so I don't have much progress on the reviews. Since I have the free time though, I've been replaying Skies of Arcadia for the Sega Dreamcast. I feel like it's a vastly under rated game that should have received way more recognition. NHL 3-on-3 Arcade has been taking a lot of my time lately as well. I've had some really close games and the game is just pure fun – especially with a group of friends. Left 4 Dead is nearly out of my playing cycle, at least until the (shockingly) free DLC comes out. Then it will be taking just about all of my time. What can I say – I love killing zombies.

Joe Roche - By the time this column goes live my review of The Last Remnant will be complete. This is by far the longest I've spent on a game to review as I would guess I put in about 80+ hours to complete the game. The worst part about that is I missed about half the side quests because after three weeks of playing the game I realized I wasn't even close to being done so I just dropped the side quests and went ahead with the main story. As of now my review slate is clear until Star Ocean 4 shows up so I'm spending some time working on my Bargain Bin Classics section of The Full Circle by playing a handful of games I picked up for under $20 total. I'm also trying to clean up some of my backlog which includes Prince of Persia, Smackdown vs Raw 2009 and Fallout 3. On top of all that I'm working through some of the demos on Xbox Live, including H.A.W.X. which was much better then I anticipated, and Halo Wars which I am completely apathetic towards. It's just nice to have some time to dedicate to games that aren't review games for this site right now to recharge my battery after the lengthy time I spent with TLR.

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Until Next Time…

And thus concludes another exciting week of Three Player Co-Op action! Make sure to give your opinions on this week's topics in the comments section, or even submit a reader question to be answered next week.