Three Player Co-Op 03.04.09: Halo Wars (360), Punch-Out! (Wii), More

Posted by Drew Robbins on 03.04.2009

With special guests this week of Mark Salmela and James McGee, Three Player Co-Op looks ahead at 2009 for the PSP, the release of a new game in the Halo franchise, and the return of the most beloved boxing franchise of all time. All that and more in this week's edition of Three Player Co-Op!



Chumps and chumpettes, welcome back to the internationally celebrated column known as Three Player Co-Op. In a week so jam-packed with nothingness I was able to squeeze out five questions to appease my rabid fan-base. Yes, they do exist. No, I'm not just imagining them; my shrink says I'm perfectly fine.

Player One – Drew Robbins - As a member of the Ravishing Robbins tag-team, it is only natural that I am great at everything. One such thing is writing, a hobby that I partake in often for the benefit of you. Yeah, you! The guy who reads the column I spent hours preparing over a hot keyboard, but decides not to comment. Don't think I don't know who you are!

Player Two – Mark Salmela - Every great superhero has a villain. Superman has Lex Luthor, Batman has the Joker, and I have Mark Salmela. Our clashes are intense, shaking 411 to its very core. Legend has it that edition of Fact or Fiction featuring both of the Ravishing Robbins and Mark Salmela broke the hosting site of 411, forcing Ashish to quickly move all of the code to a different server. Now, this is only a rumor, but now I'll move onto facts. Mark also does reviews for the site, and more recently got his ass handed to him, by me of course, in What If?.

Player Three – James McGee - McGee makes contributions to the news section of 411 games, informing us of the world changing events that go on every day. I mean, seriously, can you believe that the PSP is actually going to be getting games? Crazy!

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Three Player Co-Op – Week 5

Topic #1: Nintendo recently unleashed an enormous list of upcoming games for the Wii and DS. That isn't the best part though; one listed game was the imminently awesome Punch-Out. The release date is listed for May 18th, are you marking this day on your calendar?

Drew Robbins - For the most part, when I'm not playing Rock Band or Smash Bros, my Wii just sits in the corner of my room and rots away. With my lack of playing it, I've even considered removing it from its throne I have placed it on in favor of the Nintendo 64, which I have recently rekindled my love for.

But Nintendo wants to fix this problem, and releasing Punch Out is definitely the best way to get me waggling the remotes once more. I can't help but get that horrible thought in the back of my head that it could end up sucking, but deep down I still have faith that Nintendo does care about its core consumers from the olden days. If this game were to suck, it might be the straw that broke the camel's back as far as my endorsement of Nintendo.

Mark Salmela - No. This is actually a very hard question to answer, as I loved the original Punch-Out. But the problem is that I do not love the sequel Super Punch-Out nor do I love the waggle controls on the Wiimote. Sure Punch-Out could dodge the Wiimote controls and use the old-school style controls of the d-pad, but I would be surprised if there wasn't any motion controls at all in the new Punch-Out. I will play the new Punch-Out for sure, if only for the fact that April through June appears to be a down time for the video game industry, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that it will be awesome or worth preordering.

James McGee - Even though I have yet to jump on the Wii bandwagon, I will be very interested to see how the Wii Punch-Out plays out. Its one of Nintendo's greatest, under-exploited franchises, and something fans have been clamoring for since Wii Boxing teased us with what could be. At this point, it doesn't look like the newest iteration will be much more than a re-hash of what has come before, with some wiggle controls added. Now, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, seeing as what came before was friggin' Punch-Out! The gameplay on the old-timers is still rock-solid after all these years, proving that things don't have to be flashy and modern to be fun and challenging. Still, all we've seen so far are old characters like Glass Joe and King Hippo. Familiar faces are great, but will there be new characters and oh-so-subtle refinements in gameplay, like we saw with Super Punch Out on the SNES? Is this new offering just a glorified "Wii-make?" Time will tell.

But perhaps the most important question is whether Punch-Out will herald a renewed devotion to loyal fans sick of all the casual crap and ports. Is this Nintendo's way of recommitting to our relationship, or is Punch-Out just that last, awkward session of "goodbye sex" before the final break-up? Then again, will fans even care, as long as they're getting something? (By the way, I'm talking about the game and not the coitus in that last sentence.)

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Topic #2: Remember when the PSP used to get new and exciting games? Well those good times are looking to be resurrected this year, with Little Big Planet, Motorstorm, Rock Band, Assassin's Creed, and the original Persona making their way to Sony's portable this year. Does this news have you charging up your PSP in excitement?

Drew Robbins - I will charge up my PSP, but not in excitement. More in reluctant fashion, as this is one of those moments where I have to admit that I was wrong. You see, back when I wrote Coming Attractions it became a running joke that the PSP could never possibly win my award for best game of the week. And as long as I wrote it, no such thing happened. It had become my belief that the PSP would never recover, and that it was practically dead, with only Patapon 2 and Loco Roco 2 left to attempt and salvage the machine.

So here it is; I was wrong. From Nintendo's line up for the DS few games jumped out to me, but the PSP has really got an excellent line up for this year. Little Big Planet, Assassin's Creed, Motorstorm, Rock Band, Persona, Star Ocean 2, Loco Roco 2, and Patapon 2. Now, of course, Star Ocean and Loco Roco are already out, but the rest of this is still on its way, all scheduled for this year. Now while Rock Band may not interest me, you can bet that I'll be getting in on some of that portable Little Big Planet.

Mark Salmela - Nope. Despite being known around the site as a Sony guy and owning a PSP, I do not play games on the PSP. In the past few years I've soured upon handheld gaming, and have pretty much become a console snob. I love Little Big Planet and Motorstorm, but I do not love them enough to dust off my PSP and break my neck trying to see on the PSP screen *I own the first generation launch PSP so I can't hook it up to a TV*. The only thing I use my PSP for now days is an mp3 player *suck it overpriced iPod*, and while I would love to play an Arctic style Motorstorm game on my PS3 *I may pick up the PS2 port*, I have no intentions of buying anymore PSP games. I would rather Sony kill off the PSP line and move all the PSP developers over to making PS3 games *although the PSP sells way too much for that to happen I can dream can't I?*.

James McGee - I finally adopted the PSP a couple of Christmases ago…only to see the game offerings dry up mere months later. So, to say I'm excited to see publishers put some effort into Sony's portable at this point is an understatement. I'm also encouraged to see that these are slated to be totally original games (with the exception of Persona's enhanced remake, but I'm even pumped about that). Much like the Wii, the PSP has suffered its fair share of crappy ports, so anytime a developer puts the effort into designing a game specifically for the hardware is a welcome treat. The PSP is an amazing piece of hardware, really, and I hope this new batch of games is enough to keep it going for a while longer (assuming the game drought hasn't already killed it).

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Topic #3: By the time this column is up, Halo Wars will be available to the masses, eagerly awaiting their chance to return to the generic world of Halo and kick some generic covenant ass. Two-part question, will you buy it (regardless of console ownership), and what do you think sales will look like for this new take on the franchise.

Drew Robbins - Though I constantly tease the Halo franchise, I did garner some enjoyment out of the third installment and even the PC edition of the original game. It may be generic but, hey, sometimes all a man needs is a crap load of ammo and hordes of covenant to satisfy his craving for fun. That being said, under no circumstance would I find myself purchasing Halo Wars, and this is for many reasons. First and foremost, I am terrible at RTS games. Generally speaking I suck at almost all video games, but in RTS games my suckitude isn't even charming. It is actually painful to watch. The other reason for this is that, well, I already own Starcraft. Starcraft may be ancient but it seems to have more polished gameplay, and a still jam-packed online mode. Why would I spend $60 just to play an RTS when I already own an RTS that is ages better?

As far as sales go, I expect Halo Wars to put up huge numbers. It might catch the interest of Halo detractors with its new take on the franchise, and people who are fans of the franchise have probably already decided that if the name "Halo" is in it, that they will indeed have to buy it.

Mark Salmela - No, I will not be buying Halo Wars. I do think that Halo Wars is a good game judging from the little of it that I've played but I simply do not have the money right now for Halo Wars. In the past month we've had Fear 2, Street Fighter 4, and Killzone 2 come out which I consider to be better games than Halo Wars and more worth my money. I do think that Halo Wars will sell pretty well, with my guess being around 500,000 copies in its first two months, but I don't think it'll come close to reaching the sales of any of the other Halo games. I just don't think the general audience will attach to an RTS the same way that they do an FPS and the fact that it's missing the Bungie logo should help keep away some potential casual buyers. I may pick up Halo Wars in the future for a bargain price, but right now I'm too preoccupied whooping ass in Street Fighter 4 and Killzone 2.

James McGee - I'm a fan of Halo (though I tend to disagree with the masses by thinking the quality has steadily declined from the first game. That's a rant for another time, though.), so chances are good that I'll give this new take on the series a try (I'm actually downloading the demo for a test drive as I type this). The original game began life as an RTS, so seeing it come full circle is pretty interesting. But regardless of the game's quality, I think its true importance will be as a trend-setter. Just like the first Halo refined first-person-shooter controls for consoles, Halo Wars promises to do the same for real-time strategy.
Porting RTS games to consoles is becoming more and more common, but control is still an issue. EA has done an admirable job with titles like Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth and Command and Conquer, but even these games face the problem of squeezing a complex keyboard/mouse control scheme onto a few buttons. Ensemble Studios designed the game from the ground up to be played with an Xbox 360 controller, and early reports all say they've done an outstanding job. Some will say that "dumbing-down" the controls like this is an insult to the genre (similar complaints were leveled at the first Halo by PC diehards), but making a game more accessible isn't always a bad thing. With the control issue solved, other developers are vey likely to take Ensemble's lead by creating deep, full-featured RTS titles for consoles. No one even bats an eye anymore when an FPS shows up on consoles. The same could be true for strategy games in a few years.

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Topic #4: Michael Jackson has Pac-Man Fever…meaning he is sick of seeing the game and wants to throw it out of the house. And no, we aren't talking the NES cartridge, we are talking the arcade cabinet. But that isn't all. Jacko also tires of his Simpsons Arcade machine, his Super Street Fighter II machine, and even his NBA Hangtime machine. Thoughts? Drooling does not count as a thought.

Drew Robbins - I've never been hit with a greater urge to break my bank account then when I laid my eyes upon this wondrous collection of treasures. At first, when only glancing past the article, I thought he was selling his own arcade game, Michael Jackson's Moonwalker. While still awesome, though a different kind of awesome altogether, that game has nothing on this collection's finest pieces.

My favorite is definitely the Simpsons Arcade machine, lord knows how many quarters I drained into that game trying to take down Mr. Burns. The Mortal Kombat machine also intrigues me, as that is a series I felt strived in arcades and was brought down in the process of porting it to consoles.

Oh, and for those still clinging to Harmonix being thieves, he has Guitar Freaks. See, something for everyone!

Mark Salmela - Where do I sign up for this auction? I'd love to go to Neverland Ranch to bid on awesome arcade machines at such a historical site. Hell he has a Crazy Taxi arcade machine and a Simpsons arcade machine. How could you not want to go? Plus it's his house, so that means he could be there. I'd love to meet Michael Jackson and have him autograph my copy of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker on the Genesis…. Wait a minute! Doesn't he have an arcade machine of Moonwalker?! Is he selling that off?! Why are we talking about stupid auctions when we could talk about the King of Pop selling an arcade machine based off him?! I want Michael Jackson's copy of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker. And I don't want them to clean it before giving it to me either. What? Too far?

James McGee - Speaking from personal experience, a sure sign that you've fallen on hard times (if you will) is when you start selling off the video game collection. It hurts, let me tell ya. As for the collection itself, it's a total gold mine of nostalgia. I'm going to play the Indiana Jones card and say they belong in a museum, because those things are truly a part of history. The old-school Ms. Pac-Man/Galaga tabletop combo is particularly awe-inspiring. Plus the whole lot seems to be in pristine condition. If you wanted to put together some kind of digital museum (assuming such a thing doesn't already exist), you be hard-pressed to find a better starting point. Now, where did I put my checkbook…

Click here to see what all of the fuss is about.

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Topic #5: Guinness recently put together a list of the top 50 greatest games of all time, based on both impact and gameplay. And surprisingly enough, they didn't take the cookie-cutter route of Super Mario Bros. No, in fact, they took a Mario spin-off. Super Mario Kart was voted the greatest game of all time. Was this the right choice?

Drew Robbins - Starting with the #1 choice, I am fine with it. There are better choices but, there are certainly much worse games to declare the greatest of all time. It has had a lasting impact, selling like hot cakes on each and every Nintendo system. Heck, the Wii version outsold Super Smash Bros. Brawl, a game that people were hyping for ages.

Now to move down the list and rip it a new one. My first problem is the original Grand Theft Auto, which is a pretty lousy game overall, and only claim to fame is kicking off a series that hits its stride with the third edition. Grand Theft Auto III should be getting this spot, no questions about it.

Halo is way too high, it didn't bring anything new to the table, and isn't even that great of a shooter. To those who are undoubtedly say "LAN Parties," I say to you that those did exist before the Xbox, and with better shooters. Also, saying that it brought the FPS experience to consoles is a dirty lie, Goldeneye has that honor, and anyone who takes that away from Goldeneye deserves a roundhouse kick in the groin.

I'll break down the rest in quicker fashion. Tomb Raider is rubbish, Super Mario Bros. is far too low, Final Fantasy XII has no business being on this list, The Orange Box is a compilation and should not be counted as one game, Portal should be in that spot instead. Wii Sports isn't good enough to warrant a spot, Project Gotham Racing 4 is extremely questionable, Advance Wars is a silly choice. Morrowind should be on the list over Oblivion, and last of all. What is Ridge Racer doing on the list. I know it is Riiiiiiiidge Racer, but still, I can think of much better racing games that deserved a spot on this list. Namely, F-Zero X. That game is godly.

Mark Salmela - First of all this was a terrible list. I mean where the hell was Target Terror?! You're telling me automatic RPG missile launchers don't qualify for awesome gameplay and isn't one of the most influential things of our generation? Sure GTA may have had you fighting hookers, but Target Terror did it right. But besides that, what was influential about the first Grand Theft Auto? GTA1 sucked and wasn't fun or original at all, so what qualifies it to be the 3rd most influential game of all time? Hell, the only GTA that was influential period was GTA3, so why is San Andreas on there and above the original Super Mario Bros? Most of the games on the list aren't really innovative either, as much as they are improvements on the genre. For example Sonic the Hedgehog 2 added the spin-dash, but other than that is was an improvement upon Sonic 1, not an innovation. I can at least see how Super Mario Kart deserves to be in the top ten, but some games on the list such as The Orange Box are just plain confusing. Are they saying Half-Life 2 is innovative and fun? Or are they saying Portal is innovative and fun? I know the list was based off games that left a lasting legacy as well as innovation, but I highly disagree with the majority of the list.

James McGee - Okay, I'm not going to mince words here: Guinness is nuts! Mario Kart is a fine game, but the most influential of all time? Doesn't the fact that it's a spin-off of the Mario franchise dictate that the original is more influential? Let's forget the number one spot for a minute and look at the list as a whole (I'm sure Drew can throw a link up somewhere in this article). Super Mario Bros. comes in at 17, while Super Mario World ranks at 4? I can almost forgive Mario's N64 outing being ranked higher, seeing as how it arguably gave birth to 3D gaming, and was a big jump forward in gameplay. But Mario World simply refined the original formula. It just doesn't make sense. Outside of Mario, there are plenty of decisions that are questionable. Many of the games on the list undeniably belong there, but by no means all of them. Did there really need to be three Grand Theft Auto games on the list, especially considering GTA III really broke the mold, and is nowhere to be seen? Final Fantasy XII above Final Fantasy VII? And, seriously, Lego Star Wars (this coming from one of the biggest LEGO supporters out there)?
Yes, Super Mario Bros. is the easy-out for a list like this. But it's the same principle as listing Citizen Kane on a "best movies" list. Whether you personally think it's the greatest or not, if you look at initial impact and lasting legacy (which is what Guinness claims to have done), it just fits. I have to wonder what the real criteria behind this list was, because some of the choices and rankings are just flat out ludicrous. (Gee, I feel a little embarrassed for getting this worked up over a silly list, but seriously…LUDICROUS!)

Click here to see the list.

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Topic #6: So how are the reviews coming along? What games are attempting to wreck any semblance you had of a social life?

Drew Robbins - I'll spend a little time telling you what you already know, I'm playing Street Fighter IV still and enjoying it, despite the fact that I get an awful lot of flak for my choice in characters. Just the other day I got back into the Dreamcast spirit, as during my adventures to see the Street Fighter movie, we stopped by a friends house and got our Power Stone 2 on. Also, turns out that Project Justice really lends itself to button mashing.

Now onto the subject you all wanted to hear about, the Street Fighter movie, the worst thing since well…the last Street Fighter movie. Yes, it was awful. But I'll be darned if I didn't have more fun at that movie then I ever have before. Its atrociousness lends itself to humor in parts where no sane man should be able to find something to laugh at. I'll detail my favorite scenes MILD SPOILERS INCLUDED

1.) The human punching bag – What better way than to build up your main villain then to depict him being a general douche bag in everything he does. A scene, which seems harmless enough with Balrog training with a punching bag, turns to instant hilarity when the camera pans out to see Bison using a human for a punching bag. What a badass.

2.) Food fight – At a point in the movie which displays Balrog hunting down Chun-Li, he corners the young Chinese fighter in a marketplace. Upon finding her he puts a bullet in her arm, causing the most laughable uprising I've ever seen. The food fight begins with a creepy old lady standing up, hoisting a melon high in the air, giving Balrog a fierce some glance as she hits him directly in the head with the melon. The movie goes on to show Balrog being pelted with melons from the whole town, being chased back to his fancy limo.

3.) Every scene with Charlie – Charlie plays a prominent role in the film, and the actor Chris Kline decided to go whole hog in turning Charlie (referred to as Nash) into one of the most laughable characters in movie history. Every time I saw him on screen I knew I was about to witness something magical. I'd have to say my favorite moment was his debut in the film, where he makes a joke about several business leaders being decapitated by Vega.

Mark Salmela - What am I playing right now? Well I just finished Flower and Fear 2 so I am now playing Valkyria Chronicles, Street Fighter 4 *PS3*, NBA Jam *arcade*, Mortal Kombat Trilogy *PS1*, 2 on 2 Open Ice *PS1*, and Killzone 2. But as for a social life? Well I'm not worried about that, as much as I am my Hollywood career. I'm still trying to get my life back together as a dance choreographer. First the Spice Girls fell apart and that gig died, and now no one will hire me after my failed stint as lead dance choreographer for Disaster Movie. By the way, if anyone is looking for a dance choreographer with talent I can be reached at [e-mail]. I put up with the Spice Girls for 4 years, so I can put up with any hot-headed 2 bit.

YOU RUINED MY CAREER DISASTER MOVIE!!!

James McGee - Right now, I'm kind of biding my time until the release of Resistance: Retribution (which I'll be reviewing for the site) and Resident Evil 5 (which I think has already been spoken for by one of my 411 colleagues but, if not, I'm right here, Ramon!). In the meantime, I've been catching up on some older games I missed. Prey is currently occupying the disc tray in my 360, and it isn't half bad. The shooting is pretty generic, but there are some very cool gravity-based puzzles and inventive use of the "spirit walk" out-of-body experience. The atmosphere and design are also top-notch. For those who don't know, players spend their time trying to escape an alien spacecraft that is a mixture of organic elements and technology (likely inspired by similar designs from the Alien films). It isn't uncommon to step through a typically sterile, sliding metal door, only to be…well, crapped on from a distinctly anus-shaped opening over your head. And it truly seems like the ship is "giving birth" to certain enemies, as they pop through openings that resemble…well, that's as far as I'm comfortable with going on that topic. Anyway, a very decent game, and well worth the used price.

On the portable front, I'm trying desperately to wrap my head around Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions. So far, results have been mixed. It is certainly a departure from the traditional FF RPG experience. Not a bad one, necessarily, but one that I'm coming to realize might be over my head. The learning curve is steep all around, and the Job system takes some serious getting use to. The game was a gift from a friend who swears by the Playstation original, so I'm going to try to preserver and get a handle on this thing. I just hope he hasn't over-estimated my gaming abilities. Maybe Pong would have been more in keeping with my limits.

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Until Next Time…

And thus concludes another exciting week of Three Player Co-Op action! Make sure to give your opinions on this week's topics in the comments section, or even submit a reader question to be answered next week.